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  • Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.

Posted by: II H0LMES II
50th game
Your level = 15 Player levels 13 (75 Mu/win 125Mu/loss) 14 (85 Mu/win 115Mu/loss) 15 (100 Mu/win/loss) 17 (125 Mu/win 75Mu/loss)
Sigma at 50%
you place 2nd
L13 was 1st
L15 was 3rd
L14 was 4th
L17 was 5th
in this you would get:
L13 You would lose 62 Mu -(50% of 125 Mu)
L14 You would gain 42 Mu +(50% of 85 Mu)
L15 You would gain 50 Mu +(50% of 100 Mu)
L17 You would gain 62 Mu +(50% of 125 Mu)
It's a little more complicated than this but this is the basic idea of it. An opponents sigma is also taken in to account when figuring your MU for example.

So, after this game you would gain 154 Mu but lose 62 and thus a net change of 92 Mu gained. After more and more games, your Sigma will fall so you gain and lose even less (so if you have a sketchy history at level 20 but roughly even amounts of wins/losses your rank will eventually stop around 19-21)Yes, if you have roughly even amount of wins and losses your rank will not move up significantly. It is important to remember that the skill of you opponents is also taken in to consideration. Winning to lower skilled and losing to higher skilled opponents will not affect your skill as much as losing to lower skilled and winning to higher skilled.

so by this examlpe your telling methat from this point on.. you can actually stop at a level and thats pretty much where your going to be no matter how much you win? No. Once the system is confident in your rank it will take a significant amount of wins against equally or higher skilled opponents to raise your skill but that doesn't mean you are stuck there or will never go up.

  • 12.10.2007 9:34 AM PDT

"I react like an animal and tear you apart.'

"I don't play but I'm a player til the mother -blam!- end!"

I don't really believe that is true. Because I play Team Slayer w/ my friends all the time and I'm better than most of them. You say all it takes into account is wheter you win or lose but a lot of times I get MVP and my skill is always going up but then my friends that do bad still get a win but don't rank up. You can see that each player is ranked on their individual skills. We played basically the same amount of matches and obviously would win or lose the same amount but the better players get a higher rank and the worse kids don't really rank up.

  • 12.10.2007 11:12 AM PDT

Posted by: MaxxDevil55
I don't really believe that is true. Because I play Team Slayer w/ my friends all the time and I'm better than most of them. You say all it takes into account is wheter you win or lose but a lot of times I get MVP and my skill is always going up but then my friends that do bad still get a win but don't rank up. You can see that each player is ranked on their individual skills. We played basically the same amount of matches and obviously would win or lose the same amount but the better players get a higher rank and the worse kids don't really rank up.
That's cool, you can have your opinion on how it works. I just based my opinion on reading the published pages describing the details of MS TrueSkill system, posts made by Bungie employees and looking at too many players/teams stats.

"Basically" playing the same amount of matches and "obviously" winning or losing the same amount is all that matters. Why use facts when we can use assumptions cause it just makes sense. It's not like the skill level of your team mates and opponents make any difference at all.

If you've all the played together, and only together, you would all be the same level regardless of who got the most kills or not. This has been PROVEN in this very thread with a team that has only played together and been stuck at 14. I'm not flamming you dude, I just don't want others to read your post and think it's right.

  • 12.10.2007 11:30 AM PDT
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sounds confusing to me

  • 12.10.2007 11:56 AM PDT

iv played 24 double team games,. won 18 of them,, and i ranked up one level,, my friend i was playing with went up 14,, what is that... i was a 17 when we started he was a 16 now i am a 18 and he is a 30

  • 12.10.2007 3:37 PM PDT

luv..

so i went back and did a quick count of just my last 50 team slayer games. 56 actually i went back to where i got my 48. i won 36/56 of those games which means i lost 20.. my win ratio is about 64 percent? and note im still a 48.. what does this mean for me?

  • 12.10.2007 8:37 PM PDT

me too, i play team objective most of my time and since a lot of people dont play it at first, i play brigadiers, colonels ect while i am only a Cpt. The ast 5 games I won/tied and didnt rank up one. usually it took me 3 games to win to rank up. the last 5 games i won were with the same party but it was not mixed. everyone ranked up but me. even a gunnery grade 2 ranked up faster than me. he started at the 1st game we met as a 25 and since those 5 games we won as a team, he ranked up 4...i ranked up none...how can that be? how long until i rank up?

  • 12.11.2007 4:17 AM PDT

Wiizpig

Almost every single one of my Halo 2 Matches are linked to another Xbox Live TAG: Wizhazard
http://www.bungie.net/stats/playerstatshalo2.aspx?player=wizh azard

Can someone explain me one thing?
Here are my stats
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Halo3/RankHistory.aspx?player=Wii zpig
It says that i need level 10 for next rank, but i'm already 10 in "Double Team" but the rank didn't go up. What should i do? I need more EXP?

  • 12.11.2007 10:33 AM PDT
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Awesome post. Cheers!!

  • 12.11.2007 2:26 PM PDT
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so basically what your saying is, just do good?

  • 12.11.2007 3:13 PM PDT
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Probably the same people who thought of the beat down system thought of the "Trueskill" system.

[Edited on 12.11.2007 4:12 PM PST]

  • 12.11.2007 4:11 PM PDT
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ido agree but how many pplae goin go of halo 3 rite after a game and checkthere rating xbox 360 control base at least on halo 3 u can look it the game straight away

  • 12.11.2007 4:21 PM PDT
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ok so i am at level 43.. playing against 45 and such.. i win 25-30 games on that 43.. i get my 44..awsome then i win another game and then loose the next one and i go back down???i know this has all been explained but im still a little lost..

  • 12.11.2007 4:40 PM PDT
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ok so i am at level 43.. playing against 45 and such.. i win 25-30 games on that 43.. i get my 44..awsome then i win another game and then loose the next one and i go back down???i know this has all been explained but im still a little lost..

  • 12.11.2007 4:41 PM PDT

Posted by: T0RTVTENTED
ok so i am at level 43.. playing against 45 and such.. i win 25-30 games on that 43.. i get my 44..awsome then i win another game and then loose the next one and i go back down???i know this has all been explained but im still a little lost..
You weren't playing against 45's. Take another look at your game history. Generally you played against 1 or 2 people near you in the 40-44ish range and a couple people well below you. Being the higher rank in a very mixed party is a sure fire way to level slowly. Two reasons why. You play teams that on average are below your skill level. For ranking up it's better to play people above you. Since you don't get a chance to do that you can't really prove you should be going up. Secondly there is an issue with mixed parties that can slow or halt the leveling progress. Bungie is working on fixing this problem.

  • 12.11.2007 5:06 PM PDT

Posted by: Wiizpig
Can someone explain me one thing?
Here are my stats
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Halo3/RankHistory.aspx?player=Wii zpig
It says that i need level 10 for next rank, but i'm already 10 in "Double Team" but the rank didn't go up. What should i do? I need more EXP?
Yes, you need more experience. Liutenant requires a skill level of 10 AND 70 experience. Since you have already met the skill level requirement all you need is the experience. Next rating should technically be showing "skill 10 and 70 experience or 150 experience". However the short version is shown to save space (at least that's my assumption). If you click on the link next to "next rating" you can see the whole military rank chart and what's required. That should be more clear.

  • 12.11.2007 5:14 PM PDT

Posted by: pinoys rule
me too, i play team objective most of my time and since a lot of people dont play it at first, i play brigadiers, colonels ect while i am only a Cpt. The ast 5 games I won/tied and didnt rank up one. usually it took me 3 games to win to rank up. the last 5 games i won were with the same party but it was not mixed. everyone ranked up but me. even a gunnery grade 2 ranked up faster than me. he started at the 1st game we met as a 25 and since those 5 games we won as a team, he ranked up 4...i ranked up none...how can that be? how long until i rank up?
The more games you play the more certain the system becomes of your skill level. At that point you won't rank as fast. You can still move up but it will take more "proof" that you should be moving up.

The person you met (the 25 who moved 4 levels) has played very few games of team objective. He had played a total of 44 games before pairing up with you and had won 37 of them. He's going to be able to rank quickly because of this. That's why he went up 4 levels in the span of just a few games. Basically the system is unsure where he belongs and thus willing to move him quickly. At this point he's given the system no reason to doubt he should be higher, so it keeps bumping him up.

You on the other hand have played WAY more games. I added up your record for the last last 53 games you've played before you paired up with that 25. Out of those games you went 26-27. Looking even further back as of 124 games ago you were at skill level 19. I didn't feel like counting any further but at the very least you've played played almost 3 times as many games as that 25 did and I'm sure it's more like 4-7 times. Your record isn't nearly as good either. So basically at this point you've proven to the system that you are a 24. Based on your record I see no reason to disagree with that. In order to move up you will need to win more then you lose on a consitent basis. It will be slower going because at this point you need to really prove you can move up. 5 straight wins doesn't prove anything. Anyone can go on small streaks. Keep winning the majority of your games and you will rank up.

  • 12.11.2007 5:48 PM PDT

Posted by: II H0LMES II
so i went back and did a quick count of just my last 50 team slayer games. 56 actually i went back to where i got my 48. i won 36/56 of those games which means i lost 20.. my win ratio is about 64 percent? and note im still a 48.. what does this mean for me?
It means you need to win more :) Seriously though just keep playing and winning. Those last few ranks can be tough to get for a couple reasons. At this point you've probably played a good number of games in that playlist, so ranking slows down. Also at the top there aren't that many people above you. For ranking up it's better to play people above your skill level. Because you can't as often it will be slower to move. Just keep playing and if you continue to win that often I'm guessing you'll get to 50 eventually.

How are the new maps?

  • 12.11.2007 6:02 PM PDT

believe it or not i actually leveled DOWN from WINNING a game.
what is going on!?!

  • 12.11.2007 6:11 PM PDT
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ok well why when i lost that match did i go right back down?? and does playing with the same team over and over again affect my ranking?? do social matches affect my rank as well??

  • 12.11.2007 6:33 PM PDT

Posted by: I M4KE IT R4IN
believe it or not i actually leveled DOWN from WINNING a game.
what is going on!?!
Although mathmatically possible, it's far more likely the DNF you had the game before didn't effect your rank until after you won. Often the effect of a DNF can be delayed.

  • 12.11.2007 6:48 PM PDT

Posted by: T0RTVTENTED
ok well why when i lost that match did i go right back down??
You were probably on the edge. Also losing against lower ranks can effect you much more then losing against equally skilled players. You went up against a 44 and two 20 somethings when you lost. The "penelty" for that loss was obvioulsy enough to drop you back down.


Posted by: T0RTVTENTED
and does playing with the same team over and over again affect my ranking??
I guess that depends on what you mean by effect your ranking. Let's just say the system doesn't treat you any differently for playing with the same people over and over again.

Posted by: T0RTVTENTED
do social matches affect my rank as well??
No. You have a completly seperate skill level for every playlist. Your leveling in any ranked playlist only has to do with the games you've played in that playlist.

  • 12.11.2007 7:01 PM PDT
Subject: Yea only one problem it dosent work all the time!
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Not sure if someone has asked this before. But according to your equation it should be impossible to level up after a loss. Why then did my friend. Who I know had a very high sigma. Level from 4 to 5. After playing team doubles with me. I think I was around 40 at the time.

Game 1: http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=176038 835&player=Blebbins Win Level 1 - 4
Game 2: http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=176044 027&player=Blebbins Loss Level 4 -5
Game 3 http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=176049 375&player=Blebbins Loss Stayed Level 5

Maybe I am missing something. We got creamed in game 2 and he still leveled up.

The game before We won and he leveled from 1-4. I just don't see how he could level up after losing according to your method?

  • 12.11.2007 7:08 PM PDT
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One other thing. Do I have a differant sigma/mu for each hopper? (TS, TO, Tact, Doubles, Lone Wolves?) Or is my sigma the same for everything.

  • 12.11.2007 7:10 PM PDT
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How come when I win in social slayer my EXP goes down? I just played to games and did good in both and my team won and I got negative points.

  • 12.11.2007 7:11 PM PDT