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  • Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
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Posted by: RMGeneralBull
So just a quick clarification......
I am a Brigadier Grade 2, only because i rarely played my own ranked games, the rest i play with my -blam!- friend.


I decided to finally go for 50 and play without my friend again......since I've played so many games with him and have an about even win/loss average with him, can i still go up to a 50 (the last 8 doubles games i played without him i wont 7 of them and the last 12 team slayer games without him i won 9)?
I.E - When i played with him, all the ranks i had achieved "leveled" out since he wasn't too good (and I'm not uber sweet enough to carry a team), but now that I'm playing without him, i win close to 80-90% of my games......with enough wins can i still reach 50?

(as in, even if you level out at a certain skill, with enough wins you can still make it to 50 and not get permanently stuck at a certain level?)


As long as you switch up teammates there is no such thing as getting stuck at a level. Win a few more and you will level up, don't worry.

  • 04.24.2008 7:17 AM PDT
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Posted by: Monkeyisbest
Quick Question:

Howcome most of the time when i tie games, i go DOWN in rank......


Coincidental. Purely depends on your opponant's sigma and MU

  • 04.24.2008 7:22 AM PDT
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Thanks for the guide!


[Edited on 04.24.2008 7:37 AM PDT]

  • 04.24.2008 7:27 AM PDT
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wait wait wait WAAAAAAAIT!!!!!... i understand most of it except the part of ranking up and down like when my friend and i had a winning streak of 20 in team doubles (all against players of our similar skill lvl) w/out ranking up and then we lose 1 game (once again a team of similar skill lvl) we both rank down. y would they put in a system that seems so easily flawed?

wouldnt it be better to hav a ranking system that takes in-game related stats? (such as number of kills K/D ratios and the rank of ur opponents) that would be a better system especially for those who totally dominate over the opposing team but lose because their team mates were away from the controller, or are composed of a person and a group of guests that hav no idea wat they r doing thus causing u to lose the match and negatively affect your Mu or Sigma or even rank down altogether!

i dont even think that the way teams are formed in TS or BTB are rly took into consideration at all! ull be stuck w/ a group of luitenants and staff captains against a group of randomly assorted brigadiers and colonels. That doesnt seem equally fair. If they were to mix up so that the teams were more balanced then the actual skilled players would hav a chance. and if the ranking system were dependant on ingame statistics for each individual player then the lower skilled players wouldnt be able to cheat their way to a higher skill lvl.

AND WAT R THEY DOING PUTTING HIGH SKILLED PLAYERS IN W/ LOW SKILLED PLAYERS ANYWAYS!?!?!?! im a colonel grade 2 highest skill 41 (couldnt get 45 cuz of having multiple problems related to the one at the beginning of my post) and im STILL getting put into matches w/ recruits! IT JUST SHOULDNT HAPPEN!!!!!! *sigh* i feel better now ima go make 45 ^_^

[Edited on 04.24.2008 2:49 PM PDT]

  • 04.24.2008 2:46 PM PDT
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I think I'm not the only one to say this, but halo 3's ranking system is horrible. People on new accounts can level up faster then the people who have played for a while and now want thier 50's. I could care less about getting mine, but I think the system could and should be fixed over this horrible true skill one

  • 04.24.2008 7:52 PM PDT

http://i558.photobucket.com/albums/ss23/DeathxWisher1/DrZoidb erg1000.jpg

Well, great job making the in-depth guide. Until now, I did not even know Mu or Sigma was even something involved with Halo.

Still, I hvae to agree with Dragon on the fact that the H3 ranking system isn't that good. I mean, there are games on double team or something where I'm a lv 40 and my friend is a 16. We win 4 matches in a row, I go up 2 ranks, he goes up 1. Best part is, he gets more kills than me, and a better k/d ratio. Basically, I get rewarded more for doing worse. Is this truly fair? I don't think so, but hell, I'll take more ranks any day :D

  • 04.24.2008 7:56 PM PDT

Posted by: Bender1000
Well, great job making the in-depth guide. Until now, I did not even know Mu or Sigma was even something involved with Halo.

Still, I hvae to agree with Dragon on the fact that the H3 ranking system isn't that good. I mean, there are games on double team or something where I'm a lv 40 and my friend is a 16. We win 4 matches in a row, I go up 2 ranks, he goes up 1. Best part is, he gets more kills than me, and a better k/d ratio. Basically, I get rewarded more for doing worse. Is this truly fair? I don't think so, but hell, I'll take more ranks any day :D
It's because you are playing in a mixed skill party.

Also, there are about 50 posts in this thread dealing with why a system that uses individual stats to determine your skill level is not necessarily a good thing. Pick any one of those to see why that type of system is not used.

  • 04.25.2008 6:15 AM PDT

well played sir.

  • 04.25.2008 7:36 AM PDT
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Great post, cleared up a lot of confeusion

  • 04.25.2008 8:56 AM PDT

I really don't understand why I have a signature.

that didnt help! it just confused me more!

[Edited on 04.25.2008 9:20 AM PDT]

  • 04.25.2008 9:20 AM PDT
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What I am, is trapped. And I've been trapped for so long that I don't know what it feels like...to be free.

I read the whole guide, but I'm not sure if this was answered yet:

Do you HAVE to win games in a row (consecutively) in order to proceed to your next rank? Or is it possible to win a few, lose one or two, and win one or two, etc. ?

If it stricly comes down to winning consecutively, then this system is flawed and is making Halo 3 feel like a JRPG. :(

  • 04.28.2008 10:29 AM PDT
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Posted by: Domino Theory 2
I read the whole guide, but I'm not sure if this was answered yet:

Do you HAVE to win games in a row (consecutively) in order to proceed to your next rank? Or is it possible to win a few, lose one or two, and win one or two, etc. ?

If it stricly comes down to winning consecutively, then this system is flawed and is making Halo 3 feel like a JRPG. :(


You don't have to win them in a row. MU is simply an additive thing.

  • 04.28.2008 4:27 PM PDT
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This helps alot thx

  • 04.29.2008 1:22 PM PDT

I've read a few pages of this, but I'm not about to read the other 50+ pages, so if this has already been discussed, please forgive me.

The explanation states that none of the in-game stats are taken into account when calculating mu, but I have a game of TS where my team won the game, and I had the highest score of everyone, and I dropped from a 33 to a 32. Regardless of the sigma and mu of each player, that does not make sense unless in-game stats are considered. Not ranking up is perfectly understandable, but deranking in such a situation does not make sense. So in an attempt to further understand the ranking system, I decided to look into the in-game stats. I was MVP, had the most medals, and had a positive K/D ratio (although not the highest). I had no suicides or betrayals. When considering who I killed versus who killed me, I killed the level 42 guy as much as he killed me and the level 7 guy twice as much as he killed me. The only issue I could find was that the other level 33 guy killed me 6 times when I only killed him 3 times.

If you look at my record, you can check the next TS game and see that I dropped to a 32 (I got pissed for dropping a rank and played a bit of social between these games). So unless someone can find another reason why I would derank based on the post-game stats, it appears that the ranking system does figure in who you killed versus who killed you.

  • 04.29.2008 4:15 PM PDT
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Blam!

  • 04.29.2008 8:18 PM PDT
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why can i go positive 10 at a level 44 in a 5 game winning streak my team all goes negative and we lose, i derank and i get pissed. i also have like 400 ranked matches in that hopper.

  • 04.29.2008 8:28 PM PDT

Posted by: Dr Grady
I've read a few pages of this, but I'm not about to read the other 50+ pages, so if this has already been discussed, please forgive me.

The explanation states that none of the in-game stats are taken into account when calculating mu, but I have a game of TS where my team won the game, and I had the highest score of everyone, and I dropped from a 33 to a 32. Regardless of the sigma and mu of each player, that does not make sense unless in-game stats are considered. Not ranking up is perfectly understandable, but deranking in such a situation does not make sense. So in an attempt to further understand the ranking system, I decided to look into the in-game stats. I was MVP, had the most medals, and had a positive K/D ratio (although not the highest). I had no suicides or betrayals. When considering who I killed versus who killed me, I killed the level 42 guy as much as he killed me and the level 7 guy twice as much as he killed me. The only issue I could find was that the other level 33 guy killed me 6 times when I only killed him 3 times.

If you look at my record, you can check the next TS game and see that I dropped to a 32 (I got pissed for dropping a rank and played a bit of social between these games). So unless someone can find another reason why I would derank based on the post-game stats, it appears that the ranking system does figure in who you killed versus who killed you.
You had a DNF which counted as a loss right before this game. DNF's sometimes don't count right away, especially if you started a new game before the game you DNF'd in is still going on. So the DNF made you drop a level and it didn't show up until after your next game.

  • 04.30.2008 6:13 AM PDT

Posted by: VIPER 0WN5
why can i go positive 10 at a level 44 in a 5 game winning streak my team all goes negative and we lose, i derank and i get pissed. i also have like 400 ranked matches in that hopper.
Your team lost, individual stats are not used, only the outcome of the game along with everyones skill level. Even though you have 400 games played, if the team that beat you was lower skill than you, it will take a nice chunk of MU away.

  • 04.30.2008 6:15 AM PDT

Posted by: Jay120171
You had a DNF which counted as a loss right before this game. DNF's sometimes don't count right away, especially if you started a new game before the game you DNF'd in is still going on. So the DNF made you drop a level and it didn't show up until after your next game.


Thank you for taking the time to check into that and shedding some light on it. I did not even think to look for a DNF because I have never intentionally left a ranked match, even when everyone else on my team leaves. I stand corrected, and I am much less irritated about the ranking system now than I have been for the last few days. Thanks again.

  • 04.30.2008 8:56 AM PDT
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Posted by: Jay120171
Posted by: Dr Grady
I've read a few pages of this, but I'm not about to read the other 50+ pages, so if this has already been discussed, please forgive me.

The explanation states that none of the in-game stats are taken into account when calculating mu, but I have a game of TS where my team won the game, and I had the highest score of everyone, and I dropped from a 33 to a 32. Regardless of the sigma and mu of each player, that does not make sense unless in-game stats are considered. Not ranking up is perfectly understandable, but deranking in such a situation does not make sense. So in an attempt to further understand the ranking system, I decided to look into the in-game stats. I was MVP, had the most medals, and had a positive K/D ratio (although not the highest). I had no suicides or betrayals. When considering who I killed versus who killed me, I killed the level 42 guy as much as he killed me and the level 7 guy twice as much as he killed me. The only issue I could find was that the other level 33 guy killed me 6 times when I only killed him 3 times.

If you look at my record, you can check the next TS game and see that I dropped to a 32 (I got pissed for dropping a rank and played a bit of social between these games). So unless someone can find another reason why I would derank based on the post-game stats, it appears that the ranking system does figure in who you killed versus who killed you.
You had a DNF which counted as a loss right before this game. DNF's sometimes don't count right away, especially if you started a new game before the game you DNF'd in is still going on. So the DNF made you drop a level and it didn't show up until after your next game.


Additionally his sigma change could have outweighed his MU change and skill dropped due to rounding.

  • 04.30.2008 10:23 AM PDT

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Posted by: AquaBlader
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Posted by: Bricypoo Nobody quotes me and puts me in their signatures It makes me sad ... :(
My third montage!

I wasn't sure where else to post this. The question I have is this; is it possible to rank up to quickly in the sense that it's deterimental to an individual's gameplay experience? I'm currently a captain grade 3 with a highest skill of 23 optained in team slayer. I got my rank through double xp weekends. Now I'm wishing I hadn't. I can accept that I'm not the greatest player, average at best. It just seems like I get matched against opponents that have a skill much higher than mine. When I say skill I dont' mean what the trueskill system assigns to me and the people I'm playing with/against. I talking "actual" skill. The skill that is displayed by actually playing the game.

I'll admit that I'm a very inconsistant player. I'll have one or two good matches for me then falter and have string of horrible matches. A good match for me is 12 to 15 kills with say 3 to 6 deaths.

I'm not really complaining. It just makes it difficult to enjoy the game when I feel like I'm being severely over matched. Maybe I just suck? I dont' know really.

~ Peeps

  • 05.02.2008 5:47 AM PDT
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Posted by: Agent Peeps
I wasn't sure where else to post this. The question I have is this; is it possible to rank up to quickly in the sense that it's deterimental to an individual's gameplay experience? I'm currently a captain grade 3 with a highest skill of 23 optained in team slayer. I got my rank through double xp weekends. Now I'm wishing I hadn't. I can accept that I'm not the greatest player, average at best. It just seems like I get matched against opponents that have a skill much higher than mine. When I say skill I dont' mean what the trueskill system assigns to me and the people I'm playing with/against. I talking "actual" skill. The skill that is displayed by actually playing the game.

I'll admit that I'm a very inconsistant player. I'll have one or two good matches for me then falter and have string of horrible matches. A good match for me is 12 to 15 kills with say 3 to 6 deaths.

I'm not really complaining. It just makes it difficult to enjoy the game when I feel like I'm being severely over matched. Maybe I just suck? I dont' know really.

~ Peeps


Are you compaining about social matchups or ranked ones? Ranked ones are by playlist only, so the double EXP weekend should not matter. If your defintiion of fun is destroying people in social, then yeah I understand. If competition is what you desire...well then I don't understand.

  • 05.02.2008 10:29 AM PDT
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What I am, is trapped. And I've been trapped for so long that I don't know what it feels like...to be free.

Thanks for the help, Baaaah. :P

Another question though: I just started playing my first games in ranked SWAT. I played 24 games (my first 24 games in this playlist) and I won 21 of them; meaning I only lost three of them.

Will this help me in the future for wanting to rank up in the SWAT playlist?

  • 05.02.2008 11:39 AM PDT
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What I am, is trapped. And I've been trapped for so long that I don't know what it feels like...to be free.

I also believe that the system is weighted so that the peak of the normal distribution is around level 20, not level 25. That means it will take more wins to level through 1-25 than it will 25-50. Which makes a bit of sense, if you don't want the highest levels too terribly crowded.

What does that mean, exactly? I'll level up faster when going from 25-50 than going from 1-25? Does that make sense?

  • 05.02.2008 11:55 AM PDT
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Posted by: Domino Theory 2
Thanks for the help, Baaaah. :P

Another question though: I just started playing my first games in ranked SWAT. I played 24 games (my first 24 games in this playlist) and I won 21 of them; meaning I only lost three of them.

Will this help me in the future for wanting to rank up in the SWAT playlist?


Well the higher you rank up the harder the next ranks wil become because you will play better people. So of course future ranking up will be harder i that playlist.

  • 05.02.2008 12:36 PM PDT