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  • Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
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Jay where did you find the 1/100th stat for mixed parties? I didn't notice that in the presentation or anything.

  • 03.27.2008 8:34 AM PDT

Posted by: Baaaaaaaaaaaaah
Jay where did you find the 1/100th stat for mixed parties? I didn't notice that in the presentation or anything.
What up Baa....h. It was in the 3/7/08 Weekly Update. They figured that penalty was a little harsh and relaxed it although they didn't say exactly how much. Just that it was "significantly eased".

Quote from the Update

Previously, the Skill assessment system (the one that is determining your rank) would devalue games that took place in Mixed Skill conditions to discourage the rapid boosting that was pretty prevalent in Halo 2. In a Mixed Skill scenario the value of the game quality (think of it like the amount of points you’d “earn” toward your next level) was previously 1/100th of what it would be in a situation where you were not in a Mixed Party. The net result of this is extremely slow advancement of the displayed Skill.

The fix significantly eases the restrictions on Mixed Parties, meaning that players will level quicker than they were previously.

  • 03.27.2008 8:42 AM PDT
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Wow Thanks a lot!
This really helps me grasp the concept of the Halo 3 ranking system.
Thanks

  • 03.27.2008 8:52 AM PDT
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Posted by: Jay120171
Posted by: Baaaaaaaaaaaaah
Jay where did you find the 1/100th stat for mixed parties? I didn't notice that in the presentation or anything.
What up Baa....h. It was in the 3/7/08 Weekly Update. They figured that penalty was a little harsh and relaxed it although they didn't say exactly how much. Just that it was "significantly eased".

Quote from the Update

Previously, the Skill assessment system (the one that is determining your rank) would devalue games that took place in Mixed Skill conditions to discourage the rapid boosting that was pretty prevalent in Halo 2. In a Mixed Skill scenario the value of the game quality (think of it like the amount of points you’d “earn” toward your next level) was previously 1/100th of what it would be in a situation where you were not in a Mixed Party. The net result of this is extremely slow advancement of the displayed Skill.

The fix significantly eases the restrictions on Mixed Parties, meaning that players will level quicker than they were previously.


Hmmmm. Sounds like they didn't fix it for Doubles though.

  • 03.27.2008 8:58 AM PDT
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did you even read what he posted MVP doesnt mean anything

  • 03.27.2008 9:15 AM PDT

This was really good to know, thanks for spending your time to post this informative and helpful post. This clearified a lot, espescially when it comes to K/D ratio and other in-game stats.

  • 03.27.2008 9:37 AM PDT

Posted by: Baaaaaaaaaaaaah
Posted by: Jay120171
Posted by: Baaaaaaaaaaaaah
Jay where did you find the 1/100th stat for mixed parties? I didn't notice that in the presentation or anything.
What up Baa....h. It was in the 3/7/08 Weekly Update. They figured that penalty was a little harsh and relaxed it although they didn't say exactly how much. Just that it was "significantly eased".

Quote from the Update

Previously, the Skill assessment system (the one that is determining your rank) would devalue games that took place in Mixed Skill conditions to discourage the rapid boosting that was pretty prevalent in Halo 2. In a Mixed Skill scenario the value of the game quality (think of it like the amount of points you’d “earn” toward your next level) was previously 1/100th of what it would be in a situation where you were not in a Mixed Party. The net result of this is extremely slow advancement of the displayed Skill.

The fix significantly eases the restrictions on Mixed Parties, meaning that players will level quicker than they were previously.


Hmmmm. Sounds like they didn't fix it for Doubles though.
Actually, they adjusted party restrictions for MM to RBTB and TS only. Allowing mixed skilled parties to match normal parties.

The mixed skill party skill adjustment (anti-boosting measure) was for all lists.

It was stated as two separate issues they fixed:# Fixes to matchmaking to allow more even leveling for players
# Disabled Mixed Skill restrictions for RBTB and Team Slayer**

I took it to mean for every list - at least I hope it was.

  • 03.27.2008 10:34 AM PDT

I'm just curious as to how someone like Frankie can say that what types of weapons you use and where you are on the maps DOES have an effect on skill. Then this 'Top Topic' goes on to say that the only things that matter are whether or not you win, the skill levels of opponenets, and mu/sigma values.

Basically they are contradicting each other. So which one is correct?

  • 03.27.2008 10:38 AM PDT

Posted by: eVasivE 50
I'm just curious as to how someone like Frankie can say that what types of weapons you use and where you are on the maps DOES have an effect on skill. Then this 'Top Topic' goes on to say that the only things that matter are whether or not you win, the skill levels of opponenets, and mu/sigma values.

Basically they are contradicting each other. So which one is correct?
You are referring to the headshots comment I think. He just meant you got some new ability and started winning consistently or more. It was taken literally when he didn't mean it that way. I think it was Achronos who later clarified he didn't mean it literally and was figuratively talking about getting better and as a result, winning more (or games the system thinks you should lose).

The MS pages on TrueSkill linked in the OP also state that individual stats are not used and only whether you win or lose along with the skill (MU/Sigma) of your opponents are used for skill changes.

  • 03.27.2008 11:04 AM PDT
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Everyone just needs to stop complaining about how they win games and don't go up levels, and how they have great K/Ds but they still go down levels. IT DOESN'T MATTER PEOPLE! K/D DIDNT MATTER IN HALO 2 AND IT STILL DOESNT MATTER IN HALO 3. Reading over this thread is infuriating because everyone who asks a question clearly has not read the original post very carefully.

People are idiots. That's all I can say.

  • 03.27.2008 9:32 PM PDT
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You said that my sigma starts very high in the beginning, right ? so why weren't we (me and my friends) able to level up faster even though we've not lost a game in the first 30 yet the highest lvl we were able to achieve was 8 ? isn't our sigma supposed to be getting higher with continuous wins, thus, leveling up faster ? we continued playing to 42 games wins with 2 loses yet our lvl didn't surpass lvl 9. Is this normal ? we tried playing in team doubles but we're still having the same problems even though our wins are over 95% of all games?

Is the cause the differences in sigma of both teams ? I mean because we're playing against players with very low sigma and too much losses ?

  • 03.28.2008 9:37 AM PDT
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Posted by: HaloPhilic
You said that my sigma starts very high in the beginning, right ? so why weren't we (me and my friends) able to level up faster even though we've not lost a game in the first 30 yet the highest lvl we were able to achieve was 8 ? isn't our sigma supposed to be getting higher with continuous wins, thus, leveling up faster ? we continued playing to 42 games wins with 2 loses yet our lvl didn't surpass lvl 9. Is this normal ? we tried playing in team doubles but we're still having the same problems even though our wins are over 95% of all games?

Is the cause the differences in sigma of both teams ? I mean because we're playing against players with very low sigma and too much losses ?


Your sigma is still high, yes. It is not likely it is increasing though.

Your problem is you need to stop playing with the same person. This is a known issue that causing leveling to slow or stop. Mix it up for a few games and you will see drastic changes.

  • 03.28.2008 10:51 AM PDT
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So it has nothing to do with the differences of Σ between us, the winning team, and the other one ?

Thanks.

  • 03.29.2008 4:00 AM PDT
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You messed up on one part, well at least I think.....

<<<You wrote>>>
Sigma is the numerical representation of the range in which your true skill could lie. Play really consistently, and you have a low Sigma. Play streakily, and you have a higher Sigma.


BUT shouldn't it be if you are consistent, you will have a high Sigma. Play streaky, and you will have a lower sigma.

Because what u wrote really doesn't make any sense.... IF I play consistent, I should be rewarded not the kids who some games get 5 kills because they didn't have sword. and the next game they get sword, they get 20 kills?

  • 03.29.2008 11:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: E Rok
You messed up on one part, well at least I think.....

<<<You wrote>>>
Sigma is the numerical representation of the range in which your true skill could lie. Play really consistently, and you have a low Sigma. Play streakily, and you have a higher Sigma.


BUT shouldn't it be if you are consistent, you will have a high Sigma. Play streaky, and you will have a lower sigma.

Because what u wrote really doesn't make any sense.... IF I play consistent, I should be rewarded not the kids who some games get 5 kills because they didn't have sword. and the next game they get sword, they get 20 kills?


I think his description meant with wins/losses. If you're consistently winning and losing at about a 50% pace, you're going to remain the same skill level. His description sounds more like it's aimed at streaks of winning (or losing, even).

The original post could probably be revamped to elaborate on things a little better, though.

  • 03.29.2008 11:46 AM PDT
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okay listen to this. me and my 2 friends were on fire, we were beating everyone that was in front of us. It was El Strongside, MariooSLAPShoes, and iTaY speCiAL K playing Team Slayer. I started off at level 16. MariooSLAPShoes started off as a 48. We won five games in a row then lost 1. Because we had a noob on our team. We then won 13 games in a row, many were steak tacs and Mario got MVP for most of the games. Well after winning the 13th game, i was now a 34 and my other friend went from a 44 to a 47. why isn't my friend going up i just wanna help him get his fifty.

HERE ARE THE LINKS>>....>>

http://www.bungie.net/stats/PlayerStatsHalo3.aspx?player=mari ooSLAPShoes

http://www.bungie.net/stats/PlayerStatsHalo3.aspx?player=el%2 0StrongSide

http://www.bungie.net/stats/PlayerStatsHalo3.aspx?player=iTaY %20speCiAL%20K

[Edited on 03.29.2008 11:48 AM PDT]

  • 03.29.2008 11:46 AM PDT
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oo ok i see now but still if i win consistent, i should go up not playing streaky like win 10 then losing 5 u know what i mean?

  • 03.29.2008 11:50 AM PDT
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Posted by: E Rok
oo ok i see now but still if i win consistent, i should go up not playing streaky like win 10 then losing 5 u know what i mean?


Yes, I still don't fully understand the ranking system cause I refuse to sit and really calculate every detail of any explanation to it.

What I don't understand is how I could get up to a 47 in doubles with one person, then out the blue one day play with another guy I'd never entered matchmaking with, and win 14 of 17 total games, and not rank up once. In total he rose from a 46 to a 47 and after that he remained the same level. I'll link the pages to that streak.

Page 1
Page 2

Page 1 begins the streak from 4 games down onward. Page 2 carries that streak up 12 games from the bottom of the page. That was about 2-3 hours of winning almost every game we played, I'll admit to placing 2nd in almost every game because my partner was significantly better than me, however, we still won several games in a row.

If anyone has any insights as to how we managed to not move from those ranks, I'd greatly appreciate it. I'd thought that those wins would've brought one of us to a 48. I've reached that 48 since then and then eventually made it to 49, but I'd like to know why I didn't rise in those 14 wins.

  • 03.29.2008 12:01 PM PDT
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Say my W/L ratio in Team Slayer is 50/100 but my W/L ratio for Team Doubles is 75/100 with a total W/L ratio of 125/200. Does the system differentiate between the two categories or does it only see the combined ratio?

The hope I have is that it sees every category separately thus, if you're having trouble in one category you can get to 50 in another.

  • 03.29.2008 5:11 PM PDT
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man your post rocks. its has let me understand the ranking system in a whole new way.
keep it up!

  • 03.29.2008 5:46 PM PDT
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Posted by: DA6ONET
Say my W/L ratio in Team Slayer is 50/100 but my W/L ratio for Team Doubles is 75/100 with a total W/L ratio of 125/200. Does the system differentiate between the two categories or does it only see the combined ratio?

The hope I have is that it sees every category separately thus, if you're having trouble in one category you can get to 50 in another.


I believe each category is seperate. The only thing that transcends all the playlists is your military rank. So if your having trouble moving up in one particular playlist, you can always try a different playlist and start over fresh.

  • 03.29.2008 7:10 PM PDT
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i still think the ranking is dumb bc i have a 3.37 k/d ratio and i've played like 120 slayer matches and lost maybe 7or 8 and thats high balling it and im only a 20

  • 03.30.2008 12:19 AM PDT

Posted by: xO McFlury Ox
i still think the ranking is dumb bc i have a 3.37 k/d ratio and i've played like 120 slayer matches and lost maybe 7or 8 and thats high balling it and im only a 20
You and the rest of your Mc Donald's crew need to play some games with other teammates. It look like you all are only playing with each other and no one else. The system cannot judge you individually if you play in the same party for all of your games. It sucks, but that's how it works.

  • 03.30.2008 8:08 AM PDT

Posted by: XjustKILLNtimeX
Posted by: E Rok
oo ok i see now but still if i win consistent, i should go up not playing streaky like win 10 then losing 5 u know what i mean?


Yes, I still don't fully understand the ranking system cause I refuse to sit and really calculate every detail of any explanation to it.

What I don't understand is how I could get up to a 47 in doubles with one person, then out the blue one day play with another guy I'd never entered matchmaking with, and win 14 of 17 total games, and not rank up once. In total he rose from a 46 to a 47 and after that he remained the same level. I'll link the pages to that streak.

Page 1
Page 2

Page 1 begins the streak from 4 games down onward. Page 2 carries that streak up 12 games from the bottom of the page. That was about 2-3 hours of winning almost every game we played, I'll admit to placing 2nd in almost every game because my partner was significantly better than me, however, we still won several games in a row.

If anyone has any insights as to how we managed to not move from those ranks, I'd greatly appreciate it. I'd thought that those wins would've brought one of us to a 48. I've reached that 48 since then and then eventually made it to 49, but I'd like to know why I didn't rise in those 14 wins.
Once you get in the 45+ range it can be very difficult to level up. All those game you won against lower skilled people don't help you. You must beat teams equal or higher skilled than you to gain from it. Also, if you've played a lot of TD games, it can take, on average, 10 wins to go up 1 level.

  • 03.30.2008 8:12 AM PDT

Posted by: E Rok
okay listen to this. me and my 2 friends were on fire, we were beating everyone that was in front of us. It was El Strongside, MariooSLAPShoes, and iTaY speCiAL K playing Team Slayer. I started off at level 16. MariooSLAPShoes started off as a 48. We won five games in a row then lost 1. Because we had a noob on our team. We then won 13 games in a row, many were steak tacs and Mario got MVP for most of the games. Well after winning the 13th game, i was now a 34 and my other friend went from a 44 to a 47. why isn't my friend going up i just wanna help him get his fifty.

HERE ARE THE LINKS>>....>>

http://www.bungie.net/stats/PlayerStatsHalo3.aspx?player=mari ooSLAPShoes

http://www.bungie.net/stats/PlayerStatsHalo3.aspx?player=el%2 0StrongSide

http://www.bungie.net/stats/PlayerStatsHalo3.aspx?player=iTaY %20speCiAL%20K
I don't really feel like typing it all out but look here:

TrueSkill FAQ

It's probably a case of mixed party "penalty" along with how many TS games the dude trying to get his 50 has. The more games played, the more wins it takes.

  • 03.30.2008 8:15 AM PDT