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Subject: Morals and values
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You make money (sometimes hundreds of thousands in cash prizes) going to tournaments, gain worldwide attention, etc.

  • 12.17.2004 11:10 AM PDT
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This could be an interesting topic, and would be better suited for the off-topic forum, The Flood. Some would tell you that you'd get a more intelligent response in general down there. ;)

  • 12.17.2004 11:11 AM PDT
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Yeah, this is definetly a Flood topic.

Still, when questions like this are asked, there's always that age-old answer, at least when they're playing video games, they're not _actually_ on the streets hanging out with a gangs. Say what you might, most through-and-through gamers typically aren't gang-leaders and actually just end up spending most their time at home.

  • 12.17.2004 11:38 AM PDT
Subject: Morals and values
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I am a teacher and part of our job is to instill in children the right values. Based on the reports I have seen on "Good Morning America," there is a plethora of violence, sex, and immoral activities. Are we teaching our children that killing is okay, prostitution is a great occupation, and stealing is right? Do you think that you are perpetuating the problems of this world by buying/playing these games (if you are 17 and under)? I am not on here to bash videogame playing, but simply to find out why children under the age of 17 are being exposed to this level of immoral content. What are the benefits other than hand-eye coordination? Comments welcomed.

  • 12.17.2004 11:07 AM PDT
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Posted by: senorita
I am a teacher and part of our job is to instill in children the right values. Based on the reports I have seen on "Good Morning America," there is a plethora of violence, sex, and immoral activities. Are we teaching our children that killing is okay, prostitution is a great occupation, and stealing is right? Do you think that you are perpetuating the problems of this world by buying/playing these games (if you are 17 and under)? I am not on here to bash videogame playing, but simply to find out why children under the age of 17 are being exposed to this level of immoral content. What are the benefits other than hand-eye coordination? Comments welcomed.


If we follow this logic then we should be banned from watching politicians, and news. Look at Bernard Kerik, How about Dick Chenney and Haliburton. maybe Bill Clinton and Monica or the Chandra Leavey controversy. I think there are enough "role models" in our government that. you must ask yourself are these people "Are we teaching our children that killing is okay, prostitution is a great occupation, and stealing is right?"

Not to mention the blood and violence shown on the nightly news. Iraq has increased the ratings.

Fact is Video games ARE rated and the industry IS regulating itself. They do a better job than the movies or recording industry.

As a teachers I expect you to get your facts straight and not believe everything you here from a politician that wants to get re-elected.

The September, 2000, FTC Report described our industry’s overall self-regulatory program as “the most comprehensive of the three industry systems studied by the Commission” and that it recognized that “it is widely used by industry members and has been revised repeatedly to address new challenges, developments, and concerns regarding the practices of our members.” The FTC also pointed out that quite the opposite of standing by idly, we have been aggressive in seeking compliance with our standards. As it put it, “to its credit, the IDSA has taken several steps to encourage industry members to comply with” the industry’s various ratings and advertising requirements.



· In January, 2001, IDSA continued its efforts to broaden awareness of the rating system through outreach to major medical organizations. IDSA sent letters to the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Nurses Association, the American Academy of Pediatrics, and the American Medical Association asking them to “work with us” to expand ESRB educational efforts.







· In March, 2001, the IDSA Board of Directors adopted a series of explicit guidelines to govern the marketing of Mature rated games to persons under 17 years old. Among other things, these guidelines prohibit the marketing of M rated games in magazines where 45% or more of the readers are under 17 and on TV shows where 35% or more of the viewers are under 17. We believe the adoption of these guidelines is unprecedented.



· In May, 2001, ESRB released a new PSA featuring New York Yankees’ All-Star Derek Jeter urging parents to “check the ratings” before they buy video and computer games. This PSA is airing in retailers around the country, and on TV outlets.


"

  • 12.17.2004 12:00 PM PDT
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Morals and values vary greatly between individuals. I believe that you should not be pressing your morals on someone who does not hold those same "standards".

Monkey see monkey doo ...doo and then throw it at you..

If it is 'bad' or 'immoral' then that is probably the reason they are doing it.

EDIT: Young people are the "target audience". Mass media is in control here.

[Edited on 12/17/2004 12:27:51 PM]

  • 12.17.2004 12:26 PM PDT
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Good job with that water thing. Yeah, really though. If a kid plays video games that doesn't mean that he's going to kill someone. Video games are harmless. It's up to the parents to teach kids right and wrong. If they don't then problems occor.

  • 12.17.2004 12:28 PM PDT
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Well for me personally, I know what I consider crossing a boundry, and I know what is not. Which is why, I hate censorship and forced rating system. I know, what I can handle and what I deem appropriate. On the same token, while I may watch a violent murder or sex scene on T.V. I certainly will not go out and kill someone or -blam!- someone, etc. Because I saw it on T.V. we are not monkeys, the media does not control what we think, we make our own choices separate to the thoughts, wishes, or reasoning of others.

  • 12.17.2004 12:29 PM PDT
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Let me rephrase - Mass media is higly influential. No one controls what you think but you. That is a fairly obvious statement. You will see a report on murder before you'll see a report on say smog or .....can't think right now....negative visuals can lead to negative actions.

"Some children died the other day
We fed machines and then we prayed
Puked up and down in morbid faith
You should have seen the ratings that day" B.W.

  • 12.17.2004 12:37 PM PDT
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Pretty much waht FS said and the fact is that not everyone that plays games goes out and kills someone because they saw it in a game.Those are just excuses people make to not put in bad parenting or traumatic life experiences.So although it might have killing and what not it's not always the games fault.Not to mention all the fun you could have at a LAN party.

  • 12.17.2004 12:37 PM PDT
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I find this to be a very interesting topic, and have often talked about it once before. It is agreeable that there are defining circumstances that show that certain people shouldn't play certain games. Who should be the ones to decide who can play what. Aside from people who are over 18, who are supposed to make their own decisions, parents are the ones that should determin what their child or teen can play.

I'm not going against the rating system, in fact i find it necessary for mature games, but there always needs to be the option for parents to make the final decisions. Nobody else should be able to step in and make it illegal for people under a certain age to play mature games. This is because that age is not the only factor in making these decisions. There are many things the parent should thing about for buying their child a game. Not just about the content of the game, the rating system is ment to help with that, but things about the child. Does he/she act mature? Do they know the differences between reality and fantasy?

I myself am under 18, but my parents trust me enough to let me play mature games. However, the problem also comes from the parents. Many parents are weak minded and mis-informed and they don't even use the tools like the rating system that are already given to them. If the child wants the game, they will often buy the game for them without even looking at it.

Even so, I don't think video games actually instill violence in children, and I think that if anyone goes and does something stupid or violent that they saw in a video game, or any form of entertainment for that matter, that there was something wrong with that person to begin with.

I just hate it when people try to tack a general solution to a large scale problem, such as banning certain games or movies. Usually, this method does not work, because there are too many variables. What kind of enviroment did they grow up in? What were their parents like? Were they abused? Etc, etc, etc... So all of this affects a persons behaviour, and it is necessary to find specific solutions for the problems.

Whew! That was quite alot! Anyway, I love to share my opinion about topics like this, being that I am so passionate about video games. I hope that you find my input valuable and that other people have read this beast as well.

  • 12.17.2004 12:40 PM PDT

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But don't think that the Gaming industry isn't above some of that political shadiness. In 1993, Senator Joe Lieberman got about 70% of the information for his lawsuit (the one which spawned the ESRB that we know today) from Howard Lincoln. for those who don't know, Howard Lincoln was the Attorney for NoA. Now for some reason, the lawsuit which attacked games for violence and gratuitous sex, named many games from Nintendo's biggest competitor Sega. Two of the most popular in the list were Mortal Kombat and Night Trap.

Mortal Kombat was on both systems, and unrated on the Super NES might I add, and rated by Sega's in house group - the VRC. But they went into the aspect of unlocking the blood and gore effects on the Sega Genesis (Nevermind that the child could go to the arcade or even Wal-Mart and see the same game with even MORE realistic graphics at the arcade for a quarter. Night trap was cited for violence and -blam!- content, even though the violence was cartoon at best (trapdoors and sliding staircases, on par with Scooby-Doo and the -blam!-ity, well -- I've seen my grandma wear more risque outfits than a frilly nightgown. For some reason, Sega's biggest sellers were the main target of the investigation, even though they actually had the ratings system in place to guide parents.

Fishy that Nintendo never got formally charged?? Or was Lincoln buddying up with Lieberman because of Sega of America leading so much in sales? Or did Leiberman never really look into them because he liked the word Nintendo? I'll let you decide.

You can't blame a company that wants to express their vision and entertain, for a parent's inability to gauge what their children are capable of handling. Most of the parents that complain heavily are the ones that are too busy to pay attention to what Junior is doing, and relegate the child-raising to the TV set. These ratings are there for a reason, and if you choose, as a parent, to ignore those ratings, then you forfeit your right to complain that your child is playing an inappropriate game. It's an irresponsible act on your part for allowing the child to have it, not the game company.

Might I add, that it's very responsible of you for coming onto a gaming website to begin your search for information and opinions, and hopefully you will get a broad range of opinions here. I respect your profession, and I am quite glad that more people in authoritative positions are finally taking more of an interest in the touchy subjects.

I hope the thread isn't deemed political, and I'd like to ask the moderators to simply edit those posts that tend to cross the line rather than the whole thread, because the information learned herin will be extremely beneficial.

Even some of the -- less educated posters -- can be of benefit, so you can see multiple sides of the general opinions.
-Jim

  • 12.17.2004 12:42 PM PDT
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There are so many scapegoats, so many fingers pointing....


P.S.- I hope we all don't get blacklisted for this...

  • 12.17.2004 12:48 PM PDT
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Morals simply don't work. Where do you draw the line? I hate them.

  • 12.17.2004 1:04 PM PDT
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Posted by: senorita
I am a teacher and part of our job is to instill in children the right values.


ok first off who are you to instil your values on anothers child?You are a teacher not a priest,mentor,legal guardian,parent so you do not have the right to instil what you call "the right values".

Based on the reports I have seen on "Good Morning America," there is a plethora of violence, sex, and immoral activities.

Welcome to the real world i hope you will enjoy your stay.

Are we teaching our children that killing is okay, prostitution is a great occupation, and stealing is right?

No

Do you think that you are perpetuating the problems of this world by buying/playing these games (if you are 17 and under)?

No we are not weak minded monkeys like you thingk we are.It is up to the parents to decide what there children will be playing.Plus there have been studys that have proven that there is no co-relation between clicking a mouse to going out pulling out a gun and shooting someone.

I am not on here to bash videogame playing,


Lookie here weve got a bigot in our midst.

but simply to find out why children under the age of 17 are being exposed to this level of immoral content. What are the benefits other than hand-eye coordination?

Simply because there parents thingk there children are mature enoghf to see these images.you cannot protect children from these things forever.And there are no benefits other than hand eye quardnation other than a period of fun

Comments welcomed.

You would have goten them anyway.

  • 12.17.2004 2:10 PM PDT

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No need to be abusive -- The topic starter is simply a little misguided by mass media, not deserving of an attack.

You're supposed to help educate, not abuse.

  • 12.17.2004 2:50 PM PDT
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A man once died trying to protect his values.

moral of story: values suck.

  • 12.17.2004 2:52 PM PDT
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video games are my personal release. I am one of the least violent people. I never get in fights I never steal. I play some of the most violent video games like manhunt and GTA.

  • 12.17.2004 3:05 PM PDT

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senorita apparently abandoned her thread.

It's a pity too -- I think it had potential.

  • 12.17.2004 8:28 PM PDT
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Posted by: GameJunkieJim
senorita apparently abandoned her thread.

It's a pity too -- I think it had potential.


After reading all the posts and seeing how many intelligent responses were submitted, your statement, GameJunkieJim, is only too true.

  • 12.17.2004 8:39 PM PDT
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Entertainment throughout recorded history has included evil acts. What kinds of conflicts would stories contain if everyone did the right thing? Look at classic literature--Romeo and Juliet features underage sex, murder and suicide. The Oddysey has more brutal killings than any video game I've ever played.

The point isn't that killing, stealing, prostitution or any of that is RIGHT. The point is that it's part of a fictional medium of entertainment. The lessons we take away from stories should be formed through discussion with people wiser than ourselves... and in most cases, that should be parents.

  • 12.17.2004 8:48 PM PDT
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Good point.

No one protests books for violence/sex/profanity, yet some books have extremely graphic descriptions of violence and sex in them, as well as enough harsh profanities to last several peoples' lifetimes.

It's because everything else is a visual/audio media, and the images/noises are more easily "scorched into your memory," so to say.

Even though senorita has left, we can still keep this as a great discussion.

*sigh* If only something like this could be possible in New Mombasa...then there'd be hope for everyone.

  • 12.17.2004 9:00 PM PDT

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