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  • Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
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I can only come up with two theories why I leveled so much faster then you.

1) Do to your higher win % and the conservative nature of the system you actually leveled slower to this point.

2) As far as I could tell you partied with the same 2 friends for every game played. Perhaps the lack of variaty in teammates or some other factor associated with parties caused you to level slower.

The point of all this is to say that I don't really know if team games are any less efficient then lone wolve games but I do know you can level much faster then you did. Although your statement may still be accurate, the system is capable of moving someone quickly in a Team game setting.


I didn't mean to say that TrueSkill isn't capable of moving people up in skill more quickly than I've done--just that I empathize with people who feel as if they've been stuck in one place for way too long. (And congrats on your 39!)

The most likely explanation, to me, is that your point 1) from above is correct. As someone (I think the OP) pointed out upthread, winning the vast majority of games is a good way to keep your sigma (remember, this is a measure of the accuracy of TrueSkill's guess at my skill level) very high, and a high sigma makes it hard to make your displayed skill go up.

One thing that I've noticed in a lot of the "TrueSkill is broken!!" posts is that people don't seem to be stopping to think that this is a conflict between how people want the system to work, and how it actually should work. What people think they want is to rank up quickly so that they can brag about the 50 next to their name; what the system is trying to deliver is good, competitive games at every level. Players shouldn't rank up OR down too quickly or too easily, because that makes skills wobble around. It's bad design to have situations like a player being a 41 in Team Slayer today, a 35 tomorrow, and a 43 the next day; not only is that frustrating on the 35 days, it means that matchmaking is putting you up against 35s when you're really closer to 40. That makes the match too easy for you and too hard for the real 35s.

TrueSkill starts out letting people rank up quickly, and then slows down. It keeps people at mid to high levels from leveling up (or down) too quickly, keeping them matched with people who are about as good as they are--whether they're on a hot streak or a cold one. It also takes into account the skill of your opponents, so that losing the occasional game against people who are much better than you doesn't count against you so much.

If you get enough wins, your skill goes up, and the occasional loss due to a bad match or bad play won't cost you too much. This is how the system is supposed to work. Some players are getting results that don't match their expectations, and some are genuinely stuck in loopholes in the system (which Bungie has probably at least looked at tweaking), but the situation isn't as dire as a lot of the posts here make it out to be.

  • 11.25.2007 8:17 AM PDT
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Posted by: TwoFaced1680
I looked at both our games played and here is what I found:

Note: In the Team Slayer playlist I went into matchmaking all by myself

Stats for my first 32 games:
- 26 wins and 6 losses
- 82% win rate
- Skill level achieved = 20
- Average levels moved per game played = .625

Stats for your first 34 games:
- 32 wins and 2 losses
- 94% win rate
- Skill level achieved = 13
- Average levels moved per game played = .38

Jumping ahead it took you 96 games to reach level 21 (it only took me 30) and you only had 8 losses for a win rate of 91%. You leveled .21 levels per game.


Posted by: Vorpal Sword
The most likely explanation, to me, is that your point 1) from above is correct. As someone (I think the OP) pointed out upthread, winning the vast majority of games is a good way to keep your sigma (remember, this is a measure of the accuracy of TrueSkill's guess at my skill level) very high, and a high sigma makes it hard to make your displayed skill go up.

Some players are getting results that don't match their expectations, and some are genuinely stuck in loopholes in the system (which Bungie has probably at least looked at tweaking), but the situation isn't as dire as a lot of the posts here make it out to be.


Absolutely correct. TwoFaced1680 has even shown some data that proves my assumptions about it being easier to gain skill ranking winning 80% of games than winning 95% of one's games.

By the by, VorpalSword's early games in the Team Slayer hopper show several important points about the Trueskill system that we haven't covered in QUITE exhaustive detail yet. Also, these early games show absolute proof of the conservative ranking system.

Here are several examples...

First example.
Second example.
Third example.
Fourth example.
Fifth example.
Sixth example.
Seven7h example.

Okay, notice how on all of these games you were pitted against players whose ranking was four or five levels above you? There's good reason for that.

The Matchmaking process works based on Mu, not based on your shown skill rank.

Let's take the fourth game and throw it up on the overhead. You were a team of 8s playing against a team of ~12s. One of the people in that team, REALGAMERMOSES, was a true 11. Comparatively, he had played tons (~80) of games in the Team Slayer hopper, and he had around a 50% win ratio. His Sigma was definitely low, so he was a real 11. Another person on that team was braves1078. He was a true 13, having played over 130 games (at that point) in the Team Slayer hopper with around a 50% win-loss. alxtroya had played 75 games with around a 50% to get to 12.

The way the system works is highlighted by that game. Your Mu rating was four to five levels above what your skill rank was shown to be. The game matched your Mu to the Mu of the opponents, and it gave what it thought would be a good game based upon the actual skill ratings of you and the opposing team. For this game, you might have been shown at a rank of 8, but your skill was actually rated at 13 or better.

In the sixth example, the system clearly thinks that you can hang with 20s even though you are only shown to be rated at a 13. In the seventh game, at least somebody on your team was rated a 27 in actual skill.

During your time in the Team Slayer hopper, you've been consistently pitted against teams of higher skill ranking than you. This is because your Mu is higher than your skill ranking would lead you to believe. In fact, you could probably assume that your Mu is somewhere around five to seven levels above your shown skill rating. This is not a bad thing! It means that you will still progress steadily through the ranks for five to seven levels even when your win/game ratio levels out to a .500.

You have only a few losses, and you are underrepresented by at least five levels. Imagine how much players who go undefeated are underrepresented. 15 levels? 25? It could be staggering. And the undefeated players won't bear out as much in the analysis, because the system WON'T match you with a player more than 10 skill ranks above or below you, no matter what your Mu actually is.

Well, I've made another book of a post, but I hope that it allows you to appreciate your rank better, knowing that the system actually has a higher opinion of your play than it shows. Good hunting.

  • 11.25.2007 10:54 AM PDT
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Good writeup, OP and guy on first page

++rep

  • 11.25.2007 2:48 PM PDT

Posted by: El Kafungus
Posted by: TwoFaced1680
I looked at both our games played and here is what I found:

Note: In the Team Slayer playlist I went into matchmaking all by myself

Stats for my first 32 games:
- 26 wins and 6 losses
- 82% win rate
- Skill level achieved = 20
- Average levels moved per game played = .625

Stats for your first 34 games:
- 32 wins and 2 losses
- 94% win rate
- Skill level achieved = 13
- Average levels moved per game played = .38

Jumping ahead it took you 96 games to reach level 21 (it only took me 30) and you only had 8 losses for a win rate of 91%. You leveled .21 levels per game.


Posted by: Vorpal Sword
The most likely explanation, to me, is that your point 1) from above is correct. As someone (I think the OP) pointed out upthread, winning the vast majority of games is a good way to keep your sigma (remember, this is a measure of the accuracy of TrueSkill's guess at my skill level) very high, and a high sigma makes it hard to make your displayed skill go up.

Some players are getting results that don't match their expectations, and some are genuinely stuck in loopholes in the system (which Bungie has probably at least looked at tweaking), but the situation isn't as dire as a lot of the posts here make it out to be.


Absolutely correct. TwoFaced1680 has even shown some data that proves my assumptions about it being easier to gain skill ranking winning 80% of games than winning 95% of one's games.

By the by, VorpalSword's early games in the Team Slayer hopper show several important points about the Trueskill system that we haven't covered in QUITE exhaustive detail yet. Also, these early games show absolute proof of the conservative ranking system.

Here are several examples...

First example.
Second example.
Third example.
Fourth example.
Fifth example.
Sixth example.
Seven7h example.

Okay, notice how on all of these games you were pitted against players whose ranking was four or five levels above you? There's good reason for that.

The Matchmaking process works based on Mu, not based on your shown skill rank.

Let's take the fourth game and throw it up on the overhead. You were a team of 8s playing against a team of ~12s. One of the people in that team, REALGAMERMOSES, was a true 11. Comparatively, he had played tons (~80) of games in the Team Slayer hopper, and he had around a 50% win ratio. His Sigma was definitely low, so he was a real 11. Another person on that team was braves1078. He was a true 13, having played over 130 games (at that point) in the Team Slayer hopper with around a 50% win-loss. alxtroya had played 75 games with around a 50% to get to 12.

The way the system works is highlighted by that game. Your Mu rating was four to five levels above what your skill rank was shown to be. The game matched your Mu to the Mu of the opponents, and it gave what it thought would be a good game based upon the actual skill ratings of you and the opposing team. For this game, you might have been shown at a rank of 8, but your skill was actually rated at 13 or better.

In the sixth example, the system clearly thinks that you can hang with 20s even though you are only shown to be rated at a 13. In the seventh game, at least somebody on your team was rated a 27 in actual skill.

During your time in the Team Slayer hopper, you've been consistently pitted against teams of higher skill ranking than you. This is because your Mu is higher than your skill ranking would lead you to believe. In fact, you could probably assume that your Mu is somewhere around five to seven levels above your shown skill rating. This is not a bad thing! It means that you will still progress steadily through the ranks for five to seven levels even when your win/game ratio levels out to a .500.

You have only a few losses, and you are underrepresented by at least five levels. Imagine how much players who go undefeated are underrepresented. 15 levels? 25? It could be staggering. And the undefeated players won't bear out as much in the analysis, because the system WON'T match you with a player more than 10 skill ranks above or below you, no matter what your Mu actually is.

Well, I've made another book of a post, but I hope that it allows you to appreciate your rank better, knowing that the system actually has a higher opinion of your play than it shows. Good hunting.


Again, great work Kafungus.

  • 11.25.2007 3:05 PM PDT
Subject: thanks
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ahh just what I needed, good job

  • 11.25.2007 3:57 PM PDT
Subject: Bottom line

7r1p1um

The only thing to say is. The bottom line is that this is probably the worst way to do ranks ever conceived. I mean it doesnt matter if you have ever lost or if you play with the same ppl or not. The bottom line should be wins vs losses. I mean the point is to win? .... Isnt it? and if you wanted to make ranking up technical do it this way.. **win vs Loss** ** players preformance decideing factor** meaning.. If you won that makes you move up.. and if you had an incredible hand in helping for the win that helps you move up quicker. I just love the fact that no matter how much you help your team *persay* assist* its just thrown out and not counted. I mean why have ranks or *true*skill if it is just based off of some off the wall mumbojumbo noone understands and makes no sense. I mean .. It should work like money. Win= collecting money , loss= spending money. * I myself like money.... I guess with this rating system we would all be *broke* rich*. Lame. I play to win and help my team while having fun doing it. But i want to play with people of the same skill or better. Not some ppl who got lucky. Wich is what this rating system boils down to. I mean where could it ever be conceived in someones mind that *assist,kill to death ratio, and Wins,* doesnt help you rank up... But instead... Some CRAZY numbskulled mathmatical solution Decides.. * even tho the mathmaitcal problem conterdicts itself most of the time anyways.. Quite frankly im surprised the ranking system doesnt just crash on itself. *kind of like when you throw a plasma into an oversheild point blank range* and im not here to dispute your theroys only to make a point that no matter what your therory is ... This ranking system *SUCKS*..... LMAO @ easier to rank up winning 80% than 95% what sense does that make???????

[Edited on 11.25.2007 6:13 PM PST]

  • 11.25.2007 6:11 PM PDT

Posted by: Tripium0
The only thing to say is. The bottom line is that this is probably the worst way to do ranks ever conceived. I mean it doesnt matter if you have ever lost or if you play with the same ppl or not. The bottom line should be wins vs losses. I mean the point is to win? .... Isnt it? and if you wanted to make ranking up technical do it this way.. **win vs Loss** ** players preformance decideing factor** meaning.. If you won that makes you move up.. and if you had an incredible hand in helping for the win that helps you move up quicker. I just love the fact that no matter how much you help your team *persay* assist* its just thrown out and not counted. I mean why have ranks or *true*skill if it is just based off of some off the wall mumbojumbo noone understands and makes no sense. I mean .. It should work like money. Win= collecting money , loss= spending money. * I myself like money.... I guess with this rating system we would all be *broke* rich*. Lame. I play to win and help my team while having fun doing it. But i want to play with people of the same skill or better. Not some ppl who got lucky. Wich is what this rating system boils down to. I mean where could it ever be conceived in someones mind that *assist,kill to death ratio, and Wins,* doesnt help you rank up... But instead... Some CRAZY numbskulled mathmatical solution Decides.. * even tho the mathmaitcal problem conterdicts itself most of the time anyways.. Quite frankly im surprised the ranking system doesnt just crash on itself. *kind of like when you throw a plasma into an oversheild point blank range* and im not here to dispute your theroys only to make a point that no matter what your therory is ... This ranking system *SUCKS*..... LMAO @ easier to rank up winning 80% than 95% what sense does that make???????


Your a moron mate. Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean its broken or sucks.

This ranking system is far better then Halo 2's was, you cant cheat the system.

  • 11.25.2007 6:22 PM PDT
Subject: system is just flawed
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If the skill rank system is supposed to match you with players that are your skill level, then how come Gamertag=holytitsmack won like twenty games in a row and only went up one level. Meanwhile staying there, he was racking up kill frenzys, running riots, and rampages like nothing. Its not fair to him to begin with, but its even less fair for his opponents that are being set up by the system for a beat down on their stats. Which is why the system is flawed in some way.

  • 11.25.2007 6:25 PM PDT
Subject: System is flawed

Real fish might hurt human body. Soffish 100% Harmless! Do not eat!

If you take a look at my recent games, Ignore the lone wolves ones, just waiting for a teammate, Howcome i won about 10 games in a row at my level 49 and lost once to other 48s and such and Lost my level? It made no sense and i still went positive in the loss. Could someone explain this to me? I ended up getting it back so i'm not to pissed but i couldnt think of any reason for this.

  • 11.25.2007 7:54 PM PDT
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Posted by: Mistar Killar
If you take a look at my recent games, Ignore the lone wolves ones, just waiting for a teammate, Howcome i won about 10 games in a row at my level 49 and lost once to other 48s and such and Lost my level? It made no sense and i still went positive in the loss. Could someone explain this to me? I ended up getting it back so i'm not to pissed but i couldnt think of any reason for this.


Your team was all around level 48, their team was all around level 46. You SHOULD have defeated them, according to the system. Since you lost, the upset knocked you down a lot more than an even level win would have put you up.

Whether or not you were positive in the loss means, in terms of the trueskill system, nothing. Also, you lost twice. I checked.

  • 11.25.2007 8:44 PM PDT
Subject: Bottom line

Posted by: Tripium0
The only thing to say is. The bottom line is that this is probably the worst way to do ranks ever conceived. I mean it doesnt matter if you have ever lost or if you play with the same ppl or not. The bottom line should be wins vs losses. I mean the point is to win? .... Isnt it? and if you wanted to make ranking up technical do it this way.. **win vs Loss** ** players preformance decideing factor** meaning.. If you won that makes you move up.. and if you had an incredible hand in helping for the win that helps you move up quicker. I just love the fact that no matter how much you help your team *persay* assist* its just thrown out and not counted. I mean why have ranks or *true*skill if it is just based off of some off the wall mumbojumbo noone understands and makes no sense. I mean .. It should work like money. Win= collecting money , loss= spending money. * I myself like money.... I guess with this rating system we would all be *broke* rich*. Lame. I play to win and help my team while having fun doing it. But i want to play with people of the same skill or better. Not some ppl who got lucky. Wich is what this rating system boils down to. I mean where could it ever be conceived in someones mind that *assist,kill to death ratio, and Wins,* doesnt help you rank up... But instead... Some CRAZY numbskulled mathmatical solution Decides.. * even tho the mathmaitcal problem conterdicts itself most of the time anyways.. Quite frankly im surprised the ranking system doesnt just crash on itself. *kind of like when you throw a plasma into an oversheild point blank range* and im not here to dispute your theroys only to make a point that no matter what your therory is ... This ranking system *SUCKS*..... LMAO @ easier to rank up winning 80% than 95% what sense does that make???????


Sounds like you don't really know how it works to me. You say it should be based on wins and losses...IT IS.

What does it mean to have an incredible hand in the win? Is it the person that created the plan to steal the flag? Is it the person who was calling out positions and being a good teammate. How do you quantify those two things. What is a good player in Lone Wolves? The person who goes negative but actually wins with 25 kills or the person who went 20/4 but came in 4th place. Individual performance shouldnt' be a factore because it just can't be defined neatly. Basing it off just the win and loss works well and over a series of games will put you at the correct skill level. If you think the skill levels is based on luck then you really don't understand how it works.

  • 11.25.2007 9:05 PM PDT
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.

Posted by: violentnight 63
so if your supposed to be looking at 50 wins to level up, and i rank up in ts about ever 2-3 games, and i can win about 10 games in lonewolves and not go up, this means that my sigma is high for ts but not lone wolves right?



ts lvl - 42 (in case this matters)

LW lvl 46 (in case this matters)


Not always, but generally yes. You have to win against higher level opponents and not just anyone to rank up so in Lonewolves you may win 10 games strait but all of them against lower level opponents and in team slayer you may always be against higher level opponents.

  • 11.25.2007 9:08 PM PDT
Subject: system is just flawed

Posted by: HOTBANGINNUKKA
If the skill rank system is supposed to match you with players that are your skill level, then how come Gamertag=holytitsmack won like twenty games in a row and only went up one level. Meanwhile staying there, he was racking up kill frenzys, running riots, and rampages like nothing. Its not fair to him to begin with, but its even less fair for his opponents that are being set up by the system for a beat down on their stats. Which is why the system is flawed in some way.
I'd check the numbers again. Holytitsmack never won 20 games in a row only leveling once. I checked the games. The longest streak was about 21 wins but he leveled from a 7 to a 14. He's played 48 games and leveled up to 17. That means he's leveling about 1 level per 2.8 games. The system is moving him right along. It could be faster but that's not bad at all. I was actually able to move through the first 30 levels moving 1 level every 1.2 games. A little over twice as fast as your friend.

The reason your friend is probably leveling slower is because he's actually winning to much. Sounds strange huh? When you begin the system is completly uncertain of the level you should be at. The system is also conservative. If you win a lot your uncertainty remains very high. As a result the system may believe your friend is somewhere between a 15 and a 30 but because it's conservative it picks the lower number. The OP believes the optimal win % for fast leveling is around 80%.

It's possible Bungie may tweak the system in the future. I'm sure they are pooring over data and will try to fine tune it. For now if you want to really level as quickly as possible then you should try to hit the 80% mark for wins. If you win to much it will actually slow you down (at least that's the current theory). Or you can just play and win and level naturally even if that means it's a little slower. If your friend feels stuck and is winning a lot he can try to lose a few games. That doesn't sound like a great solution but for optimal leveling that's probably what needs to be done. However, at the moment rest assured your friend is leveling at a reasonable pace and it's not as bad as you stated.

[Edited on 11.25.2007 10:05 PM PST]

  • 11.25.2007 9:34 PM PDT
Subject: System is flawed

etc etc/glaringly obvious/and so on, and such <=Not redundant!
Posted by: Cr4ne Style
Taxes do nothing to affect the share of wealth, since taxes are only applied to income.

So that's not even a part of the conversation at all, so it's pointless talking about it....

"for a "best" moral to exist, there must exist the "best" moral base. If the base of morality varies from location to location, culture to culture...then there can't be an absolute moral..

El Kafungus, your contributions to the bnet community in this thread are amazing. not only do you have a firm grasp of the material and explain it smoothly, but you take the time to churn data through the system to address people's concerns and potential problem cases. excellent job!

please keep up the good work.

  • 11.26.2007 7:30 AM PDT
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While this thread has been great for explaining how the rankings are done, im stumped at a situation that happened yesterday to me, and i'm wondering if anyone here had any feedback.

Came online and warmed up with a little rumble pit, then jumped into lone wolves.

Started up with a 1st place win and skilled up a lvl.
Then I went three more games with 1st place finishes and only ranked up one skill level after the third game. Here's the links to the games:

First win, gain a skill lvl
Second win, nothing
Third win, nothing
Fourth win, finally gained a skill lvl


I just want to understand exactly why this occurs. I've played many games in team doubles and lvl'd up after each win. I can even understand not always lvl'ng up, but three games in a row?? If i wasn't playing to lvl up, I wouldn't be playing in ranked games!

  • 11.26.2007 7:59 AM PDT

etc etc/glaringly obvious/and so on, and such <=Not redundant!
Posted by: Cr4ne Style
Taxes do nothing to affect the share of wealth, since taxes are only applied to income.

So that's not even a part of the conversation at all, so it's pointless talking about it....

"for a "best" moral to exist, there must exist the "best" moral base. If the base of morality varies from location to location, culture to culture...then there can't be an absolute moral..

first legend, how much stock do you think bungie or anyone else should place in the single case of 4 guys winning EVERY SINGLE GAME not having accurate ranks?

do you think that what is happening to one handful of dudes should cause anyone to think that the rank system is failing to realize its goal of assigning ranks that allow mm to better arrange challenging matches?

and, even if you think that such a case is hugely important, do you think that we should ignore everything that we know about the trueskill system and just forget about the fact that the accuracy of ranks will improve as we all play more games?

what reason do we have to change the rank system before it has been allowed to acquire enough data to perform its job?

  • 11.26.2007 10:15 AM PDT

etc etc/glaringly obvious/and so on, and such <=Not redundant!
Posted by: Cr4ne Style
Taxes do nothing to affect the share of wealth, since taxes are only applied to income.

So that's not even a part of the conversation at all, so it's pointless talking about it....

"for a "best" moral to exist, there must exist the "best" moral base. If the base of morality varies from location to location, culture to culture...then there can't be an absolute moral..

first legend, i have not ignored the question, i have answered it repeatedly: we cannot know exactly. the ranks will be much more accurate when each of us has played sufficiently many games against opponents who have played sufficiently many games. right now each and every one of us has started from scratch and the system must deal with great uncertainty. as we all play more games, the uncertainty will diminish, and our ranks will become more secure and more accurate.

if you want a date on the calender to circle, i am sorry, but none of us will be able to provide one.

since each of us have only played for 2 months and so many of us have our games played across many different playlists, why is it so hard for you to be patient?

the goal is for mm to function well for the long haul, and the rank system is designed to help realize that end. why are you so fixated on our ranks right now at this instant?

when you see funky cases like bussa's and the one presented in this thread, why not recognize that their ranks will become much more accurate as they play more games?

why can't you recognize that EVERY problem that you have harped on is a short-term issue that will be resolved merely by people playing more games?

  • 11.26.2007 11:30 AM PDT

Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo YOU

Thank you for describing this so well i have read the xbx truskill descrtiption and your comments make perfect sense, thank you again!! I just hope your right

  • 11.26.2007 11:51 AM PDT

etc etc/glaringly obvious/and so on, and such <=Not redundant!
Posted by: Cr4ne Style
Taxes do nothing to affect the share of wealth, since taxes are only applied to income.

So that's not even a part of the conversation at all, so it's pointless talking about it....

"for a "best" moral to exist, there must exist the "best" moral base. If the base of morality varies from location to location, culture to culture...then there can't be an absolute moral..

Posted by: The First Legend
Posted by: sesquipadelian
first legend, i have not ignored the question, i have answered it repeatedly: we cannot know exactly. the ranks will be much more accurate when each of us has played sufficiently many games against opponents who have played sufficiently many games. right now each and every one of us has started from scratch and the system must deal with great uncertainty. as we all play more games, the uncertainty will diminish, and our ranks will become more secure and more accurate.

You seem to have misunderstood it then. I'm not asking when it will happen. I'm asking you at what time will the wait be no longer personally acceptable to you. Do you understand. When will you go, damn this is taking forever, I'm tired of waiting, I dont care how good true skill will be, I wish they wouldve put something else it so we could have games already.

How long will the wait have to be, for you to say, well, it wasnt worth waiting this long, it wouldve been better if we wouldve had something slightly less accurate, but functional 2 months sooner.

Do you get what I am asking you ses?


i cannot imagine such a point taking place. when i look at my ranks, they seem to move as one would expect given my match results. when i look at ranks of people who link their gamertags, darn near every one of them have ranks that move as one would expect given their match results. when we look at peculiar problem cases, it is clear that the ranks are not yet accurate, but that problem is only present in the tiniest minority of players, and we still recognize that their problems will be eliminated as they play more games. even those players will begin to lose matches and the rank system will be able to award accurate ranks for them as well.

since the problems do not affect many players, and since those affected will have their problems eliminated, i cannot fathom a time where anyone would conclude that the rank system has failed so spectacularly as to warrant drastic changes.

most people do not have to wait long at all for accurate ranks, and the rank system is already doing far more than h2's to produce more challenging ranked matches. remember, the new rank system has all but gotten rid of problems associated with deranking, starting new accounts to destroy inferior talent, and boosting. since it provides so many benefits and so few negative consequences, i see as already proving to be a successful system, and it will only get better over time.

i suspect that some people may give up on the system, but those people literally seem to be too excellent at halo and they represent the smallest of minorities of players. i suspect that they would like to have sky-high ranks and may be frustrated not to have them yet, but they should understand that given how the system operates that they merely need to play more games to get more accurate ranks. for those select few players, then i would advise them to take it easy and not get all riled up for a problem that they know will vanish.

  • 11.26.2007 11:52 AM PDT
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  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: The First Legend

Now its a handful of people. Have you read every account, have you been keeping track of the numbers? Have you been keeping track of the matches? So, how do you even know if it is a handful of people? ive seen lots of examples. So, I am seeing a problem. Neither you, nor I, have any evidence released after these problems were revealed to address the situation, as such NEITHER of us are capable of saying with any certainty weather the system is working fine, or isnt working fine. However, I can say that the system has flaws and isnt working as intended. What can you say? Not much other than IT MUST WORK BECAUSE MICROSOFT MADE IT AND THEY KNOW STUFF.

Ive never said forgetting the besian(sp?) system, but Ive asked a question, which youve REPEATEDLY IGNORED. The question is, how long would the system have to be deficiant in giving competative matches before you consider it not worth it?

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DONT IGNORE THIS QUESTION FOR THE 10TH TIME


Fine. 1000 out of 3000000 people are experiencing problems. Because they win too much, and they only play on one team. The system has some unintentionally vigorous failsafes in place to guard against cheating, bungie has said as much. This is probably one aspect of them.

The Matchmaking system wasn't designed around unbeaten teams. It was designed around giving single players who just hop onto teams a reasonable chance at a good game. In order to give the VAST MAJORITY of players a good game, the system screws your buddies. Tough luck, they should try being less insular, maybe play with some other folks a time or two. Fixed unbeaten teams are for Clan games or MLG or Gamebattles, not Trueskill matchmaking.

Or maybe, if it's ruining their enjoyment of the game so much, and they won't follow ANY of the suggestions that have been set forth in this thread, maybe they should quit playing on that hopper. Try some lone wolves.

I've explained to you all the things your friends can do to fix the situation, I'll put them down here again:
1) Enter Team Slayer solo for a half dozen games. That'll do a better job of gaging their true skill.
2) Lose a couple of times, to around an 80% rate.
3) Pair off and take two random members with each pair for a few games.
4) Find new teammates, mix and match.

If they keep playing the way that they are, they're going to keep getting screwed.

Okay, so to sum up, I'm going to put this in all caps, because if it's for the 10th time, you've ignored all of my ten answers.

THE SYSTEM IS WORKING AS INTENDED. IT WORKS IN 99.9% OF CASES, YOUR FRIENDS ARE INTENTIONALLY THROWING THE SYSTEM AN EXCEPTION. THEY NEED TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT IF THEY WANT TO SEE A BIG NUMBER ON THEIR RANK.

I'd say if you aren't happy with the way the system works, either deal with it or quit, because they're not going to break the system for 99% to make the 1% that are gaming the system happy.

Now I don't want you in here, trolling, after we've given you an answer to every one of your questions. The system wasn't designed to deal with a player with a friends list that only has 3 people in it. Your buddies need to realize that and play the hopper as intended, or they need to quit sending you up here to whine for them. This is the last time I'm posting an answer to this problem, further attempts to post this question will result in cries of "SOMEBODY CALL HIM A WAAAAHHHHMBULANCE!" Come up with a new question or we'll just have to ignore you. Or possibly petition a moderator to delete your messages for trolling in a sticky.

[Edited on 11.26.2007 11:57 AM PST]

  • 11.26.2007 11:53 AM PDT