Bungie.net Community
This topic has moved here: Subject: The downward cycle of bungie moderation
  • Subject: The downward cycle of bungie moderation
Subject: The downward cycle of bungie moderation
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Achronos
I'm also working on a few things to make their lives easier, but that doesn't include more moderators. That is always a last resort, given how hard it is to trust anyone around here.

Geeze... You swipe a couple of credit cards, and yer branded for life... :)

  • 10.30.2007 10:33 AM PDT

but there's no sense crying over every mistake
you just keep on trying until you run out of cake

Posted by: Achronos
Sketch isn't in charge of matchmaking. Right now, the multiplayer designers in collaboration with test and one of our producers are handling matchmaking. You'll find that they consider all data sources, more than just the Optimatch forums.

And by the way, moderators don't have to post in the public forums to moderate them. A few don't.

I'm also working on a few things to make their lives easier, but that doesn't include more moderators. That is always a last resort, given how hard it is to trust anyone around here.

Posted by: baccardinals
Sketch is head of matchmaking, they never renewed Ninjas Contract, my point is very since he took over hes not in the fourms and hes made the dumbest decisions ever. At least Ninja posted in the fourms an interacted and Moderated that fourm. He explained everything to us and now there is nothing, no reasoning, nothing at all about Halo 3. Just in the weekly updates that sayh thank you every week. So far the mods and bungie itself has been pretty sad. Halo 3 seemed Rushed and bungie liked the mods have been very quiet



Now, I haven't been a member long, but have there really been that many rampant mods? IDK, I guess it just seems kinda hard to believe that a group of people given (what I would consider to be) an honor, and then screw it up by taking it too far. On the other hand, as a previous thread states, power does corrupt, so I guess it certainly can happen. It just feels weird to me, that adding mods is the last resort. Doesn't roll off the tongue easily.


EDIT:spelling

[Edited on 10.30.2007 10:35 AM PDT]

  • 10.30.2007 10:34 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: Achronos
...given how hard it is to trust anyone around here.


So why don't you "train" new ones? Companies train new employees, the military trains new recruits; what would make anyone think that moderators, although they operate in a virtual community, would require anything different?

In my opinion, the correct way about selecting individuals for future modship would be those who at least show some degree of interest and integrity. Give them some time to learn the rules, then slowly give them some authority. I'd personally start with the ability to lock threads, then slowly lead up to temp. banning. Finally, they'd get the full title of "Forum Ninja" and the orange text.

The whole period taking about two months, it'd weed out, in my opinion, those that want to help the community and those that simply want to have the special text and title.

  • 10.30.2007 10:44 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Flavor Flav
Do you mind telling us about any of these tools

I'm hoping for a button that will deliver a large shock to the offending poster. I bet if he got that to work, he could sell the idea for billions.

Having worked phone tech-support, I know I longers for one of those... :)

  • 10.30.2007 10:46 AM PDT

but there's no sense crying over every mistake
you just keep on trying until you run out of cake

Posted by: Flavor Flav
Posted by: bigdawg6539
Now, I haven't been a member long, but have there really been that many rampant mods? IDK, I guess it just seems kinda hard to believe that a group of people given (what I would consider to be) an honor, and then screw it up by taking it too far. On the other hand, as a previous thread states, power does corrupt, so I guess it certainly can happen. It just feels weird to me, that adding mods is the last resort. Doesn't roll off the tongue easily.


EDIT:spelling


Well, while I dont feel like bringing up VII Toast, lets just say he went as far as to destroy private groups and ask minors for nude photos. People can be very vendictive.


Wow. Yeah, that's pretty bad. I can certainly see where thay COULD do some pretty messed up stuff if they wanted; I just didn't think it actually happened to that extent. If that's been the previous experience, I can see why Achronos is a little cagey about bringing on new people. I wonder how the screening process works if people like that are getting through (no criticism here, just wondering aloud).

EDIT: and to prometheus, I think it's a question of time and (at least in Achronos' place) money. Plus, it's really kind of an arbitrary position, based a lot on judgment calls, and it's hard to train that kind of thing. MHO only.

[Edited on 10.30.2007 10:49 AM PDT]

  • 10.30.2007 10:47 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Flavor Flav
Well, while I dont feel like bringing up VII Toast, lets just say he went as far as to destroy private groups and ask minors for nude photos. People can be very vendictive.


More alts.

How fun.

  • 10.30.2007 10:52 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: Flavor Flav
Well, while I dont feel like bringing up VII Toast, lets just say he went as far as to destroy private groups and ask minors for nude photos. People can be very vendictive.


More alts.

How fun.

Having alternate accounts aren't against the rules. If that was the case A LOT of "regulars" on the forum will be banned.

[Edited on 10.30.2007 10:57 AM PDT]

  • 10.30.2007 10:57 AM PDT

Posted by: Achronos

And by the way, moderators don't have to post in the public forums to moderate them. A few don't.



That is always a last resort, given how hard it is to trust anyone around here.


I think these two things go hand in hand Achronos. Trust is attained by the moderating staff getting down in the trenches, interacting with the members, getting to know the members and being involved in all the forums. Not by coming down from their ivory towers, locking or moving a thread and then disappearing without a post.

Part of the reason it's so hard for you guys to trust people is because most of the mods aren't involved in the forums on a day to day basis. Therefore, when it's time to consider maybe taking on new ninjas, no one has any suggestions because they're not around to get to know the community.

I understand that moderating is a volunteer job, and there's no way to make people be more involved. I'm just stating why I think trust is getting harder and harder to attain for you guys.

  • 10.30.2007 10:59 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: bigdawg6539
EDIT: and to prometheus, I think it's a question of time and (at least in Achronos' place) money. Plus, it's really kind of an arbitrary position, based a lot on judgment calls, and it's hard to train that kind of thing. MHO only.


There's no money involved in moderatorship.

And how is it hard to train? Achronos doesn't have to do it directly; simply keeping tabs on them through the Master Forum Ninjas would suffice, no? Making sure they know the forum rules, and aren't prone to irrational behavior, should be satisfactory. Employers know new trainees will start relaxing their behavior once they get comfortable in their position. This is why they are strict and instill good behavior in the beginning of employement.

  • 10.30.2007 10:59 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: elmicker
Posted by: Flavor Flav
Well, while I dont feel like bringing up VII Toast, lets just say he went as far as to destroy private groups and ask minors for nude photos. People can be very vendictive.


More alts.

How fun.

If FF is an alt, he went to a lot of trouble making a Gold Account for it, since I played with him in the members vs Mods game...

  • 10.30.2007 10:59 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: Taken

Having alternate accounts aren't against the rules. If that was the case A LOT of "regulars" on the forum will be banned.


Of course, the person posting on an Alt. account is for some reason quite aware of the "legality" of using Alts.

They are not specifically against the rules unless you are using an alternate account in order to avoid a blacklisting. However, the use of alt accounts make people rather wary of your integrity and your intentions. Something that Elm was commenting on. I agree. If you feel you have something important enough to add to this conversation/thread, do it on your profile of note and stand behind it.


*edit* To Weggie: I'm sure the current moderators have quite a few people in mind that they wouldn't mind seeing hippo-licked. They just go on with business as usual until the time comes to casts lots (HA! You aren't the only one who can make vague Biblical references!!)
~B.B.

[Edited on 10.30.2007 11:06 AM PDT]

  • 10.30.2007 11:02 AM PDT

Thats Right I Was Banned For Watching The Webcams Too Much!Combat Arms - X647"He who'd walk a mile just to hold an empty hand, knows what it means to be a wealthy man."
Skin This Place Alive...

Posted by: Achronos
given how hard it is to trust anyone around here.


you dont trust me?

after all we have been through...


now you don't get that engraved toaster I bought you for next year.

  • 10.30.2007 11:03 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: Taken

Having alternate accounts aren't against the rules. If that was the case A LOT of "regulars" on the forum will be banned.


Of course, the person posting on an Alt. account is for some reason quite aware of the "legality" of using Alts.

They are not specifically against the rules unless you are using an alternate account in order to avoid a blacklisting. However, the use of alt accounts make people rather wary of your integrity and your intentions. Something that Elm was commenting on. I agree. If you feel you have something important enough to add to this conversation/thread, do it on your profile of note and stand behind it.

~B.B.

Profile deleted due to inactivity from 2005.

  • 10.30.2007 11:04 AM PDT

but there's no sense crying over every mistake
you just keep on trying until you run out of cake

Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: bigdawg6539
EDIT: and to prometheus, I think it's a question of time and (at least in Achronos' place) money. Plus, it's really kind of an arbitrary position, based a lot on judgment calls, and it's hard to train that kind of thing. MHO only.


There's no money involved in moderatorship.

And how is it hard to train? Achronos doesn't have to do it directly; simply keeping tabs on them through the Master Forum Ninjas would suffice, no? Making sure they know the forum rules, and aren't prone to irrational behavior, should be satisfactory. Employers know new trainees will start relaxing their behavior once they get comfortable in their position. This is why they are strict and instill good behavior in the beginning of employement.


No money, except for Achronos. He's a Bungie employee, that why I added that "(at least in Achronos' place)" bit. I am ( I know,I know) assuming that keeping tabs on them is what he does already. And while what you say is valid in regards to instilling good behavior at the get-go, sometimes it doesn't stick, which is why he has to keep tabs on them. And as far as the actual training, his schedule is pretty full I'm sure, but if you want it done right... And again, so much of what they do can't be put in a manual. They have so many oddball instances that have to be made on a judgement call, that they have to have faith in the individual mods to do the right thing. But as was said before, trust is earned, not given. IDK, I guess there is no "perfect" solution, like the rest of life.

  • 10.30.2007 11:05 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

I don't really see this issue with trust. It's not like you have to hire two thousand new moderators. Just a few would be fine, and it's not hard to find five to ten trustworthy people on Bnet.

  • 10.30.2007 11:08 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Qbix89
I don't really see this issue with trust. It's not like you have to hire two thousand new moderators. Just a few would be fine, and it's not hard to find five to ten trustworthy people on Bnet.

Actually yes it is.

  • 10.30.2007 11:09 AM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

I play Halo 3 for a night and look what I miss..

It sounds like Achronos has some plans in mind to fix this 'crisis', and it sounds like he doesn't trust many people around here. Probably a good idea, too. I've seen some of the more 'respectable' members doing things they shouldn't with alternates and what-not. (Or used to, I guess I haven't seen much of it recently)

If it matters at all, I'd say Berserker and Foman are the best canidates, if new mods were to be selected. They're good guys. ;)

I think these forums are navigable, though. More mods might help, along with the 'new system' that's being put in place. Just because someone isn't taken care of right away, doesn't mean they never get taken care of.

  • 10.30.2007 11:09 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: Taken
Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Posted by: Taken

Having alternate accounts aren't against the rules. If that was the case A LOT of "regulars" on the forum will be banned.


Of course, the person posting on an Alt. account is for some reason quite aware of the "legality" of using Alts.

They are not specifically against the rules unless you are using an alternate account in order to avoid a blacklisting. However, the use of alt accounts make people rather wary of your integrity and your intentions. Something that Elm was commenting on. I agree. If you feel you have something important enough to add to this conversation/thread, do it on your profile of note and stand behind it.

~B.B.

Profile deleted due to inactivity from 2005.


Regardless, the profile you are currently using is not your regular profile. It was started yesterday. So unless you are making the stance that you have been off of B.net since 2005 until yesterday, and if so you arguably have no "right" to discuss this topic, you are still posting on an alt account other than your profile of note. That is my point.

Forgive the digression. Anyways, I still think the most important part of this is how to keep the morale of the current Mods up, so we don't have more jump ship. In my time here at B.net, I've seen plenty of mods resign, but it really wasn't until recently that they started resigning because of the "workload".

~B.B.

  • 10.30.2007 11:11 AM PDT

but there's no sense crying over every mistake
you just keep on trying until you run out of cake

Posted by: SS_Zag1
I play Halo 3 for a night and look what I miss..

It sounds like Achronos has some plans in mind to fix this 'crisis', and it sounds like he doesn't trust many people around here. Probably a good idea, too. I've seen some of the more 'respectable' members doing things they shouldn't with alternates and what-not. (Or used to, I guess I haven't seen much of it recently)

If it matters at all, I'd say Berserker and Foman are the best canidates, if new mods were to be selected. They're good guys. ;)

I think these forums are navigable, though. More mods might help, along with the 'new system' that's being put in place. Just because someone isn't taken care of right away, doesn't mean they never get taken care of.



Yeah, I would be alright with Foman, even headed individual. Hopefully he got his AR packet by now. I don't know the other one though.

  • 10.30.2007 11:12 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: Qbix89
I don't really see this issue with trust. It's not like you have to hire two thousand new moderators. Just a few would be fine, and it's not hard to find five to ten trustworthy people on Bnet.


Qbix, try to see it from his perspective. He essentially built this website. (Although RunningTurtle tries to take most of the credit). He is wary of giving anyone power that could effectively harm "his" website. Mods have a lot of power to control what happens on B.net, and if that power is abused, there are things that can never be returned. Like if threads are deleted for example.

If it was your career to ensure the successful running of a website, you would be very cautious about who you "hand the keys to the kingdom".

~B.B.

  • 10.30.2007 11:15 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: BerserkerBarage
Regardless, the profile you are currently using is not your regular profile. It was started yesterday. So unless you are making the stance that you have been off of B.net since 2005 until yesterday, and if so you arguably have no "right" to discuss this topic, you are still posting on an alt account other than your profile of note. That is my point.

Posted by: The Code of Conduct
Restrict or inhibit any other user from using and enjoying the Communication Services.

  • 10.30.2007 11:16 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Posted by: bigdawg6539
Posted by: SS_Zag1
I play Halo 3 for a night and look what I miss..

It sounds like Achronos has some plans in mind to fix this 'crisis', and it sounds like he doesn't trust many people around here. Probably a good idea, too. I've seen some of the more 'respectable' members doing things they shouldn't with alternates and what-not. (Or used to, I guess I haven't seen much of it recently)

If it matters at all, I'd say Berserker and Foman are the best canidates, if new mods were to be selected. They're good guys. ;)

I think these forums are navigable, though. More mods might help, along with the 'new system' that's being put in place. Just because someone isn't taken care of right away, doesn't mean they never get taken care of.



Yeah, I would be alright with Foman, even headed individual. Hopefully he got his AR packet by now. I don't know the other one though.


The other guy is a nub, better left ignored.

~B.B.

  • 10.30.2007 11:17 AM PDT