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  • Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
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That was more than enough info for something that couldn't be more confusing. Too bad it took some one who plays to explain it than someone who helped make the system. Good Job!

  • 01.03.2008 12:14 PM PDT
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So, someone justify this to me. My friends account is lost in xbox live purgatory, and so he buys a new account. Now he has to start all over with ranking and experience. We play double team, which I was a 45 in. We play over 30 games together and win every time. We are equal in skill and kills. He's now a 47. I'm a 46. He doesn't play double team unless I play. How is this fair, how does this make sense?

  • 01.03.2008 6:50 PM PDT
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I've been level 31 for a while in doubles. Yesterday I won 9 games in a row and didn't level up once. My partner went up 10 levels.

Today I did team slayer with him. I am also 31 in team slayer. He was 37. After the night, he's 40 and I'm still 31.

Is there no hope for me?

  • 01.03.2008 8:30 PM PDT
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What............................................was that......................................................... ............................................................. ............................................................. ............................................................. ............................................................. ............................................................. ....................................

  • 01.03.2008 9:39 PM PDT
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OH yeah!!!!!!
and jigollo makes the master cheif fell -blam!- feeling to those he kills ... the higher the jigollo.....the more a -blam!- act happens......IN GEEK terms, this is also knows as TEEEEAAAAAABBBBBAAAAAAAGGGGGG

  • 01.03.2008 9:44 PM PDT

i only read the first page so im basing this post on the topic and naku's thread. i do indeed understand the system, but i don't agree with it.

sure, it's bad when you have high sigma cause you can drop really easily. but it shouldn't be like that like naku said.

kinda ridiculous cause my team slayer is at 30 right now. and i should probably be at 40 by the way i play. if i made a new name and started to play it i could easily get to 45 cause my stigma would be high and i know i can kill everyone. again like naku said, if your good with high stigma, you will only lose occasionally. so i can easily go from 30...then 31...then 32...then 33....oh wait...i lost a rank...back to 32....but now i go on a winning streak again....33...34...35....36....37...back to 36.....37...38....and so on all in a matter of 15 games. where as when your stigma is low you will have to win 15 games just to rank twice.

idk....im pretty sure that i understand the system, and if i am understanding it, which im pretty sure i do, i just dont agree with it that you cant rank up fast just because you've played a lot of games and your stigma isnt high like a new player's is

  • 01.04.2008 8:49 AM PDT

Posted by: LeTrompe
So, someone justify this to me. My friends account is lost in xbox live purgatory, and so he buys a new account. Now he has to start all over with ranking and experience. We play double team, which I was a 45 in. We play over 30 games together and win every time. We are equal in skill and kills. He's now a 47. I'm a 46. He doesn't play double team unless I play. How is this fair, how does this make sense?
I am not going to justify it to you. I understand you don't think it's fair but this is the way this system works. A new account with few games will level up and down much faster than an account with a lot of games. On your account, you've had a lot of games so it will take more wins to go up. If you think about it, it makes sense. A new account that wins all the time will be leveled up quickly because the system is trying to get that account to the proper skill level. An account that has had a staggered win/loss history will be leveld up slower. It may suck from your perspective but that's how it is.

  • 01.04.2008 9:22 AM PDT

Posted by: Timtaztix
I've been level 31 for a while in doubles. Yesterday I won 9 games in a row and didn't level up once. My partner went up 10 levels.

Today I did team slayer with him. I am also 31 in team slayer. He was 37. After the night, he's 40 and I'm still 31.

Is there no hope for me?
If it is your linked GT, you played 7 games and won 5 in TD. He has fewer games played on his account so the system is still trying to determine his proper skill level. You've had a high number of games on your account so it will take more wins for you to level up. In TS, it looks like you played about 8 games and won 5. You will have to win consistently against higher or equally skilled opponents to move up. He on the other hand, can go up or down after each win and loss until he gets a few more games in.

  • 01.04.2008 9:31 AM PDT
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I have a question for you guys... This is actually my first post here.

I have 96EXP points and my highest level is a 13 (or 14) on Lone Wolves. I'm a Lieutenant Grade 2, and it says I need either 200 EXP for a Grade 3, or a level 20 and 100EXP.

So what if I get 100 EXP before I reach level 20? What would happen then?

Thanks. Also, if you guys don't mind, check out my records and tell me if I'm any good. I started playing Halo this summer, and I never really played it a lot until I got an Xbox two weeks ago.

  • 01.04.2008 12:33 PM PDT

if you get 100 exp before 20 skill then you'll stay a grade 2 lieutenant until either you get the 20 skill or 200 exp.

and this probably isn't the best place to ask a question like this.

  • 01.04.2008 4:25 PM PDT
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Ok, if this magic system of 'mu' and 'sigma' really does work, explain this to me:
I play 7 games, win each and every one, leveling me up each time till I hit level 29.
I then win a further 4 games in row without leveling up, understandable, due to me sigma now being low, apparantly.
I then lose again. I go down 1 level, no biggy, losing one game would do little to effect my sigma? Right?
Ok, now considering that, explain the following...
I play the next game and rank up to 29 again. In one game. With supposedly low sigma. Lets call this "The Beginning"
I then lose again, and rank down again. Lets call this "point A"
I then play again and rank up. Lets call this "point B"
I then play another 4 games without ranking up to 30. Lets call this "point C"
I then play again and rank down. Finally, lets call this one "point D"

If this system really works, at point C, where my sigma must have been high to be leveled down in a 1 game at point A and up a level in 1 game at point B, just HOW THE -blam!- can you justify me not leveling up to 30 at point C?!
Judging by the system, I MUST have high sigma by point C, due fluctuations in gameplay from the beginning through to point B, and the fact that the system saw fit to rank me down after 1 bloody game at point A, and it also saw fit to rank me up again after 1 game at point B PROVES that my sigma must have been high at the time.
Further proof of my sigma being high comes from point D. I ranked down after 1 game. After 4 wins at rank 29 and no rank up, I lose 1 MOTHER -blam!- GAME and I get ranked down.

Flawless system? I call bull-blam!-. It's biased as hell when you get to certain levels, and theres the god damn proof, otherwise I'd be browsing the forums as a Major, rather than writing this, as a Captain Grade 2.


[Edited on 01.04.2008 6:36 PM PST]

  • 01.04.2008 6:33 PM PDT

I don't know if anyone has asked this or brought this up throughout the 30-some pages of text, but did Halo 2 follow this same system?
Also, I know you said that the system doesn't count anything in game (ie: KD Ratio, Medals, etc.) but do suicides reflect on your Mu/Sigma at all?
And relating back to my Halo 2 question, I had an outrageous Halo 2 match where I had a de-ranker get -25 and me and my team still won the game, after that match I leveled, twice. if Halo 2 does follow the Mu/Sigma system, did this huge upset help me level? Or did it not have any effect on it at all?

[Edited on 01.04.2008 7:13 PM PST]

  • 01.04.2008 7:07 PM PDT
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well this helps alot ! ><

  • 01.04.2008 8:15 PM PDT
Subject: ranking system

cheers, helped a lot!

  • 01.04.2008 8:25 PM PDT
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Bungie's system is quite bad. I dont have Commando arms while i have 1000 GS and all skulls (including Silver) Ishould have it but i dont. So dont trust everything always goes fair in their system...

ow and i remember a moment back when i was like skill 20 in Lone Wolves. A few games in a row I ended up in the top 2 places. I didnt gone up a rank. Then I ended last with like 5 kills and i go up. Pretty weird if you ask me......

[Edited on 01.05.2008 2:41 AM PST]

  • 01.05.2008 2:38 AM PDT
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
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Thank you very much for postingt this, my firends complain to me all the time why my other account levels up way faster than their main. Now i have a great explanation to give them. Thanks again =].

  • 01.05.2008 6:05 AM PDT

Posted by: Jacob The Just
Ok, if this magic system of 'mu' and 'sigma' really does work, explain this to me:
I play 7 games, win each and every one, leveling me up each time till I hit level 29.
I then win a further 4 games in row without leveling up, understandable, due to me sigma now being low, apparantly.
I then lose again. I go down 1 level, no biggy, losing one game would do little to effect my sigma? Right?
Ok, now considering that, explain the following...
I play the next game and rank up to 29 again. In one game. With supposedly low sigma. Lets call this "The Beginning"
I then lose again, and rank down again. Lets call this "point A"
I then play again and rank up. Lets call this "point B"
I then play another 4 games without ranking up to 30. Lets call this "point C"
I then play again and rank down. Finally, lets call this one "point D"

If this system really works, at point C, where my sigma must have been high to be leveled down in a 1 game at point A and up a level in 1 game at point B, just HOW THE -blam!- can you justify me not leveling up to 30 at point C?!
Judging by the system, I MUST have high sigma by point C, due fluctuations in gameplay from the beginning through to point B, and the fact that the system saw fit to rank me down after 1 bloody game at point A, and it also saw fit to rank me up again after 1 game at point B PROVES that my sigma must have been high at the time.
Further proof of my sigma being high comes from point D. I ranked down after 1 game. After 4 wins at rank 29 and no rank up, I lose 1 MOTHER -blam!- GAME and I get ranked down.

Flawless system? I call bull-blam!-. It's biased as hell when you get to certain levels, and theres the god damn proof, otherwise I'd be browsing the forums as a Major, rather than writing this, as a Captain Grade 2.
Well, I looked through your game history and I couldn't see the situation you described. I saw a streak of 6 wins where you went up to 28 and then from there you won a couple, lost a couple, won one, lost one, etc. You probably still have a high sigma because you are generally leveling up and down quickly. Winning and losing in itself isn't the only thing that affects your sigma. It is lowered after every game a variable amount depending on if you performed how the system predicted and the sigma of your opponents. A small amount of sigma is also added after every game to keep it from getting to 0. There is no "rule" as to how fast it is lowered. If you play 30 games and perform how the system predicts each time, your sigma will be low. If you play 300 games and rarely perform how the system predicts, your sigma will still be higher.

Having a high sigma is not necessarily a good thing. If the system thinks you are a 40 but you have a high sigma, your displayed level may be a 30. Your displayed skill is the conservative representation of your Mu (real skill). As you play and your sigma is lowered, your displayed skill may be 35 while your Mu is 40 because your sigma is lower. There have been situations where people level up after a loss. This is because their sigma is lowered and their displayed skill is raised closer to their Mu.

One last thing to keep in mind before getting too upset. You must beat players at equal of higher skill to gain significant Mu and go up. From looking at your games you seem to win and lose in equal amounts. If you want to go up, you need to win against the higher skilled and not lose against the lower skilled opponents. I know this can be frustrating at times and when players start out, they level up quickly. When they suddenly don't level up after every 2 or 3 winds, they get upset. The point is to get players up quickly so that are not beating up on less skilled players for 100 games until they finally get moved up.

  • 01.05.2008 7:34 AM PDT

Posted by: garyBBQmann
I don't know if anyone has asked this or brought this up throughout the 30-some pages of text, but did Halo 2 follow this same system?
Also, I know you said that the system doesn't count anything in game (ie: KD Ratio, Medals, etc.) but do suicides reflect on your Mu/Sigma at all?
And relating back to my Halo 2 question, I had an outrageous Halo 2 match where I had a de-ranker get -25 and me and my team still won the game, after that match I leveled, twice. if Halo 2 does follow the Mu/Sigma system, did this huge upset help me level? Or did it not have any effect on it at all?
No, H2 used and experience points based system. You got or lost exp for winning or losing. In H2, you could beat lower skilled opponents and still gain levels. It also meant it took a lot of wins to get high in the levels. Once you got to like 20, it took 4-5 wins to go up one level. H2 did give you a variable amount of EXP depending on the level of your opponents. The de-ranker had no affect on your level.

Nothing is used when calculating your skill except winning or losing along with the Mu and sigma of your opponents in H3. If your team wins and one guy quit, that guy still can get credit for the win, just like in H2.

  • 01.05.2008 7:40 AM PDT
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Thanks a lot for this. It really goes into depth about how it works. Nicely done!

  • 01.05.2008 11:22 AM PDT

o RLY????

I win a game. I LOSE A LEVEL! THEY GAIN A LEVEL. Tell me where that fits in! honestly! Ive even leveled up when I've lost a game. My enemies level up when they lose against me. Please tell me where I am going wrong? Or is trueskill wrong? explain these problems.

[Edited on 01.05.2008 2:30 PM PST]

  • 01.05.2008 2:14 PM PDT
Subject: ok what about when u dlvl
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why is it easier to get back to that lvl than it was before?

  • 01.05.2008 6:53 PM PDT
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when u dlvl than lvl again why is it easier?

  • 01.05.2008 6:54 PM PDT
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.

Posted by: piemarz
I win a game. I LOSE A LEVEL! THEY GAIN A LEVEL. Tell me where that fits in! honestly! Ive even leveled up when I've lost a game. My enemies level up when they lose against me. Please tell me where I am going wrong? Or is trueskill wrong? explain these problems.
I only briefly looked through your games and I am assuming you are talking about your TD games. When you won and went down, you had a DNF and loss in the game just before. Sometimes games where you or your opponents have a DNF your skill level is not adjusted right away. There is a delay of a game or so if you play another one right away. Another reason has been explained in this thread many times. As you play more, your sigma is lowered bringing your displayed skill (conservative skill) closer to your Mu (Trueskill). If your Mu is much higher than your displayed skill, it will go up even after a loss if your sigma is lowered enough.

Have you gone and looked at the stats of the people you play and seen they have leveled up after losing to you? Tell me which games if you want an explanation because I am not going through all your games to find it. As I stated above, this may happen occasionally with DNF's which we have had a lot of the last week due to problems with Live.

  • 01.06.2008 7:51 AM PDT
Subject: ok what about when u dlvl
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Posted by: Ov3r Powered
why is it easier to get back to that lvl than it was before?


It isnt.

  • 01.06.2008 8:35 AM PDT
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
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OK explain this...

Today I've played 25 games straight of Lone Wolves. I've came in **1st place 22 times**, came 3rd twice and came **6th once due to being lagged out!**

When I started I was level 1, so how after that am I only a level 11!? Check my games played for proof.

  • 01.06.2008 10:42 AM PDT