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This topic has moved here: Subject: Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.
  • Subject: Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Subject: Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.
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Posted by: Recon Number 54
and prevent the legitimate "I have been mistakenly banned" and the whaaaaambulance posts completely?

I don't think that would be right. While I do have a lot of faith in the MM auto-detection systems, I do think that someone who is a victim of an honest mistake should have some ability to request assistance, and I also think that those who were rightfully banned deserve to show the rest of the world their "here's why I wuz cheatin" explanations.
Easily solved with a message-dump account. You can still PM when banned, can't you?

  • 10.23.2007 8:57 PM PDT

Posted by: X Rampancy X
JESUS CHRIST I'M COVERED IN BEES
Theme song tiem.
Pezz = win.
Lazer kitty says: PEW PEW PEW!

Posted by: Achilles1108
As for MM it is my understanding that we are not paying for it. We pay for XBL. That is how Bungie can ban people from it without XBL's permission. Now if Achronos wishes to state otherwise I welcome him to do so.

Oh and I am only talking about a MM ban. Not a XBL ban.


There is the distinction. Yes, bungie could definately prevent someone who has violated the terms of usage from accessing matchmaking. So long as they're still allowed to play custom games or co-op w/their buddies over XBL.

  • 10.23.2007 9:00 PM PDT
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GT: AccidentsProne

"A wise man once told me don't argue with fools, cause people from a distance can't tell who is who"

This idea would solve the Pillage problem. : )

  • 10.23.2007 9:00 PM PDT

Posted by: X Rampancy X
JESUS CHRIST I'M COVERED IN BEES
Theme song tiem.
Pezz = win.
Lazer kitty says: PEW PEW PEW!

Posted by: Accidentus
This idea would solve the Pillage problem. : )


Pillage doesn't link his gamertag to his profile, and he tends to spam the Flood more than the other forums. And from Achilles' proposal, only certain forums such as optimatch and the fileshare forum would require a linked gamertag.

  • 10.23.2007 9:03 PM PDT

Posted by: WolfmanMaverick
You people have just sent my sides into orbit. A bunch of MLG try hards sucking the dick of some supposed pro half the thread hasn't even heard of. Classic.

Posted by: Duardo
I dunno. Can every moderator be trusted with this kind of 'power?' It remains to be seen. I do like the idea of separated forums though, especially if you have your GT linked or not. But is another forum really necessary? I don't really think so. Sure, you have very good points as to why there could be more forums, but sometimes things on paper look good, but in reality, are terrible. I can see many people becoming angry not being able to get into certain forums, and posting countless amounts of spam. I can see people posting multiplayer things in the 'Capaign Forum' because they couldn't get into the 'Multiplayer Forum.' I can see it becoming the current Halo 3 Forum, just with a multiplayer side to it (like the Optimatch Forum).

I have many concerns over this. If I somehow discredited you Achilles, I apologize. My intention was just to post my own thoughts.

Discredit? Bah. This is exactly what I want. Tear this idea down and rebuild it. This is what this community is here for.

Well they would be told that they will need a linked GT to access said forums. Their threads would be locked. Basically the idea behind it is to make people show that they are willing to stand up and show that they have been playing the games and that they do indeed have valuable feedback. I am not saying the other people do not, but it is a great way to keep out the people who just wish to go in there and say they are a 45 and to tell people they suck. Hence Recon's line about walking the walk.

  • 10.23.2007 9:04 PM PDT
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Posted by: evilcam
Gz, I'd kill the whole world for you




3-19-07

Posted by: dalmedya
Actually, I don't think they can do that...

I'm rusty on the law, but, I still hold that I think they can.

... Can that be done?

Yes, it was done in Halo 2 with some things. (Not Bungie.net Related.)

  • 10.23.2007 9:08 PM PDT

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

Too much power for anyone to wield (exepct bungie they can have all the power they want)

  • 10.23.2007 9:09 PM PDT

Posted by: WolfmanMaverick
You people have just sent my sides into orbit. A bunch of MLG try hards sucking the dick of some supposed pro half the thread hasn't even heard of. Classic.

So far so good. Keep those ideas coming. Who knows. Maybe we can hammer out an actual working model?

  • 10.23.2007 9:21 PM PDT
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Mourne not your comrades who must dwell / too strong to strive -
Within each steel-bound coffin of a cell, / Buried alive;
But rather mourne the apathetic throng / The cowed, and the meek -
Who see the world’s great anguish and its wrong / And dare not speak.

[group]167741|Diner|Where's the food?[/group]

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Someone with a "this is not my real playing account, but I think that your should bring back __________" simply needs to pay the price of admission (IMO). It's neither hard, nor costly, nor impossible for a member to link their account to a gamertag. But just like voting in elections, proof of residency (age, citizenship, and so on) is required.


Hard? No. Costly? Nope. Impossible? ....sometimes.

And that's where I might have a problem with the idea. There are numerous members who have been forced into a situation where the account that they use on the forums is not the same that they have attached their gamertag to. This is due largely to Microsoft's policy of not allowing a gamertag to be unlinked. Any member who had to switch gamertags at some point is barred from replacing their old linked account with the new, active one. This wouldn't be as much of a problem if silver accounts were allowed to post, but then it would be impossible to ban such an account from matchmaking, and therefore would negate half of this solution.

  • 10.23.2007 9:23 PM PDT

Posted by: X Rampancy X
JESUS CHRIST I'M COVERED IN BEES
Theme song tiem.
Pezz = win.
Lazer kitty says: PEW PEW PEW!

Posted by: Achilles1108
So far so good. Keep those ideas coming. Who knows. Maybe we can hammer out an actual working model?


So, what we have thus far is that only those with XBL gold accounts can access the optimatch and fileshare forums. And people who get banned for violating the terms of usage on the forums, who have their gamertags linked, will also be banned from Halo 3 matchmaking. That sounds reasonable so far. I'd be interested in hearing what Achronos thinks about all this, because in the end, its all up to him.

  • 10.23.2007 9:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: aku
...There are numerous members who have been forced into a situation where the account that they use on the forums is not the same that they have attached their gamertag to...


This is about the only problem i can see with what is otherwise an absolutely fabulous idea. If you want to -blam!- talk on the forums - go ahead, but you'll quickly see your privelege to -blam!- talk ingame gone :D.

It's not that dissimilar to the rest of the gaming community. Take CS, for example. If you go to a server's forums and start calling the admins a bunch of whorebags and the like, they'll just ban you and be done with it. I don't see why it should be any different here. I would trust all of our current moderators with that power, because i'm just that kind of guy. However, i would add one thing, that not ALL bans be automatic MM bans. For example, if someone is given a 3-day time out for getting a bit too heated in the flood, that shouldn't affect their gameplay.

The biggest drawbacks I have come across so far is that it would make the Mods seem like Gods.

Something we've actually talked about earlier. My idea was to turn off your shiny text, and only have it appear when you're actually moderating, and not have it forcibly attached to all of your posts. Most of which are thankfully light hearted.


ed: Huzzah, a 6am thought!!

Instead of matchmaking bans, which are likely to extreme for moderators to be given access to, instead have the same linked GT requirement, and ban them from accessing any of their stats. Could be like Achilles' Ebil Plan Lite, or something. (sleeptimenao)

[Edited on 10.23.2007 9:51 PM PDT]

  • 10.23.2007 9:38 PM PDT
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Here's what I've got, in order of how strongly I think it should/can happen:
Ban on XBL = Ban on B.net.
Permaban from B.net = BANNED FROM BUNGIE tag on XBL profile.
No gamertag = no access to Optimatch, Halo 3 Multiplayer (when it comes) forums.
Temp ban on B.net = team-only voice chat on Halo 3. (If doable)

  • 10.23.2007 9:51 PM PDT

Seems awfully harsh to a good member that just simply made a mistake.

  • 10.23.2007 10:04 PM PDT
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And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

Achilles has gone rampant!
Haha, just kidding. I like your idea Achilles. (At least I think I do, didn't have time to read through it all.)
I'm gonne edit this post and write a longer reply once I get home.

[Edited on 10.23.2007 10:14 PM PDT]

  • 10.23.2007 10:06 PM PDT
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Posted by: Primum Agmen
A tosser is the same as a wanker. To toss oneself off is to fondle the trouser weasel.


Achronos

Joe Staten

This proposal alone would fix a lot of problems, the only wrong thing is not everyone likes linking their gamertags and not everyone knows how to link one.

Posted by: Achilles1108
My proposal would be to make the Halo 3, Halo 2, Optimatch, and Files Forums be only accessible to people with linked GT’s (possibly just Gold). I chose those forums because of their connection to the online play aspect. Now this will help with the controversial part of my idea. Make it to where when a member with a GT linked gets blacklisted they not only lose the privies to the forums, but also to MM itself.

  • 10.23.2007 10:34 PM PDT

Be my fan!

facebook.com/TheFeistyGoat

This would be a great idea. Although it would oust some of the good people still on these forums that may not have live. There is probably a few people in this situation. Maybe it would tempt them into getting live all that much more. I do think something needs to be done though. There also seems to be a lot more "trolls" now than there used to be, and I've been coming to bungie.net since sometime in '02. You should defiantly get a MM ban if you get black-listed here, it makes a lot of sense, and I'm all for it. You just can't close off forums to people with-out linked tags. It would do more harm than good,(IMO)

I have also noticed that the general people I've been playing with in MM have been slowly getting ruder. The first few weeks of H3 gaming it was very common to hear a "good game" or something of the like. Now its seems every game is being filled with petty trash talking, even against team-mates.

Perhaps a good solution would be to get more moderators on Bnet, maybe even MM mods, that would be able to "police" games and try to give warnings, even temp. bans to really bad trash-talkers. Even though Microsoft should do this, I highly doubt they would, Bungie could try, seeing that they are the biggest title. The Rep. system and feedback just isn't enough.

Sorry If I rambled a bit there, its late, and I'm concerned(as are a lot of others that I've seen) about the shape things are in right now.

Long live Bungie! :)

  • 10.24.2007 12:44 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

I like the idea of banning on Bungie.net coinciding with banning from Halo 3 Matchmaking, but as another member stated earlier, there is no equal punishment for members without associated gamertags. I'd imagine the result to be a very nice and clean experience in any forum that required a gamertag, but a chaotic and reckless experience and a wave of second accounts doing whatever they want in any forum that does not require a gamertag. Of course, maintaining two accounts is a hassle and the result of the process would be arguably better than the situation now.
But I would instead suggest the restriction of (anyone) viewing or using that player's file share or service record for the duration of the blacklist (individual games obviously cannot be restricted)

I'm completely for bans in Halo 3 translating to Bungie.net account bans.

I'm completely for forum restrictions on those without linked accounts. It'll encourage people to link gamertags. However, on the front of the Halo 3 Forum, I think that there would be some confusion by splitting into Campaign and Multiplayer, and restricting the Multiplayer Forum to only those with XBL accounts. This is because people can play Campaign on XBOX Live and Multiplayer locally or via System Link. In addition, as aku stated, some people are in situations where their account cannot be linked to their profile here (which leads me to believe that in order to implement Live-only features, we'd have to allow members to submit requests to unlink their gamertag from an old, disabled, or blacklisted account, which would require a policy change by Microsoft).

Now, when it comes to the idea od only letting members with linked accounts view Service Records, I strongly disagree. The integration features here are some of the biggest draws to the site. If a new member came here (or a guest without an account who was playing Socials) looking for the stats and found that they could not access them, they would be out of luck. You have to keep appeal to visitors in mind, and that you have to make everyone happy to at least some extent. Which is also why I'd suggest restricting certain forums, but only on the level of posting threads and replies. I still think that guests and members without linked gamertags should be able to look through those forums.

But in general, I like these ideas.

[Edited on 10.24.2007 1:53 AM PDT]

  • 10.24.2007 1:39 AM PDT
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Location: Outlaws' Summit.

Posted by: Duardo
I dunno. Can every moderator be trusted with this kind of 'power?' It remains to be seen. I do like the idea of separated forums though, especially if you have your GT linked or not. But is another forum really necessary? I don't really think so. Sure, you have very good points as to why there could be more forums, but sometimes things on paper look good, but in reality, are terrible. I can see many people becoming angry not being able to get into certain forums, and posting countless amounts of spam. I can see people posting multiplayer things in the 'Capaign Forum' because they couldn't get into the 'Multiplayer Forum.' I can see it becoming the current Halo 3 Forum, just with a multiplayer side to it (like the Optimatch Forum).

I have many concerns over this. If I somehow discredited you Achilles, I apologize. My intention was just to post my own thoughts.


Duardo sums up my feelings on this. It's a great idea in theory but I think there's something that needs refining. Seems like a hit or miss.............

  • 10.24.2007 3:09 AM PDT
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This is a tuff one. I really do not like this idea. I notice that a lot of the members posting in the file share forums do not know the rules. This is because their first few posts are in the file share forum. The flaw of the file share forum is that where you go to start a topic is in your picture. Therefore, these new members are starting topics without visually seeing the rules. That is one reason I am seeing so much contreversey in the file share forum. If this idea went into affect, these people will get banned from matchmaking and not know why. What is it supposed to say when they are banned from matchmaking "You have been suspended from matchmaking due to bumping on the bungie.net community films forum." Half of these people have no clue as to what the word bumping even means. Therefore, many people would be banned from matchmaking without knowing what they did.

As to Achilles side, it would keep these people off the forums. However, the forums should be a place for everyone. I almost see this idea as making the forum private and kicking out new members of the community. Excluding the everyday forum -blam!-s, I expect that a majority of people being banned from this idea to be new and innocent members. Thus, by this idea you will stop most of the forum -blam!-s. However, most of the members that come on here will suffer.

As to the blacklisting itself, I was just asking for a more strict policy. If this were to ever happen, moderators would have to be less strict. I could see MANY people staying away from the forums for this kind of idea. I myself would be more cautious at certain posts. Some topics I see now a days I may have just strayed away from. I do not know how the future will play out with an idea like this. But one thing is for certain, I could see this idea hurting a lot of innocent community members that are just coming on here to post their file share items and talk about Halo 3.

[Edited on 10.24.2007 3:14 AM PDT]

  • 10.24.2007 3:14 AM PDT

You say tomato; I say potato.

Posted by: Achilles1108
Make it to where when a member with a GT linked gets blacklisted they not only lose the privies to the forums, but also to MM itself.
That has got to be one of the silliest ideas I've ever heard. The mods of an internet forum should not have the ability to ban people on Xbox Live.

  • 10.24.2007 5:11 AM PDT
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Bungie listens to its fans! ^.^ | Ninja .II./ You
RCG: In ur base, steelin' ur flagz. | Watch the demo, then join the carnage!

Oh God, absolutely not, ever.

For everyone's sake.

For the guy wrongly banned; for the guy banned because he posted an all-caps title when a mod was on a crackdown. For these people, a few days off from the forums may work - but to ban them from Live, which they pay for, when they have done nothing wrong on there, is quite obviously ridiculous.

And for us; Spammers and so on banned from forums = hoorah, but ban them from Live and I'm guessing more than 90% will create another account specifically to spam and complain about the ban.

Add to all that that it just makes it a really bad idea to have a linked GT, because doing so means that if you are ever banned MM goes too, and you'll see a whole lot of users just stop posting (the good ones) and a load more posting only on alternate, non-linked accounts.

This idea is insanity, even though I'm very strongly in favour of harsher punishments by mods. Just keep it to a punishment that fits the crime, please.

Now linked GTs only allowed in Optimatch I could see working, but not in the Halo 3/2 forums and so on. Those are used to discuss Campaign and so forth that don't require a linked or Gold account, and many fans without Live enjoy playing the Campaign and discussing the story. And it may come as a surprise, but some people without Live also have views on multiplayer - they may still play LAN, or 4 player on one box.

[Edited on 10.24.2007 5:23 AM PDT]

  • 10.24.2007 5:20 AM PDT

I don't think so either guys.

The good idea part is wanting all forum members have linked tags to decrease the random spam from extra accounts, new and what not.

  • 10.24.2007 5:51 AM PDT