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  • Subject: Interesting Lack of Change.
Subject: Interesting Lack of Change.

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Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: SS_Zag1
Calling yourself part of the community really should require you being a part of the community.


But who's job is it to lay down the accepted definition of being an active member. We all know how uncomfortably unbiased the Friend's and Family program went. Anyone who was here for a couple of months and posted a couple instances was instantly an "active" member.

Now, there's nothing wrong with that, but if we go by that definition, then anyone who meets those few prerequisites is, by Bungie's standards, an active member.

I'd like to rephrase that a little bit. Calling yourself a veteran of the community, and lording it over people should really require a bit more than just a fancy join date. It should require some positive works, not just posting on the forums, but really bringing something new to the community.

  • 10.31.2007 11:04 AM PDT
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But who's job is it to lay down the accepted definition of being an active member. We all know how uncomfortably unbiased the Friend's and Family program went. Anyone who was here for a couple of months and posted a couple instances was instantly an "active" member.
I was one of the people who got in the Friend's and Family, and I have to agree with you.
I don't remember exactely what I was doing on the forums at the time, but I know I would not have considered myself an "active" member at that time.

  • 10.31.2007 11:06 AM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: SS_Zag1
Calling yourself part of the community really should require you being a part of the community.


But who's job is it to lay down the accepted definition of being an active member. We all know how uncomfortably unbiased the Friend's and Family program went. Anyone who was here for a couple of months and posted a couple instances was instantly an "active" member.

Now, there's nothing wrong with that, but if we go by that definition, then anyone who meets those few prerequisites is, by Bungie's standards, an active member.

I'm not sure that we can consider "active member" and "community member" synonymous in this conversation. Granted, everyones definition is different, but someone joining to check their stats and make a "How come the match I played in 14 seconds ago isnt showing up on my service record?" thread isnt part of the "Community" in my eyes.

Posted by: SS_Zag1
I'd like to rephrase that a little bit. Calling yourself a veteran of the community, and lording it over people should really require a bit more than just a fancy join date. It should require some positive works, not just posting on the forums, but really bringing something new to the community.

But Zag, with so many members, there is only so much 'new' that can be contributed.

[Edited on 10.31.2007 11:36 AM PDT]

  • 10.31.2007 11:32 AM PDT

Ahh good stuff.

We haven't had a "Everybody sux, but (me) thread in days".

This should help us out a ton. Thanks Guys, come again.

  • 10.31.2007 11:59 AM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

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~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Posted by: twinkiemaker
But Zag, with so many members, there is only so much 'new' that can be contributed.

Right, but I'm talking about the frequent Bungie.net members and such. Not the guy who gets on just so he has a linked tag, or someone who is wondering why some glitch is the way it is. I mean the people who come here to talk to other people and have a good time. The people not here just because it's a convenient help forum. The members who you can say "Oh, I know that guy."

Everyone can help in some way, even if it's just being polite and what-not. But sitting around bashing the community really pissed me off, especially when the person criticizing it hasn't actually done much more than sit on an account for 5 years. Granted, many of the guys who have been around for 4 years or more have done great works for the community. Just some in particular really bother me.

Time shouldn't equal respect or amnesty. Doing community projects and contributing something should. (Unless the member decides to be breaking rules, then he should get the same punishment as everyone else) I feel as if quite a few members (that don't post often) have this idea that they're all high and mighty, and it really bothers some of the people who actively participate and really know what's going on, as opposed to those who pretend they do.

[Edited on 10.31.2007 12:10 PM PDT]

  • 10.31.2007 12:08 PM PDT
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hahah, what the -blam!- is this? Jumpers Public Reunion 2007?

What do you think gives you the ability to comment on the state of the community when you've not posted here for literally years?

I've been gone for some time now, and I did say I wouldn't be back

Yes, we remember the drama. Why the comeback and yet another drama thread? You've posted less than 10 times in the last year. Who the -blam!- are you to come back, -blam!-post, and then slag off just about everyone who's about? Get back under your bridge, shai.

  • 10.31.2007 1:19 PM PDT

I'll be on my own side.

Oh, I see, so just because Josher doesn't post on the forums anymore, he's no longer a part of the community? Right, because you know, the community exists only on the forums. No, forget about all the times he's played with us on XBL, and all the time he's been in the Jumpers, and kept in contact with people he met here. I'd like to know who gave you the authority to decide whether or not someone is part of the community, Zag.

Also, Shai may not have been here for a while, and yes, the drama threads are a tiresome now, but he's got every right to comment on it. I'ts not like he's ignorant to what goes on around here.

  • 10.31.2007 1:43 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: twinkiemaker
I'm not sure that we can consider "active member" and "community member" synonymous in this conversation. Granted, everyones definition is different, but someone joining to check their stats and make a "How come the match I played in 14 seconds ago isnt showing up on my service record?" thread isnt part of the "Community" in my eyes.
.


Well of course that's the view of many a member (myself included), but it's not, unfortunately, our job to asign the definition. That job belongs to Bungie Studios; rsultingly ending up with a very opressive and depressing answer.

  • 10.31.2007 1:54 PM PDT
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Posted by: SS_Zag1
You. I don't know you, Josher. You don't post often, and you can hardly call yourself a community member anymore. The only reason I'm familiar with your name is because I've been in the Jumpers on and off. Just because you sit in the Bungie Jumpers all day doesn't mean you're actually a helpful member, and I think a lot of the others just like you can stop coming in and talking about how the community sucks, when you do nothing to improve it.

Just think about it. Calling yourself part of the community really should require you being a part of the community. Helping out and contributing some. If you call yourself a veteran, but haven't done anything with your many years here besides be a good member, you shouldn't be holding that over people like some golden goblet.

So The Bungie Jumpers aren't a part of the community anymore is that it eh? Sad sad day it is GJJ, all that effort we put into the community for nothing, what a shame it is. Listen Zag, I know you think you're old and you put a lot into this community, but I don't think you know what I've done on this web site. I've done a lot for this community and since I supposedly "left" I'm no longer a part of it. I remember even seeing your name a while back, and how you were active, then you "left", and now you're back and "active" again. So are you telling me that time you were gone, you weren't a part of this community? In all honestly, if I have to be "active" on the public forums to be a "community member" than that sucks.

The truth is Zag, I've been a part of this community since 2003, where I met people that liked to talk about Halo and other Bungie games. I met people like Banshee Barron, Sinister Pig, Reiginko, ShatterStar, Jeff McRae, Nedus, Wra7hofAchilles, Maraxus, Absolutmind (a.k.a. Loki), JoeybagaDonuts, Rip Saw, Sledgefare, Makaveli4life, stosh, Rewin, Snowman, Coke, SHARPE, LizardMonkey, and Obbi. Can you name names like that from your "2004" join date? Most of those people, I took it past this web site and got to know them better outside of this community.

The community extends far beyond these public forums. If you can't see that then you don't know what community is. The Jumpers is a community, and that community is a part of bnet, whether you think so or not. I don't care what else you have to say about me, Shai, or any of the other Jumpers being part of the community unless this post has knocked some sense in your head. It seems to me that you and elmicker would make a cute couple in your competition with each other for all the kiddies and trying to become mods.

Posted by: elmicker
hahah, what the -blam!- is this? Jumpers Public Reunion 2007?

What do you think gives you the ability to comment on the state of the community when you've not posted here for literally years?

Yes, actually our buddy Shai asked us to look at a thread worth viewing in our "community" called the Jumpers. Gives us the ability? Well we can read, write, make intelligent posts, did I forget to say that we're quite good at rebuttals? The fact is elll mick-blam!- errrrr, we are in fact a part of this community. *Read the section above (if you can read this)*

Have fun trying to win the mod award, don't worry about lilttle ol me, I'll just scamper off to the Jumpers forum where life is good and the community is great.

[Edited on 10.31.2007 2:35 PM PDT]

  • 10.31.2007 2:34 PM PDT
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Posted by: Nedus
Oh, I see, so just because Josher doesn't post on the forums anymore, he's no longer a part of the community?


Pretty much... yeah. He might still be an active xbl player and an active jumper, but he's no longer an active member of the b.net public forum community. He might not be as inactive as shai, but he's pretty damned inactive.

Also, Shai may not have been here for a while, and yes, the drama threads are a tiresome now, but he's got every right to comment on it. I'ts not like he's ignorant to what goes on around here.

No. That's like saying i've got every right to stroll into the jumpers' forums (which i haven't used for over a year, much like shai on b.net), and start some drama about how you're all a bunch of immature -blam!- who do nothing but post -blam!-e all the time.

Now, to the core of the thread:

and when we were in high school on this site we didn't act anything like the people you see now. I think that's what Shai is getting at.

Bollocks. Rose-tinted specs. B.Net has never changed. Thinking it was a mecca of maturity back when you were active is nothing short of delusional.

  • 10.31.2007 2:38 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: Josher 35
Can you name names like that from your "2004" join date?


While I don't back Zag's previous comment towards you, I won't let you turn join date into a meaningful community member property. Do not use an arbitrary date as a useful counter-point, I won't stand for it.

[Edited on 10.31.2007 2:45 PM PDT]

  • 10.31.2007 2:42 PM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

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~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Posted by: Josher 35
So The Bungie Jumpers aren't a part of the community anymore is that it eh? Sad sad day it is GJJ, all that effort we put into the community for nothing, what a shame it is.

All the effort you did put in, but have since then stopped. It's not "The good old days" anymore. Jim still helps out, he keeps these forums working the way they should. Maybe once upon a time you did something really cool, but since then I haven't seen a thing from you. If anything, you come back after being gone and start criticizing the current community. Way to build.
Listen Zag, I know you think you're old and you put a lot into this community, but I don't think you know what I've done on this web site. I've done a lot for this community and since I supposedly "left" I'm no longer a part of it. I remember even seeing your name a while back, and how you were active, then you "left", and now you're back and "active" again.
I've never left. I'm not sure where you got that idea from. I've been frequently active since I registered this account, and I was around long before that. As a matter of fact, I can recall such names, and what I've seen from a lot of those guys is them sitting on their front porch like a bunch of old men, yelling at everyone else about how bad the community has gotten, shaking their canes and all that. I don't just mean being active on the forums, I mean doing something. If you don't really participate, you shouldn't come back and yell at people for ruining something you're not even acting a part of.

I'm really glad you're criticizing me for my join date, I thought we got past that quite at least a year ago.

The community extends far beyond these public forums. If you can't see that then you don't know what community is. The Jumpers is a community, and that community is a part of bnet, whether you think so or not. I don't care what else you have to say about me, Shai, or any of the other Jumpers being part of the community unless this post has knocked some sense in your head.
Sure it extends past the forums. However, sitting in the Jumpers isn't helping anyone but your small group. The same kind of groups Shai is complaining about in the OP.
It seems to me that you and elmicker would make a cute couple in your competition with each other for all the kiddies and trying to become mods.Is that the goal? So, you've just put me into the group of guys who are striving to become the next moderators? Shallow as they get. It's almost as bad as those "Floodians" stereotyping the entirety of the Halo 3 Forum. I'd just like to think the guys who come in and try to talk about how bad the community is, how it could be improved, and how the forums are trash should at least be the guys who come here daily and try to help out.

[Edited on 10.31.2007 2:53 PM PDT]

  • 10.31.2007 2:52 PM PDT
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Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: Josher 35
Can you name names like that from your "2004" join date?


While I don't back Zag's previous comment towards you, I won't let you turn join date into a meaningful community member property. Do not use an arbitrary date as a useful counter-point, I won't stand for it.

Haha, like you can do something about it. Thanks for the laugh though, I thought it was funny how you misinterpreted.

Now if you would look deeper into the years and the quotation marks, then you would understand what I'm saying. A community is having relationships with people. By having relationships with those people, I am able to recall names that were at least 4 years ago. That is what community is, and if you don't understand that, then PM me, and I'll help you understand

Disclaimer: Yes, I am a sort of Jerk, I know that, I've been told so many times in my life, but that is just how I respond to things like this. If you don't like it, then you should be more accepting and tolerable, because like it or not, I am part of your community. I laughing at what I just wrote, I'm not aloud to say why it's funny because it would be against the rules, but if you're curious then I will let you in on a little secret.

  • 10.31.2007 2:53 PM PDT

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Posted by: Josher 35
A community is having relationships with people. By having relationships with those people, I am able to recall names that were at least 4 years ago. That is what community is

It's also accepting newer members. I guarentee you the Jumpers "group" are certainly accepting of new members, but they still don't look at them the same way, and probably never will. Just because someone wasn't on that list of "Cool people back then" doesn't mean they're trash, yet you treat them just the same. It's not very nice, if anything.

Zag will never be part of that group, because he joined in 04.

Darn.

  • 10.31.2007 3:00 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: Josher 35
Haha, like you can do something about it. Thanks for the laugh though, I thought it was funny how you misinterpreted.


Further emphasizing Zag's comments towards you. Ace job, you poor sap.

  • 10.31.2007 3:03 PM PDT
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Posted by: SS_Zag1
All the effort you did put in, but have since then stopped. It's not "The good old days" anymore. Jim still helps out, he keeps these forums working the way they should. Maybe once upon a time you did something really cool, but since then I haven't seen a thing from you. If anything, you come back after being gone and start criticizing the current community. Way to build.

What Jim still helps out? As far as I know, my friend is without internet, but it just says that he's been inactive since the 5th, one month no biggy. "Hurry up and get back here James, before you're "Community Membership Card" expires, lol! Oh, and sorry for not participating, you know college, living life, and all kinda got to me instead spending hours and hours on this site.


If you don't really participate, you shouldn't come back and yell at people for ruining something you're not even acting a part of.

I've yelled how? I'm explaining how this "community" isn't even a community at all for the most part. It's more of a joke about community. Look how the Mods didn't even get the Recon armor, that's fine a community if you ask me, lol.



Sure it extends past the forums. However, sitting in the Jumpers isn't helping anyone but your small group.

Funny... I'm here right now... lol



Is that the goal? So, you've just put me into the group of guys who are striving to become the next moderators? Shallow as they get. It's almost as bad as those "Floodians" stereotyping the entirety of the Halo 3 Forum. I'd just like to think the guys who come in and try to talk about how bad the community is, how it could be improved, and how the forums are trash should at least be the guys who come here daily and try to help out.

Sorry, I really don't have the time like I did in high school, I barely have enough time to visit the Jumpers throughout the day. Today I'm actually lucky with classes getting out early and me doing my homework. I'm actually going to a party after I type this. But if you aren't building relationships and forming a community, which I can tell isn't really happening here because you've put a label on the flood, then the only reason I think you're here is to boost your ego and have some kind of purpose with your life. That would mean becoming a mod is your goal. Whether that might be true or not, if it isn't I'd like to see you make a group and start a community of your own, like the Jumpers have.

[Edited on 10.31.2007 3:16 PM PDT]

  • 10.31.2007 3:10 PM PDT
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The only Twitter I follow. Except yours ;)
The Frozen Minority; Bungie's real underground. The oldest members, the deepest controversy, walking infamy.

Is it bad that before I write insanely vicious posts I think to myself "What would Josher do?" and then edit them to be more tollerable? Haha.

I do not see what the OP has to do with The Jumpers anyway. It is a broad thread commenting on the community, everytime that happens the Jumpers get called out and made the central problem.
Do you honestly expect that the Jumpers would not stick together? Of course they all post in the same threads and take the same side... they're all close friends. Whenever one makes a thread (rarely), a mirror thread is placed in the Jumpers encouraging people to share their thoughts on B.net. What else would you expect?

I admit; the Jumpers isn't the arbiter of what is a good and bad community, though we seem to act as we are. That is just the nature of the members, they are opinionated people by nature, which is why they left the main forums, which is why whenever they post they cause problems. Such is life.

Also, stop flaming each other, Josher and Zag.

  • 10.31.2007 3:12 PM PDT

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Posted by: Pezz
I admit; the Jumpers isn't the arbiter of what is a good and bad community, though we seem to act as we are. That is just the nature of the members, they are opinionated people by nature, which is why they left the main forums, which is why whenever they post they cause problems. Such is life.

Well, I guess that's just my biggest gripe then. Such is life.

Posted by: Josher 53
I'm explaining how this "community" isn't even a community at all for the most part. It's more of a joke about community. Look how the Mods didn't even get the Recon armor, that's fine a community if you ask me, lol.

The moderators will get their armor, and I'm also a bit curious as to why they don't have it yet. Still, this is the attitude I'm talking about. "The Jumpers is a real community, and we're all just out here, a joke of a community."

Kind of silly, if you ask me.

[Edited on 10.31.2007 3:21 PM PDT]

  • 10.31.2007 3:17 PM PDT
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Posted by: Pezz
Also, stop flaming each other, Josher and Zag.

No incinerating going on here Duffin, just good discussion about community. Although I'd like to say that the PM system would be more appropriate, but that usually never happens because people like to get seen by the public, lol.

  • 10.31.2007 3:19 PM PDT
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I am able to recall names that were at least 4 years ago

Good for you, josher so can hundreds of others. Now, how about names who posted last week? Or hell a year ago? No, you can't.

However, you are right, a community is built on relationships.

But when those relationships are exclusively with very old members, 99% of whom are gone and the remaining 1% never appearing outside of their private forums, it doesnt exactly count for much, does it?

It seems to me that you and elmicker would make a cute couple in your competition with each other for all the kiddies and trying to become mods.

lol.

so, do you actually have any more points to make about the poor state of the community, or are you just going to continue spouting -blam!-e at whoever dares to oppose you?

  • 10.31.2007 3:20 PM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

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Posted by: Josher 35
Posted by: Pezz
Also, stop flaming each other, Josher and Zag.

No incinerating going on here Duffin, just good discussion about community. Although I'd like to say that the PM system would be more appropriate, but that usually never happens because people like to get seen by the public, lol.

And you haven't sent me a PM. ;)

I'd really prefer if you stopped talking down to everyone though, Josher. Anyway, I've said my piece, I'd rather not stir the fire any more than I have.

[Edited on 10.31.2007 3:24 PM PDT]

  • 10.31.2007 3:23 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
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--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: Josher 35
What Jim still helps out? As far as I know, my friend is without internet, but it just says that he's been inactive since the 5th, one month no biggy. "Hurry up and get back here James, before you're "Community Membership Card" expires, lol! Oh, and sorry for not participating, you know college, living life, and all kinda got to me instead spending hours and hours on this site.



Oh come the hell on. You have got to be kidding me kid. While you are correct about GJJ's current situation of being without an internet connection, I cannot believe the amount of crap you spew after that. There are people on this forum, such as myself and Foman, that have a busier schedule than you do and yet we continue to find time to work in the public B.net community. You know the 7th Column. All of it. You think that you're participation in one minuscule part (the Jumpers) of the community means you're still part of it? That's a joke.

You don't participate, not because of your schedule, but because you're a tool. You figure you can "scamper" off to your group and lament about how the community is languishing and yet you are doing nothing about it. Oh, the community sucks, let's retreat back and talk about how it sucks some more. If you aren't making an effort to improve the community, honestly I couldn't care less about your opinion. You and Shai can all go pour out a little liquor for your dead homie, the Community.

You are dead weight, and long outlasted your usefulness. Take Shai with you.

~B.B.

  • 10.31.2007 3:33 PM PDT

I'll be on my own side.

I already know that stuff around here has changed, and that's fine. The one thing that really irritates me are these people running around saying that people aren't a part of the community. I would just like to know who or what makes these people think they can make such a decision.

  • 10.31.2007 3:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: Nedus
I already know that stuff around here has changed, and that's fine. The one thing that really irritates me are these people running around saying that people aren't a part of the community. I would just like to know who or what makes these people think they can make such a decision.


They aren't part of the community because they haven't participated in well over 2 years. What's so hard about that?

  • 10.31.2007 3:47 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: Josher 35
Posted by: Pezz
Also, stop flaming each other, Josher and Zag.

No incinerating going on here Duffin, just good discussion about community. Although I'd like to say that the PM system would be more appropriate, but that usually never happens because people like to get seen by the public, lol.


A double-edged sword...

Get off your high horse, Josher. Come stand down here so I don't have to look up that skirt of yours while we're dicussing this topic.

  • 10.31.2007 3:47 PM PDT