Halo 3 Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
  • Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

"First, there is a general matchmaking issue affecting parties of mixed skill levels, which slows (or halts) the progress of players in those parties"

- by Bungie Team Member... ferrex

CAN YOU SAY SCREWED???

  • 12.19.2007 11:09 AM PDT

Posted by: II TiemenZ II
k so this still doesnt explain y i havent levelled up to a 49...

im a 48 in doubles

ive been playin recently and had a 12 game winning streak against similar levels (around 44-48) then i lost one, then i went on another 8 game winning streak (again against similar levels), and then lost one, after that for about 20 or so games i joined games by myself and won about 15 out of 20 games, mind you there werent any game "sprees" (id win 2, then lose 1, then win 1, then lose 1 for instance). Then after that my buddy came online who is a 46 and we won 10 straight against similar levels, sadly, im still a 48, and havent moved...

any suggestions?
can someone explain to me y im not levellin up? i did read the post, but its not like im being very inconsistant with my winning and losing.

BTW my gamertag is II TiemenZ II its not linked to my profile, so feel free to take a look at my games and hopefully figure out what im doing wrong to not level up
I looked at the last 4 pages of games for you. For 13 games during that time you played with a lower rank. I believe your friend started as a 33. The one thing you can do for yourself to help things along is not play in mixed parties. A mixed party almost guarantees that the higher rank will level very slowly or not at all.

Other then that you have a very good win % and there is nothing else you can do. Just keep playing and do your best to win. This statement you made pretty much nails it on the head "ive been playin recently and had a 12 game winning streak against similar levels (around 44-48)". Most people you are going to play are at or below your level. It's much easier to rank up when you can prove yourself against higher levels. Unfortunatly near the top playing higher levels doesn't happen as much because there just aren't that many people above you. As a result it will take a bit more effort to level up.

  • 12.19.2007 12:37 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Thanks man-- that explanation should be required reading for everyone who posts about the ranking system in here. In addition, I hope that this will illustrate how complex and technical a ranking system like this is, so maybe there will be less -blam!-ing from people who think they deserve some kind of special treatment. This ranking system is extremely fair, no matter what playlist you're in-- if you're playing solo, you have only yourself to rely on, but if you're in team (which seems to be where people have them most complaints about ranking), then individual stats are, and should be, negligible. Put is this way-- ARod is the best hitter in baseball. He gets paid the most money, by far, and everyone can agree that he's a Hall of Fame hitter. That said, I wouldn't want him on my team. He just doesn't help his teams win. There are a lot of ARods in Halo.

  • 12.19.2007 1:02 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

About people that are NEW to HALO 3:

If you start out losing like crazy and then increase wins later... (noob)

TrueSkill really doesn't make ANY exceptions for increasingly > BETTER > players from going up in RANK.

Example: DOOM4U77

I really do pity this kid...

He's playing so much better but his win / losses aren't the best.

I told him to buy a new account... I hope it doesn't come to that... $50 bucks!

I KNOW he would be a 20 in two days easy with the new account.

Why not have a fix for that?

Please, please, please help him out ferrex! ! !

  • 12.19.2007 1:11 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

this is a very informative letter to starters who think that because they got the most kills there rank goes up
thanks for the info it will help people alot.

  • 12.19.2007 1:13 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Make the K/D ratio part of the equation Bungie.

Okay the system has a problem - NO DOUBT - it's rampant in the forums.

And explanations suck to be honest - all we know is there is a problem and they are working it.

My suggestion:

POSITIVE kills / deaths ratio help rank up and are the deciding factor if you win.

What else would win the game? Negative kills hurt the score - period.

Positive kills carry the team. I've lost tons of times where the "FOOLS RUSH IN".

What is to stop these idiots from killing themselves?

It's not "I love to kill myself and play alone" Slayer.

Assisting each other wins the game, one more time if your listening...

" T E A M" Slayer.

  • 12.19.2007 1:39 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I am not sure that the ranking system really does apply in my case, due to the fact that I started out and couldnt play worth a poop... Now Im as good as any 30 level person, and can hold my own. But because I started out badly and learned how to play LIVE online, and playing poorly... Then later getting better, I am being held from advancing.
On a further note, of pure aggravation... EVERYONE HAS overkill, killing spree, running riot, etc as an achievement, and it is listed on their achievement page because they played well and earned the medal. Now... why... can you tell me... did I go play well, earn those same medals, BUT they DO NOT count as an achievement for me??
and for anyone who is following along... I have played 583 ranked games, and 317 social ones, and have 450 EXP... any math person can figure out that I have 50% on the money win-lose ratio.


there are only 10 kinds of peopl in this world... those that understand binary, and those who dont.

  • 12.19.2007 2:01 PM PDT

Posted by: KA0S777
Make the K/D ratio part of the equation Bungie.
I don't think this would vastly improve the system. It would be to reliant on trial and error and isn't always appropriate to the gametype. For example a very good player in lone wolves finds a way to get the most kills and realizes K/D ratio isn't as important.

Posted by: KA0S777
Okay the system has a problem - NO DOUBT - it's rampant in the forums.

And explanations suck to be honest - all we know is there is a problem and they are working it.
There are two issues I know off. Both have been addressed in the forums. True they haven't been to specific in the updates but what else do you really need to know. They are working on fixing any issues and it'll happen when they finish.

Posted by: KA0S777
What else would win the game? Negative kills hurt the score - period.
I disagree completly. You are making a blind assumption there. I would much rather have the person who goes 15-17 then the one who goes 2-0. The person who goes negative might just be the guy who drew the other team out and allowed you to go positive. It's not always so simple.

" T E A M" Slayer.
T E A M Objective; L O N E Wolves; CTF; Oddball; King of the Hill

You may like team slayer so you think the system should only be designed with that in mind, but there are other playlists and gametypes where K/D ratio isn't everything. The system needs to handle this variaty. It's not practical to design a system that needs to be slightly different for each playlist or gametype.

[Edited on 12.19.2007 2:09 PM PST]

  • 12.19.2007 2:08 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

posted by twofaced 1680
There are two issues I know off. Both have been addressed in the forums. True they haven't been to specific in the updates but what else do you really need to know. They are working on fixing any issues and it'll happen when they finish.

Yeah, maybe... but are they going to fix it and it will "happen" as of "x" day forward..... OR make it retro for gameplay that has already happened and was not ranked correctly???

  • 12.19.2007 2:21 PM PDT

Posted by: DOOM4U77
I am not sure that the ranking system really does apply in my case, due to the fact that I started out and couldnt play worth a poop... Now Im as good as any 30 level person, and can hold my own. But because I started out badly and learned how to play LIVE online, and playing poorly... Then later getting better, I am being held from advancing.
You are not being held from advancing. The system will never stop you from going up. It's true after a while your ability to rank up will slow, but it will never stop. You are just as capable of moving up as anyone else who has played for a while. The difference is your skill may be drastically different then what your skill level indicates because you've now got the hang of things, so you have a longer journey to your real skill level.

I agree this can be scene as a downside to the system. It would be nice if it had the ability to adapt and spot major changes quicker. In time though if you are much better your skill level will rise to reflect this.

Posted by: DOOM4U77
On a further note, of pure aggravation... EVERYONE HAS overkill, killing spree, running riot, etc as an achievement, and it is listed on their achievement page because they played well and earned the medal. Now... why... can you tell me... did I go play well, earn those same medals, BUT they DO NOT count as an achievement for me??
My overkill etc. doesn't appear in the achievements tab. I dont' think they are supposed to. Yours do appear in your medal chest just like mine. I don't understand the problem.

Oh, I just checked someone elses stats and they do have an overkill on their achievments page. The description for it is: "Killed 4 enemies within 4 seconds of one another in a ranked free for all playlist".

Looks like it needs to be done in a free for all playlist. Mystery solved.

Posted by: DOOM4U77
and for anyone who is following along... I have played 583 ranked games, and 317 social ones, and have 450 EXP... any math person can figure out that I have 50% on the money win-lose ratio.
A 50% win rate would be just enough to keep you at whatever level you are on. It would not be good enough to go up so this doesn't help your cause. Also looking at your overall win rate, which includes social, doesn't tell us much. Your win rate in a specific playlist is all that matters. Even more specifically your win rate over the past 50 games is probably the most important.

  • 12.19.2007 2:31 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Two Faced.....
I will have to look over my last 50-100 games and get the ratio... cause my first 100 or so were not so good...

Free for all game... Is that a NON ranked match then?

  • 12.19.2007 2:36 PM PDT

Posted by: DOOM4U77
posted by twofaced 1680
There are two issues I know off. Both have been addressed in the forums. True they haven't been to specific in the updates but what else do you really need to know. They are working on fixing any issues and it'll happen when they finish.

Yeah, maybe... but are they going to fix it and it will "happen" as of "x" day forward..... OR make it retro for gameplay that has already happened and was not ranked correctly???
I don't have their schedule. As much as consumers like you and I love answers and want to know exactly when things will happen it's just not realistic to set specific time tables. It will take as long as they need to fix the issue. My guess is it would happen with the first major update. They haven't given us any specifics on that.

It would not be retro active. The fixes can't be. As far as I know the current problems have to do with match quality. Under certain circumstances teams end up being poorly matched into games where nothing can be learned about there skill level. Fixing these issue therefore can't make up for past. The problems have nothing to do with calculating your rank change. The problems are a result of the actual matching that takes place.

[Edited on 12.19.2007 2:42 PM PST]

  • 12.19.2007 2:38 PM PDT

Posted by: DOOM4U77
Two Faced.....
I will have to look over my last 50-100 games and get the ratio... cause my first 100 or so were not so good...

Free for all game... Is that a NON ranked match then?
There are two free for all playlists. Lone Wolves is ranked, rumble pit is not. Free for all means it's just you by yourself.

  • 12.19.2007 2:39 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: TwoFaced1680
Posted by: Baaaaaaaaaaaaah
Posted by: TwoFaced1680
Posted by: Baaaaaaaaaaaaah
Posted by: TwoFaced1680
Posted by: I3utteRzZ
So...how do I get my sigma higher again, so I can level up faster...again.
You can't. Sigma is increased slightly before each calculation to prevent it from ever reaching zero. In general though Sigma always goes down after a game. There is no evidence that shows you can do anything to raise your Sigma.


If Sigma is simply standard deviation, and you go on a streak that consistantly deviates from your expected performance (lots of variance), wouldn't your sigma naturally increase? I would have thought sigma would only approach 0 if you are performing according to the system's expectations.

Been a few years since I have taken a high levels stats course, but that would be my theory.
I can't really explain the math behind it, but think of it this way. After each game something is learned about you. Depending on who you played and what the system knows about them will determine just how much can be learned from that one game. Every game you play gives the system a bit more information and allows the system to zero in on your true skill. Thus uncertainty (Sigma) has to go down after each game. In theory once Sigma has dropped very low you should trully be at your skill level and prolonged win streaks shouldn't be possible. However, players skills do change and it's possible you've improved and can suddenly win all your games. In that case the system would increase your skill level over time, but it will take a while to "convince it" to move you.


I absolutely understand that....but I think sigma increases when your "skill" changes, because there is now variation around the expected mean. A larage streak would signify a skill change...so I suspect MU and sigma would go up in that case.
Sorry for explaining the obviouse :) I've found no mention in Microsoft's paper that Sigma would begin to rise for any given reason. Here is a quote from the documentation that tells us Sigma goes down after every game:

"The uncertainty of both players (regardless of win/loss/draw) is going to decrease by the factor [equation omitted]"

We know streaks aren't taken into account by TrueSkill. Jay120171 actually wrote microsoft asking this very question and got a response. I'll just post his original post below.

Posted by: Jay120171
OK, so there was a discussion about winning and losing streaks affecting sigma/skill. So, at that time I decided to email MS about it and ask. As it turns out, in the Xbox Live TrueSkill system, it DOES NOT take streaks in to account. Now, we know Bungie uses a modified version of TrueSkill so we can't say with 100% certainty one way or another but still this is useful info.

Here is the email response I received:

TrueSkill as used on Xbox Live stores one mu and one sigma value for each game, game mode; as such, it only takes into account the current game but never considers a streak of wins. BTW, we are currently attending the NIPS conference where we present a paper and an analysis on the game of Chess were we do take whole streaks of wins and losses into account!


Best wishes,

Ralf Herbrich





I think what it comes down to is they lower sigma on a game by game basis rather than take a sample of the most recent games, which I think would be more statistically valid. If you get on a big streak you have volatility around your old expected performance...so sigma should be nowhere close to zero. Older games outside of a reasonable sample set should become less relevant...that way the system recognizes skill changes much quicker.

I can see the current system being frustratingly slow for people that sucked at first, and then improved drastically. Ranking up would take a long, long time.

  • 12.19.2007 2:47 PM PDT

Posted by: Baaaaaaaaaaaaah
I think what it comes down to is they lower sigma on a game by game basis rather than take a sample of the most recent games, which I think would be more statistically valid. If you get on a big streak you have volatility around your old expected performance...so sigma should be nowhere close to zero. Older games outside of a reasonable sample set should become less relevant...that way the system recognizes skill changes much quicker.

I can see the current system being frustratingly slow for people that sucked at first, and then improved drastically. Ranking up would take a long, long time.
I agree. Because the current system only looks at 1 game at a time it has no way of spotting drastic changes. This can certainly be frustrating to some. Based on what the microsoft guy said it looks like they are lookng into streaks and will hopefully improve the ability of the system to react to drastic changes.

  • 12.19.2007 2:55 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I have read your post but am having a huge problem that I dont understand. Me and my friend both made new accounts to get to high ranks without having many losses. So far we have one EVERY SINGLE slayer match we have played. I currently have 56 xp with 61 total games played and the only losses being 3 in hardcore due to extremely bad players on our team and 2 in doubles. We have played together the entire time but he is a 27 and I am a mere 10. We currently have about a 20 or so game win streak. I was stuck at 7 for about 10 games then went up to 8. Then 10 games more and I go up to a 10. Why does he keep going up so fast while I am stuck at this low level. I gain levels faster on my 41 for christs sake. This is rediculous

  • 12.19.2007 7:13 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

the same exact thing happened to me. all my friends had played halo 2 for a while and so when they got halo 3 they leveled up in a second. I hadnt played halo 2 so I had to learn how to play online first, and it messed up my leveling a lot. Ive been stuck in the 20-25 skill range for over 300 games. In many of my games ive been mvp and I do better then most on my team the majority of the time. the only reason I wont get a new account is because I allready have played around 1000 games so if I ditched that I would lose exp, acheivements, and my campain progress. In my opinon this is one of the biggest problems w/ the trueskill system (its still a good system).

  • 12.19.2007 8:36 PM PDT
Subject: Yea only one problem it dosent work all the time!

"If buttered toast lands buttered side down, and cats always land on their feet, then what happens when you attach buttered toast to the back of a cat?

Even with it's namesake, the Trueskill system is flawed. If it were really true skill, then you would have one rank, the averageof all your ranks, to be your overall level. That would be your real trueskill, because it would cover everything, team slayer, objective, etc. Insteead of having a rank for per gametype, make one rank that covers all gametypes, and then have it break down into individual ranks, like for example I'm a 36 in lone wolves, 35 in team slayer, but only a 7 in team objective. That should tell you that I don't play ranked objective a lot, but I do well in slayer. An average of all of your ranks is what it should be to get the most accurite overall rank, and it shouldn't just go by the highest rank you have.

  • 12.19.2007 8:54 PM PDT
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.

Vince Aut Morire

I don't care how they figure it. It's stupid and pathetic. I can drop 2 ranks after 2 losses but it takes forever to go up one?

  • 12.19.2007 10:34 PM PDT
Subject: Yea only one problem it dosent work all the time!

Posted by: rockmaster
Even with it's namesake, the Trueskill system is flawed. If it were really true skill, then you would have one rank, the averageof all your ranks, to be your overall level. That would be your real trueskill, because it would cover everything, team slayer, objective, etc. Insteead of having a rank for per gametype, make one rank that covers all gametypes, and then have it break down into individual ranks, like for example I'm a 36 in lone wolves, 35 in team slayer, but only a 7 in team objective. That should tell you that I don't play ranked objective a lot, but I do well in slayer. An average of all of your ranks is what it should be to get the most accurite overall rank, and it shouldn't just go by the highest rank you have.
If Bungie wanted to average all your ranks and show it they could. That has nothing to do with TrueSkill. TrueSkill is what's used to determine that you are a 36 in lone wolves or 35 in Team Slayer. They don't average your skill levels beacause frankly there isn't any point in doing so. The system doesn't match you on the highest rank you have. If you are playing Team Slayer you get matched on your rank for Team Slayer which makes a lot of sense to me. The only thing highest skill level is used for is to determine your Military Rank.

I'm not sure what you want them to use this overall averaged skill level for. I see no purpose to it. Nobody is required to play all playlists and they shouldn't be. How can an average skill level make sense when the playlists that would be included very from 1 person to another. Also how does it make sense to average in your 7 in Team Objective when you are only a 7 because you haven't played many games. If I played 1 game of Lone Wolves should my rank of 1 be averaged in. That just makes no sense.

  • 12.19.2007 11:00 PM PDT

I know the basic's of the ranking system. But it is kinda ridiculous how my alt account ReverentTen went up a skill level after quiting twice :|

  • 12.20.2007 1:04 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I have read all (currently 26 pages) of this thread and also a lot of others on a similar vibe and I for one am really disappointed that matchmaking in Halo
3 has come from a system thats only problem was people could go up and down through the levels quickly to a system that, if you want to level up:

Doesn't allow you to play with all your friends regardless of skill
Doesn't allow you to play solely with the same Team
PUNISHES THOSE PLAYERS THAT IMPROVE!!!! by not allowing them to earn a higher level
Punishes those players that are good but inconsistent but want to fluctuate a bit (this is a huge amount of halo players)

With the H2 linear system you might get people going down 5 levels and then up 5 levels etc but generally floating around the same level but at least they could track their progress. Play good go up, play bad go down. On paper it might seem nice that once you have played say a thousand games you won’t level down for losing a couple because the SYSTEM knows you are a bit better than that. You should go down if you lose a few irrespective of how many games you have played, then play a few games against people that might be A BIT worse than you and win the majority of those and level back up. This will make gamers feel all warm and fuzzy inside because they have just proven they are A BIT better. I can’t stress enough and feel ashamed that I have to use capital letters to get my point across but...

THIS IS WHY PEOPLE PLAY GAMES. BUNGIE YOU KNOW THIS. BEAT PEOPLE ON XBOX LIVE. GET GAMERPOINTS. A LIST OF ACHEIVMENTS FOR EACH GAME. WE WANT TO KNOW HOW WE ARE DOING AND THAT BE REPRESENTED IN A NUMBER!

It’s also a little too presumptuous for me that in the same scenario I win 10 games against people who might have a slightly lower level but are still damn good, top drawer and quite frankly amazing at Halo and I have had to work damn hard to win those games and I don’t level up because the system has decided how good I am already and made it practically impossible to move through the levels.

Yeah it’s nice that you don’t get so many people trying to down level but it was still a minority and you could build something into the linear system to fix
that relatively easily. The passion has gone from playing halo, play 500-1000+ games and you might as well call it a day because you have been judged and the decision is final. FFS this is so wrong it makes the OJ Simpson trial look like a fair decision!

Bungie, are you really endorsing a system that makes so many of your community unhappy. A system that normalises and prevents rewards for upsets and overhauls. Taking away peoples sense of achievement and trying to comfort them with the fact that everyone they play should be exactly as good as them? Its impossible for any system to work out every individuals propensity to change, especially with the lack of relevant data in the first instance and especially with such a large variable skill set and gulf in playing frequency. People fluctuate game to game and Johnny Average wants to know when he wins his team the game with that sticky double kill in the dying seconds they might all go up a level and get a shot at some bigger boys.

Halo players, are you endorsing this system? Have I got it all wrong and the most important thing is that every single game the teams are exactly as good as each other at any cost? We all know from playing it that this isn't the case anyway. Is it not that the only discernable difference from halo 2,aside from the delevelers, is that once you have played a lot of games and you meet a team that is as good as you and you win, that you just don’t level up?

In addendum,
Please don’t come back to me and tell me that you can level up because I know it’s slow and it’s not good enough
Please don’t say Bungie are working on a couple of the more serious issues but ignoring the main one. No timescale. No progress report. No Official response. It’s your own fault for making it so god damn good in the first place, for being so community orientated and gamer-centric but this, this is just not good enough.

It is a true credit to the game and its community that I feel like I can write this and make a difference. I sincerely hope I don’t feel anymore dejection.

A11YourBase

[edit]
I have created a new thread for people who understand and want to discuss the current system to keep this one clear for people that dont. It would be great to have a discussion and get some other peoples views and ideas. http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=15668083
[/edit]


[Edited on 12.20.2007 3:22 AM PST]

  • 12.20.2007 2:17 AM PDT
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.

Shameless plug for my blog:

Check it!

wow, thanks a lot, just wondering I havent moved passed a level 36 in either Team Slayer OR Team Doubles and I have had consistant winning streaks in Team Doubles and more spasmodic results in Team Slayer. So the more spasmodic results would cause a low sigma correct? And my fluidity in rank in doubles would cause a high sigma? If so then how come I have not ranked up in either, if I have a low in one and a high in another then surely one of them must work in my favour. You can't have 2 unfavourable instances or the ranking system wouldn't work. So can you help me with this? Please reply as I am somewhat stuck....

thanks

  • 12.20.2007 2:52 AM PDT
Subject: Yea only one problem it dosent work all the time!
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

this post does make sense

i hear comments / complaints / whinges on this subject from nearly all gamers i play with online

some come from confused and disgruntled people who are in the dark completely about how the ranking system works but a great percentage come from people that have an understanding of how the system is intended to function and appreciate what sigma and mu are supposed to do

the second group are far more confused about the situation after experience proves to them that the system is inconsistent and inaccurate, this is creating a groundswell of ill feeling, disillusionment and aids (just joking, more accurately a sense of being taken advantage of)

the game is fun but people do take the 'work' they put in very seriously indeed and they do not wish for the time spent to be wasted in any way

  • 12.20.2007 3:44 AM PDT
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Kr33at0r
I have read your post but am having a huge problem that I dont understand. Me and my friend both made new accounts to get to high ranks without having many losses. So far we have one EVERY SINGLE slayer match we have played. I currently have 56 xp with 61 total games played and the only losses being 3 in hardcore due to extremely bad players on our team and 2 in doubles. We have played together the entire time but he is a 27 and I am a mere 10. We currently have about a 20 or so game win streak. I was stuck at 7 for about 10 games then went up to 8. Then 10 games more and I go up to a 10. Why does he keep going up so fast while I am stuck at this low level. I gain levels faster on my 41 for christs sake. This is rediculous

thanks


I think i can answer this for you. There are a few problems with the current system that have been talked about that are explained in this thread if you care to search. Playing with only the same people, playing in mixed parties and winning all of your games. Now i am no expert but if you dont fit into one of the categories above then i dont know who does. My best guess for your TS rank is that your mate played a few games with some 45 - 50 guys before he teamed up with you on these accounts. You have only ever played with him which may be why he has ranked as expected and you are stuck. Try playing a few with other people then teaming back up. Same in Doubles. According to a post in this thread if the system cant judge you playing with different people it cant judge you very well at all. Apparently they are working on it.
Also for the Doubles it may be because you have won all your games...try losing a few is the best advice i have heard!

[Edited on 12.21.2007 4:03 AM PST]

  • 12.20.2007 3:51 AM PDT