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This topic has moved here: Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
  • Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.

luv it

  • 06.26.2008 7:13 AM PDT
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explaines alot

  • 06.26.2008 7:57 AM PDT
Subject: Check a bl1ndd k1dd's file share
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If you are reading this follow these directions:
1.Find a bl1ndd k1dd's file share
2.Look at his videos for sticky grenade montages or just crazy montages
3.find our forum in halo 3 forums
4.Take the vote on what you think these videos are like
5.Admire these pics from your Hearts desire
. From,
ThreebaII1313,a bl1ndd k1dd,and
Seans Mom69

  • 06.26.2008 9:54 AM PDT

Posted by: frontlinefighter
If you are reading this follow these directions:
1.Find a bl1ndd k1dd's file share
2.Look at his videos for sticky grenade montages or just crazy montages
3.find our forum in halo 3 forums
4.Take the vote on what you think these videos are like
5.Admire these pics from your Hearts desire
. From,
ThreebaII1313,a bl1ndd k1dd,and
Seans Mom69
I vote you're a dumbass for posting this here.

If and when you do find a place to properly post it, take the 3 minutes it would normally take, and link the items in the file share and link to your post in the H3 forum - it's not hard.

  • 06.26.2008 12:44 PM PDT
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
  • gamertag: Oml3t
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What I am, is trapped. And I've been trapped for so long that I don't know what it feels like...to be free.

Posted by: Jay120171
Posted by: Domino Theory 2
Wouldn't giving a heavier weighting on streaks make it worse? You can't expect everyone to get 50+ wins in a row once they hit a certain rank. TrueSkill simply needs to recognize a change in player skill within a handful of games, not 150+ games.
Currently it takes about 10 wins to go up one level on average for a player who has matured his account (low sigma). The only way for the system to currently detect a skill change is by the players sigma going up (after a large amount of unpredictable outcomes coupled with the small amount of sigma the system already adds back in prior to each of your games). I believe, because of info posted on the MS website and viewing players stats, it takes between 50-100 games for the system to detect a significant skill change.

It is my theory that having the system use another variable to adjust sigma up at a quicker rate then it currently happens would allow it to detect skill changes quicker and give it more resolution (not take as many games) than it currently has. What that variable should be is THE point of contention. I believe streaks could be used but others have pointed out that streaks can have no significant relevance in statistics. I still believe they can be relevant given the fact the skill system is "trying" to prevent you from winning by matching you up against players of increasing skill as you win.


Hmm, with my experience leveling up in Team Slayer, that is certainly not the case. I've won 5x that amount of 10 wins you speak of, and I just barely ranked up to a 47 from 46.

Although the 10 wins average seems to be the case for my Team SWAT rank, but not my Team Slayer rank.

  • 06.26.2008 1:06 PM PDT

Thank you for explaining this. Now i understand why people get second accounts. Nice work.

  • 06.26.2008 1:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: Domino Theory 2
Posted by: Jay120171
Posted by: Domino Theory 2
Wouldn't giving a heavier weighting on streaks make it worse? You can't expect everyone to get 50+ wins in a row once they hit a certain rank. TrueSkill simply needs to recognize a change in player skill within a handful of games, not 150+ games.
Currently it takes about 10 wins to go up one level on average for a player who has matured his account (low sigma). The only way for the system to currently detect a skill change is by the players sigma going up (after a large amount of unpredictable outcomes coupled with the small amount of sigma the system already adds back in prior to each of your games). I believe, because of info posted on the MS website and viewing players stats, it takes between 50-100 games for the system to detect a significant skill change.

It is my theory that having the system use another variable to adjust sigma up at a quicker rate then it currently happens would allow it to detect skill changes quicker and give it more resolution (not take as many games) than it currently has. What that variable should be is THE point of contention. I believe streaks could be used but others have pointed out that streaks can have no significant relevance in statistics. I still believe they can be relevant given the fact the skill system is "trying" to prevent you from winning by matching you up against players of increasing skill as you win.


Hmm, with my experience leveling up in Team Slayer, that is certainly not the case. I've won 5x that amount of 10 wins you speak of, and I just barely ranked up to a 47 from 46.

Although the 10 wins average seems to be the case for my Team SWAT rank, but not my Team Slayer rank.


He means 10 games for the average rank. At the highest ranks (45+), matchmaking quality deteriorates due to less population, hence why it is likely to take longer. Basically means have your wins will be useless because the system doesn't give you a high enough quality opponant to gain MU off of.

  • 06.26.2008 9:59 PM PDT

i am a major grade 2 on my other account i have a 31 in lone wolves but a 10 in team slayer i must have won at least 10 games and got mvp in 3 of them but i still did not rank up. Why is this happening? my current gt is Shawnz39

  • 06.26.2008 10:06 PM PDT

some people say its rank lock is it ?

  • 06.26.2008 10:07 PM PDT
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Props.

  • 06.26.2008 10:07 PM PDT
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What I am, is trapped. And I've been trapped for so long that I don't know what it feels like...to be free.

To Baaaaaaaaah:

What I thought was odd was while I was looking at how many wins it took me to go from a 46 to a 47 in Team SWAT, I noticed I had won 9 games and lost 6 to go to a 47 in Team SWAT. I thought that was odd considering a) I lost 6 games during this process and b) my early games of being a 46 consisted of bouncing between 45 and 46 (hence the 6 losses).

Any explanation for this? High sigma?

  • 06.26.2008 10:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: Domino Theory 2
To Baaaaaaaaah:

What I thought was odd was while I was looking at how many wins it took me to go from a 46 to a 47 in Team SWAT, I noticed I had won 9 games and lost 6 to go to a 47 in Team SWAT. I thought that was odd considering a) I lost 6 games during this process and b) my early games of being a 46 consisted of bouncing between 45 and 46 (hence the 6 losses).

Any explanation for this? High sigma?


I havent looked at how many games you have played in the Swat playlist...could definately be sigma. I suspect your sigma is higher in Swat than TS just based on the age of each playlist.

However, if they are similair for you, then you have to chalk it up to matchmaking quality. Not much you can do about it...just the luck of the draw based on who is on and when.

  • 06.27.2008 9:22 AM PDT
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What I am, is trapped. And I've been trapped for so long that I don't know what it feels like...to be free.

Nope, nowhere near similar. Having 9 wins with 6 losses to go from a 46 to a 47 in Team SWAT is nothing compared to having 45-60 wins with little losses to go from a 46 to a 47 in Team Slayer.

Yeah, it's that bad. :(

[Edited on 06.27.2008 1:28 PM PDT]

  • 06.27.2008 1:28 PM PDT

Thanks for your help. This helped me a lot. Very well written. GOOD JOB :D

  • 06.27.2008 1:49 PM PDT
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Posted by: Domino Theory 2
Nope, nowhere near similar. Having 9 wins with 6 losses to go from a 46 to a 47 in Team SWAT is nothing compared to having 45-60 wins with little losses to go from a 46 to a 47 in Team Slayer.

Yeah, it's that bad. :(


Definately a sigma difference then, unless you happen to be playing with the same guys in TS.

  • 06.27.2008 3:57 PM PDT
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Thank you so much for posting this!
It really clarifys why i can't get my 50. I might have to start playing other ranked play lists other then TS because i've won alot and lost a lot on it.

  • 06.27.2008 4:18 PM PDT
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you deserve recon for helping countless people

  • 06.27.2008 6:20 PM PDT
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What I am, is trapped. And I've been trapped for so long that I don't know what it feels like...to be free.

Posted by: Baaaaaaaaaaaaah
Posted by: Domino Theory 2
Nope, nowhere near similar. Having 9 wins with 6 losses to go from a 46 to a 47 in Team SWAT is nothing compared to having 45-60 wins with little losses to go from a 46 to a 47 in Team Slayer.

Yeah, it's that bad. :(


Definately a sigma difference then, unless you happen to be playing with the same guys in TS.


I think so. With Team Slayer, I'm going in with relatively the same people (it changes between or two guys at times). But in Team SWAT, it's my friend and I who go in together and get paired up with randoms (same goes with our opponents).

  • 06.28.2008 3:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: Domino Theory 2
Posted by: Baaaaaaaaaaaaah
Posted by: Domino Theory 2
Nope, nowhere near similar. Having 9 wins with 6 losses to go from a 46 to a 47 in Team SWAT is nothing compared to having 45-60 wins with little losses to go from a 46 to a 47 in Team Slayer.

Yeah, it's that bad. :(


Definately a sigma difference then, unless you happen to be playing with the same guys in TS.



I think so. With Team Slayer, I'm going in with relatively the same people (it changes between or two guys at times). But in Team SWAT, it's my friend and I who go in together and get paired up with randoms (same goes with our opponents).


Try finding some temporary new partners for TS...try and win a net 5-7 games with them. Bet you rank up.


[Edited on 06.28.2008 6:27 PM PDT]

  • 06.28.2008 6:27 PM PDT
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you realy done your homework on this.

Good job!
[][]

  • 06.29.2008 2:07 AM PDT

Posted by: Domino Theory 2
I think so. With Team Slayer, I'm going in with relatively the same people (it changes between or two guys at times). But in Team SWAT, it's my friend and I who go in together and get paired up with randoms (same goes with our opponents).
Baaaaaah is right. In TS you've played a ton of games and in SWAT you have less games played. Playing with randoms seems to level you up faster than playing with the same few teammates all the time. I know it's bunk but you are just going to have to keep playing and winning to get that 50 in TS. Play with one good partner and pick up a couple randoms. Set your search to closest skill and hope the system gives you a good run of games with opponents equal or higher that you.

I've got a ton of TS games played myself. I lost one, went down to 44 playing with some friends a while ago so yesterday I decided to play with some randoms. It took me 3 wins to get my 45 back (after taking 1 loss to go down) and then I won the next 4, lost one, won the next 5 and still did not go up to 46. I've strung a good 7-8 wins in a row and not gone up to 46 playing in a team of 4. It seems that just 1 loss can set you back a lot, even if their skill levels are close to yours.

  • 06.29.2008 6:59 AM PDT

Great thread. I personally believe that their should be a greater reliance on an individuals performance in the game. Trueskill is all about finding the players skill right? So if a player gets 24 kills and 8 deaths but his team is horrible and they lose the game, why should he go down in rank? He is clearly much better then those people he is currently playing against.

  • 06.29.2008 7:11 AM PDT

To survive adaptation is necessary.

Very good thread. Anybody who got a minimum of brain can understand what you say and it is very informative. Very nice job.

  • 06.29.2008 8:30 AM PDT

in ur base

Explains the system perfectly.

Though, the problem with the system is, people who get better at the game over time.. get no love.

  • 06.29.2008 8:51 AM PDT
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Posted by: Jay120171
Play with one good partner and pick up a couple randoms.


I dunno Jay. In my experience, even that one partner can be very hampering for leveling. I'm running into this on one of my test accounts right now.

  • 06.29.2008 10:41 PM PDT