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Posted by: Shai Hulud
Half a year, and no real change. The only, little change that there has been was just an increase in those who make this site less of a community, and more of a random collection of people who fall into what really are just high-school clicks. I'll tell you what those clicks are, not naming names, but if you really know me, you'll know who I think fall into those groups:
(etc)
Don't forget the ever-present "veterans" who have been around for a whopping three or four years (or sometimes even five!) and feel like that is a sufficient amount of time to lord it over the newcomers and lament how terrible the community is compared to the "good old days." Call me old or something, but these posts always seem to be a bit silly coming from people who've been around for only a few years, which is really not much time at all in the grand scheme of things -- even an online community.
Anyway, I, like many of the previous posters, love the uniqueness of this place, and it is truly the only place where I can socialize on a regular basis and on a somewhat immature-but-friendly level with people ten or fifteen years younger than me AND with people who are one or two hundred years older than me (Recon) without feeling like we have nothing at all in common. For a community like this one, my opinion has always been that you should take it relatively lightly. I like coming here to engage my brain in a lighthearted and half-serious way during the downtimes at work or in my personal life when I have nothing better to do. Spam and flaming only bother me to the extent that they get in the way of me trying to have more entertaining/engaging discussions. The same goes for forum drama, which is prevalent here but fortunately tends to confine itself to certain areas of the site.
If you look at things in that way, you'll see that conformity to a single type of member (whatever that type may be) is not the way to go. I'm not sure what kind of homogenous community you seem to be pushing for, but I can assure you that things would not be nearly as fun or interesting around here if we didn't have some of the characters that we do. As much as I have been guilty of getting a little worked up in the past at some of the trolls, flamers, drama queens, knee-jerk Bungie-haters, knee-jerk Bungie defenders, or the automatic devils' advocates, I wouldn't want everybody here to be the same. I agree with you that there is much childishness visible on these forums, thanks to the fact that many community members are children, but that does not give anybody the right to say that the community as a whole is childish.
I realize that your post wasn't malicious; it kind of falls into that category of the regularly scheduled once-a-month "Ain't Like It Used To Be" or "The Community Is Ailing/Dying/Dead/Annoying" threads. Many people before you have attempted to "categorize" the various types of BNet members, and almost all of their posts, like yours, disparage or negatively portray the vast majority of the "categories" into which their victims fall. It seems from outward appearances that the categorizers truly dislike or even despise anybody who they don't think falls within their idea of being a good, contributing member to this community. To me, however, these "categories" always ring a little bit false. This place has way too many unique members to allow for adequate categorization. Now don't get me wrong -- this place is very much a community. But it's not like a real-life community for many reasons. For example, people can come and go as they please, face little consequence for their actions (provided that they are within the rules), and almost always make their actions in this community last priority behind the other more important things in their life and their real-life communities (as they should).
Mature, intelligent discussion is quite easy to find once you know where to look for it and how to elicit it. It is surprising to me, therefore, that despite your long tenure in these forums, you wrote your first post in a mature, sophisticated manner and had the automatic expectation that everybody would flame you. No offense intended here, but I find it a bit ironic that your post appears to reflect careful analysis and observation (whether accurate or not) of the types of posts and members that can be found here, yet you seem to have not realized that your post was unlikely to draw any flaming. I'm glad to see that this thread has proved at least that part of your first post to be wrong. I just think that I'd like to see a bit more observation (and perhaps enforcement) of the forum rules, but I don't feel that everybody needs to conform to your idea of a helpful community member.
At any rate, to sum it all up, I think that you, and really anybody, attempting an analyze-then-lament-the-state-of-the-community post should take things here a little more lightly. I think that it's great when people have ideas about how to improve the community, how to encourage better posting, or how to raise the maturity level a bit here. But sadly, this is not one of those posts. For all of its well-written eloquence and mature analysis, all your post amounts to is a finger-pointing and complaining session with no usefulness for improving what you perceive and claim to be a sad state of affairs.
I suppose you predicted a response similar to this in your original post, but making such a prediction merely shows that you are aware of the nature of your original post. It does not make you more justified or correct in what you wrote. Once again, please don't misinterpret me as flaming you or saying that I disagree with your "categories," because I've already noted that I don't tend to categorize members in that way (I tend to see people as individuals) and thus cannot really comment as to the accuracy of your categorization. What I'm saying, in essence, is that I think that you're taking things a little too seriously and perhaps over-dramatizing the entire community. After all, it's a video game forum, not a high school soap opera. And I mean that in the friendliest possible way.... know what I mean?
Moving on to your other topic, which is really a whole different topic entirely:
I'm going to end by saying that I find it disgusting that so many of you criticize things that quite simply are not the way you want them. The games aren't such-and-such the way you want them. Bungie doesn't treat you the way you want them. One thing that you'll learn in life when or IF you grow up, is that things simply aren't the way you want them, and you have to accept that. -blam!-ing gets you no-where. Bungie responds with an "appease," and then all you do is -blam!- more. Doesn't that say something? It's like asking for cake, and then getting pissed off because someone put sprinkles on top because they were nice.I disagree with you somewhat. Some things aren't the way you want them, and you have to accept it because no matter what you do, they won't change. For example, you might want the sun to rise in the west, but you have to accept it and complaining about it won't change anything. In a similar vein, there are many aspects of Halo and Bungie that will not or cannot be changed, and you have to accept those and stop complaining as well. But a reasonable and ambitious person realizes that some things can be changed, and that person will set out actively to change them to make them more efficient, more desirable, more fun, or more profitable.
Yes, there are many spoiled and/or arrogant members here who erroneously believe that Bungie should be catering to their whims (take your pick of the various issues that are popular with these folks). And perhaps those are the only kinds of posts that you are talking about here. But in case you're not, the key is realizing what can be reasonably complained about or discussed in order to facilitate changes that are beneficial to everybody. I see nothing wrong with making a well-reasoned post about a gametype or map change in Optimatch that you think would be better, or with advocating new features for BNet that you think would make it easier or more fun to visit.
At any rate, it seemed like you were saying that we should accept everything (apparently everything "in life") without complaint. If that's not what you meant, then I'm sorry, but if it is, then I must respectfully disagree.