Bungie.net Community
This topic has moved here: Subject: Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.
  • Subject: Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Subject: Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: End
Not that, it's just that the Gamertag I own is not equipped with the same email address as my Bungie username. I made the Gamertag a LONG time ago, actually canceled it once and persuaded 1-800-4my-xbox to uncancel it. (I got a woman on the phone and some empty compliments go a long way) I never really had a problem with that until now that I hear that linking my Gamertag will actually mean something and hold some weight.

I don't see the problem.

If you have a long-standing and older WLID that is linked to your Gold account, why not create a Bungie account linked to the WLID? Your current account is only 4 days old. It's not like you have a long Bungie.Net post history that you need to preserve. If you XBL account is your real treasure, then create a Bungie.Net account that links to it.

Your account SHOULD hold some weight and SHOULD mean something. If it means nothing, then why does it matter so much that your voice be heard on MM-related (or any) issues? You're striking right at the point and yet ignoring it at the same time. If you wish to make a contribution, then people should know who you are. An anonymous and unlinked account can be created by anyone with a few minutes and a few mouse clicks. Their welcome to use the site, but to take part on something of value, they should step up and show who they are.

For example...

I got my 360 on the 5th. (I ordered it then, I got it shortly there-after). Soon afterI had hooked up my Box of Love, I came to Bungie.net. I had my Gold account, linked it (because it seemed cool to be able to do that) and started posting.

I would like to think I have some value here, if only for the CO2 I produce (which our plants would need, if they weren't plastic).

Or I'm just an annoying, cynical smart-ass.

One of the two, and I suppose they aren't mutually exclusive.

  • 10.24.2007 9:14 PM PDT

Posted by: SS_Zag1
Posted by: Achilles1108
Hah who knew Achilles would have forgot something. (quiet Zag)

Heh. I would've posted earlier, but those school proxy's are tricky fellows. I almost got to the point of SIGNING IN to Windows LIVE ID. I was so close. :(

So close.

Anyway, I like this idea, it's full of win. Of course, then I got to thinking; for small mishaps and/or inability to follow some of the rules that carry less penalty, people get banned for 3 days. Cool, but then you get banned from Live for 3 days? Ok, but is that a bit harsh for a simple mess up? I would say so.

Then consider this; a guy gets banned for SEVEN days. Now he's without Live AND B.net for 7 Days? It's almost like an already harsh punishment gets extremely harsh. I figure while they're banned from B.net they can play more Matchmaking to cool off. Minus some people get very put out about their inability to play Matchmaking for a few days, I'm really still in favor of this idea. It puts some actual weight on the account, and makes it something far more valuable. (Of course, valuable things are also more valuable to steal, right? ;)

I'd put my vote in for this, the few arguments against it notwithstanding.

You took the words right out of my mouth, and then wrapped them all into one sophisticated narrative, meaning that I do support The Man's proposal.

  • 10.24.2007 9:28 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

We've been here since you left.
We left before you came.

Why not let banned players still be able to play MM, but put them on a restriction. Like, give them a limit on how many games and variants they can play, and maybe even make voice chat inaccessible for them. And if they violate it again, they get a harsher punishment. That way, they can still play, but they're on probation.

  • 10.24.2007 9:41 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: MikeNeel
What about those of us who don't play halo for the multiplayer and only play for the storyline. I could care less about multiplayer and xbox live, if I wanna shoot some people, I'll call some friends over or even set up a lan. I don't have live, and I don't really want it. Because of that I'm not allowed to come into the Halo 3 forum and discuss the story line and crazy theories. That's discrimination to us story players just because we're the minority and don't care about multiplayer. I openly disagree with that and if implemented I'd leave the community. Sure there's groups, but there's still plenty of reasonable and theories and posts over story line and forrunner are humans threads in the Halo 3 forum.


And as for seperating the Multiplayer aspect from the campaign aspect, we've tried that already, and it was an epic failure with a PH. Maybe now it could suceed with Achrono's new goodies he has in store for the site, but I don't think we need a Halo 3 forum and a Last Resort forum.

I think that you may have misunderstood. The forum that is most seriously being eyed for needing a linked GamerCard is the OptiMatch forum. Which is dedicated to MatchMaking discussions.

The other forums would be open and available for all members to use and enjoy. Only OptiMatch (and perhaps some file share forums) would have any requirements in order to post or reply.


They could also have a Halo 3 Multiplayer forum and a Halo 3 Campaign forum like we had back when Halo 2 came out. As long as we don't have a mess of sub-forums, I'm fine.

  • 10.24.2007 10:16 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

We've been here since you left.
We left before you came.

Posted by: Recon Number 54
I suspect that the Halo 3 forum will continue as it is. There isn't a need to recreate Zanzibar.


Heh, like re-creating Zanzibar would benefit us at all.

I don't really see how exclusivity would benefit this site, if we're against elitism, logically, it makes sense not to make things exclusive to certain people.

  • 10.24.2007 10:27 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: NinjAg
They could also have a Halo 3 Multiplayer forum and a Halo 3 Campaign forum like we had back when Halo 2 came out. As long as we don't have a mess of sub-forums, I'm fine.

But campaign and MP are very blurred in Halo 3.

What would you consider an online 4 man co-op game with scoring? Is that campaign or is it MP?

How about a forge game on a LAN?

I suspect that the Halo 3 forum will continue as it is. There isn't a need to recreate Zanzibar.



I was just throwing an idea out there...A for effort?

  • 10.24.2007 10:54 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Absolutely.

Sorry if it seemed like I was shooting it down.

A for apology?


I'm just giving you a hard time. :)

I'm just putting off studying for my exams on Friday...I should get to that.

But you do get an A.

I figure there's some way to separate online discussion, but I guess we can get all that taken care of in the Optimatch.

  • 10.24.2007 11:00 PM PDT

Chill out.

I'm gonna go ahead and say it- ridiculous. The forums shouldn't affect the games. If I say something that one of the mods doesn't like, they can arbitrarily stop me from using a game that I paid for on a service that I pay for? There is such a thing in this country as freedom of speech. Though I have a problem with it, being suspended from free forums isn't that big of a deal. Being suspended from something completely unrelated that you pay for is. The system works- don't push it.

  • 10.24.2007 11:46 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Forum Ninja
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

The only Twitter I follow. Except yours ;)
The Frozen Minority; Bungie's real underground. The oldest members, the deepest controversy, walking infamy.

Posted by: Vaderhater027
I'm gonna go ahead and say it- ridiculous. The forums shouldn't affect the games. If I say something that one of the mods doesn't like, they can arbitrarily stop me from using a game that I paid for on a service that I pay for? There is such a thing in this country as freedom of speech. Though I have a problem with it, being suspended from free forums isn't that big of a deal. Being suspended from something completely unrelated that you pay for is. The system works- don't push it.

1) The internet is not a country. And this site is the furthest thing from your particular country I have ever witnessed.
2) The system barely works at all. Trust me on this one, mate.

  • 10.25.2007 2:49 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Forum Ninja
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

The only Twitter I follow. Except yours ;)
The Frozen Minority; Bungie's real underground. The oldest members, the deepest controversy, walking infamy.

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Just in case someone missed it, there is also the point that has been made multiple times, and reinforced by a Bungie employee.

Forum bans will not directly link to, or result in, MM bans. Not now, not ever. People will be banned from MM by Bungie for their actions in MM.
I think that is definatley for the best. I would spend my time blacklisting my friends anyway, for lols.

Watch out, Gendo!

I dont think trusting a group of internet entities with peoples money is the smartest decision. Now, personally, i would LOVE to be able to remove jerks but I can see why we will never be able to.

  • 10.25.2007 2:57 AM PDT

‮‮Awesax

Posted by: Pezz
Trust me on this one, mate.

=Hammering home his lack of American citizenship.
Aussie, Aussie, Aussie!

[Edited on 10.25.2007 3:01 AM PDT]

  • 10.25.2007 3:01 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Elder Mythic Member

Im going to keep betraying you while i still can, pezz.

"veto -blam!- shotty snipers or im banning you all!"

  • 10.25.2007 3:45 AM PDT

I just have to say that this is one of the most civil and productive discussions I've seen on these forums... Ever. Also, I agree 100% with Recon's earlier dissertation.

I have only one thing to add... I believe the whole purpose of this discussion, as Recon alluded to, is to determine a way to add value to linked accounts. So far, from what I'm seen (admittedly, I skimmed somewhat), we've only explored methods of restricting bad behaviour. Why not, instead, look at ways of rewarding users for linking their accounts.

Aside from the potential benefits that Recon suggests, such as the ability to post in certain forums, what incentive is there to link your gamertag? The Seventh Column logo on your Halo 3 gamertag? That's cool for me, but maybe not for everyone? Perhaps something as simple as additional avatars, or a dedicated forum would be a little more appealing.

Now, be clear, I'm not suggesting any sort of elitism here. I'm just saying that if you give people a positive reason to link their accounts, you may see more people do it.

[Edited on 10.25.2007 6:50 AM PDT]

  • 10.25.2007 5:35 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Vaderhater027
There is such a thing in this country as freedom of speech.

This always gets me.

The failings of High School civics classes terrifies me, so I shall attempt to correct Vadergater's incorrect assumption.

The freedom of speech that you alude to does, indeed, exist. It is, however, covered with conditions. I can't say "I want to shoot the President" in any way. Doing so is a crime that the Secret Service rightly takes very seriously. Sure the odds are good I wouldn't mean it or follow through with it, but you only need one nutcase to go and bring a gun to a rope-line for things to get ugly fast.

You also can't - as the classic example - shout "Fire" in a crowded theater (it would cause panic, and endanger people), nor can you make bomb jokes on an airplane (seriously, why do people still do this, have they still not learned?).

That said, you have a wide range of freedom in what you say, and who you say it to.

That freedom ends the moment you aren't talking about the federal government, state governments, or even local (city) governments.

The 1st Amendment protects your right to free speech in regards to actions/laws from the Federal Government. The 14th Amendment extends that protection to every level of gevernment (before the 14th Amendment, the states could restrict speech all they wanted). Corporations, organizations, clubs, etc can all limit your speech because they are not the government. If Bungie decided we couldn't use the word "Gear", and wanted to filter it, they can.

You are here by choice, and need not stay here. You can leave and regain the freedom to use the word "Gear" at any time.

I hope that helps you understand why what you said was so epicly retarded.

  • 10.25.2007 6:43 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Forum Ninja
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

The only Twitter I follow. Except yours ;)
The Frozen Minority; Bungie's real underground. The oldest members, the deepest controversy, walking infamy.

Posted by: Big Black Bear
Now, be clear, I'm not suggesting any sort of elitism here. I'm just saying that if you give people a positive reason to link their accounts, you may see more people do it.

Bear, good post. However this one point stuck out for me.

This is not anyone's fault (least of all yours, you simply have made it so apparent to me). We have become a community which doesn't fear elitism, as such, we fear people thinking we seek it (deep down we all want to excel, we naturally put ourselves before others, that is human nature and anyone who disagrees that we all seek to improve our position in The World is a liar).

Now, we don't fear elitism in this community, but we do fear the word itself and we fear that we might be judged 'elitists' by our fellow members and it is rediculous.
Incentive is not elitism, ok? I am completely all for forums where you need to be a member for a year or forums where you need a gamertag or additional avatars and features for productive members. These are brilliant ideas and would be beneficial to a community which, it seems, knows it has nothing to lose.

I won't bring any specific political examples into this but; when you have a classless society, people will always find a niche, a foothold to exploit and ascend through. I see it everyday in The Flood's sub-culture or the barbarism of The Halo 3 Forum. I don't know why we don't channel this positively and give our members something to strive for.

Elitism will, no doubt, emerge regardless of access to privelidges so why not change it to incentive and potential goals for the community? Any person who actually acts elitist (note; elitist, not truthful or motivated, true elitism) would instantly be put down to square one.



Wow, sorry. I am really burnt out from study and I am off my face on insomnia. I won't drag this any further off topic but read my post and understand it. Thank you, Bear, for making the cogs inside my head turn. You shouldn't have to specify that you aren't advocating elitism in your suggestions and it is high time other people realise this. Incentive, not elitism. It has taken on the same connotations as 'hacker' or 'genocidal maniac' and it is way out of control in The Septagon.

uhh... back on topic! *cough*.

[Edited on 10.25.2007 6:52 AM PDT]

  • 10.25.2007 6:43 AM PDT

Posted by: X Rampancy X
JESUS CHRIST I'M COVERED IN BEES
Theme song tiem.
Pezz = win.
Lazer kitty says: PEW PEW PEW!

Posted by: Achronos
Optimatch is likely to be restricted to Gold account users - it is meant for feedback about matchmaking, and quite frankly, we don't really care about your opinion of matchmaking if you're not a Gold account holder, because you aren't using it. Far too many people troll there, and it hurts those who are actually paying for Xbox Live and are trying to constructively help us build a better set of playlists.


Which is essentially what I said earlier. I think that we can all agree that this is the one really good idea that has resulted from this proposal, because it makes logical sense.

  • 10.25.2007 7:02 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

In what way was I vauge?

I believe you are confusing "part of the show" and "audicance member being an -blam!-".

Or am I not understanding what part of my simply-worded explanation you failed to grasp?

  • 10.25.2007 8:32 AM PDT

Posted by: WolfmanMaverick
You people have just sent my sides into orbit. A bunch of MLG try hards sucking the dick of some supposed pro half the thread hasn't even heard of. Classic.

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
I don't think that Achilles would argue that an extensive Matchmaking ban would be wise. Just a little poke with a stick to see what kind of reaction you'd get (/Ed Murrow).

That was my main intention. I mainly wanted to see how people would react to such a crazy idea and to see what we could get out of it.


Posted by: Achronos
However, it is likely that at some point, the Optimatch forum (at minimum) will be restricted so that only people who have linked Gold gamertags will be able to post in it. The Halo 3 forum and the Halo 3 Files forums could possibly be limited to require a Silver or Gold gamertag to participate, although we'll probably wait to see on that one based on how that forum evolves over the next couple months. Right now, we haven't done it because Optimatch is mostly behaving and we know a lot of you have your gamertag linked to a different Live ID than the one you post in the forums with. We have a few ideas on how to get around that particular problem, though, so don't be surprised if the status quo changes in the next few months. A lot of my time right now is being spent working on a few of the "social problems" we have, so hopefully we'll see things improve in that regard eventually.

Now this is music to my ears. I really see this helping out. Glad to see that it looks like it can be possibly be done.

  • 10.25.2007 8:51 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: End
Posted by: AblativeMeatshld
In what way was I vauge?

I believe you are confusing "part of the show" and "audicance member being an -blam!-".

Or am I not understanding what part of my simply-worded explanation you failed to grasp?

Umm, I did grasp it.
Obviously not...

Why are you being a dick?Mainly because I can, and it helps the message get throught the multiple layers of "stupid" some people seem to have built up.

I mean you were vague because you explained it as if you say anything bad about the government you will be arrested or whatever when that isn't the case.And that isn't what I said. My example was specifically about comments that are threatening to the President. The same also holds true for members of Congress, and members of the Administration. Threats are illegal, criticism is not.

It's more as if you were saying something that was threatening to the government and people in general.Which is exactly what I said.

Reading comprehension skills ftw.


[Edited on 10.25.2007 8:53 AM PDT]

  • 10.25.2007 8:52 AM PDT