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This topic has moved here: Subject: Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.
  • Subject: Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Subject: Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Posted by: WolfmanMaverick
You people have just sent my sides into orbit. A bunch of MLG try hards sucking the dick of some supposed pro half the thread hasn't even heard of. Classic.

Posted by: Saint
Add to all that that it just makes it a really bad idea to have a linked GT, because doing so means that if you are ever banned MM goes too, and you'll see a whole lot of users just stop posting (the good ones) and a load more posting only on alternate, non-linked accounts.

This idea is insanity, even though I'm very strongly in favour of harsher punishments by mods. Just keep it to a punishment that fits the crime, please.

Now linked GTs only allowed in Optimatch I could see working, but not in the Halo 3/2 forums and so on. Those are used to discuss Campaign and so forth that don't require a linked or Gold account, and many fans without Live enjoy playing the Campaign and discussing the story. And it may come as a surprise, but some people without Live also have views on multiplayer - they may still play LAN, or 4 player on one box.

See that was one of the major pitfalls I thought of. Basically it would scare even some of the good people away. Trying to even discuss topics like this would be impossible for fear of getting in trouble. Stifling the community is not what I had in mind with the plan. More to just rid of us of garbage on both ends. I also forgot about the people who play LAN seeing how I have not played one in many years. I am so used to online play now I forgot that people would still have valid points or discussion revolving around the multiplayer aspect. Hah who knew Achilles would have forgot something. (quiet Zag)

Oh well. I was just throwing this out there to see what people would think about it. Looks like I have a good idea now. Seems to me that many of us agree at least on making Optimatch require linked GT's. Nice to see you guys and gals brought up some good counter points. If you all still have need to discuss this or still have some points feel free. I will try to answer any questions you might have for me.

  • 10.24.2007 7:09 AM PDT

I am a Floodian

I think your own problems with your original idea show that it wouldn't work. Microsoft would freak out, and mods would undoubtedly be impossible to find.

  • 10.24.2007 7:18 AM PDT
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All the ideas seem good, expecially limiting some forums to members only with a GT account would really help clean up a bunch of clutter that mainly goes on in the Halo 3 Forums. Though like stated before, it becomes unfair to others without a gold account or XBL

Maybe just make a seperate forum section for people with GT accounts only, and leave the other ones open to the ones without?

[Edited on 10.24.2007 7:49 AM PDT]

  • 10.24.2007 7:47 AM PDT

Finishing the fight since 1988!

The Column Underground: Made of Win

I like the idea about the red flag on the service record bar on XBL when someone hits a serious ban or has done something brutal. But actually banning them from MM i think is going too far.

Ont he topic of disallowing anyone but linked GTs onto the files forums, I'm not sure that would help that much, because disallowing silver accounts means that uploading something to those forums that you would like to share is dissallowed, which is not (i believe) what bungie was going for with the user created content. I like the idea about bumping based on downloads instead of posts, and/or a sticky with a list of those files downloaded equal to or more often than x number of times so people can tell what are the most played games/most viewed screenshots/most downloaded forge maps.

Also, from what I've been hearing from mods and other members of the community is that Achronos is having trouble trusting people. Adding power to mods like the OP suggested is grounds to require even more trust. The only way i could see that as workable trust wise is is only the "Master Ninjas" got the power.

Just my 2 bits.

[Edited on 10.24.2007 8:19 AM PDT]

  • 10.24.2007 8:17 AM PDT

While I like your ferver Achilles, I'm not sure a cross-blacklist/ban would work since Xbox live and B.net are two seperate entities with two different code of conducts.

The root of the problem as I see it is this.............Alt. accounts. Period.

The reason most repeat offenders don't think twice about typing things they know damn well are against the rules is because they can just log in under their alternate account and continue to post until their blacklist is over. Now I know the powers that be have mulled over this very topic probably longer than they want to admit, and I'm sure if there was something they could do about it, they would.

But in the end, if you want to curb all the evils that ail us here on B.net, come up with a way to stop people from posting on alt. accounts.

  • 10.24.2007 8:25 AM PDT
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And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

-Didn't bother to edit my last post - no one will read it then.


Anyways, after reading through your entire post, I must say that I disagree with your idea. I know that making certain forums less accessible would certainly bring down the spam in those forums, I mean, of course it would. Less people involved equals less spam, and people couldn't make several accounts. But it would also shut out a lot of members of the community. By all means, these are the community forums, so every "member" (except permabanned jerks) of the community should be allowed to participate in them, even those without access to Xbox live.

Also, making the Halo 2 & 3 forums less accessible sounds like a bad idea, cause not all of the talk in those forums is subjects regarding multiplayer.
If you made separate forums for Halo's campaign and Halo's multiplayer, then you could make the multiplayer ones less accessible by only allowing people with a linked gamertag to participate in them.

So, the restricted forums would be:
Halo 2 Multiplayer
Halo 3 Multiplayer
Optimatch
Files Forums.

But making a bunch of new forums probably takes a lot of work, and you would probably only notice a small decrease in spam anyway.
I clearly vote no.

[Edited on 10.24.2007 8:59 AM PDT]

  • 10.24.2007 8:57 AM PDT

Posted by: Flavor Flav
After reading ends post I agree with him, and would like to expand. Anytime I see a thread that goes on to any length in the halo 3 forum and optimatch, there is almost always one common thing. Someone birings up ranks as a measure of the value of their opinion. The employ the logic level 50>level 49, so level 50 opinion>level 49 opinion. We all know this is stupid and wrong, but if everyone has a linked GT, this behavior will grow further. If a player chooses to hide their GT, these same players will then accuse them of being bad for hiding it.

It simply seems as though we are going to promote a type of problem, and make it easier for rank based elitism to take place in the online forums.


Agreed, but like many people have already said, it wouldn't take long for people to just unlink their GT's, or make alt. accounts for posting and keep their real ID linked.

  • 10.24.2007 9:16 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

So what, is this a done deal or just another idea that such others as myself have posted?

Is this happening now?


Edit:

Seems like you're asking for a lot more work. But hey, it's not me to whom all of the complaint PM's are going to be sent to. How you spend your time is your own business, not mine.

[Edited on 10.24.2007 9:37 AM PDT]

  • 10.24.2007 9:32 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: squirrel dude
I think your own problems with your original idea show that it wouldn't work. Microsoft would freak out, and mods would undoubtedly be impossible to find.


Microsoft has no juristiction over what happens on this site, for the most part. They just provide the tools; it's up to Bungie Studios as to how they use them.

As far as finding moderators to carry out the rules being difficult; I doubt. While not every one of them would make the best moderators, there are those that would whole-heartedly pick up the torch and carry it.

  • 10.24.2007 9:44 AM PDT
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After reading through the post again, I have to say that creating a cross-ban system is going to be complex, a pain to do, and might no be as good as some other solutions.

So far these are the ideas that sound good so far.

*If they are banned from XBL, then an equal amount of ban time on forums (except from a unban request?. Dunno which forum it falls under)
*Creating a seperate Forum section/subsections just for members with a gold membership GT
*Only GT members are allowed to access profiles and service records. Helps to prevent people making alt. accounts when banned to look at their stuff.
*If Permabanned on B.net, have something reflect that on their GT/Ingame
*Restricting some forums to GT members only (Optimatch and Fileshare)

So far this is all sounding good, expecially with all of the constructive critizism,praise, and ideas that everyones putting in.
Hopefully these ideas will be molded into something great :D.

  • 10.24.2007 9:57 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: End
Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: squirrel dude
I think your own problems with your original idea show that it wouldn't work. Microsoft would freak out, and mods would undoubtedly be impossible to find.


Microsoft has no juristiction over what happens on this site, for the most part. They just provide the tools; it's up to Bungie Studios as to how they use them.

As far as finding moderators to carry out the rules being difficult; I doubt. While not every one of them would make the best moderators, there are those that would whole-heartedly pick up the torch and carry it.

Well if I know that I got banned from Xbox Live for "double posting" by evilcam I WILL sue.


Well if that's what he meant, than no, Bungie really can't do that much. Outside of cutting off access to uploaded files, file share, and matchmaking, they can't do anything else.

  • 10.24.2007 10:04 AM PDT
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Posted by: End
Well if I know that I got banned from Xbox Live for "double posting" by evilcam I WILL sue.

Good luck with that. If you've ever read the Terms of Use you'll realize that you can be banned from Xbox Live at any time, with or without reason.

[Edited on 10.24.2007 10:05 AM PDT]

  • 10.24.2007 10:04 AM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Posted by: Captain K Mart
Posted by: End
Well if I know that I got banned from Xbox Live for "double posting" by evilcam I WILL sue.

Good luck with that. If you've ever read the Terms of Use you'll realize that you can be banned from Xbox Live at any time, with or without reason.

Besides, you wouldnt be banned from Xbox Live. You would only be banned from matchmaking in Halo 3.

Posted by: End
evilcam and the rest of the moderators do NOT work for Microsoft and is not even a Bungie employee. I CAN sue.

The money you spend to sue could buy 100 new gamertags. On top of that, you would lose the lawsuit anyway.

[Edited on 10.24.2007 10:18 AM PDT]

  • 10.24.2007 10:16 AM PDT

Finishing the fight since 1988!

The Column Underground: Made of Win

Posted by: End
Posted by: Captain K Mart
Posted by: End
Well if I know that I got banned from Xbox Live for "double posting" by evilcam I WILL sue.

Good luck with that. If you've ever read the Terms of Use you'll realize that you can be banned from Xbox Live at any time, with or without reason.

evilcam and the rest of the moderators do NOT work for Microsoft and is not even a Bungie employee. I CAN sue.


Its in the b.net ToU as well methinks. Plus since you dont pay for matchmaking you cant sue unless youve somehow suffered emotional damage.

  • 10.24.2007 10:19 AM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Posted by: HaloHero II
Posted by: End
Posted by: Captain K Mart
Posted by: End
Well if I know that I got banned from Xbox Live for "double posting" by evilcam I WILL sue.

Good luck with that. If you've ever read the Terms of Use you'll realize that you can be banned from Xbox Live at any time, with or without reason.

evilcam and the rest of the moderators do NOT work for Microsoft and is not even a Bungie employee. I CAN sue.


Its in the b.net ToU as well methinks. Plus since you dont pay for matchmaking you cant sue unless youve somehow suffered emotional damage.

Dont encourage him.

  • 10.24.2007 10:20 AM PDT
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Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: Captain K Mart
Posted by: End
Well if I know that I got banned from Xbox Live for "double posting" by evilcam I WILL sue.

Good luck with that. If you've ever read the Terms of Use you'll realize that you can be banned from Xbox Live at any time, with or without reason.
That's true. This concept is embodied in paragraph 18 of the XBL Terms of Use. I don't know where you got the idea that moderators would not legally be able to implement a ban here that would carry over to XBL, but it is wrong, according to the laws that I know of. If you can point me to a body of law that contradicts this, then please do so. (As a side note, remember that under the XBL Terms of Use, you can only sue Microsoft in King County, Washington, so I hope you're prepared to travel from NYC over there to collect your maximum damages of one month's XBL fees, as enumerated in paragraph 17 of the Terms of Use.)

As far as the legality of this idea, it is clearly something that could be accomplished if both Microsoft and Bungie agree to implement it. I don't, however, think that Microsoft corporation would risk alienating or pissing off the people paying thousands or millions of dollars in XBox Live fees just for bad behavior on an internet forum -- look how hard it is to get an account banned for bad behavior on XBox Live. As outlined originally, I like the original idea, but I worry about larger implications in both directions. Others have outlined the potential consequences of smaller or more limited cross-bans just as well as I could have, so I won't repeat them. But I don't foresee them happening for a few various reasons.

I think that the concept of restricting Optimatch to accounts with linked gamertags is an attractive one, though I don't think it'll help much as far as general bad behavior in other forums. Indeed, it might encourage such bad behavior as users create alternate accounts to post in other forums thinking that it is "okay." I'm still kind of neutral on this particular idea.


[Edited on 10.24.2007 10:48 AM PDT]

  • 10.24.2007 10:44 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: End
Moderators =/= Bungie employees Moderators are just regular members who.. moderate. They CAN NOT ban me from something I PAID FOR. They would have to be working for Bungie and or Xbox Live to do such a thing. For instance, Recon Number 54 CAN NOT ban me but lukems can. Why you ask? HE WORKS FOR BUNGIE.


Don't sell the moderators too short.

Sure, they can't ban you directly, but the only thing that needs to happen is for Acrhonos to be notified. At that point, you're SOL.

  • 10.24.2007 11:01 AM PDT
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Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: End
Moderators =/= Bungie employees Moderators are just regular members who.. moderate. They CAN NOT ban me from something I PAID FOR. They would have to be working for Bungie and or Xbox Live to do such a thing. For instance, Recon Number 54 CAN NOT ban me but lukems can. Why you ask? HE WORKS FOR BUNGIE.
You can say the same thing over and over again as many different ways as you want, but all you're doing is repeating the same unfounded statement. I understand that you are vehemently against the idea, but for you to say that non-employees can't implement bans that carry over to XBox Live because they are non-employees is a type of circular argument called "begging the question." You are not really giving an actual legal reason that would lead to a claim that you could support in court, despite your threats to sue.

Let me give you an analogy: let's say you go to a cat show and pay $10 entry to an unpaid volunteer working at the front entrance. You sign a form when you enter that says that the cat show can eject you for mistreating the animals. You then enter the cat show and start slamming Legendary Edition helmets on all of the cats' heads. That unpaid volunteer can legally kick you out without a refund despite the fact that you paid and the volunteer is not an employee of the cat show.

  • 10.24.2007 11:02 AM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Posted by: x Foman123 x
You can say the same thing over and over again as many different ways as you want, but all you're doing is repeating the same unfounded statement. I understand that you are vehemently against the idea, but for you to say that non-employees can't implement bans that carry over to XBox Live because they are non-employees is a type of circular argument called "begging the question." You are not really giving an actual legal reason that would lead to a claim that you could support in court, despite your threats to sue.

BECAUSE ITS NOT FAIR!!!!!!!!!!!

<stomps feet and pouts>

[Edited on 10.24.2007 11:19 AM PDT]

  • 10.24.2007 11:19 AM PDT