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This topic has moved here: Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
  • Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.

Weapon of Choice

Ahh thanks for the input, nice thread btw.

  • 04.07.2008 1:49 AM PDT

Best Song ever: You Cant Quit Me Baby by Queens of the Stone Age

Also Guns and Roses are the biggest load of pish-posh ever

Great topic...a few questions though.

Ive noticed that if im on a winning streak, I go up quite quickly(most of the time ive got the most kills, irellevant i know, but still). However Ive noticed that Asists have a bigger part to play than K/D ration in a game. For example, in the games below..

game 1
game 2
game 3
game 4
game 5

In each of the games, I was significantly the highest skilled player via rank in each game. So it should be harder for me to go up right?. Well in 5 games i went up 3 levels (from a 35 to a 38). And in 4/5 of those games i got the highest number of kills and/or asists on my team, and i didnt go negative in any of the games (irrelavant i know). So, does this mean my sigma is high because i went up so quickly, or is it low because i played consistently? (comparing myself to LoveNub, i feel that i shouldnt have gone up so quickly, but hey, i did)

  • 04.07.2008 6:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: CornetoGospel
Great topic...a few questions though.

Ive noticed that if im on a winning streak, I go up quite quickly(most of the time ive got the most kills, irellevant i know, but still). However Ive noticed that Asists have a bigger part to play than K/D ration in a game. For example, in the games below..

game 1
game 2
game 3
game 4
game 5

In each of the games, I was significantly the highest skilled player via rank in each game. So it should be harder for me to go up right?. Well in 5 games i went up 3 levels (from a 35 to a 38). And in 4/5 of those games i got the highest number of kills and/or asists on my team, and i didnt go negative in any of the games (irrelavant i know). So, does this mean my sigma is high because i went up so quickly, or is it low because i played consistently? (comparing myself to LoveNub, i feel that i shouldnt have gone up so quickly, but hey, i did)


You sigma is still reasonably high thats all

  • 04.07.2008 8:49 AM PDT

-Kevmaniac

Can you look at my halo games and tell me why Im not leveling in lone wolves? Im a level 45 and I played all night/morning to try to gain just on level but wasn't able to do so. I got more 1st and 2nds than any other places. Do i need to continuously get first to gain levels?

  • 04.07.2008 9:30 AM PDT
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A quit/disconnect would be treated as a loss in any FFA game and also if your team loses. A loss is a definate loss in sigma as well. However, in a team game if your team still wins, you get a win, so it would not drop your sigma by much.

So even though people have low experience due to quiting, their sigma should still be low. Got it! Do you think the game goes to a default sigma if a player is at 0 exp?

  • 04.07.2008 10:00 AM PDT
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so we won 17 games in a row in team slayer last night, with only like 2 games where i had - k/d. played all people of around the same rank, yet only moved up from skill 20 to 21. also we beat msot teams like 50 to 9. still barely any skill ups, what gives?

  • 04.07.2008 11:56 AM PDT

Gamertag- PuN iZ SaCrEd

the only question that i have is that how can u tell someone has won more frequently than you. other than that i understand a bit more

  • 04.07.2008 12:06 PM PDT
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Posted by: Tronix1
A quit/disconnect would be treated as a loss in any FFA game and also if your team loses. A loss is a definate loss in sigma as well. However, in a team game if your team still wins, you get a win, so it would not drop your sigma by much.

So even though people have low experience due to quiting, their sigma should still be low. Got it! Do you think the game goes to a default sigma if a player is at 0 exp?


Well not exactly. If people quit team games yet their team wins, they don't get a loss, and therefore don't lose as much sigma as they would ion a loss.

There is a minimum sigma in the game yes, Bungie doesn't allow it to go to 0.

  • 04.07.2008 12:57 PM PDT
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Posted by: abstruspun
the only question that i have is that how can u tell someone has won more frequently than you. other than that i understand a bit more


Not sure I follow? The way to tell someones winning % is best guestimated on their total EXP divided by number of social and ranked games. It will likely be slightly lower than this due to double EXP weekends.

This what you are asking? DOn't see how its relevant to the thread.

  • 04.07.2008 1:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: THECROCE
so we won 17 games in a row in team slayer last night, with only like 2 games where i had - k/d. played all people of around the same rank, yet only moved up from skill 20 to 21. also we beat msot teams like 50 to 9. still barely any skill ups, what gives?


Mixed party. This is covered in depth in this thread.

  • 04.07.2008 1:02 PM PDT
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Posted by: Kevmaniac567
Can you look at my halo games and tell me why Im not leveling in lone wolves? Im a level 45 and I played all night/morning to try to gain just on level but wasn't able to do so. I got more 1st and 2nds than any other places. Do i need to continuously get first to gain levels?


I looked through a few days worth of games for you. If is kind of odd, because you are doing quite well. I did notice some of the games you lost were to lower ranks, and definately some of your wins were against lower ranks too. Seems like poor matchmaking quality from Bungie to be honoest. I am positive you are on the brink of 46, but sometimes you get terrible quality like that.

  • 04.07.2008 1:07 PM PDT
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So basically your Mu rises as you go up in exp rank? Thats why its harder for brigs to rank up than recruits.

Heres a few things id like answered though...

1- you mentioned that you go up in rank winning agiasnt higher level faster and slower if you play lower levels. Well say i go into team slayer by myself and win. What does that do to my Mu? Like ive won 7 games in a row as a 47, ive been playing agasint other people 2 ranks higher or lower every game. So wheres my Mu? How many games would it honestly take to rank up?

2- I know how to abuse the system. but how does it work? if sosmebody in your party has negative exp how will everyone benifit then rank up faster?

That is all. I hope i get some help.

[Edited on 04.07.2008 1:44 PM PDT]

  • 04.07.2008 1:39 PM PDT
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Posted by: evan6992
So basically your Mu rises as you go up in exp rank? Thats why its harder for brigs to rank up than recruits.

Heres a few things id like answered though...

1- you mentioned that you go up in rank winning agiasnt higher level faster and slower if you play lower levels. Well say i go into team slayer by myself and win. What does that do to my Mu? Like ive won 7 games in a row as a 47, ive been playing agasint other people 2 ranks higher or lower every game. So wheres my Mu? How many games would it honestly take to rank up?

2- I know how to abuse the system. but how does it work? if sosmebody in your party has negative exp how will everyone benifit then rank up faster?

That is all. I hope i get some help.


First of all, no, MU does not necessarily rise as your EXP rises. Skill level (MU) and EXP (# of total wins) are not necessarily correlated at all. The correltation you refer to is somewhat coincidental. Or I guess, more accurately, it is not a 100% correlation. If you see a level 45 recruit, they probably havent lost much if at all, and thats why their sigma is high. However, winning % and EXP are not directly correlated in the sense you are thinking.

In regards to your questions:
1) You don't make any sense here. Going into TS by yoruself or with a party doesnt really matter as long as you are matched against the appropriate opponents. Maybe you can rephrase this so i understand.
2) You can't really abuse the system in the manner you are thinking...big difference between EXP and MU.

Sorry I guess I don't think I am understanding exactly what you are asking.

[Edited on 04.07.2008 3:10 PM PDT]

  • 04.07.2008 2:15 PM PDT
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Ok in simple terms i was asking how fast do you think ill rank up if i go in team slayer by myself and get matched agiasnt ppl higher and lower than me.

  • 04.07.2008 3:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: evan6992
Ok in simple terms i was asking how fast do you think ill rank up if i go in team slayer by myself and get matched agiasnt ppl higher and lower than me.


Well, your sigma seems quite low, so it won't be fast. Additionally, at rank 47 your are likely to get some pretty suspect matchmaking quality...not Bungie's fault really, just less people up at those skill levels.

You could be looking at 10+ net wins per rank. Looks like you are close to 48 after I eyeballed your games.

[Edited on 04.07.2008 4:15 PM PDT]

  • 04.07.2008 4:14 PM PDT
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Guess what, your explanation didn't make sense buddy. I have proved several things you stated about the system to be wrong. Bungie cannot possibly use any of the formulas you explained. First of all, it takes you much longer to rank up 25-50 than it does 1-25. Also, I played doubles with someone when I first got the game that was much better than me. We won something like 12 or 15 games in a row but he always had much better stats than me and got MVP every single time. When we started, he was a 21 and I was a 15. After we finished I was at 19 and he was 38. Please expain to me how something like that can happen if ranking doesn't take in game stats into account?

  • 04.08.2008 1:33 AM PDT
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Posted by: xXBLAKEMANXx
Guess what, your explanation didn't make sense buddy. I have proved several things you stated about the system to be wrong. Bungie cannot possibly use any of the formulas you explained. First of all, it takes you much longer to rank up 25-50 than it does 1-25. Also, I played doubles with someone when I first got the game that was much better than me. We won something like 12 or 15 games in a row but he always had much better stats than me and got MVP every single time. When we started, he was a 21 and I was a 15. After we finished I was at 19 and he was 38. Please expain to me how something like that can happen if ranking doesn't take in game stats into account?


This was of course under an alternate gamertag so you wont see it in my game history but if you want, I can get the other player to testify to that actually happening. Which is why I don't believe a word you said about Bungie using the Trueskill system.

  • 04.08.2008 1:41 AM PDT
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this guy is cool

  • 04.08.2008 2:04 AM PDT
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wow this is still around huh? crazy

  • 04.08.2008 2:08 AM PDT
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Posted by: xXBLAKEMANXx
Guess what, your explanation didn't make sense buddy. I have proved several things you stated about the system to be wrong. Bungie cannot possibly use any of the formulas you explained. First of all, it takes you much longer to rank up 25-50 than it does 1-25. Also, I played doubles with someone when I first got the game that was much better than me. We won something like 12 or 15 games in a row but he always had much better stats than me and got MVP every single time. When we started, he was a 21 and I was a 15. After we finished I was at 19 and he was 38. Please expain to me how something like that can happen if ranking doesn't take in game stats into account?


It takes lonegr to rank from 25-50 for two reasons:
1) Matchmaking quality deteriorates because the skill distribution is centered around the skill level of 20
2) You will ALWAYS have higher sigma above level 25 than you would in the 1-25 range

To answer your other question about doubles, I guarentee you he had lower sigma.

Bungie has stated numerous times that individual statistical performance is not taken into account. If you choose to believe otherwise that is your own decision.

  • 04.08.2008 7:26 AM PDT
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does high tide or low tide have anything to do with rank?

  • 04.08.2008 7:27 AM PDT
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so umm would you mind expalining the skill increases with a mixed team? there 52 pages, and couldnt seem to find what im looking for. Im currently a 31 and 21 in team slayer. my friend is a 30 overall and 12 in team slayer, and my other friend is just an 11 in team slayer. None of us are increasing in skill very much. they both have extremely low exp while i have about 500. both of them have only lost a couple of games. weve won 20 games straight, and theyve only really ranked up from 7-11, and ive gone from 20 to 21. what gives, how many games are we expected to win before we rank up? most of the people weve played are better skill levels than them, and around my skill level. care to rexplain how skill gainign works in a multi skilled team? / seems ridiculous to win 20 games in a row, and rank up 1 skill level. does severely beating the other team have anything to do with it?

  • 04.08.2008 8:39 AM PDT

I have a few questions aswell.

I'm still not a 50, but have not yet lost hope. Most of the time I play really well and go positive quite a lot.
I've heard people say that the amount of EXP affects the speed at which you rank up. I had some doubts here, because this would mean that a Brigadier G2, who got all his exp in Social Matches, would rank up just as slow as a Brigadier G2 who got all his exp in Ranked TS. So, does the amount of EXP affect your ranking progress.

Another thing I'd like to point out is that there was a game (win) that brought me from my 48 to my 49. After that I lost a match, got my 48 back. Then I won 3 in a row, and remained at 48. This means that I lost more level exp in 1 match, than I won in 3 matches. Some people say that if you lose a match you will have to win 5 more to get the 'win' back.

Regards

  • 04.08.2008 9:24 AM PDT
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Listen Einstein...... That was almost lamens terms, accept is still does not explain why the Mu is kissing the Ka off. Too bad that if you learned how to play the game, you lost out from the start on ranking. It's too proprietary, now that I'm better, I want my Mu & Ka reset!

"No Halo for old men"

"If youd'a have told me 20 years ago, that our young people would be walking around with green hair, and bones sticking out of their noses, I flat out wouldn't a believed ya!"

  • 04.08.2008 9:36 AM PDT