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  • Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
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Posted by: Domino Theory 2
I also believe that the system is weighted so that the peak of the normal distribution is around level 20, not level 25. That means it will take more wins to level through 1-25 than it will 25-50. Which makes a bit of sense, if you don't want the highest levels too terribly crowded.

What does that mean, exactly? I'll level up faster when going from 25-50 than going from 1-25? Does that make sense?


I don't think his statement is entirely accurate. There are more people generally below 20 than above, but that doesnt mean the ranking will be easier. Per win, yes it is. But competition will be harder. Just ask how many games it took them to get from 49-50...its usually ridiculously high.

  • 05.02.2008 12:38 PM PDT
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So does that mean winning 51-55% in LW or placing in the top half 51-55%?

Thanks.

  • 05.02.2008 1:24 PM PDT

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Posted by: AquaBlader
CTF is god. Praise his name. For the flag is his holy messiah.

Posted by: Bricypoo Nobody quotes me and puts me in their signatures It makes me sad ... :(
My third montage!

[qoute]Are you compaining about social matchups or ranked ones? Ranked ones are by playlist only, so the double EXP weekend should not matter. If your defintiion of fun is destroying people in social, then yeah I understand. If competition is what you desire...well then I don't understand.[/qoute]

Sorry I was pretty tired when I wrote that last night, actually this morning. I really didn't want it to sound like complaining. I hardly ever "complain" about what happens in Halo. I personaly feel like that I'm actualy over ranked. meaning My current rank and skill don't actually match my performance in game. I seem to go up against a lot of generals and colonals.

I know, I know "get better", "don't suck" blah blah blah. I know no matter how I try to write this it will sound like complaing and it really isn't my intention for it to sound that way. I honestly dont' care about my rank or skill, but it seems to be affecting my gameplay experience negatively. As a casual player I can't help but feel like that I'm being put in over matched scenarios. Perhaps I'm just on bad streak?

~ Peeps

  • 05.02.2008 1:25 PM PDT
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What I am, is trapped. And I've been trapped for so long that I don't know what it feels like...to be free.

Posted by: Baaaaaaaaaaaaah
Posted by: Domino Theory 2
Thanks for the help, Baaaah. :P

Another question though: I just started playing my first games in ranked SWAT. I played 24 games (my first 24 games in this playlist) and I won 21 of them; meaning I only lost three of them.

Will this help me in the future for wanting to rank up in the SWAT playlist?


Well the higher you rank up the harder the next ranks wil become because you will play better people. So of course future ranking up will be harder i that playlist.


Oh I know that. I'm just talking stricly in terms of the TrueSkill's way of working.

So will those 21/24 wins help me out in the future in that playlist for wanting to rank up?

  • 05.02.2008 2:10 PM PDT
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Posted by: Domino Theory 2
Posted by: Baaaaaaaaaaaaah
Posted by: Domino Theory 2
Thanks for the help, Baaaah. :P

Another question though: I just started playing my first games in ranked SWAT. I played 24 games (my first 24 games in this playlist) and I won 21 of them; meaning I only lost three of them.

Will this help me in the future for wanting to rank up in the SWAT playlist?


Well the higher you rank up the harder the next ranks wil become because you will play better people. So of course future ranking up will be harder i that playlist.


Oh I know that. I'm just talking stricly in terms of the TrueSkill's way of working.

So will those 21/24 wins help me out in the future in that playlist for wanting to rank up?


Not really. Each game is taken independantly of the other to calculate an amount of MU you gain or lsoe each game. I think what you are really asking is "Do Streaks matter?". The answer is: They only matter until you lose enough games. its not the streaks itself that matter, its keeping your sigma high for as long as possible. Streaks dont increase sigma...but losing sure drops it.

  • 05.02.2008 2:16 PM PDT
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What I am, is trapped. And I've been trapped for so long that I don't know what it feels like...to be free.

That's the thing: I'm NOT losing 'enough' in Team SWAT. According to Microsoft's Research site about TrueSkill, the TrueSkill system needs anywhere from 46-140 games to identify your TrueSkill in a playlist that incorporates 2 teams with 4 players on each team. As of right now, my win/loss ratio in the playlist is 97%.

Once I reach my 'TrueSkill' in Team SWAT (and assuming I keep the momentum that I have now in regards to win/losses), I should be leveling up much quicker in Team SWAT around the 40s to a 50 than I would in Team Slayer (which I've played ALOT in and have a much lower win/loss ratio percentage). As this point, it would take me 12-15 wins to go up one rank from a 45 in TS considering all the games I've played in it, and losing a lot of my first couple games, but winning a lot of my recent games NOW.

EDIT: What I'm trying to say is that in Team Slayer, I started out very inconsistent. Winning some, losing some, etc.. for the first few games the TrueSkill needed to asses where I should be. However, in Team SWAT, I'm going in very consistenly, winning A LOT of games, losing only 3 so far. This should give the TrueSkill system a good look in terms of assessing my TrueSkill in Team SWAT, thus allowing me to not go through 15 consecutive wins to go up one rank around the 40s, compared to Team Slayer. See what I mean?

It's like leaving a very good first impression when you first meet a woman, so she ends up thinking very highly of you from the get go compared to leaving an okay to bad first impression, but recently beginning to make her like you as everyday goes by, thus making her uncomfortable in whether or not to continue trusting you, wanting to be with you, etc.

[Edited on 05.02.2008 3:59 PM PDT]

  • 05.02.2008 3:45 PM PDT
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Does this count for team doubles aswell? Because me and my friend won our first 31 games, and have only lost 8 of our 54 games so far, but are only level 15. How is this possible?

  • 05.02.2008 8:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: Domino Theory 2
That's the thing: I'm NOT losing 'enough' in Team SWAT. According to Microsoft's Research site about TrueSkill, the TrueSkill system needs anywhere from 46-140 games to identify your TrueSkill in a playlist that incorporates 2 teams with 4 players on each team. As of right now, my win/loss ratio in the playlist is 97%.

Once I reach my 'TrueSkill' in Team SWAT (and assuming I keep the momentum that I have now in regards to win/losses), I should be leveling up much quicker in Team SWAT around the 40s to a 50 than I would in Team Slayer (which I've played ALOT in and have a much lower win/loss ratio percentage). As this point, it would take me 12-15 wins to go up one rank from a 45 in TS considering all the games I've played in it, and losing a lot of my first couple games, but winning a lot of my recent games NOW.

EDIT: What I'm trying to say is that in Team Slayer, I started out very inconsistent. Winning some, losing some, etc.. for the first few games the TrueSkill needed to asses where I should be. However, in Team SWAT, I'm going in very consistenly, winning A LOT of games, losing only 3 so far. This should give the TrueSkill system a good look in terms of assessing my TrueSkill in Team SWAT, thus allowing me to not go through 15 consecutive wins to go up one rank around the 40s, compared to Team Slayer. See what I mean?

It's like leaving a very good first impression when you first meet a woman, so she ends up thinking very highly of you from the get go compared to leaving an okay to bad first impression, but recently beginning to make her like you as everyday goes by, thus making her uncomfortable in whether or not to continue trusting you, wanting to be with you, etc.


Well you'ver pretty much answered your own question I think. Ranking will be easier in SWAT because you have high sigma...assuming you don't make the mistakes we have highlighted within this large thread:
1) Playing with the same people all the time
2) Never losing

Ranking from 40-50 may be easier in theory, but in reality it won't be because your matchmaking quality will deteriorate heavily (due to less people).

  • 05.03.2008 12:56 PM PDT
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Posted by: Hardfluke 2
Does this count for team doubles aswell? Because me and my friend won our first 31 games, and have only lost 8 of our 54 games so far, but are only level 15. How is this possible?


You need to switch up teammates. See previous pages for discussion. Playing with the same person will bug your visible rank.

  • 05.03.2008 12:57 PM PDT
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OMG NO algebra strikes again!!!
(very nice post, very enlightening)

  • 05.04.2008 3:52 AM PDT
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Hello.

I think people need to take some time to read this. Many people complain about the ranking system, yet, those people do not even understand how the ranking system works. If they take the time to read this, then they would realize what they need to do to improve the skill. I, myself, have been angry with the ranking system before. The problem was that I did not know how it worked. Then, I learned about the ranking system, and I used that knowlege to improve.

  • 05.04.2008 11:13 AM PDT
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thanks for the info very helpful it cleared a lot of things up for me

  • 05.04.2008 3:47 PM PDT

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I will say this. That is pretty accurate. But you forget what the actual ranking structure is based on. It is based on a british military ranking structure (forgot which branch). I don't know about the symbols being accurate withe the rank but the names are dead on.

  • 05.04.2008 11:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: XIX Goodeye XIX
I think people need to take some time to read this. Many people complain about the ranking system, yet, those people do not even understand how the ranking system works. If they take the time to read this, then they would realize what they need to do to improve the skill. I, myself, have been angry with the ranking system before. The problem was that I did not know how it worked. Then, I learned about the ranking system, and I used that knowlege to improve.


No one knows how the ranking system works not even the person who wrote this. It even says they do not work for MS or Bungie so how would anyone know 100% how it works? How are you supposed to completelly tell how something works when the people who made it do not say how it works. To be honest I think that the ranking system many occasions glitches out do to lag or other such things. But if what is said is true and it does not look at kill death ratio or MVP or medals or head shots or anything else then how is that really showing "True Skill"

All of those things as far as I am concerned more show a players true skill. The ranking system seems to go on some stuff that the player has no control over. You may be good enough to beat level 50 players but if the game only gives you level 20 players to play against then that is not exactly you're fault.

  • 05.04.2008 11:37 PM PDT
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bst pst i red 2 dte

  • 05.04.2008 11:51 PM PDT

Posted by: avmf8
No one knows how the ranking system works not even the person who wrote this. It even says they do not work for MS or Bungie so how would anyone know 100% how it works? How are you supposed to completelly tell how something works when the people who made it do not say how it works. To be honest I think that the ranking system many occasions glitches out do to lag or other such things. But if what is said is true and it does not look at kill death ratio or MVP or medals or head shots or anything else then how is that really showing "True Skill"

All of those things as far as I am concerned more show a players true skill. The ranking system seems to go on some stuff that the player has no control over. You may be good enough to beat level 50 players but if the game only gives you level 20 players to play against then that is not exactly you're fault.
The OP and many others who have participated in this thread used information from Microsoft and Bungie. Me and a few others who have stuck it out to answer questions have looked at 100's of players. You're correct, the OP and the rest of us don't work for Bungie but we have read how it works according to MS (the developers of TrueSkill) and Bungie. The OP linked info directly from MS on TrueSkill and other links to Bungie posts and info are sprinkled throughout this thread. Just because we don't have Gold text or the info has not been officially posted doesn't mean this info is wrong.

As far as your other point, calculating skill levels based on individual performance. There have been a number of discussions on this subject in this thread and others. Yes, for TS it seems easy (although it really isn't) but other lists become much more difficult to judge what to base skill on. It also has some very damaging affects to gameplay and teamwork, as discussed in other threads. TrueSkill does not use individual stats as observed by me looking at 100's of players and according to the developers of TrueSkill, MS.

  • 05.05.2008 10:34 AM PDT

i found IWHBYD without hex!

I think the truth to this post is very accurate. But I can't help but question one issue I have. That is, the issue of leveling up faster in new playlists.

For instence, it could take a player 5 games to get from 46 lone wolves to 47 but when a brand new ranked playlist comes out they may go from level one to four in one game. How does this "Sigma" factor tie into this?

Does Sigma lose its effectiveness in higher ranks?

  • 05.05.2008 8:58 PM PDT
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You know... I think the name of the system is ironic. It doesn't seem to take skill into the factor in the end.

  • 05.05.2008 9:05 PM PDT
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Posted by: Astrodynamic
Does Sigma lose its effectiveness in higher ranks?
My impression is that since you're a higher rank, you've likely become reasonably consistent, and therefore decreased your Sigma. This would stabilize your rank, which, in theory, will give you the best, most competitive games.

And I must say that in my experience, that's been the case. My games recently have been very competitive, and even though I don't come out on top all the time, pretty thoroughly enjoyable.

  • 05.05.2008 9:06 PM PDT

Posted by: eradication emu
You know... I think the name of the system is ironic. It doesn't seem to take skill into the factor in the end.
The system is based on the premise that winning over equal or higher skilled opponents = skill. I believe most think that is an accurate way to determine skill. It's a little more complicated but basically you win and you gain skill, you lose and you lose skill.

  • 05.06.2008 5:19 AM PDT
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brain...frying... info overload info overload *head explodes* anyways nice post and very smart i was stuck at skill 43 in LW for AGES but now i am a brig grade 2 woo hoo =)

[Edited on 05.06.2008 8:05 AM PDT]

  • 05.06.2008 8:05 AM PDT

I win 4 matches and I dont go up, I lose 2 and I drop. Also in those 2 matches I get highest kill. Then I get paired up with people who cant even play the game and I go from a 25 to a 24. At the start of this, I was a 29. This is really unfair. I just did a match where I lost because of some guy with 4 kills while the rest of my team had a high amount of kills.

  • 05.06.2008 2:40 PM PDT
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I have a quick question...

If i quit out of games in another play list will it effect my ranking up speed in a different one?

  • 05.06.2008 3:56 PM PDT
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Posted by: evan6992
I have a quick question...

If i quit out of games in another play list will it effect my ranking up speed in a different one?


no

  • 05.06.2008 4:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: Baaaaaaaaaaaaah
Posted by: evan6992
I have a quick question...

If i quit out of games in another play list will it effect my ranking up speed in a different one?


no


you sure?

  • 05.06.2008 4:03 PM PDT