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This topic has moved here: Subject: New rule idea, a way of combating elitism
  • Subject: New rule idea, a way of combating elitism
Subject: New rule idea, a way of combating elitism

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: PubIic Enemy
...elitism promotes inequality.


While most forms will, it doesn't have to. There are plenty of ad hoc programs that have been labeled as "elitism" that show strong potential towards helping the community.

Of course, very few people are willing to support an idea that they don't have a good chance of being accepted into; the upper tier of this web community would need to initiate the idea as an executive decision. There alone lies the problem.

[Edited on 11.02.2007 10:34 AM PDT]

  • 11.02.2007 10:29 AM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

.

[Edited on 11.02.2007 2:49 PM PDT]

  • 11.02.2007 10:37 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Ugh, I'm really tired of complaints about elitism. That word just makes me mad, and everyone uses it here.

It's not elitism. It's arrogance. The people showing this king of behavior use join date to try and give themselves leverage over people they are arguing with. Join date does not constitute a particular group of people, nor does join date matter to these arrogant people unless they have the older join date. Someone comparing join date with someone else will only mention join date if that can help them win the argument. If this member was an elitist, he'd mention join date regardless of whether or not he was the more experienced member, and he wouldn't flame members who had an older join date. This is obviously not true. It's just arrogance. Using anything to gain the upper hand in the argument.

Which means that it won't stop there. If you ban people for trying to use join date to get the upper hand, they'll just use something else, and probably end up flaming more.

  • 11.02.2007 10:42 AM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Posted by: CAVX
It's not elitism. It's arrogance.

I don't usually say this, but QFT.

Custom titles, avatars, member bonuses, and join dates wouldn't cause elitism. Arrogance of the member would. And any member who would use such things as a weapon against others should be immediately stripped of said weapon. If someone uses something on their account to say "I'm better than you", they should have their shiny medal taken away.

Not trying to go off-topic, let's take a look at the Webcam MVP title that some of the guys have from their efforts with the webcam games. Do they hold that over people and brag about it? No! And if they did, I can take one guess as to where that title would go.

As for join dates specifically; a perma-banned 2003 account (say, if a person were saying "I'm from 2003, so I'm better than you.") is still a perma-banned account. That would successfully strip that member of their trophy. Of course, someone like that would just come back with their ego in hand, talking about how great they are because they're from way back then, regardless of their join date on the account they're using. That's the arrogance CAVX is talking about here.

Arrogant people will be arrogant people. You can't do a ton about that except further enforce all the rules already in place for arrogant jerks.

  • 11.02.2007 10:51 AM PDT
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Posted by: PubIic Enemy
I HAVE A SECOND ACCOUNT IT ISNT BANNED IT IS GANGSTUH FELON

Something does not seem right?
Scroll down to the middle of that page see why.

Either its a good thing you've change this much, or I'm just confusing myself over all of this?

[Edited on 11.02.2007 10:59 AM PDT]

  • 11.02.2007 10:58 AM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Posted by: PubIic Enemy
Let me get this straight, people on these forums shouldnt be punished for their wrongdoings because they will just come back? By that logic we should throw away the rules, the mods, and just let people do whatever, because they will just come back and do it differently. I'm sorry, but I dont agree.

Yeah, it sounded like that. That's not what I meant.

Some of the arrogant jerks will come back, even after you strip them of their medal. For the most part, though, the rules we already have in place about harassment and abuse of join date and what-not, take care of most the bad stuff. Of course, if someone wants to make a point, (even if it's moot) they'll continue to come back time and time again. Those kind of people you just have to deal with as they come, and no new rules will change much of how it's already being enforced.

My main point though is that these things don't cause elitism, it's the arrogance of the member that chooses to use them to support himself in an argument.

  • 11.02.2007 11:07 AM PDT
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Edit: Zag explained it better.

[Edited on 11.02.2007 11:08 AM PDT]

  • 11.02.2007 11:08 AM PDT
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Posted by: PubIic Enemy

Oh no, I was banned over a YEAR ago. This is the exact thing I was talking about.
Let me avoid the points entirely to sling mud.

I would like to ask you some serious questions. Does this at all disprove any of my points? Does it have any value to the topic? Does it serve as anything other than flamebait? The answer to all of these is NO. Its completly pointless to anyone other than idiots who will judge you by a thread that is over a year old, instead of the content currently presented and the topic at hand.

I'm not flaming you, as you've edited your post a little, but other users I'm sure will flame me for the link you posted, and my actions from over a year ago and thats pretty sad.

Thank you for not flamming.
I guess you could also say that you have come a long way from what was in those post.
You are a better person from back then, but others may or may not agree.
Oh well I guess, people have opinions too :P

Back to the original topic :P
I think they did make one step to fixing some of the eliteism a long while back when they took out the post count.
Maybe should they do the same for join date, or some other solutions perhaps.

[Edited on 11.02.2007 11:10 AM PDT]

  • 11.02.2007 11:09 AM PDT
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Talk to the Soul | ~B.B. | Know Your Duardo |  | Hero | ISFJ | 77135 | 94371

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me."

Posted by: El Roboto
Posted by: PubIic Enemy

Oh no, I was banned over a YEAR ago. This is the exact thing I was talking about.
Let me avoid the points entirely to sling mud.

I would like to ask you some serious questions. Does this at all disprove any of my points? Does it have any value to the topic? Does it serve as anything other than flamebait? The answer to all of these is NO. Its completly pointless to anyone other than idiots who will judge you by a thread that is over a year old, instead of the content currently presented and the topic at hand.

I'm not flaming you, as you've edited your post a little, but other users I'm sure will flame me for the link you posted, and my actions from over a year ago and thats pretty sad.

If you remember, the join date was under the avatar in the Old-New hotness.. Achronos then took that away as well and moved it into our profiles.
Thank you for not flamming.
I guess you could also say that you have come a long way from what was in those post.
You are a better person from back then, but others may or may not agree.
Oh well I guess, people have opinions too :P

Back to the original topic :P
I think they did make one step to fixing some of the eliteism a long while back when they took out the post count.
Maybe should they do the same for join date, or some other solutions perhaps.

  • 11.02.2007 11:19 AM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Posted by: PubIic Enemy
Which is why I am not for the removal of join dates. I simply think a specific rule could help in the same way a specific rule about the word noob helped, when it was previously EVERYWHERE. I personally think that if they throw out a specific rule and directly enforce it, the results will come quickly, and will be long lasting.

It's lessened, but it's not gone, by any means.

Didn't you say earlier that you're new here and have no idea how the moderators go about their work here? You should stop flipping between time periods. You're either an old member who's been around, or you're a new one who knows little to nothing. At least make up your mind of which part you're trying to play. I don't care which, but you are contradicting yourself a tad.

A rule would not fix the problem. People like breaking rules. It makes them feel tough. :D

[Edited on 11.02.2007 11:23 AM PDT]

  • 11.02.2007 11:21 AM PDT

Go Chiefs

Posted by: twinkiemaker
Some members take it as a point of pride that they still have their original account still in use. I dont trust second accounts... period. A second account means one thing - that you other account is banned or has been perma-banned.

Not necessarily. This is my second account because I got a new gamertag and wanted to link it here. My old bnet username was being used for my first Live ID so I had to create a second. That and I killed people in Zanzibar and didn't want to be found....(I keed, I keed). Just wanted to point out that there are legit reasons for having a second account.

Posted by: twinkiemaker
These threads are annoying.

Couldn't agree more.

  • 11.02.2007 11:29 AM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

.

[Edited on 11.02.2007 2:49 PM PDT]

  • 11.02.2007 11:51 AM PDT

Go Chiefs

You want to know what would help? Lead by example. Be representative of the type of community you want this to be. Completely ignore trolls and a-holes. Alert Ninjas if necessary. That's all you or I can do.

For Bungie's part, they need to instill some type of positive feedback system. Right now the only reenforcement members get is negative. Just like training a dog, this will only teach them what not to do. It doesn't encourage good behavior. Bungie needs to find a way to reward people for good behavior/good participation.

Here's an idea, how about a gold star (figuratively speaking) for the users that have never been banned? Just show something under a person's avatar. That would encourage people to behave. Once you get banned it goes away, forever.

Or user feedback. Good posts could be rated by other users. If the post is helpful the author gets good rep (just like XBL). Bad rep isn't seen so there is no encouraging people to be "bad." Only reward the good posts.

There you go.

  • 11.02.2007 12:04 PM PDT

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

.

[Edited on 11.02.2007 2:52 PM PDT]

  • 11.02.2007 12:14 PM PDT

Skiptrace™ Sponsor.

Yeah fine, whatever.

  • 11.02.2007 12:19 PM PDT
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If I flame anyone for being new, its because they broke 1 or several basic rules. Usually though I'll start by telling them that and then if they continue to do it I flame away. I've never really thought of using joining date as a basis for attack. Thats kinda pointless.

  • 11.02.2007 12:19 PM PDT