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  • Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.

Posted by: Baaaaaaaaaaaaah
Posted by: Jay120171
Play with one good partner and pick up a couple randoms.


I dunno Jay. In my experience, even that one partner can be very hampering for leveling. I'm running into this on one of my test accounts right now.
As long as both players who party up have played a lot with other players, it should be OK. Plus, at level 47, you need at least 1 teammate you can count on to win. Totally playing with all randoms seems to be the "quickest" but you still need to win. That's why I say take 1 teammate in with you.

  • 06.30.2008 5:37 AM PDT
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Posted by: Jay120171
Posted by: Baaaaaaaaaaaaah
Posted by: Jay120171
Play with one good partner and pick up a couple randoms.


I dunno Jay. In my experience, even that one partner can be very hampering for leveling. I'm running into this on one of my test accounts right now.
As long as both players who party up have played a lot with other players, it should be OK. Plus, at level 47, you need at least 1 teammate you can count on to win. Totally playing with all randoms seems to be the "quickest" but you still need to win. That's why I say take 1 teammate in with you.


I do agree the trust factor in bringing one guy with you is worth something. I think in my test account I have played with the one partner at way to many stages of the ranking process. We're going to go solo and see how much of a difference it makes.

Its funny we have actually created a situation where our ranks are stalling lower than previous ranks we have attained...and its not because of the win loss ratio. Only explanation is it is attributable to playing with each other too much.

  • 06.30.2008 7:05 AM PDT
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i like i like

  • 06.30.2008 7:15 AM PDT

Posted by: Baaaaaaaaaaaaah
I do agree the trust factor in bringing one guy with you is worth something. I think in my test account I have played with the one partner at way to many stages of the ranking process. We're going to go solo and see how much of a difference it makes.

Its funny we have actually created a situation where our ranks are stalling lower than previous ranks we have attained...and its not because of the win loss ratio. Only explanation is it is attributable to playing with each other too much.
It can and does happen. My TD partner and I each created a one month. After level 5 or so it took a good 4 to 6 wins to go up 1 level. We did this all the way up until level 25 or so. The I got on my main tag which has a ton of games with various people. He level up 2 for each win and we did this for 5 games. He then was 10 levels higher than my new acct. I went back on my new account and again it took 4-6 wins to go up 1 level. So, it highlights how important having divers teammates can be. Playing with randoms, or as many different teammates as possible, does help.

  • 06.30.2008 9:34 AM PDT

wait thats retarded... it says basicly if you win more you rank up slower... thats not the case, the more you win, the easier it is to go up.(trust me i know) major contradiction right there.
it says win more to have a low sigma.... it also says if you have a low sigma you go up in rank slower...... CONTRADICTION.

  • 06.30.2008 9:38 AM PDT
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Posted by: thomas benjamin
wait thats retarded... it says basicly if you win more you rank up slower... thats not the case, the more you win, the easier it is to go up.(trust me i know) major contradiction right there.
it says win more to have a low sigma.... it also says if you have a low sigma you go up in rank slower...... CONTRADICTION.


I think you need to re-read everything.

  • 06.30.2008 9:44 AM PDT
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El Kafungus. Thank you. I had been wondering why I had not been going up as quickly as my friends.

  • 06.30.2008 12:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: El Kafungus
[b]What is the Trueskill system?


The Trueskill system is a player skill rating system for Xbox Live. Halo 3 uses a version of the Trueskill system in order to make the matches fairly even.


oh so thats why its even more inconsistant, if it wasnt a close match on skill then who ever had host and was fairly good will win. even if the other was better.

  • 06.30.2008 1:25 PM PDT
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Yea thanks again for clearing things up for me.

  • 06.30.2008 1:35 PM PDT
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wow my friends and I have been wondering how the ranking system works. this was a lil bit complicated but i got the jist of it. jus keep winning i guess. this helps a bunch man

  • 06.30.2008 9:00 PM PDT
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66 Games Played....66 Experience


33 Team Doubles wins in a row....highest skill =24
33 team slayer wins in a row faceing people that are 20-40 highest skill = 9...


why does bungie hate me?


i have played 66 ranked games and am only a 24 in doubles and a 9 in slayer......i played 33 ranked games of slayer all in one day and won everyone of them side by side not a single loss....and you know what level i am???....im level 9...how can you win 33 ranked games faceing people 20-40 and only go from 1 to 9 in 33 games?


why is it so hard to rank up when your good? im 95% positive that if a team of terrible players go in slayer and win a game they will all go up by 1 or 2...but if you go in and are good at the game and you play with your buddies and use team work and get a steaktacular 55% of the time you will never rank up......


we played 33 ranked games of slayer...one guy started at 24 and went to a 26 one guy started at 35 and went to a 37 i started at a 1 and got to a 9 and by buddy started at 5 and went to 11....how can we not rank up if we win 33 back to back games with out losing?


look at my stats the Gamertag is - Tinch Is Leet

[Edited on 07.01.2008 10:49 AM PDT]

  • 07.01.2008 10:47 AM PDT

I checked out your games and there's nothing special going wrong there. The bottom line is, because of the way that trueskill works, ranking up in Team Slayer will always be slow. It should be a little faster in Team Doubles, and much faster in Lone Wolves. The main reason for this is that trueskill is trying to learn individual skill from team play, which is mathematically hard -- it's much easier to learn individual skill from individual play. In my opinion, this is one of two things MSFT did wrong with trueskill.

  • 07.01.2008 11:04 AM PDT
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Posted by: REANIMATE DEATH
66 Games Played....66 Experience


33 Team Doubles wins in a row....highest skill =24
33 team slayer wins in a row faceing people that are 20-40 highest skill = 9...


why does bungie hate me?


i have played 66 ranked games and am only a 24 in doubles and a 9 in slayer......i played 33 ranked games of slayer all in one day and won everyone of them side by side not a single loss....and you know what level i am???....im level 9...how can you win 33 ranked games faceing people 20-40 and only go from 1 to 9 in 33 games?


why is it so hard to rank up when your good? im 95% positive that if a team of terrible players go in slayer and win a game they will all go up by 1 or 2...but if you go in and are good at the game and you play with your buddies and use team work and get a steaktacular 55% of the time you will never rank up......


we played 33 ranked games of slayer...one guy started at 24 and went to a 26 one guy started at 35 and went to a 37 i started at a 1 and got to a 9 and by buddy started at 5 and went to 11....how can we not rank up if we win 33 back to back games with out losing?


look at my stats the Gamertag is - Tinch Is Leet


Its because you party with the same people every time. That is well documented in this thread. If you don't change it up your rank is going nowhere fast.

  • 07.01.2008 11:05 AM PDT
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What I am, is trapped. And I've been trapped for so long that I don't know what it feels like...to be free.

I think the whole "play with different people to rank up quicker" is not necessarily true because of the people themselves, but because of matchmaking quality. As far as I know, matchmaking quality is also determined into your rank when the TrueSkill assesses whether or not to rank you up, and when you go in with all randoms, or at least one friend, you avoid the party restrictions that are present in Halo 3's matchmaking.

When you avoid the party restrictions, it's MUCH easier to find games instead of the matchmaking system forcing itself to look for a party of 3 or party of 4 whenever you're in a party yourself.

This party restriction thing for ranked matches needs to go.

[Edited on 07.01.2008 2:02 PM PDT]

  • 07.01.2008 1:59 PM PDT
Subject: Leveling up after a loss
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I came here hoping to have some light shed on this mysterious subject of skill levels. I really wanted to believe the OP's explanation as it is very well thought out and comprehensive. However, it does not allow for your skill level to be raised after a loss.

Today my skill level went from 11 to 12 after this game:

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=586819 529&player=SoggyToast111

I came in 4th place.

I don't understand how this is possible if wins and losses are the only stats that the system looks at.

  • 07.01.2008 2:40 PM PDT
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
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Posted by: Domino Theory 2
I think the whole "play with different people to rank up quicker" is not necessarily true because of the people themselves, but because of matchmaking quality. As far as I know, matchmaking quality is also determined into your rank when the TrueSkill assesses whether or not to rank you up, and when you go in with all randoms, or at least one friend, you avoid the party restrictions that are present in Halo 3's matchmaking.

When you avoid the party restrictions, it's MUCH easier to find games instead of the matchmaking system forcing itself to look for a party of 3 or party of 4 whenever you're in a party yourself.

This party restriction thing for ranked matches needs to go.


Its possible you are right but how would you explain doubles partners getting stuck then? I have seen countless examples of doubles guys getting stuck without any matchmaking quality issues.


[Edited on 07.01.2008 2:41 PM PDT]

  • 07.01.2008 2:41 PM PDT

This is one detailed article! I don't know how you found this out, or how long it took you to write it up, but it seems to make sense. I always wondered why I never went up after winning 7 games in a row (or down after losing 3^_^)

  • 07.01.2008 2:55 PM PDT
Subject: Leveling up after a loss

Posted by: SoggyToast111
I came here hoping to have some light shed on this mysterious subject of skill levels. I really wanted to believe the OP's explanation as it is very well thought out and comprehensive. However, it does not allow for your skill level to be raised after a loss.

Today my skill level went from 11 to 12 after this game:

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=586819 529&player=SoggyToast111

I came in 4th place.

I don't understand how this is possible if wins and losses are the only stats that the system looks at.
In LW you can gain skill for coming in 4th if you beat higher levels than yourself and if higher levels than you placed higher. LW leveling is a little different compared to team games. Since you didn't lose much MU from the higher levels placing ahead of you and you gained some for placing higher than some that are higher levels that you, you ended up gaining MU overall even though you got 4th.

As far as EXP, it is considered a loss but for skill adjustments, you came out ahead even placing 4th.

  • 07.01.2008 7:23 PM PDT
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.

^_^

So, I slowly worked my way up to level 45 in lone wolves. However, I took a long break from Halo so when I came back I ended up losing until I was level 34ish... now I got myself back up to 47. Does this mean my "sigma" is really high because I moved around so much?

  • 07.01.2008 9:20 PM PDT

I see you seeing this!

Nice post man

  • 07.02.2008 1:54 AM PDT
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Posted by: bluquar
So, I slowly worked my way up to level 45 in lone wolves. However, I took a long break from Halo so when I came back I ended up losing until I was level 34ish... now I got myself back up to 47. Does this mean my "sigma" is really high because I moved around so much?


Although its possible it increased from losing a bunch of games...it totally depends on how many losses it took. If it was a slow and steady decline you actually probably have lower sigma.

  • 07.02.2008 2:52 PM PDT

the voices there back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thanks

  • 07.02.2008 2:53 PM PDT

^_^

Yes, it was slow and steady. I never gained a level on the way down. Then, when I came back up, I never lost a level. So is my sigma low?

  • 07.02.2008 7:03 PM PDT

Hey, come check out BungieHQ.com

This post proves the importance of using the "Close Skill Range" preference when in ranked matchmaking. I always use it, and many people should now after reading the first post.

It's somewhat dissapointing that ranking has nothing to do with how well you play in a match. However, I guess it would be a very complicated process to calculate every game. In the end, the best rise to the top through this system. And that's the way it should be, is it not?

[Edited on 07.02.2008 10:37 PM PDT]

  • 07.02.2008 10:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: bluquar
Yes, it was slow and steady. I never gained a level on the way down. Then, when I came back up, I never lost a level. So is my sigma low?


Sounds like it is. Good news about LW's is it takes the least # of games to change your rank, even with low Sigma.

  • 07.03.2008 10:23 AM PDT