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This topic has moved here: Subject: Interesting Lack of Change.
  • Subject: Interesting Lack of Change.
Subject: Interesting Lack of Change.
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Posted by: evilcam
Gz, I'd kill the whole world for you




3-19-07

Posted by: Shai Hulud
was the angst held towards the Jumpers and the Veterans.

veteranship, and the Jumpers,

SOME of you have towards older members and Jumpers here.


Wait a second, I thought you were trying to tell us that classifying people and separating ourselves into groups on this site was what was wrong with it.

You have no problem with it apparently, seeing as you do it all the time.

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Exactly. This forum lacks a reward for membership other than the ability to post. With post counts you get accomplishment (people may abuse it, but who gives a damn if someone thinks it matters when it doesn't), with ranks you get accomplishment (again, who gives a damn what they mean, all it is is a name on a forum). These things weren't put down in forums for elitism, but to give your members reason to come back, motivate them to be a better member through rewarding them with a fictional and meaningless higher rank/post count.


Reward? You think we deserve a reward for being members that aren't horrible?

Your name becoming common in the community, as happens with people who are good on this site, is more then enough reward!

You people honestly are acting like children, thinking we deserve rewards for doing good.

Doing good is it's own reward.

Good = Nothing

Bad = Punishment

[Edited on 11.03.2007 12:44 PM PDT]

  • 11.03.2007 12:41 PM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

Gzalzi is right in that being a good member shouldn't be reason enough to be reward.

However, I would argue that, if another "council" were created, doing exceptionally good would be rewarded by a spot on the council. The reward is essentially an increase in trust and, mildly, public status. Not a good reward for some, but for people who are committed, it'll suit them just fine.


<sighs> I wasn't exactly trying to classify. I was talking more about people who actually ARE members of the Bungie Jumpers group, and those who have been here for a long while. That's all I'll say on that, and I apologize if I didn't word myself well enough to have that understood.

[Edited on 11.03.2007 12:56 PM PDT]

  • 11.03.2007 12:49 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: Gzalzi
Your name becoming common in the community, as happens with people who are good on this site, is more then enough reward!


While that is true, what are we supposed to do after? Just keep being good? If my name is well known through the community, what am I supposed to do? I'm sorry, but at some point I'm going to get bored of being good, as I'll have nothing else to work towards. I'll end up either quitting or beign less constructive.

What is going to keep me here in the future?

  • 11.03.2007 12:49 PM PDT

Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: Gzalzi
Your name becoming common in the community, as happens with people who are good on this site, is more then enough reward!


While that is true, what are we supposed to do after? Just keep being good? If my name is well known through the community, what am I supposed to do? I'm sorry, but at some point I'm going to get bored of being good, as I'll have nothing else to work towards. I'll end up either quitting or beign less constructive.

What is going to keep me here in the future?

I'll tell you what keeps me here, the community. Being here able to post and share with others is enough a reward as any. I shouldn't have to be coaxed into being good, I don't do this for rewards. I find it truly rediculous that some people want rewards just for being good in their community. It should be a natural thing, not some forced thing to be good. Gah, being good for all the wrong reasons makes me sick. Now I must attend a wedding!

  • 11.03.2007 12:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: evilcam
Gz, I'd kill the whole world for you




3-19-07

Posted by: Shai Hulud
I would argue that, if another "council" were created, doing exceptionally good would be rewarded by a spot on the council. The reward is essentially an increase in trust and, mildly, public status. Not a good reward for some, but for people who are committed, it'll suit them just fine.


A 'council' is not needed.

It will cause nothing but even more harm to the community, and believe me. Any more harm and this place will be more like a landfill then a junkyard.

Your 'council' will 'cause nothing but more immature arguments, like the ones in this thread, and more flaming/hate/arrogance/whatever toward those who run is from everyone else and vice versa.

Posted by: prometheus25
While that is true, what are we supposed to do after? Just keep being good? If my name is well known through the community, what am I supposed to do? I'm sorry, but at some point I'm going to get bored of being good, as I'll have nothing else to work towards. I'll end up either quitting or beign less constructive.

What is going to keep me here in the future?



Warning, harsh reality/opinions ahead.


Tired of being good? Then go ahead and leave. If you stop being good you will just make the community worse.

If that is going to happen, honestly, I don't think you should stay here. This goes for everyone.

I won't miss you, that's for sure.

  • 11.03.2007 12:56 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: The Slayer
I'll tell you what keeps me here, the community. Being here able to post and share with others is enough a reward as any. I shouldn't have to be coaxed into being good, I don't do this for rewards. I find it truly rediculous that some people want rewards just for being good in their community. It should be a natural thing, not some forced thing to be good. Gah, being good for all the wrong reasons makes me sick. Now I must attend a wedding!


Excuse me, but that's not what I said.

Let me paraphrase it for somplicity:

Bad member>punishment
Decent member>no reward
Good member>no reward
Good member for long time>reward

As I've been trying to say, there's nothing to keep long-time, positive members active. I am not saying they will lieave, so don't you dare suggest that. I am saying that there is nothing to encourage them to say. They already won the current prize of noteriety, what else have they to gain?

  • 11.03.2007 12:59 PM PDT
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Posted by: The Slayer
I shouldn't have to be coaxed into being good, I don't do this for rewards. I find it truly ridiculous that some people want rewards just for being good in their community. It should be a natural thing, not some forced thing to be good. Gah, being good for all the wrong reasons makes me sick. Now I must attend a wedding!

Well, if there were rewards, it would be an incentive for other people to be good as well. There are people who act nice because they are, and then there are people who will because they feel that there is something to gain from it. But like you said, it's being good for the wrong reasons, so I guess there's no point.

  • 11.03.2007 1:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: evilcam
Gz, I'd kill the whole world for you




3-19-07

Posted by: prometheus25
Bad member>punishment
Decent member>no reward
Good member>no reward
Good member for long time>reward

As I've been trying to say, there's nothing to keep long-time, positive members active. I am not saying they will lieave, so don't you dare suggest that. I am saying that there is nothing to encourage them to say. They already won the current prize of noteriety, what else have they to gain?


That reward would be moderatiorship, but it shouldn't be something you strive for. It should be something that just happens.

Not everyone will become a moderator, and same people who you think maybe 'less deserving' will get it. Who are you to decide who gets a reward and who doesn't?

As I said, you shouldn't be here for some reward. What's next, is the lottery bad 'cause you have been playing it for years and haven't won?
Prometheus, get off your high horse

[Edited on 11.03.2007 1:06 PM PDT]

  • 11.03.2007 1:05 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: Gzalzi
Warning, harsh reality/opinions ahead.


Tired of being good? Then go ahead and leave. If you stop being good you will just make the community worse.

If that is going to happen, honestly, I don't think you should stay here. This goes for everyone.

I won't miss you, that's for sure.


That's not harsh at all.

But back to the point. Not picking on you or anything, but your wording shows the lack of value put on accounts. If you truly mean what you say, your suggesting that my account has no worth towards the community, which only encourages me to do bad thigns and hurt people.

  • 11.03.2007 1:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: evilcam
Gz, I'd kill the whole world for you




3-19-07

Posted by: prometheus25
That's not harsh at all.

But back to the point. Not picking on you or anything, but your wording shows the lack of value put on accounts. If you truly mean what you say, your suggesting that my account has no worth towards the community, which only encourages me to do bad thigns and hurt people.


I did imply that it had no worth, that is, if you stopped doing good.

Also, I had it a lot meaner when I put that, but I changed it.

[Edited on 11.03.2007 1:10 PM PDT]

  • 11.03.2007 1:10 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: Gzalzi
That reward would be moderatiorship, but it shouldn't be something you strive for. It should be something that just happens.

Not everyone will become a moderator, and same people who you think maybe 'less deserving' will get it. Who are you to decide who gets a reward and who doesn't?

As I said, you shouldn't be here for some reward. What's next, is the lottery bad 'cause you have been playing it for years and haven't won?
Prometheus, get off your high horse


My word, you've missed the intent of my words. Don't be rude if I havne't been rude to you.

  • 11.03.2007 1:11 PM PDT

Posted by: prometheus25
My word, you've missed the intent of my words.

Well, I guess since he missed the intent of your words, help him out a little. Elaborate on your idea some more since he obviously doesn't understand. I must say I don't quite either, seems like a "circle" race.

[Edited on 11.03.2007 1:16 PM PDT]

  • 11.03.2007 1:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: evilcam
Gz, I'd kill the whole world for you




3-19-07

Posted by: prometheus25
My word, you've missed the intent of my words. Don't be rude if I havne't been rude to you.


You may not have been rude to me, but you have been quite rude and contradictory throughout this thread.

Honestly, I'm tried of it, stop avoiding the real issues just to make yourself look better. Now, I'm going to stop arguing as I'm probably just falling in to a trap to get me banned or something. Dare I say, flame-baiting.

[Edited on 11.03.2007 1:19 PM PDT]

  • 11.03.2007 1:17 PM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

Gzalzi, in reply to your comment about how the a council would do more harm than good, I disagree. I don't think it would cause "Ooooh, look, he's in the counciil" mentality that much. There WOULD be some, but I think it'd be reversable as long as those in the council are capable of appearing to be at the level of the normal user. Being in the council would just be added, willing community responsibility. There shouldn't be any real status or power associated with such. Anyone who would flaunt their minor status as a council member over the heads of others wouldn't deserve to be there, and would be "kicked out."

I want to see something done in the way of a council, but different from the previous Septagon Council. That distinction should be made clear. As I said, I'll put up a theoretical structure later in the week.

And Prometheus, stop attacking. Just be patient, and if someone seems to misinterpret your words, try re-explaining them.

[Edited on 11.03.2007 1:22 PM PDT]

  • 11.03.2007 1:20 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: The Slayer
Posted by: prometheus25
My word, you've missed the intent of my words.

Well, I guess since he missed the intent of your words, help him out a little. Elaborate on your idea some more since he obviously doesn't understand. I must say I don't quite either, seems like a "circle" race.


You're right, repetition should not be synanamous with annoyance.

It's a two-part idea, really...

First, a few hand-selected members are chosen. These fans represent the most ideal Bungie.net behavior. They are given some ability that allows them to stand out in the community. This is the reward for them and any other member that wishes.

Meanwhile...

To the new members, these selectees would stand out above the spam and personal attacks. Instead of trying to out-insult other members, they would be driven in a positive manner.


Through this hypothetical program, old members are encouraged to stay, and new members have something positive, and exremely tangible, to work towards.

  • 11.03.2007 1:29 PM PDT

Devil is Double is Deuce and Joker always trumps Deuce.

Good behavior should be expected, not rewarded.

  • 11.03.2007 2:26 PM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Posted by: MCs Brother
Good behavior should be expected, not rewarded.

Unfortunately, it can't be expected from most if it's not rewarded. If there's no incentive or reason to be good, why bother being good? Apparently the punishments sure don't stop a lot of people.

[Edited on 11.03.2007 2:55 PM PDT]

  • 11.03.2007 2:55 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: MCs Brother
Good behavior should be expected, not rewarded.


Wow, what a deliciously interesting world-view. I think that Machiavelli would disagree with you though. Things often wander into the teleological. And human nature is going against that view as well. Achronos himself has acknowledged the fact that people have a great incentive to be bad members, and little to no reason to be good members. Other than simple altruistic rewards, the good member sees little to no other incentive. The bad member gets to spoil things for others, while getting attention, and as soon as they earn a permaban will just switch to an ALT account. So what does having a long-standing account earn you on B.net? Uh, a linked gamertag maybe? An older "join date"? Nothing substantial. If you don't prescribe to the rules, you are free to do whatever you want while just creating that new B.net login whenever you get permabanned.

Just like the works of Jeremy Bentham and the rational choice model, people will often times weigh the pros and cons of making a decision. Since there is little to no incentive to be a good member, it seems the scales are tipped towards being a bad member. Bad members do not have to abide by the rules and have no real punishment. Currently there are more tangible reasons to be a bad member than a good one.

~B.B.

  • 11.03.2007 3:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: prometheus25
Good member for long time>reward

No it's more like you get people who "know" everything saying, "You suck and whatever you did for the community doesn't matter anymore because we've 'changed'."

Just my two pennies after all the "oh the irony" statements floating around in this thread, lol.

  • 11.03.2007 8:01 PM PDT
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This thread has been taken too widely off of its original focus (If there even was one to begin with).

The OP was about what Shai Hulud though the community has turned into since he left, and this thread turns into a "intellectual converstion" of ranting along with back and forth verbal attacks on one another.

Posted by: Shai Hulud
With that being said, I jump into your flames not with flailing arms, but with a smile on my face saying "I told you so." I am here to embrace your ignorance, if only to better myself and use it against you.

Seems he was right, even after nine full pages. But what have we figured out in those nine pages?
Not much it seems, except that people here like to squabble like birds about their opinions and beliefs.

Posted by: Pezz
My God, so pointless to the OP. This is the best example of "Let's make a thread about the community so it looks like we are intelligent, conscious members!" Do something constructive instead.

Pezz locked a topic for similar reasons that are currently going on in this topic. Why should this topic be remained open an allow more degradeing attitudes between members?

Shai Hulud had stated his views and opinions on the community, and the members have jabbered enough about it.
Move on to something more productive than a verbal class of egos.

Flame me if you will, this topic to "me" is not going anywhere fast. If you don't share my views then don't assault them as others have done that enough to one another in this thread.

[Edited on 11.03.2007 9:45 PM PDT]

  • 11.03.2007 9:31 PM PDT
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The only Twitter I follow. Except yours ;)
The Frozen Minority; Bungie's real underground. The oldest members, the deepest controversy, walking infamy.

^^ Done.

  • 11.03.2007 10:15 PM PDT