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  • Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
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Ok... I don't get this at all. I made a new account called KontrabandX, and every team slayer game I have played I have won, a majority of them being by 20+ kills. I played at least 14 games, and I'm only a level 5... WTF. If someone could please explain this to me, I would deeply appreciate this.

  • 01.12.2008 10:28 PM PDT
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Posted by: Jay120171
Posted by: _Akira
Posted by: xIcarus187x
the system works fine for what it's intended to be like, maybe you don't agree with it, i sure don't, but it does work the way it's suppose to.


So... your saying Bungie intentionally made a flawed system. Well that sounds smart. Bungie broke with MS cause they forced TrueSkill down their throats. Bungie knew it didnt work right but they had no choice as all 360 titles "must" use that system. For Halo3 its basically one more flaw that prevents it from being the greatest shooter ever.

On a side note, "working as intended" ... are you kidding me? Unlucky players such as myself and many others work hard so that we win... and only to be rewarded with losing 2 levels after amassing 50 wins in a row... yeah great system.
If you want to give me your GT I will check it out for you. I looked on your linked GT and the only significant streak I saw was in Rumble Pit and that was because, well you know, plus it's not ranked. You did have a nice run in TS a while back but you leveled up without issue.

Also, you think TrueSkill was why Bungie and MS split? You start out saying Bungie made a flawed system and then go on to say MS made Bungie use it. Doesn't make much sense.


Ok explain how we win 4 games in a row 2 against higher ranks and 2 against lower ranks, then we lose to ranks 6+ levels higher and we drop a rank.
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=232962 479&player=Dark%20AgentPD

Also before that, we win 3 games in a row, 2 aginst lower ranks and 1 against higher ranks, then lose 1 game to a 50 and a 49 and we drop 2!! levels. Explain this Mr wizard.
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=232913 740&player=Dark%20AgentPD

  • 01.13.2008 1:05 AM PDT
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I have plaed for about 3 weeks now with the same highest skill which is 12 and most of the games we win and every game i play my kd spread is always positive and never negative it just does not make sense. And if u wanna check my profile my name is killer199586 on halo 3

  • 01.13.2008 4:15 AM PDT
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And why cant bungie just improve the system ? wouldnt that be the best thing to do so this doesnt happen on all the other xbox 360 games i mean, DUH!

  • 01.13.2008 4:18 AM PDT
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So Ive been thinking of this and compared myself to even more players and their stats, theres no pattern whatsoever so Ive come up with three possible explanations:

*The system is indeed broken and not able to calculate progress for all players. I dont think that is the case though.

*XBL is not or only partially updating. Halo 3 wouldnt be the first game to experience this. R6V had some major stats update issues and did everything from not updating to just updating certain things like deaths etc. The stats here on B.net seems to be accurate so the problem would be on M$´s table, this is what I personally think is the cause.

*Host is blocking stats updates in the post-game lobby. Ive found that im not increasing in level at all when im playing with certain players, i know for a fact that the guy im playing with the most is using a strict setting. When im in a party with him he´s able to level up and down while nothing ever happens to me, since we´re always winning hes now 20 lvls higher than me in certain playlists although we´ve played every game together. This seems far fetched and would require some random cross connection but from experience its starting to seem possible.

  • 01.13.2008 2:21 PM PDT

Posted by: Jay120171
Until these two issues are fixed, you are going to have to work around them if you want to go up quickly. Seeing as you are in the computer field, you should be familiar with workarounds until a more permanent solution can be found for the problem.

All I needed was confirmation that it was broken. Thanks. I realize you guys view boosting as a big problem or whatever... I've been very active in the competitive halo community for a very long time now so I know the details with it and why kids do it. But you cant penalize boosting to the point where your "fix" works to the detriment of other players. Those kids should not have had to keep playing us. I feel more bad for them than I am mad I didnt level up. I know Im better than the high level kids out there even tho I havent played this game nearly as much. I dont need a number by my name to make myself feel good. I honestly felt bad for all the kids we made quit. Just let the people who make new accounts level up normally/quickly. Let them get their levels, its better to just please them than make kids of unequal skill continue to play each other for so long. That is TRULY bad for you in the end. It makes the system not work and frustrates everyone.

Now that you/they recognize there is a problem then I'm done with this. It doesn't work and needs to be addressed.

  • 01.13.2008 3:00 PM PDT
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Answers everything I wanted to know about the ranking system. Nice.

  • 01.13.2008 5:26 PM PDT
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I have a quick question. Probably been answered before but anyway. Will your skill level increase if you are playing team games on rank playlists or is it only on lone wolves that your skill level will go up? I mean if you do pretty well on a team game should your skill level increase??

  • 01.13.2008 5:45 PM PDT

I understand mostly what you are saying by I still think the system is a little bogus and it should take kill to death ratio as a factor. Just because my Sigma is low or whatnot, I will level a lot slower than my friend with higher sigma does. Fair enough, I can live with that as long as I don't fall too far behind. The only problem with the system, in my opinion is I am consistently having positive kill to death ratios. +10, 9, 7, 8, etc. It's stupid how I won't level up faster than my friend who goes -6 or so in every game just because I am smart and I carry the team. If I am the reason the team is winning, I should be going up, not my friend who is just getting a free ticket up faster than I am going for not doing anything to help the team. In lone wolves, when I began playing, I though it was obvious it would be easy to level up in. I consistently had positive K/D ratios, which shows, hey, I am MUCH better than the people I am playing because I am doing way better than everyone else yet I level up way to slow compared to everyone else. It's hard for me to go into a game alone knowing I will most likely carry the team yet stay where I am at. If I get on a crappy team, I believe if you go positive K/D ratio, +5 or greater, you shouldn't be moving down. It's not your fault your teammates couldn't do their part. If you have a positive K/D ratio verse any team your level, in my opinion, it shows you are much better than them. It shows that hey, you are much better than these people so you should be moving through the system faster, but that isn't how it works.

I know the system doesn't take K/D ratio as a factor but it really should. It's not fair to those who are actually improving and the game but are having a hard time increasing their rank because of bad teammates or it just won't seem to go up. I am struggling to get to my 30. I am a 28 in double and in team slayer and now I won't go into any ranked game without a friend. How come I can play with my friends who are brigadiers and whatnot, rank of 40-42, so I am playing with higher ranks and kick their butt's while having a high kill to death ratio in the game but I struggle to get my rank high when in not many games, they could get it to 40-50. I know I am better than them, so why am I struggling to get up there when game after game, I play people of much higher rank who I absolutely kill? How was it so easy for them to get up there and I am struggling? It seems unfair to me that none of that is taken into account.

When I first started my account, I had horrible lag issues and could barely play half the game due to lag. (My screen would just cut out or there would be no one on the map except me for the first 6 min or so.) In the last 20 or so kills that I could play, lag free, I would rack up a decent amount of kills considering the time I had to do it in and still come in first or second in kills. Unfortunately, I believe it is because I didn't perform well from the start, due to my bad connection which I later found out how to fix that it is so terribly hard for me to level up compared to friends and others.
In my opinion, this is not how the system should work. I am better than the higher ranked players, my stats everytime I go into a game Vs. a much higher level player proves it. I consistently do better, proven by K/D ratios in game Vs. much higher levels, so why can I struggle to get to 30 when they got to 50 or 45? It's ridiculous. Just because I had a rough start, I can't get to 30 although I have proven I am much better than the higher ranked players?

In my opinion, the system should see this:
(Random Names)
Red Team:
Crazy Guy1 (40) 10 kills +1
Lazy Person (43) 7 kills 0
I am Funny (39) 7 kills 0
Gooo red team (41) 5 kills -8

Blue Team
ME (28) 12 kills +9
Friend of him (42) 8 kills +1
yeah yeah (29) 7 kills -4
i like cheese (45) 6 kills 0

This could be either social or ranked. If social, judge it by their highest skill.
Okay, so by looking at this, although I don't want to seem full of myself because it definetely doesn't always work out this way, but looking at these stats, I see the best player would be Me. I had a huge K/D ratio spread and am a way lower rank. I figure that I should be able to get to the rank of 40 or so with no problem at all because I am playing people that are 40's and totally killing them and proving it by my K/D spread. I would figure if I consistently go positive K/D ratio Vs. people that high, it shows that I am better than the 40's I am playing so I shouldn't be a 28 and it should move me through the ranks at a rapid rate. It should see that. Unfortunately, because I had a rough start, yeah yeah, who basically only gained rank because of me and the other teammates will rapidly go through the ranking system whereas I will slowly go up, very slowly. He could be a 40 before I finally get to 31. Yet, yeah yeah did nothing. He actually hurt our team, but he is still a 40. I helped the team greatly, pretty much brought the win "home" but didn't advance.

So by looking at that, it should take K/D ratio into consideration AND make it a huge factor. I find it unfair that I can play social games Vs. Brigadiers and prove I am better than them but have a hard time advancing through the system. I am tired of playing with my friends who are 40's and 30's and winning with a high K/D or losing but still have a high K/D spread but still have a hard time advancing whereas they don't. Another point which I wish to make is, say you were to go into the game alone. The people on your team are totally random and say you lost but you still had the +9 K/D spread. How fair is it for the system to drop you a rank? You are proving that although your team stunk, you still outdid the other team. You are still better than the other team. I understand the system not increasing your rank off a loss if you just went +9 but it sure shouldn't drop you. You are still showing, hey, I am better than the other team. My team just didn't do what they were supposed to. I shouldn't suffer for that.

That's just my two cents.
I'd appreciate if you didn't flame, I just want to get my point across.

  • 01.13.2008 8:35 PM PDT

Posted by: _Akira
Ok explain how we win 4 games in a row 2 against higher ranks and 2 against lower ranks, then we lose to ranks 6+ levels higher and we drop a rank.
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=232962 479&player=Dark%20AgentPD

Also before that, we win 3 games in a row, 2 aginst lower ranks and 1 against higher ranks, then lose 1 game to a 50 and a 49 and we drop 2!! levels. Explain this Mr wizard.
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=232913 740&player=Dark%20AgentPD

I don't have all the answers and I (we) don't know "exactly" how Bungie's implementation of TrueSkill works. Without it being laid out and described in detail, we can only make assumptions about what is going on. We know how it is explained on the MS site. We know how certain issues have cropped up and Bungie has stated they are looking in to it. We also know Bungie said they would not state exactly how it works to help eliminate manipulation.

Anyway, I looked through your history to see what the deal was. First off, I figure who is "higher" or "lower" ranks by looking at the average of the two people. I am not trying to nit pick you but some of those you stated as higher, I didn't see it that way. It is important to know the average ranks of your opponents to figure out what is happening to your Mu and Sigma.

I have noticed a ton of people lately who have been losing 1 game and taking a big hit. We (some of us in the Optimatch Forum) discussed this possibility a few months back. We surmised that once the game matured a little the rank system would start to "self-adjust" making it harder to level up and drop people quicker as more people reached the higher levels. This is total speculation but we did consider that possibility as the skill distributions are supposed to be in the shape of a bell. I have seen recently that losing 1 game can drop you a level even against higher skilled opponents. Why exactly this is I don't know, I can only give you a best guess. I believe it is more and more people having a low sigma and the system confident in their skill. It now has enough confident opponents to place you in "key" match-ups that can account for a big Mu boost, or in some cases, loss.

First issue where you lost a skill level after losing to 49/46 and you were a 41. You still will lose Mu (skill) when you lose just like you will still gain Mu (skill) when you win. However, it will just be in smaller increments. It look like when you took that big hit and went from 43 to 41, it put you just at 41. Since you won 4 matches against mostly lower skill you got little Mu. That loss, even against higher skill, was enough to drop you to 40. The very next game you won against even skilled opponents and went back to 41.

Second issue you asked me to look at where you went down 2 levels after losing to 49/50 when you were a 43. It looks like 4 games before you lost to lower skilled 38/40 and it hurt you although you stayed a 43. You then won 3 games against even or lower opponents which helped very little. You then had the loss that dropped you to 41. I believe this loss to lower opponents is what did the damage and the system's conservativeness didn't reflect that immediately until your next loss after just a few games.

I fully expect this answer to not be good enough. It contains my speculation, as much of this entire thread, but it is what I think. Now, I don't work for Bungie or MS so take it for what it's worth.

  • 01.14.2008 8:13 AM PDT

Posted by: Drugsy11
I have a quick question. Probably been answered before but anyway. Will your skill level increase if you are playing team games on rank playlists or is it only on lone wolves that your skill level will go up? I mean if you do pretty well on a team game should your skill level increase??
You have a skill level for each ranked list and they are all tracked separately.

  • 01.14.2008 8:23 AM PDT

Posted by: zupchurch5
That's just my two cents.
I'd appreciate if you didn't flame, I just want to get my point across.
This idea has been debated a number of times. It would increase the complexity of the system which some would think is a bad thing but some would like it. Ultimately, if it is a team game and your team loses, I don't think you should be rewarded. We then have a situation where people would be gaining skill levels while losing.

The system becomes even that more easier to manipulate. Is a person who goes 5 and 0 better than a person who goes 20 and 15 or are they the same? Looking at K/D ratio only makes them equal but I would think the 20/15 guy was a bigger asset. It becomes even harder to "score" with objective games. I use this a lot but people in H2 thought you would get more EXP for scoring the flag or planting the bomb. So then you had people assassinating teammates just to score the flag. I am usually the one to draw out enemies or damage the other team and for that I get a lot of assists. I mean, I already hear people screaming about "taking their kill". With the H3 BR team shooting is a must so I can just hear the screams when I finish off a guy for a teammate and he doesn't get the kill.

I play ranked TS with most random teammates. I know how frustrating it can be to get garbage teams. I also know that sometimes I am that garbage player, it just comes with the territory. Anyway, I was able to get to 45, playing the vast majority with randoms. Did I get some freaky crazy luck and that is why I was able to get there? I don't think so, if you are good enough, you can still get there even with randoms. My point is, I just don't think taking individual stats in to account would benefit the system a whole lot and may do more to damage it and the way people play the game.

  • 01.14.2008 8:37 AM PDT
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Ok Ive done some further investigations now and everything is pointing at that I cant level up in a party with friends in playlists with more than two players. Im slowely increasing in double team but not half as fast as I am with random people although that the guy im usually playing double team with from my FL is only 1 level away from mine.

In team slayer, in a party with friends, I was stuck on lvl 23 for 22 consecutive wins although that I was playing levels way higher than myself. Now I hate playing with random people because that kind of takes away all forms of strategy and teamwork, mostly because 90 % of the teams im ending up with has atleast 1 person whos not using a mic. Anyways, so I tried playing with random people just to see what it did for my level and in 8 games, 7 wins and 1 loss, I gained ten levels all of a sudden. Now this is a major flaw in the skill system if people arent able to progress when playing with friends. I went back to playing with my friends and in 4 straight wins against level 40´s, im only a 32 atm, I didnt gain a single level.

  • 01.14.2008 12:19 PM PDT
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I also, have had a similar problem to Batzter's in team slayer ranking.

My party, consisting of 4 (StudlyRocker38, Rabern, zPoolhustlerz, and Hellgate32), began playing Team Slayer. Rabern was a rank 17, zPoolhustlerz and Hellgate were in the low 21-23ish, and I personally was 25. We played I believe 10 games, mostly against parties that were less than or equal to our rank. We won all 10 games, but only ranked up maybe one time each. Rabern went to play Team Slayer solo, and went from 17 to 23 in only a few games. Thinking that Rabern's skill was too low to allow us to level up, we attempted playing again. We still found it too difficult to rank up.

Basically, we played 34 team slayers games with our party of 4. We played against some higher, some lower, some the same. We won 32 of 34 games. Unforunately for us, we ranked up twice during all of 32 wins, and ranked down once after our 2 losses. So from 30 wins, I ranked from 25-27, lost one which brought me back to 26.

I have througholy read many posts on this thread. However, I think there is something wrong, something that will need to be corrected about ranking up while being in a party. The fact that Rabern could get 6 or 7 skill-ups in less wins than we needed to skill-up once in a party of four throws up a red flag for me.

Please do not take this as flaming or being overly angry about the situation. I thought I would share our frustration about the situation, and add our concerns that the ranking system is currently flawed. And let me clarified that by flawed, I don't mean that I don't agree with the way the ranking system works, but rather I mean that the ranking system is not working as intended.

  • 01.14.2008 4:08 PM PDT
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lonewolves is SO frustrating. can win 5 in a row against similarly ranked guys, take one last place against guys 3+ levels above me -> go down :(

  • 01.14.2008 4:15 PM PDT
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Thanks alot man this helped out alot.

  • 01.14.2008 5:46 PM PDT
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Posted by: StudlyRocker38
.

Im glad that someone els has noticed this. It seems like im totally incompatible with certain players. Im beginning to think that the guys which I cant level up with are getting host for some reason and is using strict router settings which isnt allowing the game data to be uploaded. Its hella far fetched but I cant come up with any other reason since the system is working perfectly fine when im playing with random players.

  • 01.14.2008 6:32 PM PDT
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that makes alot of sense.....messed up though

  • 01.14.2008 8:41 PM PDT

Posted by: Batzter
Ok Ive done some further investigations now and everything is pointing at that I cant level up in a party with friends in playlists with more than two players. Im slowely increasing in double team but not half as fast as I am with random people although that the guy im usually playing double team with from my FL is only 1 level away from mine.

In team slayer, in a party with friends, I was stuck on lvl 23 for 22 consecutive wins although that I was playing levels way higher than myself. Now I hate playing with random people because that kind of takes away all forms of strategy and teamwork, mostly because 90 % of the teams im ending up with has atleast 1 person whos not using a mic. Anyways, so I tried playing with random people just to see what it did for my level and in 8 games, 7 wins and 1 loss, I gained ten levels all of a sudden. Now this is a major flaw in the skill system if people arent able to progress when playing with friends. I went back to playing with my friends and in 4 straight wins against level 40´s, im only a 32 atm, I didnt gain a single level.
I totally agree that playing with randoms seems to allow players to level up quicker. The more different people you play obviously allows the system to judge your individual performance faster/better. We know this because of a a team that only plays together and with no one else will get stuck at 15 or so. When you party up, the system cannot determine which one in your party made the difference between win and loss. It is handicapped in a sense that instead of putting you with and against 7 players each game to get data about you, it is only putting you against 4 players each game. It does seem silly to "penalize" players who team up but it does appear to be a limitation of the system. You'll go up when in a party, it will just take longer, that's what is going on and yes it is kind of bunk.

Keep in mind that players will not level up at the same rate unless they have played in all of the same games. Even if their win% and/or number of wins and games are equal. This system judges you by the skill and sigma of your opponents. Comparing players won 50 of 75 but only played 25 games together will mean they are different skill levels. Also the amount of games a player has already played will cause them to level up at different speed. If 2 people are 25 and one has played 50 games and one has played 500, the guy with 50 will level up and down quicker because the system is still trying to figure out what his level should be. The more you play, the more info the system has, and the more accurate it becomes.

As far as the host not updating the stats, I don't think this is the case. If the data is accurate on B-net, then it is accurate on Live. B-net pulls the data from the Live servers, it doesn't keep track separately. When H3 first dropped, there was a big delay getting game stats from Live to B-net. At that time Bungie stated that Live actually collects and stores the data on each of your games. B-net just gleans that info from them so your in-game skill level, rank and EXP are "more" accurate than the B-net stats. Even if the host box disconnects right at the end of a game, you sit there and wait for the game to be transfered to another box. When the transfer is complete and you get out of the 'New Host' screen, it has accurate post game stats so Live may be keeping track of everything on-the-fly so people can't leave right before the end and not have the game count.

  • 01.15.2008 6:25 AM PDT
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Posted by: Jay120171
I totally agree that playing with randoms seems to allow players to level up quicker. The more different people you play obviously allows the system to judge your individual performance faster/better. We know this because of a a team that only plays together and with no one else will get stuck at 15 or so. When you party up, the system cannot determine which one in your party made the difference between win and loss. It is handicapped in a sense that instead of putting you with and against 7 players each game to get data about you, it is only putting you against 4 players each game. It does seem silly to "penalize" players who team up but it does appear to be a limitation of the system. You'll go up when in a party, it will just take longer, that's what is going on and yes it is kind of bunk.

Yeah it takes away the whole point of practicing with a team if you wont be able to level up with them and play against higher levels. I find it to suck extra much since we are 4 guys from a small town in sweden that likes to play together. We all know eachother so by filling a party we dont have to bother with speaking english and arent annoying anyone by sometimes discussing personal things that arent related to the game. Sweden has a very small Halo community in comparison to the States and UK so even if im searching for own language im never teamed up with other swedes hich means that I have to use me 2nd or 3rd language , depending on how you see it. I can also be sure of that I wont win as much and that plenty of those random players wont be using mics at all so suddenly its turned into a single player version of multiplayer.

[Edited on 01.15.2008 12:51 PM PST]

  • 01.15.2008 12:50 PM PDT
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yeah good stuf

  • 01.15.2008 1:14 PM PDT
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has bungie addressed any of these issues, and how is this system different from the system used in Halo 2?

  • 01.15.2008 1:22 PM PDT
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no.

  • 01.15.2008 2:04 PM PDT
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
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RIP- ACE (Drew) 1984-2005

Posted by: Jay120171
Posted by: _Akira
Ok explain how we win 4 games in a row 2 against higher ranks and 2 against lower ranks, then we lose to ranks 6+ levels higher and we drop a rank.
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=232962 479&player=Dark%20AgentPD

Also before that, we win 3 games in a row, 2 aginst lower ranks and 1 against higher ranks, then lose 1 game to a 50 and a 49 and we drop 2!! levels. Explain this Mr wizard.
http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=232913 740&player=Dark%20AgentPD

I don't have all the answers and I (we) don't know "exactly" how Bungie's implementation of TrueSkill works. Without it being laid out and described in detail, we can only make assumptions about what is going on. We know how it is explained on the MS site. We know how certain issues have cropped up and Bungie has stated they are looking in to it. We also know Bungie said they would not state exactly how it works to help eliminate manipulation.

Anyway, I looked through your history to see what the deal was. First off, I figure who is "higher" or "lower" ranks by looking at the average of the two people. I am not trying to nit pick you but some of those you stated as higher, I didn't see it that way. It is important to know the average ranks of your opponents to figure out what is happening to your Mu and Sigma.

I have noticed a ton of people lately who have been losing 1 game and taking a big hit. We (some of us in the Optimatch Forum) discussed this possibility a few months back. We surmised that once the game matured a little the rank system would start to "self-adjust" making it harder to level up and drop people quicker as more people reached the higher levels. This is total speculation but we did consider that possibility as the skill distributions are supposed to be in the shape of a bell. I have seen recently that losing 1 game can drop you a level even against higher skilled opponents. Why exactly this is I don't know, I can only give you a best guess. I believe it is more and more people having a low sigma and the system confident in their skill. It now has enough confident opponents to place you in "key" match-ups that can account for a big Mu boost, or in some cases, loss.

First issue where you lost a skill level after losing to 49/46 and you were a 41. You still will lose Mu (skill) when you lose just like you will still gain Mu (skill) when you win. However, it will just be in smaller increments. It look like when you took that big hit and went from 43 to 41, it put you just at 41. Since you won 4 matches against mostly lower skill you got little Mu. That loss, even against higher skill, was enough to drop you to 40. The very next game you won against even skilled opponents and went back to 41.

Second issue you asked me to look at where you went down 2 levels after losing to 49/50 when you were a 43. It looks like 4 games before you lost to lower skilled 38/40 and it hurt you although you stayed a 43. You then won 3 games against even or lower opponents which helped very little. You then had the loss that dropped you to 41. I believe this loss to lower opponents is what did the damage and the system's conservativeness didn't reflect that immediately until your next loss after just a few games.

I fully expect this answer to not be good enough. It contains my speculation, as much of this entire thread, but it is what I think. Now, I don't work for Bungie or MS so take it for what it's worth.


Thanks for looking at everything, but regardless, the system needs some serious work. Im wondering about the chances Bungie will issue a patch for the game that could essentially fix all these bugs. And on the matter of leveling with a team slower... thats just counter-productive to the game, as one of XBL's biggest ads is to play with your friends online, then you penalize them for it, just irritating. Its not just them either, i was stuck at 40 for a while then played with other people and sure enough shot up to 45. It takes away from teamwork when your forced to play alone cause u wont skill up. I'm just frustrated with the whole system, and im mad they changed it from the H2 system, while not improving it. Change for changes sake doesnt make the result good or better than what was before.

P.s. Thanks Jay for trying to aleviate everyone's concerns with the ranking system, and sorry if i vented on you any, for a game that took so long to make Im just upset they couldn't put it out without all these problems. Your the only one willing to discuss it, while bungie is no where to be found.

[Edited on 01.15.2008 2:20 PM PST]

  • 01.15.2008 2:16 PM PDT
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I think all this complaining about the skill system is unwarranted. I am currently a level 41 in Lone Wolves and that is where I belong. I consistently finish 2-5 and I am happy knowing that I am better than 80% of the people who play Halo 3. When I play in a higher level match I finish lower and in a lower level match I finish higher. It just pains me to watch so many people complain about a revolutionary game that allows us to follow every stat we have ever had since 2004, hats off to an industry pioneer. I just wake up everyday and pray that my 360 does not flash the "red rings of death." Everything after that is time well spent. Thanks Bungie for the memories,

28,000 kills
23,000 deaths
5 girlfriends
2 xbox's
1 Halo

  • 01.15.2008 4:40 PM PDT