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This topic has moved here: Subject: Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.
  • Subject: Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Subject: Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely.

It was a cold day near the southern base in Blood Gulch. Cortana and I were relaxing over a game of Go Fish, WHEN OUT OF NO WHERE 700 BANSHEES CAME FLYING IN!!! I GRABED MY SPARTAN LASER AND LET HELL REIGN DOWN UPON THEM. I HOPPED IN THE NEAREST WARTHOG AND TOLD CORTANA TO GET IN.

Posted by: prometheus25
If the community had a way of highlighting, or advertising, what would be considered positive and constructive behavior (such as one whose title of "member" is written in red and/or whose text is pure white instead of the grey of normal members), they would be drawn to them (like we are drawn to the salmon or gold text) instead of the insults. They'll hopefully be more interested in trying to achieve something that everyone can notice everytime they post, rather than constantly trying to out-insult other posters in each thread they visit.

I agree. I've argued for a system like this for awhile (although most of the time it was just spent bickering with people who shout "elitism" if you look at them the wrong way), but I don't think I write as well as you. You worded your post very well.

EDIT: Sorry for the double post. I forgot about the first one. :P

[Edited on 10.25.2007 4:00 PM PDT]

  • 10.25.2007 3:54 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: Pink Menace
Posted by: prometheus25
If the community had a way of highlighting, or advertising, what would be considered positive and constructive behavior (such as one whose title of "member" is written in red and/or whose text is pure white instead of the grey of normal members), they would be drawn to them (like we are drawn to the salmon or gold text) instead of the insults. They'll hopefully be more interested in trying to achieve something that everyone can notice everytime they post, rather than constantly trying to out-insult other posters in each thread they visit.

I agree. I've argued for a system like this for awhile (although most of the time it was just spent bickering with people who shout "elitism" if you look at them the wrong way), but I don't think I write as well as you. You worded your post very well.

EDIT: Sorry for the double post. I forgot about the first one. :P


Thanks. I hate writing, but I guess I'm not so bad at it when my subject is something I'm passionate for.

  • 10.25.2007 4:14 PM PDT
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Forum posting DOES not affect XBL TOU, as far as I know off. You can be banned on www.xbox.com and nothing will happen to your account. I'm pretty sure Microsoft doesn't like banning people very often either, I think this is a dumb idea. I mean it could lose customers for Microsoft.

And Halo 3 is NOT mp only, so this is kind of dumb.

  • 10.25.2007 4:31 PM PDT
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my bad

[Edited on 10.25.2007 4:45 PM PDT]

  • 10.25.2007 4:35 PM PDT
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yea exept what happens when pezza's account gets hacked and then half of bungie gets more than just blacklisted from the forums...

  • 10.25.2007 4:50 PM PDT
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This thread makes for a great read. It took a damn while and I had to sift through some really off topic political stuff but the ideas in this thread are solid and I support them completely.

I agree with those of you who think elitism would be a problem on Bnet, but I don't think "forum medals" would cause elitism. I can't see anything drastically wrong with people be awarded medals for their hard work at improving the community in some way.

  • 10.25.2007 6:08 PM PDT

Posted by: X Rampancy X
JESUS CHRIST I'M COVERED IN BEES
Theme song tiem.
Pezz = win.
Lazer kitty says: PEW PEW PEW!

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: Pink Menace
The only thing I don't like is that people without GT's can't post.

But if someone doesn't have a gamertag, then they don't/can't use MM, why would they have any reason to post in OptiMatch?


Exactly. Making such a system for the optimatch forum would drastically decrease the spam.

  • 10.25.2007 6:11 PM PDT

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the clichéd lines.

Posted by: Recon Number 54
But if someone doesn't have a gamertag, then they don't/can't use MM, why would they have any reason to post in OptiMatch?

Yes, they can. You can play social matchmaking as a guest.

  • 10.25.2007 6:20 PM PDT
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Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: kojirodensetsu
Posted by: Recon Number 54
But if someone doesn't have a gamertag, then they don't/can't use MM, why would they have any reason to post in OptiMatch?

Yes, they can. You can play social matchmaking as a guest.
This post stopped me in my tracks. That's a great point, and really no argument against it if you believe that every single person who has ever played Matchmaking deserves to have their voice heard in the Optimatch forum.

At the same time, however, I doubt that there are high numbers of "disenfranchised" (so to speak) guests who play enough Matchmaking to formulate an opinion but yet do not have their own gamertag. I, personally, think that the overall good of the forum likely outweighs the extremely rare situation where a player does not have a gamertag and yet plays a lot of Matchmaking.

I won't even touch the issue of whether a person "deserves" to post in Optimatch if they won't pay for a gamertag -- I don't think that the issue needs to go that far to be resolved.

  • 10.25.2007 6:33 PM PDT

Good, bad, I'm the guy with the clichéd lines.

Since Halo 2 was first out to about.. around a few months ago, I exclusively played as a guest at my friend's house because I had no XBox. But since he got a 360 he's lent me his XBox and now I got XBL.

[Edited on 10.25.2007 6:38 PM PDT]

  • 10.25.2007 6:36 PM PDT

"But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Your to manipulate, destroy and rebuild. Now, in the quantum moment before closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time. I know who you are. You are destiny."

I see. Well, I honestly think that would be a good idea.

It'd keep spammers and the unknowing and un-halo majority of people away.

~`Cortana

  • 10.25.2007 6:49 PM PDT

"But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Your to manipulate, destroy and rebuild. Now, in the quantum moment before closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time. I know who you are. You are destiny."

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: kojirodensetsu
Posted by: Recon Number 54
But if someone doesn't have a gamertag, then they don't/can't use MM, why would they have any reason to post in OptiMatch?

Yes, they can. You can play social matchmaking as a guest.

But they are not a user of MM, they are a visitor to it.

Someone visiting me from overseas doesn't have the ability to vote in an election, just because it occurs in the middle of their visit.


So guests to MM Should not get to post?

But then again, if we did that, how many people would leave the Bnet? Think about it. There's a few people dedicated to posting in those areas. Some of them don't even have XBL Gold. Think about the consequences in terms of population drop too.

~`Cortana

[Edited on 10.25.2007 7:00 PM PDT]

  • 10.25.2007 6:58 PM PDT

"But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand. You follow the path, fitting into an infinite pattern. Your to manipulate, destroy and rebuild. Now, in the quantum moment before closure, when all become one. One moment left. One point of space and time. I know who you are. You are destiny."

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: RampantCortana
So guests to MM Should not get to post?

But then again, if we did that, how many people would leave the Bnet? Think about it. There's a few people dedicated to posting in those areas. Some of them don't even have XBL Gold. Think about the consequences in terms of population drop too.

~`Cortana

In the rest of the forums? Certainly.

In OptiMatch? I don't see the point. If they are not a XBL-Gold account holder, then they are not a known participant in the MM system. They have no standing and have not shown that they are a user of the system that could be profoundly effected by discussions in that forum.

Because that forum can (potentially) have a serious impact on MatchMaking, I think that it is reasonable that all participants be able to show that they are a valid and legitimate user of the system.

For example, I also do not think that a GT who has been banned from MM (for network manipulation, modding, or cheating) should have ANY say in what goes on in MM. They had that right, but abused it and (IMO) should lose their voice.

Similarly, someone who has only a Silver account or plays (frequently or infrequently) as a guest has not "met the requirement" to show that they have a true stake in the possible changes.

If they really think that it is so important that their voice be heard. 14 cents a day not only allows them to participate in the discussion, but to benefit from the entire XBL service.


Yes. Exactly.

-Dissallowing people who were banned from XBL to post in optimatch? (Check) (Possible no post in fourms as a whole? Or is that already there? MS should give you a list of banned accounts to filter Bnet accounts.)

-Silver acocunts technically can't play matchmaking. They shouldn't be allowed to voice opinion. (Check)

-Maybe set a specific RP or skill requirement to post in optimatch? ( I dunno? )

~`Cortana


[Edited on 10.25.2007 7:30 PM PDT]

  • 10.25.2007 7:30 PM PDT

It was a cold day near the southern base in Blood Gulch. Cortana and I were relaxing over a game of Go Fish, WHEN OUT OF NO WHERE 700 BANSHEES CAME FLYING IN!!! I GRABED MY SPARTAN LASER AND LET HELL REIGN DOWN UPON THEM. I HOPPED IN THE NEAREST WARTHOG AND TOLD CORTANA TO GET IN.

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: RampantCortana
So guests to MM Should not get to post?

But then again, if we did that, how many people would leave the Bnet? Think about it. There's a few people dedicated to posting in those areas. Some of them don't even have XBL Gold. Think about the consequences in terms of population drop too.

~`Cortana

In the rest of the forums? Certainly.

In OptiMatch? I don't see the point. If they are not a XBL-Gold account holder, then they are not a known participant in the MM system. They have no standing and have not shown that they are a user of the system that could be profoundly effected by discussions in that forum.

Since when do you need to be affected by something to be able to post in its forum? I don't own Halo 3- should I be allowed there? I don't visit Bnet that often. Should I be allowed to contribute to threads that will lead to changes in the site?

I think it's strange to say that just because someone isn't directly receiving a service they don't have any worthwhile ideas to improve that service.

  • 10.25.2007 9:19 PM PDT
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Discussions in Optimatch can cause changes in MatchMaking.
Those who do not use MatchMaking would not be affected by the changes.
Why should they have a say? 'Freedom of Speech'?
But, in this case, that speech is meaningless; speech without meaning is just noise.
Freedom of Noise?

  • 10.25.2007 9:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: dalmedya
Discussions in Optimatch can cause changes in MatchMaking.
Those who do not use MatchMaking would not be affected by the changes.
Why should they have a say? 'Freedom of Speech'?
But, in this case, that speech is meaningless; speech without meaning is just noise.
Freedom of Noise?

Thats pretty much the simplified version of the idea, though I think of it more as "Freedom for Fun" :P
Will there possibly be any other changes, or are the other ideas still up for possible addition?

[Edited on 10.25.2007 10:00 PM PDT]

  • 10.25.2007 10:00 PM PDT
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SPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!

What a spectacular topic all in all. This really helped re-invigorate my fervor for this community. Nicely done.

On topic, I think that limiting the posting privileges in the Optimatch to only Gold-linked accounts is a step in the right direction. I honestly thought that was going to happen in the last major update to be honest. Temper that position though. The Optimatch means something different to me than it does to most of you. I don't really have much interest in suggesting changes to the playlists, so I only really moderate in that forum. I rarely ever contribute anything. Being that I only view it through a moderator's eyes, I think its a mess, in dire need of fixing. But as I said, that's just my selfish reasoning.

The "ban on b.net=ban on xbox-live" issue seems moot, since Achronos already told us that Bungie themselves will never let it happen. That's a good thing in my opinion, because I honestly don't want to be responsible for xbox live issues on top of bungie.net issues. The very idea made me cringe a little bit. I think it would be effective if done correctly, but I don't think the rewards outweigh the risks in the long run. However, perhaps users who are known spammers/trolls who's GTs we know about could be banned.

In addendum to that, perhaps banning users who constantly play with known spammers could be looked at too. Say, you play more than 10 games a week regularly with a known spammer, and you're banned from the forums and from live for 48 hours or something. It may take away some of the reason as to why spammers spam, in that they won't have friends who the can brag about their exploits to. Although, doing that may just make more spammers, who are angry about their arguably unjustified bans. Banning someone when they did not do anything wrong themselves is probably not the best method. I think that the risks outweigh the rewards there too. Though I'm just throwing it out there.

As for everything else; I don't think the Halo 3 forum nor the Halo 2 forum should be restricted to Gold or Silver accounts. I think that those forums should be open to all who are willing to make an account here. The only problem is the gigantic mess that the Halo 3 forum is right now. I can't put into words the frustration that the Halo 3 forum insists I experience and pass on to some of you from time to time. I don't know what can be done to fix it though. Its frequently too busy to even keep up with, much less moderate. Trying to put the fear of being banned into them isn't working that well, because they see so many other misbehaving users get away with murder. I guess that's a different topic though.

To surmise, Optimatch & Gold accounts = win! Halo 3 & Halo 2 Forums, I don't know; and banning spammers GTs = win!!!!

[Edited on 10.25.2007 11:13 PM PDT]

  • 10.25.2007 11:09 PM PDT
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I know how to fix the Halo 3 forum.
SPLIT IT UP. The more pieces the better.

The ban-by-association idea is bad. Reeks of KGB.
Banning spammer GTs from Halo = good, from XBL = bad.

  • 10.25.2007 11:21 PM PDT
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And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

What a spectacular topic all in all. This really helped re-invigorate my fervor for this community. Nicely done.

Great, good to see you here again, Evilcam!

On topic, I think that limiting the posting privileges in the Optimatch to only Gold-linked accounts is a step in the right direction. I honestly thought that was going to happen in the last major update to be honest. Temper that position though. The Optimatch means something different to me than it does to most of you. I don't really have much interest in suggesting changes to the playlists, so I only really moderate in that forum. I rarely ever contribute anything. Being that I only view it through a moderator's eyes, I think its a mess, in dire need of fixing. But as I said, that's just my selfish reasoning.

The "ban on b.net=ban on xbox-live" issue seems moot, since Achronos already told us that Bungie themselves will never let it happen. That's a good thing in my opinion, because I honestly don't want to be responsible for xbox live issues on top of bungie.net issues. The very idea made me cringe a little bit. I think it would be effective if done correctly, but I don't think the rewards outweigh the risks in the long run. However, perhaps users who are known spammers/trolls who's GTs we know about could be banned.


I agree about the last part. If you are a well know spammer, known for creating alternate accounts etc, then you deserve to be banned from MM. But say you are an 11 year old kid new to the forums, and make several threads regarding some issues you have with Halo 3. Then you break most rules and you probably have bad grammar and spelling as well, but should you recieve a short ban from Xbox Live because of that? No.
And then another issue occurs: How do you tell the rookies from the spammers? You can't, so this system would be very hard to implent into the forums, too hard in my opinion.

}In addendum to that, perhaps banning users who constantly play with known spammers could be looked at too. Say, you play more than 10 games a week regularly with a known spammer, and you're banned from the forums and from live for 48 hours or something. It may take away some of the reason as to why spammers spam, in that they won't have friends who the can brag about their exploits to. Although, doing that may just make more spammers, who are angry about their arguably unjustified bans. Banning someone when they did not do anything wrong themselves is probably not the best method. I think that the risks outweigh the rewards there too. Though I'm just throwing it out there.

Sounds like a terrible idea Evilcam. Say you have a friend you know is a bad-ass spammer in these forums, naturally you constantly try to tell him that he should stop being such an ass. But he won't listen and still keep spamming. Would you stop playing with him just because he spams some internet forums? No, probably not. That would be like going to jail because you saw someone rob a store or something. Also, if he is just one of your random Xbox Live friends there is no way of knowing if he is a spammer or not.

As for everything else; I don't think the Halo 3 forum nor the Halo 2 forum should be restricted to Gold or Silver accounts. I think that those forums should be open to all who are willing to make an account here. The only problem is the gigantic mess that the Halo 3 forum is right now. I can't put into words the frustration that the Halo 3 forum insists I experience and pass on to some of you from time to time. I don't know what can be done to fix it though. Its frequently too busy to even keep up with, much less moderate. Trying to put the fear of being banned into them isn't working that well, because they see so many other misbehaving users get away with murder. I guess that's a different topic though.

To surmise, Optimatch & Gold accounts = win! Halo 3 & Halo 2 Forums, I don't know; and banning spammers GTs = win!!!!


As for the Halo 3 forum: Make both a Multiplayer and a Singelplayer Halo 3 forum. Only people with linked GT could post in the MP forum, and everyone could post in the SP forum. This would probably bring down the spam and make the job easier for you guys.

A quick note: Sorry if I had a lot of wrong spelling and bad grammar here, I'm at school so I don't have time to correct the post at the moment. Will do it later.


EDIT: Added another comment and fixed a typo.

[Edited on 10.26.2007 2:16 AM PDT]

  • 10.25.2007 11:53 PM PDT