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This topic has moved here: Subject: The downward cycle of bungie moderation
  • Subject: The downward cycle of bungie moderation
Subject: The downward cycle of bungie moderation

Just because we're not posting doesn't mean we're not active. If you were to check my last login at any given time you would see that I'm online bungie.net once a day at the very least. We're called ninjas for a reason, and some of us are quieter than others. A better indication of weather moderators are active or not would be their blacklist history, which is something that none of you have access to.

That said, some of the new tools that are going to become available to both moderators and members should help keep the forums a cleaner place. We've also been taking our own measures to try and bring some order to some of the busier forums. It's never an easy thing to pick new moderators, and at this point I don't think there are many members that we could trust with that kind of responsibility. I don't think recruiting more moderators is the answer, not yet anyways.

  • 10.30.2007 11:17 AM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

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~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Qbix, try to see it from his perspective. He essentially built this website. (Although RunningTurtle tries to take most of the credit). He is wary of giving anyone power that could effectively harm "his" website. Mods have a lot of power to control what happens on B.net, and if that power is abused, there are things that can never be returned. Like if threads are deleted for example.

If it was your career to ensure the successful running of a website, you would be very cautious about who you "hand the keys to the kingdom".

~B.B.

I'd imagine some people (like yourself) (and apologies if you don't like me calling you out with this) have gained plenty of trust over the years. Even two or three new moderators should be easy to find. Also, if he hands them out, and someone does end up running rampant with power, he quickly deletes them from existence. I wouldn't imagine some of the really trustworthy members here would just go wild with power or something. All the current moderators didn't. Toast was a rare exception.

[Edited on 10.30.2007 11:22 AM PDT]

  • 10.30.2007 11:19 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: Taken
Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Regardless, the profile you are currently using is not your regular profile. It was started yesterday. So unless you are making the stance that you have been off of B.net since 2005 until yesterday, and if so you arguably have no "right" to discuss this topic, you are still posting on an alt account other than your profile of note. That is my point.

Posted by: The Code of Conduct
Restrict or inhibit any other user from using and enjoying the Communication Services.


You are quoting the Code of Conduct to me? How deliciously ironic. If you are saying that I am "restricting or inhibiting" good luck trying to argue that. If not, I fail to see any legitimate point. Please explain.

~B.B.

  • 10.30.2007 11:20 AM PDT
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And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: Qbix89
I don't really see this issue with trust. It's not like you have to hire two thousand new moderators. Just a few would be fine, and it's not hard to find five to ten trustworthy people on Bnet.


Qbix, try to see it from his perspective. He essentially built this website. (Although RunningTurtle tries to take most of the credit). He is wary of giving anyone power that could effectively harm "his" website. Mods have a lot of power to control what happens on B.net, and if that power is abused, there are things that can never be returned. Like if threads are deleted for example.

If it was your career to ensure the successful running of a website, you would be very cautious about who you "hand the keys to the kingdom".

~B.B.


Yeah yeah, I know. But say the current moderators "hire" a few new moderators?
They spend a lot of time with the community, probably a lot more more than Achronos and runningturtle combined. They talk with several members of the community at a daily basis, so they could just name a few people that they think are suited to become moderators. Achronos trusts his moderators (to some extent), right? So, simple enough, he can ask them to find a few people they think are suited for the job.

And yeah, there are always things at stake, but this has worked out fine in the past, haven't it?

  • 10.30.2007 11:25 AM PDT
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Posted by: Taken
Having alternate accounts aren't against the rules.


Are you sure? :)

If FF is an alt, he went to a lot of trouble making a Gold Account for it, since I played with him in the members vs Mods game...

(17:06:25) (Mr_Mousetrap) Yeah
(17:06:30) (Mr_Mousetrap) or like flavor flav
(17:06:43) (aku) who is flava flav?
(17:06:52) (Mr_Mousetrap) It's Logical Thinking


Oh, shi-!.

Profile deleted due to inactivity from 2005.

And just happened to be re-made today with an extensive knowledge of moderator activity across 06/07. Of course.

  • 10.30.2007 11:27 AM PDT
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Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: Taken
Having alternate accounts aren't against the rules.


Are you sure? :)

If FF is an alt, he went to a lot of trouble making a Gold Account for it, since I played with him in the members vs Mods game...

(17:06:25) (Mr_Mousetrap) Yeah
(17:06:30) (Mr_Mousetrap) or like flavor flav
(17:06:43) (aku) who is flava flav?
(17:06:52) (Mr_Mousetrap) It's Logical Thinking


Oh, shi-!.

Profile deleted due to inactivity from 2005.

And just happened to be re-made today with an extensive knowledge of moderator activity across 06/07. Of course.

Ahh yes because.. errmm "Mr. Mousetrap" is the source of all knowledge. I <3 ignorant members.

Did I say that was my only account? No, that was my ORIGINAL account, in which you asked about. Please show where is it a rule to not have alt. accounts? Because you show me that I'll show you 20 members that should be permabanned.

[Edited on 10.30.2007 11:31 AM PDT]

  • 10.30.2007 11:29 AM PDT

Posted by: SS_Zag1
Just because someone isn't taken care of right away, doesn't mean they never get taken care of.


Much like Zag's mom, you just take a number and wait your turn.

  • 10.30.2007 11:29 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: Qbix89

Yeah yeah, I know. But say the current moderators "hire" a few new moderators?
They spend a lot of time with the community, probably a lot more more than Achronos and runningturtle combined. They talk with several members of the community at a daily basis, so they could just name a few people that they think are suited to become moderators. Achronos trusts his moderators (to some extent), right? So, simple enough, he can ask them to find a few people they think are suited for the job.

And yeah, there are always things at stake, but this has worked out fine in the past, haven't it?


That is part of the process. When the magic time comes, Achronos always goes to his mods to see who they think would make good additions. But regardless of what they say, he has final say on who makes it and who doesn't. What the problem, well not really a problem per se, is that more people with authority means more potential complications.

Achronos could add as many mods as he wants right now. He happens to not want to add any currently. He's busy working on a moderator/user feature on B.net that should help. Part of the reason why he doesn't want to add anymore right now, at least from what I've seen him post, is that moderators are added during slow times in activity, to allow them to get situated. Not during arguably the busiest time in B.net history.

~B.B.

  • 10.30.2007 11:32 AM PDT

but there's no sense crying over every mistake
you just keep on trying until you run out of cake

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: bigdawg6539
Posted by: SS_Zag1
I play Halo 3 for a night and look what I miss..

It sounds like Achronos has some plans in mind to fix this 'crisis', and it sounds like he doesn't trust many people around here. Probably a good idea, too. I've seen some of the more 'respectable' members doing things they shouldn't with alternates and what-not. (Or used to, I guess I haven't seen much of it recently)

If it matters at all, I'd say Berserker and Foman are the best canidates, if new mods were to be selected. They're good guys. ;)

I think these forums are navigable, though. More mods might help, along with the 'new system' that's being put in place. Just because someone isn't taken care of right away, doesn't mean they never get taken care of.



Yeah, I would be alright with Foman, even headed individual. Hopefully he got his AR packet by now. I don't know the other one though.


The other guy is a nub, better left ignored.

~B.B.


Ah, yes, now I remember. Yeah, you get my vote, if nothing else for making that Capcom vs. Marvel "BERSERKER BARRAGE!" noise come on in my head evertime I see your name lol.

  • 10.30.2007 11:33 AM PDT

Instant Message me if yeah want to chat
Aim:baccardinals
Wanna Play send me a Friend Request
GT:baccardinals

Posted by: Achronos
Sketch isn't in charge of matchmaking. Right now, the multiplayer designers in collaboration with test and one of our producers are handling matchmaking. You'll find that they consider all data sources, more than just the Optimatch forums.

And by the way, moderators don't have to post in the public forums to moderate them. A few don't.

I'm also working on a few things to make their lives easier, but that doesn't include more moderators. That is always a last resort, given how hard it is to trust anyone around here.


Then is there a reason they cant explain the decisions that have been made or interact with people? I know i Pm this question but what are other data sources besides Vetoing?

  • 10.30.2007 11:33 AM PDT
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Posted by: atomic weggie
Posted by: SS_Zag1
Just because someone isn't taken care of right away, doesn't mean they never get taken care of.


Much like Zag's mom, you just take a number and wait your turn.

Nothin' beats a good "momma" joke.

  • 10.30.2007 11:34 AM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
And by the way, moderators don't have to post in the public forums to moderate them. A few don't.


Exactly. Want an example? Yoozel. I live only an hour away from the guy. I met him on these forums, he gave me my first, one, and only ban I have ever received, back when I was new in 2003, and we have become pretty good friends since. I know for a fact he logs on almost everyday, almost because he does have a real life and job, and checks the forums. I report threads to him more often than any other mod actually, he just never really posts in them. Chris, stosh, and godsprophet are also others I report threads to often, and all are taken care of. Also TGP, but him least so, seeing as we are in different time zones and all. I've gotten to know each of them pretty well, not as much as yoozel but thats expected with the distance of the internet, and am of the personal opinion that they all moderate very well. Ninjas do not always make themselves made to those they kill.

Never have a I reported anything and it gone unnoticed. I respect every single Mod we have, just for the simple fact that they choose to take time out of their lives, however small or large, to moderate our community and help keep it under control. I say help because the mantle does not fall to their shoulders alone, we all hold a responsibility to ensure the quality of our community.

In critical moments even the very powerful have need of the weakest. - Aesop ~Zeuxis

  • 10.30.2007 11:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: AblativeMeatshld
Posted by: atomic weggie
Posted by: SS_Zag1
Just because someone isn't taken care of right away, doesn't mean they never get taken care of.


Much like Zag's mom, you just take a number and wait your turn.

Nothin' beats a good "momma" joke.

Except creativity and originality..

  • 10.30.2007 11:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: Taken
Ahh yes because.. errmm "Mr. Mousetrap" is the source of all knowledge. I <3 ignorant members.


That bit wasn't directed at you. That was at FF. He'll know who he is.

No, that was my ORIGINAL account, in which you asked about.

I've never used the word original in that context once. I used the word "main". "Taken" is an account obviously created for the purpose of inflammatory, borderline posts. A couple of choice quotes from this thread, for example.

plain suck at moderating. *cough*evilcam, just another fan, Gods Prophet*cough*
most people are just clique following elitist dumbasses.
those kids

And that was just before i started baiting you.

Now. While there might not be a rule explicitly forbidding alt accounts, trolling is forbidden. Using an alt account to troll is no different from using an alt account to avoid a blacklist. All you're doing is pre-empting the BL.

Wow, thats so amazing. I guess because Insert randome name here, says you are hitler you should be banned and hung since that is the ultimate standard of proof.

Awwh, how cute. A straw man.

If you don't know who moustrap is, here's another hint: (17:07:02) (Mr_Mousetrap) I'm talking to him on MSN right now.

[Edited on 10.30.2007 11:41 AM PDT]

  • 10.30.2007 11:37 AM PDT
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And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

I wonder what this new tool is, or these new tools. Something similar to Facebook's poking? "Hold RB to poke bad thread"
Very bad joke put aside. My point was:

When he has, with great success, hired moderators using this method; Why not just to it again?

  • 10.30.2007 11:38 AM PDT
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Posted by: Taken
Posted by: AblativeMeatshld
Posted by: atomic weggie
Posted by: SS_Zag1
Just because someone isn't taken care of right away, doesn't mean they never get taken care of.


Much like Zag's mom, you just take a number and wait your turn.

Nothin' beats a good "momma" joke.

Except creativity and originality..

I would like to shake the hand of whomever pissed in your cereal this morning...

After they wash their hands.

  • 10.30.2007 11:38 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: bigdawg6539

Ah, yes, now I remember. Yeah, you get my vote, if nothing else for making that Capcom vs. Marvel "BERSERKER BARRAGE!" noise come on in my head evertime I see your name lol.


And you get an e-cookie for knowing where my name originates. Two e-cookies for actually spelling "barrage" correctly. I wanted to, but it is too many characters, most people don't notice O.<

Anyways, I appreciate the sentiment gentlemen, but like I said, I really don't want to turn this thread into a popularity contest. You might see me as a good member, and I appreciate that, but if you look through my post history there have been plenty of times I haven't been so nice. Again, I appreciate the vote of confidence, but that is a discussion better left off of the forums.

Can we also just leave the alt-account witch hunt alone? I acknowledge my part in continuing it, but it is not conducive to anything we are trying to discuss.

~B.B.

  • 10.30.2007 11:38 AM PDT
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Posted by: Qbix89
When he has, with great success, hired moderators using this method...


Arguably, the only successful moderating "hiring" was the very first, way back when. All those since then have been full of emo tossmongery and drama.

[Edited on 10.30.2007 11:41 AM PDT]

  • 10.30.2007 11:40 AM PDT

Posted by: Taken
Posted by: AblativeMeatshld
Posted by: atomic weggie
Posted by: SS_Zag1
Just because someone isn't taken care of right away, doesn't mean they never get taken care of.


Much like Zag's mom, you just take a number and wait your turn.

Nothin' beats a good "momma" joke.

Except creativity and originality..


Zag mom jokes never get old.................NEVER!

Besides, it looks like you guys have turned this thread into discussing whether it's appropriate to post on a duel account instead of the original topic.

  • 10.30.2007 11:41 AM PDT
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Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: Taken
Ahh yes because.. errmm "Mr. Mousetrap" is the source of all knowledge. I <3 ignorant members.


That bit wasn't directed at you. That was at FF. He'll know who he is.

No, that was my ORIGINAL account, in which you asked about.

I've never used the word original in that context once. I used the word "main". "Taken" is an account obviously created for the purpose of inflammatory, borderline posts. A couple of choice quotes from this thread, for example.

plain suck at moderating. *cough*evilcam, just another fan, Gods Prophet*cough*
most people are just clique following elitist dumbasses.
those kids

And that was just before i started baiting you.

Now. There might not be a rule explicitly forbidding alt accounts, trolling is forbidden. Using an alt account to troll is no different from using an alt account to avoid a blacklist. All you're doing is pre-empting the BL.

If you really think "those be fightin" flames and that I am actually trying to cause trouble, you have never met a good troll.

The original account WAS my main account then I just created new ones for my Gamertags (I have many) I am not trolling at all, actually YOU would be considered a troll. You run around calling everyone alternate accounts flamebaiting people, which you even admit to in your post. Then you try to pull the "You're a troll" card, when in fact you are doing the same things I am, but you are also baiting other users. So, not only are you a hypocrite trying to derail this topic, but you are a flamebaiter

I'm sorry but you "zomg teh troll" act is tired and played out.

[Edited on 10.30.2007 11:44 AM PDT]

  • 10.30.2007 11:41 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: Qbix89
When he has, with great success, hired moderators using this method...


Arguably, the only successful moderating "hiring" was the very first, way back when. All those since then have been full of emo tossmongery and drama.


Wait...wait. You're saying that giving Shishka mod powers was "successful"?

I kid, I kid.

Actually I miss Shishka. He made me look pleasant.

~B.B.

  • 10.30.2007 11:43 AM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
I'm sure the current moderators have quite a few people in mind that they wouldn't mind seeing hippo-licked. They just go on with business as usual until the time comes to casts lots
~B.B.

Achronos has pretty much shot down any suggestions thrown his way by the moderating staff. At least thats what the voices in my head tell me.

  • 10.30.2007 11:44 AM PDT

but there's no sense crying over every mistake
you just keep on trying until you run out of cake

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: bigdawg6539

Ah, yes, now I remember. Yeah, you get my vote, if nothing else for making that Capcom vs. Marvel "BERSERKER BARRAGE!" noise come on in my head evertime I see your name lol.


And you get an e-cookie for knowing where my name originates. Two e-cookies for actually spelling "barrage" correctly. I wanted to, but it is too many characters, most people don't notice O.<

Anyways, I appreciate the sentiment gentlemen, but like I said, I really don't want to turn this thread into a popularity contest. You might see me as a good member, and I appreciate that, but if you look through my post history there have been plenty of times I haven't been so nice. Again, I appreciate the vote of confidence, but that is a discussion better left off of the forums.

Can we also just leave the alt-account witch hunt alone? I acknowledge my part in continuing it, but it is not conducive to anything we are trying to discuss.

~B.B.


Thank you for the cookies, but the cake was a lie. Or it wasn't? Who knows. But anyways, I don't think you have to be "nice" to be a mod, in fact I think a little grumpiness is needed. But, keeping with your wishes, we will abstain from nominating anyone, nice or no.

  • 10.30.2007 11:45 AM PDT