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  • Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.

Thought Provoking Discussion forum plz
Flood < All.

sounds like a good system on reading that.
Why do loads of people say it "doesn't work" in TS or TD but i very rarely hear complaints about the system in LW?

I also hear people saying how long it takes them to rank up, but at 35-43 LW it has taken me two or three first places to rank up one level, unless i have came last or fifth a couple of times.

[Edited on 03.26.2008 8:15 AM PDT]

  • 03.26.2008 8:11 AM PDT
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I WON 8 GAMES IN A ROW AS A 48 AND DIDN'T GO UP AND I LOST 1 AND WENT DOWN WHAT KINDA TRASH IS THAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

  • 03.26.2008 11:52 AM PDT
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The ranking system sucks man, if you win 10 games in a row you show level up, period.

  • 03.26.2008 12:18 PM PDT

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself."
-Nietzsche

Rank is not a trophy. Get over yourselves. No, you don't deserve to be a level 50.

  • 03.26.2008 12:19 PM PDT
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Uh, Ya I do, I have played like 2600 games, I freeking deserve a 50.

  • 03.26.2008 12:21 PM PDT
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Last night I almost threw my controller through my tv, because I won7 of 8 games and went up one rank. then we lost a close game and went back down. I didnt understand what the deal was. now Ive read your explaination and I understand what the deal is. the deal is that the ranking system is completely retarded and stupid. Its a system that is all work and no reward. bungie needs to change it as soon as possible. It should be about winning and losing, kill to death ratio only (with assists factored in). I would also say that It should have to do with the rank of people you play, but I was winning against people who were higher than me and it didnt mean a thing. I also know people who have been stuck on a rank 4 ever and have played with the same friends consistently and they go up constantly. People with a lower rank should not have an advantage in ranking up. If anything their mu and sigma should be automatically lower, until they earn the right to be a high rank. I dont care what any one says. the systems sucks. If am winning consistently I should go up consistently. Period. Fix the problem!!!

  • 03.26.2008 12:41 PM PDT

divine thought in an of itself is the thought of thought on thinking of thought ~ Galileo

you are absolutly right and they should base the skill on the player's skill instead of the teams skill i played a game got 23 kills had a k/d of +18 and went down because we lost the skill system sucks you need to fix it as soon as possible ASAP

  • 03.26.2008 12:48 PM PDT

Posted by: jwm1980
Last night I almost threw my controller through my tv, because I won7 of 8 games and went up one rank. then we lost a close game and went back down. I didnt understand what the deal was. now Ive read your explaination and I understand what the deal is. the deal is that the ranking system is completely retarded and stupid. Its a system that is all work and no reward. bungie needs to change it as soon as possible. It should be about winning and losing, kill to death ratio only (with assists factored in). I would also say that It should have to do with the rank of people you play, but I was winning against people who were higher than me and it didnt mean a thing. I also know people who have been stuck on a rank 4 ever and have played with the same friends consistently and they go up constantly. People with a lower rank should not have an advantage in ranking up. If anything their mu and sigma should be automatically lower, until they earn the right to be a high rank. I dont care what any one says. the systems sucks. If am winning consistently I should go up consistently. Period. Fix the problem!!!
I understand you're frustrated and all but you won 2, went up to 33. You then won 5 and went up to 34. You lost the next one and went back down to 33 (I assume from your post). It looks like where you are at is about 6 wins to go up a level - what's wrong with that? The system is about winning and losing along with the skill levels of your opponents. Lower skill levels don't have an advantage. It's the total number of games in that playlist that determines how fast or slow you level up.

  • 03.26.2008 12:56 PM PDT

Posted by: BIG coolin1216
you are absolutly right and they should base the skill on the player's skill instead of the teams skill i played a game got 23 kills had a k/d of +18 and went down because we lost the skill system sucks you need to fix it as soon as possible ASAP
lolz - going down because you lost doesn't make the skill system garbage. You may want to be rewarded for performing well but you are playing a team game, if your team loses, you should not gain any skill.

  • 03.26.2008 12:58 PM PDT
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Ok fair enough. I dont have a problem only ranking up every six wins. What i do have a problem with is going down so easily. especially when the team I lost to had a few 40's on their team. Even if they made it so that i went down after 3 loses i would be ok with that. but one loss to derank, and six to rank up is too unbalanced. and people who are lower rank do rank up faster,which is not fair. Its easy to beat up on some noobs, its hard to win against good players. there should be more reward for hard work and good wins. I won games for an hour straight and one loss (which I did the best I might add against ateam with better players) I went down. It needs to be adjusted to be more fair.

  • 03.26.2008 1:04 PM PDT

Posted by: jwm1980
Ok fair enough. I dont have a problem only ranking up every six wins. What i do have a problem with is going down so easily. especially when the team I lost to had a few 40's on their team. Even if they made it so that i went down after 3 loses i would be ok with that. but one loss to derank, and six to rank up is too unbalanced. and people who are lower rank do rank up faster,which is not fair. Its easy to beat up on some noobs, its hard to win against good players. there should be more reward for hard work and good wins. I won games for an hour straight and one loss (which I did the best I might add against ateam with better players) I went down. It needs to be adjusted to be more fair.
I feel your pain dude, I really do. I was teetering on the edge in TD between 43/44 for a long time. I would win a few, make it up to 44, lose the next one go down, win a few, go back up to 44, etc. The good thing is, you are on the edge and you know with 1 or 2 wins against equal or higher skilled people, you can go right back up. It's not like you are staring over and have to get another 6-8 wins to go, you are right on the edge.

  • 03.26.2008 1:09 PM PDT
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so are you saying that i wont have to win another six to go back to a 34?

  • 03.26.2008 1:14 PM PDT

Posted by: jwm1980
so are you saying that i wont have to win another six to go back to a 34?
I can't say 100% because the system is so dependent on the levels of your opponents. If you happen to get games with people below you, it may. In my case, it took just a few wins to get back up because I would get a game against people higher than me and we would win.

  • 03.26.2008 1:21 PM PDT

Halo: Reach will be the "Halo Killer" everyone else has tried to a accomplish.

EXCELLENT!

Very informative help me understand the system a lot more.

Thanks!

  • 03.26.2008 9:12 PM PDT
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Wow, very informative.

  • 03.26.2008 9:18 PM PDT
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this is probably the most informative and well thought out post ive seen. i completely understand the system and how it works and i thank you for this post it has certainly helped me out alot.


and by the way, if you didnt get recon armor for this then im sorry lol cuz i think its deserving of it

  • 03.26.2008 11:07 PM PDT

Ok, I feel pretty sure I know roughly how the system works (thanks mainly o this thread) however, I wondered if anyone could give me a bit more detail on one particular aspect of the Bungie TrueSkill system.

As I understand it, Bungie have adapted the MS TrueSkill system - I just wondered if Highest Skill is ever taken into consideration in their version? I had a game last night which should highlight why I started to think about this:

view

This was a Lone Wolves game, and I had the highest skill for the playlist (26 - Ha ha I'm working on it alright ;p). Now the other guys had skills of 23 or 25. Yet as soon as I saw who I was matched against I felt sure I was going to lose.

My highest skill is 28, after that the guy with the next highest skill had 30, and another had 35. The others had highest skills in the 40s and the winner had even reached 50. Quite a difference.

I guess it is likely that these guys achieved these highest scores in another playlist (either that or they had a pretty drastic drop in form). But even so, anyone who gets to level 40+ in any team playlist is going to be pretty handy in Lone Wolves.

As I predicted I was hammered and came last - but how badly would I have been penalized? I guess quite a lot as theoretically I had the highest skill and came last, but realistically how could I possibly compete?

So can anyone clear up my curiosity - is highest skill a factor in rank calculation?

  • 03.27.2008 4:19 AM PDT

Posted by: GaidenZero
So can anyone clear up my curiosity - is highest skill a factor in rank calculation?
No, it is not used for skill adjustments or MM criteria. You have a separate skill level (MU/Sigma) for each playlist and what you have in one list does not affect any other list.

  • 03.27.2008 5:06 AM PDT

Posted by: Jay120171
Posted by: GaidenZero
So can anyone clear up my curiosity - is highest skill a factor in rank calculation?
No, it is not used for skill adjustments or MM criteria. You have a separate skill level (MU/Sigma) for each playlist and what you have in one list does not affect any other list.


Cheers Jay, thats what I figured. That game must have screwed me over a bit then - guess I'll have to put it down to being pretty unlucky to be matched against such players.

  • 03.27.2008 5:39 AM PDT
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Experiment in leveling=
look at OSUSeaman, he leveled up the following people to 50s easily=
OSUM0t0
Tex247365
Chobofied
Z0SU Clan

ALL to 50
each time osuseaman only leveled 2 or 3 times to 42 as max level

experemental results = the more you play, the more you are screwed to never level up!

  • 03.27.2008 5:56 AM PDT

Have a Nice Day!
Phoenix Down
Peter Pan

I've played on multiple accounts just for the sheer joy of leveling up, and I got some odd results....

One account-
I played usually with level 48's and stuff (playing with a teamate..)..
won 60 straight. didnt get to 50. (got to 50 when record was 65-3.)

Second account-
Went in by myself. won 50 of 51 games and got to a 50.

This seems to present evidence against the intended you play higher levels you rank up faster....

  • 03.27.2008 6:11 AM PDT

Posted by: Z0SU Clan
Experiment in leveling=
look at OSUSeaman, he leveled up the following people to 50s easily=
OSUM0t0
Tex247365
Chobofied
Z0SU Clan

ALL to 50
each time osuseaman only leveled 2 or 3 times to 42 as max level

experemental results = the more you play, the more you are screwed to never level up!
It is known that the more games you play in a playlist, the more wins it takes to go up. It basically comes down to if a person took 500 games to get to level 40, it's not going to raise them after every couple of wins. If a person has taken 50 games to get to 40, their level is still fluid enough to go up after every couple of wins. The system is very sure the person with 500 games should be a 40 and not so sure the person with 50 wins is a 40. Some people like that and some don't but it is what enables the system to get a person up quickly.

  • 03.27.2008 7:07 AM PDT

Great thread. Now I want to now my Mu and Sigma :)

  • 03.27.2008 7:16 AM PDT

Posted by: ThumperTheGod
I've played on multiple accounts just for the sheer joy of leveling up, and I got some odd results....

One account-
I played usually with level 48's and stuff (playing with a teamate..)..
won 60 straight. didnt get to 50. (got to 50 when record was 65-3.)

Second account-
Went in by myself. won 50 of 51 games and got to a 50.

This seems to present evidence against the intended you play higher levels you rank up faster....
There are a couple other things you need to take in to consideration. If you were in a mixed party on your first account, it will take longer. Mixed parties previously received 1/100th of the amount of skill for a win compared to a normal party. Bungie recently reduced that difference but it still takes longer to level up in a mixed party.

Also playing with the same teammates for a lot of your games seems to slow you down as well. This fact has been highly debated but we do know if 4 people only play together and with no one else, they will not go above 16 no matter how many games they win in Team Slayer (23 for Team Doubles). Playing by yourself, with no party will give the system the most information about your individual skill so it does make sense that playing alone will get you up the fastest. Well, assuming you can carry your team and get the wins without your friends.

The system actually has the ability to get you to your skill level in 8 games. Bungie has slowed it way down by limiting skill updates in your first 100 games, among other things.

  • 03.27.2008 7:19 AM PDT
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All that math..... I understand now, I've been trying to get to brigader for so long. Now I know why I can't get there. Thnks, and Kudos

  • 03.27.2008 7:47 AM PDT