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  • Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
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losing a few games - you mean to give the system some further information to give a frame of reference when you win?

would it be more sensible to lose to low ranking players (to give greater variance) or to higher ranking players (to limit ranking damage)

the only downfall of losing to higher ranking players would be that the system would be more likely to expect it so it would fit into it's standard formula and have little effect - would you agree?

  • 12.20.2007 3:57 AM PDT
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Posted by: BadmiralUK
losing a few games - you mean to give the system some further information to give a frame of reference when you win?

would it be more sensible to lose to low ranking players (to give greater variance) or to higher ranking players (to limit ranking damage)

the only downfall of losing to higher ranking players would be that the system would be more likely to expect it so it would fit into it's standard formula and have little effect - would you agree?


The specific problem of winning all your games, I believe, the system deems as unreliable data and losing may be for a frame of reference although I have read nothing to support this, just that players that have won all there games have not ranked up as expected.

I have not read anything that specifies if it might be beneficial to lose to higher or lower ranking players, however, it might make a difference particularly if Bungie's version of the Trueskill system does infact increase the sigma value in some situations. I have not read anything that supports this.

The Trueskill system is just an equation that takes into account who wins and the respective Mu and Sigma values of each player/team. It does not remember whether you are more likely to beat a team who is better than you. That would be extremely complicated and not something beneficial in calculating how good a player/team is.



[Edited on 12.20.2007 4:32 AM PST]

  • 12.20.2007 4:29 AM PDT
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So... Bungie has one system that's supposed to work for all game types.
That makes absolutely no sense.
How does a lone wolf even come close to a team player.
That's like having an assasin compared to a hit squad.
Seriously - see who has more skill.
And they aren't wolves because wolves hunt in packs...
and the lone just gets 0wn3d - natural selection - we survive as a unit.
You just can't compare them - and you can't convince me or anyone else logically.
Strategic warfare - that's what teams are.
It's not committing suicide because "Only the fools rush in" - Bungie
So why are you telling me that people that draw the other team out are what count?
Doesn't make sense in the real world teams so why apply it here.
Unless your suicidal and in that case - seek help.
This forum honestly is a waste of time if you want help with skill increase.
You can't argue your case because nothing will change.
Good luck yall - I'm out.

  • 12.20.2007 6:25 AM PDT
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Well done sir i can rest easy now .

  • 12.20.2007 7:17 AM PDT

Posted by: A11YourBase
The Trueskill system is just an equation that takes into account who wins and the respective Mu and Sigma values of each player/team. It does not remember whether you are more likely to beat a team who is better than you. That would be extremely complicated and not something beneficial in calculating how good a player/team is.
TrueSkill calculates who should win prior to the game happening by using the Mu and Sigma of each participant. If it thinks you should win and you do, you get a smaller amount of Mu increase compared to if it thinks your should lose and you win. This is why it is important to to beat teams equal or higher than you and not lose to teams lower than you. It also is putting you in matches with participants who have a greater Sigma than you as "tests" so to speak. Early on you, when your Sigma is high, you are matched with players who are at the same level as you but have a lower Sigma. The system is sure of their rank and if you beat them, it knows to keep your Sigma higher because you haven't got to a point where it is certain of your skill yet.

Yes, there are some things about the system that are funky and just plain suck for some. Mixed skilled parties having trouble leveling is a good example of something they know is an issue. I believe they may also be basing Mu calculation of parties as well, only a theory but I think so and would explain why playing with randoms often times will get a player up quicker than playing in a party. The system will try to find you a match based on party size and if it can't, I think you get a "low quality" match where it doesn't adjust Mu much.

One thing to keep in mind is this system was designed using H2 MM data. They took a look at all the problems with H2 skill system and created this system. I think people level up quickly and assume they are going to move up quickly no matter what. In H2, you still had to play a hell of a lot of games to get in to the 30's and 40's. I got there in like 60 games (not all wins) in H3 and have been bouncing back and fourth between 42 and 43 since. In H2, 60 wins (wins not games) would have got me like level 15. I find that although I would love to be a 50, I am not winning consistently enough to move up.

If you've played 500 games and have been winning like 60%, going on a streak of 10 games is not going to move you much. If you start winning 80% of your games, you WILL go up but it's going to be baby steps. If you play badly at first and get better. Again, you will go up but it's going to be slow going. MS states that after the system is confident in your skill level, it's going to take at least 50 games for it to recognize a substantial skill change when playing 4v4. I looked at a ton of stats and see players get to the 40's in 100 games of TS. They won 80-90% of their games. If you are a level 25 and you only win 60% of your games, are you really better than a 25. I think you should win 80-90% to go up and prove you are playing better than a 25.

As far as I know, all Xbox Live games use the TrueSkill system. I think it is better than the H2 system, all things considered. I know a lot of people don't get it and that is the downside of showing people their "rank". Everyone wants a high number and compare numbers and what not but the goal is really to get you good, fun, competitive matches. I have far few one-sided games in H3 compared to H2 and many more close, hard battles. If Bungie/MS gets a few of these weird issues ironed out, it will make it a little less frustrating for a lot of people.

  • 12.20.2007 8:14 AM PDT

Posted by: KA0S777
So... Bungie has one system that's supposed to work for all game types.
That makes absolutely no sense.
How does a lone wolf even come close to a team player.
That's like having an assasin compared to a hit squad.
Seriously - see who has more skill.
And they aren't wolves because wolves hunt in packs...
and the lone just gets 0wn3d - natural selection - we survive as a unit.
You just can't compare them - and you can't convince me or anyone else logically.
Strategic warfare - that's what teams are.
It's not committing suicide because "Only the fools rush in" - Bungie
So why are you telling me that people that draw the other team out are what count?
Doesn't make sense in the real world teams so why apply it here.
Unless your suicidal and in that case - seek help.
This forum honestly is a waste of time if you want help with skill increase.
You can't argue your case because nothing will change.
Good luck yall - I'm out.
Since you're out you probably won't see this but WTF are you trying to say? What is hard to understand about winning and losing? If you play FFA, win. If you play team games, help your team win. The skill system is all automatic so thinking someone is going to adjust your skill manually is just silly. I looked at your stats and you're not winning all the time or even more than losing so you want a skill increase why?

  • 12.20.2007 8:19 AM PDT
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He's talking about me and the rest of the people that get shafted - NOT himself.
It's the kind of thing where you play 5 teamslayers and lose 1 and you go down.
Can you honestly compare lone wolves to team slayer?
No, so how can you expect the same governing system to work.
It's like apples and oranges.

800 pound gorilla

  • 12.20.2007 12:09 PM PDT
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so i have to focus just on lone wolfs then k thanx

  • 12.20.2007 12:18 PM PDT
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do you know why some people can level up because of skill level and others have to work their expeirence up to level a rank up

  • 12.20.2007 1:16 PM PDT

Posted by: KA0S777
So... Bungie has one system that's supposed to work for all game types.
That makes absolutely no sense.
I believe you are responding to my post on the last page. Quoting my post really helps reduce the confusion on where you are coming from. That said I still have a hard time understanding what you are trying to say.

Yes, Bungie does have 1 system that works for all gametypes. It's called TrueSkill and it works pretty effectivly in determining your approximate skill level relative to all others. It works on the principle that a skilled player will help their team win more often then a less skilled player. That principle holds true whether you are a team of 1, 2, 4, or 8 and it's true regardless of if you are slaying, capturing a flag, planting a bomb, defending a hill, or even playing a game of rocket race. This principle was also the backbone of the system for Halo 2. But I guess a principle that worked so well for 3 years all of a sudden can't hack it. The principle has been tried and tested. It works.

Posted by: KA0S777
How does a lone wolf even come close to a team player.
That's like having an assasin compared to a hit squad.
Seriously - see who has more skill.
And they aren't wolves because wolves hunt in packs...
and the lone just gets 0wn3d - natural selection - we survive as a unit.
You just can't compare them - and you can't convince me or anyone else logically.
Strategic warfare - that's what teams are.
It's not committing suicide because "Only the fools rush in" - Bungie
So why are you telling me that people that draw the other team out are what count?
Doesn't make sense in the real world teams so why apply it here.
Unless your suicidal and in that case - seek help.
I'm not sure where this rant comes from or what you are addressing so I'll ignore it as nonsense until you can make more sense of it.

Posted by: KA0S777
This forum honestly is a waste of time if you want help with skill increase.
Aparently you are confused why this thread was created. If you want to know how to increase your skill talk to someone who can teach you to play better. That's not what this thread is for. Some people actually aren't increasing there skill level because of known issues with the system. For them we've tried to help explain the issue and let them know this isn't the way it's supposed to work. Bungie is working on fixing those problems. You however are not one of those people.

Posted by: KA0S777
You can't argue your case because nothing will change.
Good luck yall - I'm out.
I can argue my case. Weather you are willing to open your mind and listen is the question. You don't have to agree, but I don't feel like you've even tried to understand. I understand the system as best I can. I understand the principles and how it works. I understand the issues plaguing the current implementation of the system and I understand those issues aren't due to the TrueSkill system itself. I'm aware of the pros and cons. I've played the game and experienced the system first hand. It works great as far as I'm concerned. It's unfortunate there are some issues causing headaches but they'll hopefully be ironed out. You are right about one thing though..."nothing will change". Bungie will not drop the TrueSkill system. Aside from tweaking it to improve it, nothing is going to change. Love it or hate it...it's here to stay.

[Edited on 12.20.2007 9:02 PM PST]

  • 12.20.2007 2:09 PM PDT

Posted by: s0uldj3r777
He's talking about me and the rest of the people that get shafted - NOT himself.
It's the kind of thing where you play 5 teamslayers and lose 1 and you go down.
Can you honestly compare lone wolves to team slayer?
No, so how can you expect the same governing system to work.
It's like apples and oranges.

800 pound gorilla
I looked through some of your games and you still seem to be jumping up and down quickly when you are playing with people around the same skill as you. A couple times in the last few day you have jumped 2 levels. The whole winning and losing streak discussion has happened no less than 20 times in this thread and it always ends the same way. If you play in a mixed skilled party (more than 5 levels difference from what I have seen) - prepare to be "shafted" cause you will not move up quickly. If you win 5 games against teams the system thinks you should win anyway, you will not go up fast. If you lose one game against a team the system thinks you should win, you WILL go down.

If you are saying that the system can't work for teams because it was designed for FFA only, you're wrong. It's not apples and oranges because of this one fact. You win against equal or higher skilled opponents, you go up. You lose against lower skilled opponents, you go down. This applies to FFA and team games. If you want more of an explanation, GO HERE and read it for yourself. We are not making this stuff up. You can no longer only consider winning and losing. You have to also consider the opponents skill level.

If you don't like the system fine but I have not seen one post complaining about how they jump up 2,3,4 levels at a time when they start out. When they get to 30-40 in 75 games, it's all good. Some posters have had valid complaints and these specific issues are being addressed by Bungie. 90% of things people think are happening are explained in this thread - in the OP for that matter.

  • 12.20.2007 2:27 PM PDT

Posted by: A11YourBase
Posted by: BadmiralUK
losing a few games - you mean to give the system some further information to give a frame of reference when you win?

would it be more sensible to lose to low ranking players (to give greater variance) or to higher ranking players (to limit ranking damage)

the only downfall of losing to higher ranking players would be that the system would be more likely to expect it so it would fit into it's standard formula and have little effect - would you agree?


The specific problem of winning all your games, I believe, the system deems as unreliable data and losing may be for a frame of reference although I have read nothing to support this, just that players that have won all there games have not ranked up as expected.
I believe the problem with winning to much is that you end up in mismatches. I say "winning to much" because I've seen people who have in fact lost level very slowly. This tends to be very noticible in players who win about 90%+ of there games. I also have read nothing that states losses are necessary for TrueSkill to evaluate a player properly. I don't think losses are necessary or even what's causing the problem. In fact I believe the problem doesn't lie with TrueSkill at all. The problem actually occurs in the matching process. I believe the MM system in this particular case isn't identifying opponents properly. The games end up being mismatches and therefore no information can be learned and the winning team just spins it's wheels. I presented my theory on how this might happen here. It's the second to last post. This is just my theory based on some knowledge of the system and something Lukems had said in another thread mentioning that the problems were due to "poor match quality".

**EDIT**

I read this the other day and I think it should be of some interest. I think it shows an interesting difference in how new players (to a playlist) are being matched in MM vs. what microsoft has to say about it.

source
Q: I am playing my first ranked game in a game mode. Will I be matched more likely with another player new to the game mode or with someone else?

A: When you play your first ranked game in a game mode, the TrueSkill ranking system assigns you a mean skill level μ in the middle of the leaderboard but a maximal variance σ2 of skills; it's your first game so the ranking system should reflect its lack of knowledge. Now, the TrueSkill ranking matchmaking criterion takes its maximal value for other players with the same mean skill level μ but a small variance σ2. Thus, if available, you will be matched with another player in the middle of the leaderboard but with a much smaller σ2: a player of established average skill.

Why is this better than matching you with someone else new to the game? Well, this other player may, in fact, be one of the most skilled players (who just happened not to have played the game mode yet) whereas you really are a beginner. Then, you two are (up to) 50 skill levels apart. Matching you with someone who is an established average player guarantees that your skill level gap is never bigger than 25 levels.


If I am interpreting this correctly when I start a new playlist I should be matched with established players who are 25's if available. This makes a lot of sense. Most people will be around average and the system actually assumes you are at the start, however, you are given a high uncertainty because you've never played a game. So why not match a new player with known people who are really average ie. 25's with very low uncertainty. This would ensure the biggest possible difference is 25 levels instead of a potential 50 levels. However that's not what happens. Players in fact are matched with other 1's who are probably new to the playlist as well or could be really 1's. Either way it's not an ideal match. I think the documented approach is a better approach and should even solve the problem of "poor quality matches".


[Edited on 12.20.2007 9:09 PM PST]

  • 12.20.2007 3:28 PM PDT
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I agree with 2faced. I was playing mostly ranked at the start, got to a 22 and played mostly social... then i would go back and forth, at around 480 exp I went back to playing ranked to get "major"... it took me 12 games in a row to go to a 23.. i won 2more, then lost and was a 22. The past 2 nights ive been only doing ranked and my exp is around 630 im a 27/28 STAFF CAPTAIN. SUCKS... i feel like its going to take 30 games in a row to rank up to a 30. I play with people always higher ranked then me, my friend MR AZURE is a 33 so were always playing better people. There's definitely something missing with the "Trueskill" rating system. Im ready to cancel my account and start over I may hit the 30 faster lol.

  • 12.20.2007 3:43 PM PDT
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this is a very good in debth explination to the levels, although i understand most of what was being said, on that note on my second account as a level 5 against higher levels there is no reason it should take 30+ wins to level up. check my record if you don't believe me " insane snipa " gamertag. i have no problem ranking up in team doubles or anything else. i'm a level 46 on my other account in slayer but barely made it past level 5 after playing almost 90 games and winning over 30+ and not losing one in team slayer.

[Edited on 12.20.2007 3:55 PM PST]

  • 12.20.2007 3:54 PM PDT

Posted by: NICE18
I agree with 2faced. I was playing mostly ranked at the start, got to a 22 and played mostly social... then i would go back and forth, at around 480 exp I went back to playing ranked to get "major"... it took me 12 games in a row to go to a 23.. i won 2more, then lost and was a 22. The past 2 nights ive been only doing ranked and my exp is around 630 im a 27/28 STAFF CAPTAIN. SUCKS... i feel like its going to take 30 games in a row to rank up to a 30. I play with people always higher ranked then me, my friend MR AZURE is a 33 so were always playing better people. There's definitely something missing with the "Trueskill" rating system. Im ready to cancel my account and start over I may hit the 30 faster lol.
Looking at your games shows little different reality. What I saw was you winning 10 games in a row and moving from a 21-24. You did lose the 24 after the next loss but you gained it back after just 1 win (you were probably on the border). After that you won some and lost some and ultimatly won about 62% of the next 45 games. You reached a 28 but due to losing 7 of your last 9 games you dropped to a 26. All told in your last 55 games you've moved up up 4 levels and won about 70% of those games. That might seem slow, but you also have to consider almost all those games were played in a mixed party where you were the high rank. This is definitly going to slow you down. I'm not sure who "MR AZURE" is but I didn't see you playing with such a person. You were definitly the high rank in just about all those games. Your past history might also shed some light on the speed in which you can rank. If it took you a while to get to 22 things will naturally be slower. I didn't look at your past history though so I don't know if that has much to do with it, but that's also something to consider.

[Edited on 12.20.2007 5:17 PM PST]

  • 12.20.2007 4:16 PM PDT
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Hope for the best.
Prepare for the worst.

nice

[Edited on 12.20.2007 4:41 PM PST]

  • 12.20.2007 4:39 PM PDT
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Glad someones done this. Hopefully people will stop asking so many questions about it now. Nice

  • 12.20.2007 5:09 PM PDT

Shameless plug for my blog:

Check it!

so basically me and my friend are not levelling up due to a few reasons:

a) we are of mixed skill when we play together

b) we have been playing many social matches, equivalent or more amounts to our ranked (does this effect ranking up?)

c) we are not beating people of a high enough skill level (only people of similar rank, so our ranking up is slowed)

Am I correct then, in saying that if i go off and play with someone of the same skill, play less social and then beat people of a higher skill level then myself with said person; I will rank up? Or does my sigma need to rebalance in order for this to happen?

  • 12.20.2007 9:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: KA0S777
How does a lone wolf even come close to a team player.
That's like having an assasin compared to a hit squad.
Seriously - see who has more skill.
And they aren't wolves because wolves hunt in packs...
and the lone just gets 0wn3d - natural selection - we survive as a unit.
You just can't compare them - and you can't convince me or anyone else logically.
Strategic warfare - that's what teams are.
It's not committing suicide because "Only the fools rush in" - Bungie
So why are you telling me that people that draw the other team out are what count?
Doesn't make sense in the real world teams so why apply it here.
Unless your suicidal and in that case - seek help.


Posted by: TwoFaced1680
I'm not sure where this rant comes from or what you are addressing so I'll ignore it as nonsense until you can make more sense of it.


I don't understand what you don't understand. But then again you must be a very happy person all the time.
Oh ya, the system works alright - that's why you have 10 million people complaining and asking the same questions a million times over.
Is that your measure for success?

"Your right, I get it. It all makes sense your the perfect person. So right, so wrong. Let's all live in your imaginary life" - Chevelle

  • 12.21.2007 6:16 AM PDT

http://www.bungie.net/stats/PlayerStatsHalo3.aspx?player=II%2 0V%20DuB%20II
Team BRs 12/20/2007 8:10:46 PM The Pit Team Slayer 1st preview
Team Slayer 12/20/2007 8:00:13 PM High Ground Team Slayer 1st preview
Team BRs 12/20/2007 7:50:18 PM Standoff Team Slayer 1st preview
Team BRs 12/20/2007 7:38:25 PM High Ground Team Slayer 1st preview
Team Slayer 12/20/2007 7:21:16 PM Guardian Team Slayer 1st preview
Team BRs 12/20/2007 7:14:04 PM Foundry Team Slayer 1st preview
Team Snipers 12/20/2007 7:06:52 PM Standoff Team Slayer 1st preview
Team BRs 12/20/2007 6:58:57 PM Guardian Team Slayer 1st preview
Team Slayer 12/20/2007 6:50:08 PM Guardian Team Slayer 1st preview
Team Slayer 12/20/2007 6:42:49 PM Isolation Team Slayer 1st preview
Team Slayer 12/20/2007 6:33:27 PM Construct Team Slayer 1st preview
Team Slayer 12/20/2007 6:23:49 PM Construct Team Slayer 1st preview
Team BRs 12/20/2007 6:13:48 PM Snowbound Team Slayer 1st preview
Team BRs 12/20/2007 6:05:10 PM High Ground Team Slayer 1st preview
Team Snipers 12/20/2007 5:55:40 PM Valhalla Team Slayer 1st preview
Team BRs 12/20/2007 5:48:24 PM High Ground Team Slayer 1st preview
Team BRs 12/20/2007 5:39:43 PM The Pit Team Slayer 1st preview
Team BRs 12/20/2007 5:28:36 PM Construct Team Slayer 1st preview

After winning 18 games in a row I only moved up 1 level from a 45 to a 46 and my buddy who started out a 29 that night reached a 43....


  • 12.21.2007 7:19 AM PDT
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Dude, that is SOOOOooo wrong - I really feel for you man... Only thing I can say is pair up with some 50's and play. Your sure to go up if you win from my experience. I would make sure you ONLY have people that are at YOUR level or > greater on your team. Oh, ya and then if the search engine doesn't SCREW you... you might play against people "worthy" enough.

BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE! ! !

  • 12.21.2007 9:15 AM PDT

Posted by: II V DuB II
http://www.bungie.net/stats/PlayerStatsHalo3.aspx?player=II%2 0V%20DuB%20II
Team BRs 12/20/2007 8:10:46 PM The Pit Team Slayer 1st preview
Team Slayer 12/20/2007 8:00:13 PM High Ground Team Slayer 1st preview
Team BRs 12/20/2007 7:50:18 PM Standoff Team Slayer 1st preview
Team BRs 12/20/2007 7:38:25 PM High Ground Team Slayer 1st preview
Team Slayer 12/20/2007 7:21:16 PM Guardian Team Slayer 1st preview
Team BRs 12/20/2007 7:14:04 PM Foundry Team Slayer 1st preview
Team Snipers 12/20/2007 7:06:52 PM Standoff Team Slayer 1st preview
Team BRs 12/20/2007 6:58:57 PM Guardian Team Slayer 1st preview
Team Slayer 12/20/2007 6:50:08 PM Guardian Team Slayer 1st preview
Team Slayer 12/20/2007 6:42:49 PM Isolation Team Slayer 1st preview
Team Slayer 12/20/2007 6:33:27 PM Construct Team Slayer 1st preview
Team Slayer 12/20/2007 6:23:49 PM Construct Team Slayer 1st preview
Team BRs 12/20/2007 6:13:48 PM Snowbound Team Slayer 1st preview
Team BRs 12/20/2007 6:05:10 PM High Ground Team Slayer 1st preview
Team Snipers 12/20/2007 5:55:40 PM Valhalla Team Slayer 1st preview
Team BRs 12/20/2007 5:48:24 PM High Ground Team Slayer 1st preview
Team BRs 12/20/2007 5:39:43 PM The Pit Team Slayer 1st preview
Team BRs 12/20/2007 5:28:36 PM Construct Team Slayer 1st preview

After winning 18 games in a row I only moved up 1 level from a 45 to a 46 and my buddy who started out a 29 that night reached a 43....


Playing in a party with a skill level difference of 15 levels will severely hamper your progression. You must play and win games against opponents of equal or higher skill than you. With this very low level on your team, your were getting matches against lower average skill teams. Bungie has also stated this is an issue (playing in mixed skilled teams) and they are looking at ways to improve this.

  • 12.21.2007 10:35 AM PDT
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That sucks when you can't go up in rank if you are playing with lower ranks on your team. The ranking should be based on individual effort in combination with a victory. A VERY simple regression equation could have been developed and tweaked in Beta to make the ranking an actual ranking. Not this (Mu) and (Sigma) second rate math BS!

Simple: assign weights for kills, deaths, wins, losses, headshots, assists, etc. and bam you get your rank, with an UNLIMITED ceiling. (I work with the types of models daily, and they take hardly any computing power to calculate) There is no need in putting an arbitrary highest rank possible. Why not find out who the best really is and how bad I really am.

Bungie should outsource their ranking system to a reputable company that deals with top prospecting or other measure to determine the best!

OR

We could just click our controllers and kill each other. I'm cool with either. :-)

  • 12.21.2007 10:39 AM PDT

Posted by: s0uldj3r777
Dude, that is SOOOOooo wrong - I really feel for you man... Only thing I can say is pair up with some 50's and play. Your sure to go up if you win from my experience. I would make sure you ONLY have people that are at YOUR level or > greater on your team. Oh, ya and then if the search engine doesn't SCREW you... you might play against people "worthy" enough.

BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE! ! !
I know your frustrated dude but do you really think that if you are a 45, you play and win against 40's, you should go up to 46? Do you think you should be rewarded for winning no matter what the skill level of your opponent is? If you are a 45 and lose to 50's should you go down?

The MM process is a balance of good matches and short wait times. It tries to find a match of closest skill first. If that fails, it then broadens the skill max and minimums. If you are upset about getting matched with lower skilled players or higher skilled players, set the option for closest skill by hitting the 'X'. You may wait longer to get a game but it may be worth it for you.

  • 12.21.2007 10:44 AM PDT

Posted by: LochNess22
That sucks when you can't go up in rank if you are playing with lower ranks on your team. The ranking should be based on individual effort in combination with a victory. A VERY simple regression equation could have been developed and tweaked in Beta to make the ranking an actual ranking. Not this (Mu) and (Sigma) second rate math BS!

Simple: assign weights for kills, deaths, wins, losses, headshots, assists, etc. and bam you get your rank, with an UNLIMITED ceiling. (I work with the types of models daily, and they take hardly any computing power to calculate) There is no need in putting an arbitrary highest rank possible. Why not find out who the best really is and how bad I really am.

Bungie should outsource their ranking system to a reputable company that deals with top prospecting or other measure to determine the best!

OR

We could just click our controllers and kill each other. I'm cool with either. :-)
It's not 3 or 4 skill levels difference, it's 5 or more from my experience. Also, it's not that you don't go up, it's more like you go up slower.

Ranking someone individually is not always that easy in a team situation and becomes even more difficult for non-slayer gametypes. The guy on my team who may not have the most kills, but has a lot of assists or does spotting for the sniper is just as important as the sniper who gets 15 kills. No matter how far you break it down your still have to quantify how much each stat matters. I think it's totally better to use the team outcome instead of the individual outcome. Saying it's simple is being a little short-sighted in my opinion and anything crunching numbers for a million users a day is going to take some computing power.

Also, Bungie didn't create this system, Microsoft did using H2 MM data. They took at look at all the problems with that system and developed a way to "do it better". Not everyone feels that way but that is how it happened. This system is already complicated and your suggestion would further complicate it. It may seem like an easy task to compute individual stats but I don't think it is. Also, the main reason for having a skill cap is keeping searches quicker. Having no top limit on skill wouldn't make it better, only slower.

  • 12.21.2007 11:05 AM PDT