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  • Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
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I remember in halo 2 when it was an achievement to get to the upper 30's/lower 40's. I never even dreamed of a 50. This was mostly because of modders and standbyers. Halo 3 has way to many level 50's. It's not that difficult to get a lvl 50 if you make a new account. Bungie took away the challenge of getting to lvl 50 when they made halo 3. Being a general should be reserved for really skilled players. Also, I wish I could see how far into a rank I am like I could in Halo 2. And if I really do get punished for playing with the same people, I would be angry. Anyways, the ranking system is flawed in halo 3. It's too easy to rank up (with new accounts). And too difficult to rank up with accounts that have multiple thousands of games played. Should be the same for everyone. Just my two cents.

  • 06.12.2008 9:59 PM PDT
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ty for that it really helped me get my head round the skill system but how can you be bothered to type all that lol?

  • 06.12.2008 11:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: TheBigCheese532
I remember in halo 2 when it was an achievement to get to the upper 30's/lower 40's. I never even dreamed of a 50. This was mostly because of modders and standbyers. Halo 3 has way to many level 50's. It's not that difficult to get a lvl 50 if you make a new account. Bungie took away the challenge of getting to lvl 50 when they made halo 3. Being a general should be reserved for really skilled players. Also, I wish I could see how far into a rank I am like I could in Halo 2. And if I really do get punished for playing with the same people, I would be angry. Anyways, the ranking system is flawed in halo 3. It's too easy to rank up (with new accounts). And too difficult to rank up with accounts that have multiple thousands of games played. Should be the same for everyone. Just my two cents.


I disagree there are too many 50's...there aren't. Remember there is a normal skill distribution centered most likely close to a skill level of 20 (even though it should be 25). Generals likely represent less than 0.27% of the Halo population (3 Standard Deviations). I suspect even at a level of 42-43 you would find less than 4.5% of people above that (2 Standard Deviations)

This might get slightly skewed by people that pay to have their accounts leveled and such, but I highly doubt its a statistically significant amount. Also remember at least 8.1 million copies of Halo 3 have been sold...so even 0.27% may seem like a lot of Generals...even though it isnt.

If you are a higher level player it only seems like there are more generals because thats what matchmaking pits you up against.

  • 06.13.2008 4:15 PM PDT

I'm not positive, but I believe that playing with the same players can cause a longer time in ranking up in the ranked playlists. I'm sure someone has posted this, but I truly didn't want to hunt one little topic down for hours on end. So, I will give a short example.



After taking a break from RBTB, my friend leaves my party and I go join Team Slayer alone. I start playing at about a 15 or 16 skill with three random players to join myself.

After winning three or four games in a row, I level up to a 19 skill for Team Slayer. My friend returns and we party back up in Team Slayer. After another three straight wins, I don't level up as I did with the three random players from before.



In the end, try some random friend requests with players you did well with and then repeat when your level slows down. If your level doesn't matter that much to you, just keep on playing with the people you know and have fun doing what you normally do.

This isn't guaranteed to work, but a hypothesis I pondered on.

  • 06.15.2008 3:22 PM PDT

Well the system is BS, i won 20 matches in a row and leveled form 47 to 48(1 LVL), my friend from 1 to 44. BS? I think so.

  • 06.15.2008 5:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: Spartan_008
I'm not positive, but I believe that playing with the same players can cause a longer time in ranking up in the ranked playlists. I'm sure someone has posted this, but I truly didn't want to hunt one little topic down for hours on end. So, I will give a short example.



After taking a break from RBTB, my friend leaves my party and I go join Team Slayer alone. I start playing at about a 15 or 16 skill with three random players to join myself.

After winning three or four games in a row, I level up to a 19 skill for Team Slayer. My friend returns and we party back up in Team Slayer. After another three straight wins, I don't level up as I did with the three random players from before.



In the end, try some random friend requests with players you did well with and then repeat when your level slows down. If your level doesn't matter that much to you, just keep on playing with the people you know and have fun doing what you normally do.

This isn't guaranteed to work, but a hypothesis I pondered on.



Yes this is discussed throughout the thread. Playing with the same people definately slows the ranking process.

  • 06.15.2008 10:26 PM PDT
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I recently created a new account for halo 3 with the purpose of see how high and how fast i could get my skill to go up in TS. Of course, it was slow and frustrating, and my friends dismissed it as "oh, the system is broken." I decided to do a little more research into the system and found this post. I read the first few pages and the last few pages ( i dont want to read all 62 pages, which means that if this topic has already been discussed, im sorry) of this forum, and it clearly explains my problem. I can't skill up quickly because i win every game. For the first time player and for the long term account, i think the trueskill system is perfect, but it really makes no sense when you look at an experience like my new account. Here is what i've been dealing with....

My friend and i both start a new account, our skills are 1. I should note that of the two of us, i am the more skilled player.
We play 21 games together, win every single one, 14 of them steaktacular. our skills both move to 6...
we lose our 22nd game, my skill goes to 5, his stays 6... we call it a night.
next day, i join up with him to find that he has played another whole pile of games without me, and lost most of them. His skill has gone down to 5 same as me
we go on another winning streak of 25 to 35 games
now heres the part that kills me.... my skill went up to 9, his went up to 36..... ????

Now im not going to sit here and say the system is broken, because i truely do not beleive it is. On Laztaru, my first and long term account, my skill 37 or something, and refuses to move but i think it accuatly describes my playing ability. I get placed in fun and challenging games, I rarely blow the other team out, and rarely get blown out. I would like to be able to hit that 40 for the extra star, but im not losing sleep over it, and i certainly have never complained about it.

It does seem strange though that inconsistency make your skillups faster. I think if I'm sitting on a record with only one or two losses, i should be moving up faster then an account with many losses. Perhaps the skill system for halo should be modified so it does look at the ingame stats. When it sees a player like me, leading the team with 25 - 30 kills and dieing max twice per game at these low levels of 5 - 10, it should immediatly bump me up 5 or 10 and put me closer to skill 15 or 20 to stop that from happening, then if i start losing games it can ease me back down. As much as i love picking on newbs from time to time, thats not what i created my new account for.
Also, i think a perfection should automatically gain you at least 1 skill point. Nothing if more annoying then hearing that "perfection" at the end of a good game only to see that your skill stays below 10 and everyone else jumps 2 or 3 levels

Again, im sorry if this has already been discussed. Maybe someone could suggest a way for my to skill up faster, and hopefully that doesn't mean i have to go lose some games on purpose.

  • 06.16.2008 9:04 AM PDT
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Posted by: Laztaru
I recently created a new account for halo 3 with the purpose of see how high and how fast i could get my skill to go up in TS.

We play 21 games together, win every single one,

we go on another winning streak of 25 to 35 games

As much as i love picking on newbs from time to time, thats not what i created my new account for.
.


And yet that is exactally what you did with the new account for, by your own numbers 46 - 56 games.... almost in a row.

To me that means that you were matched up against 92 - 112 players that if you had stayed at your own skill level you probably never would have played against.

Now imagine hundreds if not thousands of people doing this same exact thing for about the same number of games and do the math. But of course like most second accounters you probably don't care.

Ah well.

  • 06.16.2008 9:29 AM PDT
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Posted by: macwookie

And yet that is exactally what you did with the new account for, by your own numbers 46 - 56 games.... almost in a row.

To me that means that you were matched up against 92 - 112 players that if you had stayed at your own skill level you probably never would have played against.

Now imagine hundreds if not thousands of people doing this same exact thing for about the same number of games and do the math. But of course like most second accounters you probably don't care.

Ah well.


You do make a good point about these 'second accounters', it floods the system and probably makes it even harder for a player like me with a second account to get it up to where my first account is. I do hate seeing accounts with 0 losses, i hope they will give me a good challenge but i just walk all over them and destroy their accounts. it's as if these people have enough money to buy a new memebership every time they lose.... but i cannot afford this.
Also, i have many friends who refuse to play halo with me because when they started once and they kept being matched agaist 'second accounters' and had no chance of winning or even having a fun game.
I do sympathize, I feel bad for all the low level people that ive beat in games recently, but at the same time, i paid for my second account and want to get it to my level of play as quickly as i can. Before i read the first article in this thread, i thought the quickest way to gain skill was to get hundreds and hundreds of heatshot kills while dieing close to 0 times, so that is exactly what i did and it doesn't work. I made my post for some help to get out of the low levels and to stop being forced to ruin the game for the less experienced, and here you are accusing me of the opposite.

thanks buddy,

Anyway, if someone has something constructive to say, id still love to hear it.


*** added ***

note that this is more me rambling then anything, not very nessessary to my post....

I was reflecting on your post macwookie, and i thought i would make sense for me to justify why i made my second account. What i said before, "I recently created a new account for halo 3 with the purpose of see how high and how fast i could get my skill to go up in TS" was a gross oversimplification and was written without thinking when i made my first post. And i guess your right, it makes me seem like some jerk with a billion accounts. Sorry i was a little dissmissive of you when i first made this reply.

Laztaru used to be a shared account with my roommates, before any of us were any good or even knew how to play. I am a bit of a stat-junkie and love to see where my kills are coming from. On my new account, it shows more accuratly how i play. 55% BR kills, 12% sniper, 8% lazer, 5% grenages and 18% other assorted weapons. As you can see, i like to keep my beat downs as low as i can, (the remaining 2%) and im getting better at keeping that down. Usually, i'd rather take the death then beat my way out of it (all of my beats thus far have come when i was defending my perfections). If you look at the stats for laztaru, my old account, you can see i have ~800 beats and ~650 AR kills (on ranked alone) that i wish did not exist. I figured it would take me a whole lot less time to start a new account and get it to my level then it would take to kill enuf people to make those 800 beat downs insignificant.



[Edited on 06.16.2008 12:00 PM PDT]

  • 06.16.2008 10:32 AM PDT
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I wouldn't worry about second accounters skewing the distrubution much. They are very likely statistically insignificant. In fact, I would argue they are almost needed, because the distribution is already skewed to a mean closer to 20, rather than the 25 that it would be under ideal situations.

  • 06.16.2008 1:21 PM PDT
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Thanks man, now i completely understand where microsoft is getting at

  • 06.16.2008 2:50 PM PDT

I like video games

Great thread, very informative. I don't think i'm a huge fan of the way the system is set up but at least now ill understand it, thanks

  • 06.17.2008 12:42 AM PDT

Posted by: Laztaru
<snip> Again, im sorry if this has already been discussed. Maybe someone could suggest a way for my to skill up faster, and hopefully that doesn't mean i have to go lose some games on purpose.
You situation was actually explained in the post right above yours :) Anyway, playing with only the same partner in TD will make you level very slowly if you 2 have only played together. He leveled up quicker because he played a bunch of games with randoms (other teammates). I've found that even if you play 5 or 10 games with one other person (maybe his original account) it will allow the system to gain the info it needs to level you normally. Then you 2 can team back up. It sucks but the system cannot gauge your individual skill when you 2 play all of you games together and with no one else.

  • 06.17.2008 5:12 AM PDT
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Posted by: Laztaru


You do make a good point about these 'second accounters', it floods the system and probably makes it even harder for a player like me with a second account to get it up to where my first account is.
note that this is more me rambling then anything, not very nessessary to my post....

I was reflecting on your post macwookie, and i thought i would make sense for me to justify why i made my second account. What i said before, "I recently created a new account for halo 3 with the purpose of see how high and how fast i could get my skill to go up in TS" was a gross oversimplification and was written without thinking when i made my first post. And i guess your right, it makes me seem like some jerk with a billion accounts. Sorry i was a little dissmissive of you when i first made this reply.



Thanks.... Its nice to have an actuall conversation with someone on the H3 forum instead of just beating each other up.

You know it didn't occur to me until I saw the second post you made about second accounts having problems ranking up. I've noticed that a lot in the forums lately as well. People complaining that they can't get the second account up to the level that the first account is at.

Try to follow this. H3 launches and everyone is a 1. The formula by all rights will weed the good from the bad and rank you accordingly. So someone who is a 1 plays against someone else who is a 1 and looses. The person who won has a much higher skill than the person who lost and moves to a 2.

Now take two second accounts. Both have an actual skill of 50 but because they have new accounts they are now 1's. They play against each other and one looses. The one who won is now a 2 and the one who lost is still a 1. But because the skill they have is so out of proportion of what a normal 1 would be the system take this as their base value. Now the system expects them to improve their game (but they already rock) and they get rank locked at a lower level than the original account.

I don't know its just an idea.

  • 06.17.2008 5:36 AM PDT

Posted by: macwookie
Now take two second accounts. Both have an actual skill of 50 but because they have new accounts they are now 1's. They play against each other and one looses. The one who won is now a 2 and the one who lost is still a 1. But because the skill they have is so out of proportion of what a normal 1 would be the system take this as their base value. Now the system expects them to improve their game (but they already rock) and they get rank locked at a lower level than the original account.

I don't know its just an idea.
A new account, whether it is by a brand new Halo player or a good player starting over, is treated exactly the same way. Winning a TD game 25-0 is not different than winning a TD game 25-24. The system doesn't recognize a players skill by in-game performance, it only uses the outcome of the game, along with the uncertainty of the outcome compared against the probability of the outcome.

The reason it is "harder" to level up now is players are now playing a lot more players who have not yet reached their skill level. It doesn't necessarily make it "harder" to level up, it just takes more games. If you have a new account that is a 20 and you lose against another new account who is a 20, it doesn't hurt as much because all of your sigma's are still relatively high. Now, if you are a new account and lost against a 20 who has a low sigma (old account) then it will hurt you a lot worse and be a major setback.

Your skill adjustments are factored by the uncertainty of the players. Losing to a player with a high uncertainty doesn't hurt as bad as losing to a player with a low uncertainty. With the flood of new accounts who have not yet reached their skill level, you end up playing a lot of games against these type of players so not much is gained from the outcome.

Another thing to keep in mind is the maturity of the skill of the community. A level 20 player now is probably better than a level 20 player was at launch. In other words, the competition is tougher. Everyone's skill level is based on the skill of the community. As "everyone" gets better over time, it will take more "skill" to attain each level.

  • 06.17.2008 6:20 AM PDT
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Posted by: macwookie

Thanks.... Its nice to have an actuall conversation with someone on the H3 forum instead of just beating each other up.

You know it didn't occur to me until I saw the second post you made about second accounts having problems ranking up. I've noticed that a lot in the forums lately as well. People complaining that they can't get the second account up to the level that the first account is at.

Try to follow this. H3 launches and everyone is a 1. The formula by all rights will weed the good from the bad and rank you accordingly. So someone who is a 1 plays against someone else who is a 1 and looses. The person who won has a much higher skill than the person who lost and moves to a 2.

Now take two second accounts. Both have an actual skill of 50 but because they have new accounts they are now 1's. They play against each other and one looses. The one who won is now a 2 and the one who lost is still a 1. But because the skill they have is so out of proportion of what a normal 1 would be the system take this as their base value. Now the system expects them to improve their game (but they already rock) and they get rank locked at a lower level than the original account.

I don't know its just an idea.


Hey Mac

agreed, it is nice to be able to have a bit of a conversation on these forums.

As an update for the progress of my new account.... I played last night with randoms and purposly lost the first 2 or 3 games. My team wasn't happy about that, by the way. They thought i was going to be the best player they'd ever seen because of the 52 exp in 53 ranked games and 0 social games. After that, i went back with my buddies, and it only took us about half an hour to get me out of the single digits. Again, isn't that a little counter intuitive? i have to lose games to gain skill?

Getting to what you were saying about the two players who are actually skill 50, starting again at 1. It seems kind of silly that a player who has the ability to reach skill 50 can start all over again at 1. Although im sure they love to start that new account and pick on people or ruin other people's records, shouldn't there be some kind of system of checks and balances? The trueskill system is quite a good idea for when a game like halo 3 first begins. But when you have a situation like what we've been discussing, (players with actual skill 35+ starting new accounts) it looks to me like its starting to break. Good players should be put to a good skill, whether you see it at forcing them thru the ranks or letting them thru the ranks. These people (and im talking about people like me AND 'second accounter' jerks) should not be allowed to ruin the game for people who actually should be at skill 10. I feel so bad for these kids that i play who are sitting on hundreds of exp and trying desperatly to make luitenant. And they deserve it.... they've been playing enuf ranked matches that they should have skill 10 and cant get it because of groups of 'second accounters'.

It is my opinion that in a game where the skill goes to 50, 1 to 20 should be reserved for the players who aren't very good, 20 to 40 for players like me, who have been playing a while and althought aren't the best at the game, can trample over players at skill 10, and 40+ should be elite players. Thats what i thought the skill was all about when i first started playing.

I think really think the ranking system should be modified to look at actual game stats, because the player constantly getting +15 K/D spread every game is obviously more skilled then the player with an even KD spread, and the 'skill' rating really should reflect that. The number of wins a player can get has nothing to do with how good they are, especially in a community where a dude who has never touched an xbox controller can play with brigs and generals, winning every game even tho he hasn't figured out how to fire the effing gun yet!

** Laz takes a deep breath **

When i guy like me, who used to beleive whole heartedly in the ranking system (even when everyone around me screams about it being broken), has an experience like mine, something should probably be fixed. One thing is for sure.... if I was starting this game now, instead of a year ago when getting to skill 10 took me all of a few afternoons, no way in hell would i still be playing. 'Second accounters' are NOT insignificant. Even if they help to incease the mean, which i dont think matters AT ALL, they ruin the game for the casual player who only has their one account

But now we're getting into an issue which nothing to do with this thread. Plus, i have a feeling that anyone who comes to these forums is good enuf at the game that they dont care about those who suck.


[Edited on 06.17.2008 12:38 PM PDT]

  • 06.17.2008 10:57 AM PDT
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Posted by: Laztaru
Posted by: macwookie

Thanks.... Its nice to have an actuall conversation with someone on the H3 forum instead of just beating each other up.

You know it didn't occur to me until I saw the second post you made about second accounts having problems ranking up. I've noticed that a lot in the forums lately as well. People complaining that they can't get the second account up to the level that the first account is at.

Try to follow this. H3 launches and everyone is a 1. The formula by all rights will weed the good from the bad and rank you accordingly. So someone who is a 1 plays against someone else who is a 1 and looses. The person who won has a much higher skill than the person who lost and moves to a 2.

Now take two second accounts. Both have an actual skill of 50 but because they have new accounts they are now 1's. They play against each other and one looses. The one who won is now a 2 and the one who lost is still a 1. But because the skill they have is so out of proportion of what a normal 1 would be the system take this as their base value. Now the system expects them to improve their game (but they already rock) and they get rank locked at a lower level than the original account.

I don't know its just an idea.


Hey Mac

agreed, it is nice to be able to have a bit of a conversation on these forums.

As an update for the progress of my new account.... I played last night with randoms and purposly lost the first 2 or 3 games. My team wasn't happy about that, by the way. They thought i was going to be the best player they'd ever seen because of the 52 exp in 53 ranked games and 0 social games. After that, i went back with my buddies, and it only took us about half an hour to get me out of the single digits. Again, isn't that a little counter intuitive? i have to lose games to gain skill?

Getting to what you were saying about the two players who are actually skill 50, starting again at 1. It seems kind of silly that a player who has the ability to reach skill 50 can start all over again at 1. Although im sure they love to start that new account and pick on people or ruin other people's records, shouldn't there be some kind of system of checks and balances? The trueskill system is quite a good idea for when a game like halo 3 first begins. But when you have a situation like what we've been discussing, (players with actual skill 35+ starting new accounts) it looks to me like its starting to break. Good players should be put to a good skill, whether you see it at forcing them thru the ranks or letting them thru the ranks. These people (and im talking about people like me AND 'second accounter' jerks) should not be allowed to ruin the game for people who actually should be at skill 10. I feel so bad for these kids that i play who are sitting on hundreds of exp and trying desperatly to make luitenant. And they deserve it.... they've been playing enuf ranked matches that they should have skill 10 and cant get it because of groups of 'second accounters'.

It is my opinion that in a game where the skill goes to 50, 1 to 20 should be reserved for the players who aren't very good, 20 to 40 for players like me, who have been playing a while and althought aren't the best at the game, can trample over players at skill 10, and 40+ should be elite players. Thats what i thought the skill was all about when i first started playing.

I think really think the ranking system should be modified to look at actual game stats, because the player constantly getting +15 K/D spread every game is obviously more skilled then the player with an even KD spread, and the 'skill' rating really should reflect that. The number of wins a player can get has nothing to do with how good they are, especially in a community where a dude who has never touched an xbox controller can play with brigs and generals, winning every game even tho he hasn't figured out how to fire the effing gun yet!

** Laz takes a deep breath **

When i guy like me, who used to beleive whole heartedly in the ranking system (even when everyone around me screams about it being broken), has an experience like mine, something should probably be fixed. One thing is for sure.... if I was starting this game now, instead of a year ago when getting to skill 10 took me all of a few afternoons, no way in hell would i still be playing. 'Second accounters' are NOT insignificant. Even if they help to incease the mean, which i dont think matters AT ALL, they ruin the game for the casual player who only has their one account

But now we're getting into an issue which nothing to do with this thread. Plus, i have a feeling that anyone who comes to these forums is good enuf at the game that they dont care about those who suck.


You do make some good points, but I thought we should reitterate this thread is not to discuss whether the skill system is fair or just, but simply to decribe how it works for people that don't know. Neither Jay or I, probably the two biggest contributors to this thread, think the system is perfect or even close to perfect. It just is what it is. Its unlikely Bungie will change a plain vanilla system that was handed to them by Microsoft...we just all have to learn to live with it or get around it.

Just some food for thought for you. Not looking to argue with you (because this is nt the right forum for it), just simple devil's advocate:

Stats: As far as taking individual stats into account in team games, you are looking at it too binary. Can you look at someone who goes 5-0 the same as someone who goes 30-20? What about the guy thast goes -3 but has 15 assists? What about objective players? Making a big change to incorporate individual stats could totally change the flow of the game they want to see.

Second Accounts: What about the poor souls that have static ranks due to low sigma but have improved drastically? As a paying customer is it not their right to start another account to see what skill they can really get? Sure Generals doing restarts are ethically quesitonable, but what about the Captain Grade 3 that should be a Commander because they imporved a lot over the last 9 months?

  • 06.17.2008 2:18 PM PDT
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Posted by: Baaaaaaaaaaaaah
<snip>
As far as taking individual stats into account in team games, you are looking at it too binary. Can you look at someone who goes 5-0 the same as someone who goes 30-20? What about the guy thast goes -3 but has 15 assists? What about objective players? Making a big change to incorporate individual stats could totally change the flow of the game they want to see.


You make a damn good point about the stats issue. Those guys who go negative but assist almost every kill are needed on the team just as much as the guy who steals all the kills from them ( like me :P ). I guess its a two-edge sword. There are some special cases that I still think the game should take into account (ie, the time i was playing with skill 25+ people, I got a perfection with 35 kills, and everyone on the team jumped 2 or 3 skill while i stayed at skill 7.... yes SEVEN, grrr) But your right, a perfect system is impossible in a game as dynamic as Halo. Besides, any change they put in now would screw up everything and probably make me more annoyed then i already am. Thanks for pointing those things out, and sorry i strayed so far off topic, i was stuck at work with nothing to do for an hour, so i startied just writing my thoughts

I just had another good session, this time with a new set of random people. Ive gotten myself up into the mid teens, so it is starting to pick up. Maybe i just needed to play some more games before my skill started rising. i haven't hit players of my true skill level yet, but i notice the competition to get to skill 20 is much higher then it was when i did it the last time. Im struggling to keep my overall K/D ratio above 2.0, and i didn't think that was going to be a problem till i hit skill 30.

[Edited on 06.17.2008 4:07 PM PDT]

  • 06.17.2008 3:49 PM PDT
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That explains A LOT.
thanks.

  • 06.17.2008 10:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: Laztaru
Posted by: Baaaaaaaaaaaaah
<snip>
As far as taking individual stats into account in team games, you are looking at it too binary. Can you look at someone who goes 5-0 the same as someone who goes 30-20? What about the guy thast goes -3 but has 15 assists? What about objective players? Making a big change to incorporate individual stats could totally change the flow of the game they want to see.


You make a damn good point about the stats issue. Those guys who go negative but assist almost every kill are needed on the team just as much as the guy who steals all the kills from them ( like me :P ). I guess its a two-edge sword. There are some special cases that I still think the game should take into account (ie, the time i was playing with skill 25+ people, I got a perfection with 35 kills, and everyone on the team jumped 2 or 3 skill while i stayed at skill 7.... yes SEVEN, grrr) But your right, a perfect system is impossible in a game as dynamic as Halo. Besides, any change they put in now would screw up everything and probably make me more annoyed then i already am. Thanks for pointing those things out, and sorry i strayed so far off topic, i was stuck at work with nothing to do for an hour, so i startied just writing my thoughts

I just had another good session, this time with a new set of random people. Ive gotten myself up into the mid teens, so it is starting to pick up. Maybe i just needed to play some more games before my skill started rising. i haven't hit players of my true skill level yet, but i notice the competition to get to skill 20 is much higher then it was when i did it the last time. Im struggling to keep my overall K/D ratio above 2.0, and i didn't think that was going to be a problem till i hit skill 30.


Just keep playing with randoms until you hit about the 30-37 range...iot will be a lot quicker levelling, even with the extra losses. Then try and find a team for about 5-10 games at a time, then switch it up again. You want to have the other 7 guys have as low of sigma's as possible, and as variable as possible.

  • 06.18.2008 9:50 AM PDT
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i am stuck as a recruit and bungie is to lazy to do anything i have had the game forever but now i'm ready to stand up and do something about who is with me!

  • 06.18.2008 10:04 AM PDT

Why is it that almost every game I play in any playlist I run into a General for that playlist or one that has achieved General status in another list? And it usually isn't just one General either. The other night on SWAT (I am a 38) I played a 5 Star General (highest rank you can achieve) and a two other 2 Star Generals. I was the highest ranked person on my team. My highest skill is 42 in Team Slayer. It just doesn't seem right that I am playing these people who obviously have tons more experience than me. I thought Mu/Sigma was designed to find the most optimal match for me, not groups of people that dispatch me with relative ease. It has gotten to the point where 1 out of 3-5 matches I find people that I find play on the same level as me, the rest of the time I'm playing against High Ranked Brigaders and Generals. It is so frustrating that I'm about to give up playing Halo altogether. All I am looking for is an explanation as to why the system seems to cheat me every single game.

[Edited on 06.18.2008 12:40 PM PDT]

  • 06.18.2008 12:39 PM PDT
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like most others I did not read 62 pages. But I saw that your ranking slows down if you play with the same people over and over. Honestly, Bungie is a completely dumbass to make playing with friends acually affect your ranking! I mean I am a 48 in TD and TS, and Im not going to play by myself and risk getting sucky teammates! Truthfully, and probably about 75% of halo players will agree, the true ranking skill is good, but has way too many flaws that just outweigh the advantages the truskill gives.

  • 06.18.2008 3:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: maximus_asinus
Why is it that almost every game I play in any playlist I run into a General for that playlist or one that has achieved General status in another list? And it usually isn't just one General either. The other night on SWAT (I am a 38) I played a 5 Star General (highest rank you can achieve) and a two other 2 Star Generals. I was the highest ranked person on my team. My highest skill is 42 in Team Slayer. It just doesn't seem right that I am playing these people who obviously have tons more experience than me. I thought Mu/Sigma was designed to find the most optimal match for me, not groups of people that dispatch me with relative ease. It has gotten to the point where 1 out of 3-5 matches I find people that I find play on the same level as me, the rest of the time I'm playing against High Ranked Brigaders and Generals. It is so frustrating that I'm about to give up playing Halo altogether. All I am looking for is an explanation as to why the system seems to cheat me every single game.


So you are suggesting Generals should just automatically be ranked 50 in every playlist without having to rank up? Hardly seems reasonable. True Skill, as far as Bungie uses it, is per playlist only. Its not designed to give you the most optimal match across all playlists based on your performance on one only.

  • 06.18.2008 4:46 PM PDT

Posted by: Baaaaaaaaaaaaah
So you are suggesting Generals should just automatically be ranked 50 in every playlist without having to rank up? Hardly seems reasonable. True Skill, as far as Bungie uses it, is per playlist only. Its not designed to give you the most optimal match across all playlists based on your performance on one only.
The system should factor in every playlist AND the players progress in the single playlist when it is determining an acceptable match, it would give a more accurate depiction of where the player is at (of course playlists with little to no playtime wouldn't be taken into account). If you've reached 50 in one playlist you SHOULD be treated different than a player who can barely reach 30. Match them with other players their skill. I am sure there are plenty of level 45-50s playing in each playlist. Just look at it from this perspective; if Player A has achieved 50 in Playlist A and Playlist B and is going for a 50 in Playlist C should he be matched against Player B who highest skill is 30 and has yet to reach a 50 in any playlist at all? The answer is no, because Player A has far more experience than Player B. Now if you're Player B with a rank of 30 and you've been matched against Player A variants constantly in Playlist C you're probably not going to move anywhere in the playlist unless you show a vast improvement (sort of how the system intended it to be I guess, but it is less than ideal now with the number of boosters and second accounters running around). You've just become a stepping stone for each player that moves through this playlist. You might not be as good as the 50s you're being matched with game after game, but you COULD be better than the 35s that you aren't playing. The system should establish pools; groupings of players with relatively close overall Trueskill (lets say, within 5 points seperating the beginning of Pool A and the beginning of Pool B). Like swimmers in a real pool it would have your amateurs on one end, and the strong swimmers on the other. Players would be matched with people inside their pool to determine who is stronger, and when the time comes, when the player should be elevated into the next pool. So Player A is back, he has gotten his 50s in two playlists, he should be playing in Pool Z and not be matching against players in Pool M who are in the same playlist, the same as Pool M can't play Pool A and so on and so forth. The only hiccup in my idea would be the lack of players in Pool Z in a certain playlist would result in a harder time finding a match, but I think it is more acceptable to punish the few over the larger population.

  • 06.18.2008 8:48 PM PDT