Halo 3 Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
  • Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.

you wouldn't shoot a guy with his penor hanging out, would you?

i rank up rearly now

  • 07.15.2008 12:56 PM PDT

EDIT: Thought the page error was back - my bad

[Edited on 07.15.2008 1:34 PM PDT]

  • 07.15.2008 1:33 PM PDT
Subject: Yea only one problem it dosent work all the time!

MAsHPoTT!

Posted by: El Kafungus
LoveNub writes:
I had a 15 game win streak in team slayer carrying my whole team most of the time and only leveled up twice oh and also i was playing with 40s when im a 30 so by what you say about how the true skill works i should have been leveling faster than them...
Is this happening to anyone else?


Actually, you being a 30 individually doesn't matter as much for your personal leveling. Neither does carrying the team. Not in a team hopper, anyways. Let me show you why...

Win 1
Win 2
Win 3
Win 4

Loss

Okay, I've taken the liberty of linking to the 4 games immediately after you hit 32 in your streak, and the loss that dropped you down to 31 again.

In those 4 wins, your team level summed up to 3 to 10 more than your opponents in each match. Also, no teams you played against had two forties on the team. Higher levels are weighted more in the team skill summation. The way the system works, those matches were uneven enough to give your team very little in the way of skill advancement.

However, your one loss was against a team only 1 skill level above yours. In addition, according to skill weighting, their team skill (while numerically 1 superior) was probably placed lower than your team's skill. That loss was weighted more heavily than the wins were.

You must have had a higher Sigma than your 42 teammate, as he didn't drop a skill point there.

By the way trueskill works, in a team game, everyone on the winning team is handed the same amount of Mu. Then, the Mu gained is adjusted by a multiple (arbitrarily set by Bungie and Microsoft) of each player's personal Sigma. Only THEN is the Mu added to your total.

So you see, in a team game with team members of uneven rank, if everyone has the same sigma, everyone will rank up at RELATIVELY the same pace. Lower levels seem to rank up more in team games because lower levels TEND to have a lower Sigma, but this is not always true.

P.S. Great no-scope screenshot.

P.P.S. I think your streak was great, even if the Trueskill system didn't. But you DID go up two ranks, which is a lot (over only 15 or so games) for someone who's played as many games as you. Keep it up, the system's re-evaluating your skill.


I understand what you are saying more so than other explanations but I'm still hazy about it

from the last 100 games of lone wolves I've won 58 of them, back in my prime when I was earning my 40 I kicked ass but now that I'm trying to earn a higher rank I suck, maybe because I ain't Brigadier material or whatever thats not the point, has the last few games of lone wolves affected my sigma? If so then say for example I win my next 15 would this lower my sigma in the lone wolves playlist therefore increasing my chance of getting that elusive 41? Also is it true the more exp you have the harder it is to raise your true skill? any feedback would be greatly appreciated because I do not have a clue how the system works.

  • 07.15.2008 3:24 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: MAsH Potato L0L
Posted by: El Kafungus
LoveNub writes:
I had a 15 game win streak in team slayer carrying my whole team most of the time and only leveled up twice oh and also i was playing with 40s when im a 30 so by what you say about how the true skill works i should have been leveling faster than them...
Is this happening to anyone else?


Actually, you being a 30 individually doesn't matter as much for your personal leveling. Neither does carrying the team. Not in a team hopper, anyways. Let me show you why...

Win 1
Win 2
Win 3
Win 4

Loss

Okay, I've taken the liberty of linking to the 4 games immediately after you hit 32 in your streak, and the loss that dropped you down to 31 again.

In those 4 wins, your team level summed up to 3 to 10 more than your opponents in each match. Also, no teams you played against had two forties on the team. Higher levels are weighted more in the team skill summation. The way the system works, those matches were uneven enough to give your team very little in the way of skill advancement.

However, your one loss was against a team only 1 skill level above yours. In addition, according to skill weighting, their team skill (while numerically 1 superior) was probably placed lower than your team's skill. That loss was weighted more heavily than the wins were.

You must have had a higher Sigma than your 42 teammate, as he didn't drop a skill point there.

By the way trueskill works, in a team game, everyone on the winning team is handed the same amount of Mu. Then, the Mu gained is adjusted by a multiple (arbitrarily set by Bungie and Microsoft) of each player's personal Sigma. Only THEN is the Mu added to your total.

So you see, in a team game with team members of uneven rank, if everyone has the same sigma, everyone will rank up at RELATIVELY the same pace. Lower levels seem to rank up more in team games because lower levels TEND to have a lower Sigma, but this is not always true.

P.S. Great no-scope screenshot.

P.P.S. I think your streak was great, even if the Trueskill system didn't. But you DID go up two ranks, which is a lot (over only 15 or so games) for someone who's played as many games as you. Keep it up, the system's re-evaluating your skill.


I understand what you are saying more so than other explanations but I'm still hazy about it

from the last 100 games of lone wolves I've won 58 of them, back in my prime when I was earning my 40 I kicked ass but now that I'm trying to earn a higher rank I suck, maybe because I ain't Brigadier material or whatever thats not the point, has the last few games of lone wolves affected my sigma? If so then say for example I win my next 15 would this lower my sigma in the lone wolves playlist therefore increasing my chance of getting that elusive 41? Also is it true the more exp you have the harder it is to raise your true skill? any feedback would be greatly appreciated because I do not have a clue how the system works.


Winning 15 in a row will not likely lower your sigma...you MAY even raise it. We now know in some instances sigma can increase. You will rank up in a lot less than 15 wins in a row in the low 40's level. I have very low sigma on one of my accounts in LW's, and I can still rank it after about 3 1st's or 5 1st to 3rd's....its at a similair level.

  • 07.16.2008 10:20 AM PDT
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.

Amazing post, without it I probably would have never understood the rank system.

  • 07.17.2008 1:12 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Is there anyway to self calculate weather your going to go up or go down in a match before it starts?

  • 07.17.2008 8:06 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: ShadowGodAvalon
Is there anyway to self calculate weather your going to go up or go down in a match before it starts?


No, because the variables you would need to know are all hidden behind the scenes (sigma's and MU's for both you and your opponents)

  • 07.17.2008 4:32 PM PDT

if k/d dosnt matter than how come you can reach 50 in 24 games of going positive with mvp and you cant without going positive and mvp...

  • 07.18.2008 7:11 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

that was very helpful and thanks for the info:D

  • 07.19.2008 2:58 AM PDT

yeah it ANSWERS stuff but it doesnt FIX the poor way bungie decided to make the rank system it was good in theory but on paper it just sucks sawwee lukems

  • 07.19.2008 3:21 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Ok so I made a new account and it has 60 straight wins on it and its only an 11 how does this happen? Heres my bungie profile just incase you guys wanna see.

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Halo3/Default.aspx?player=High+on +Hazzard

and if the link doesnt work look up "High on Hazzard".

[Edited on 07.19.2008 3:56 AM PDT]

  • 07.19.2008 3:24 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Ok, question for me. I made a new account "Advent Eclipse" incase anyone needs to look.
In team doubles i got to 47 without much of a problem. This is after 100 or so games, and now it seems like its literally stuck at 47. Ive won like 4 in a row without leveling, but at the same time lost a lot in a row without even deleveling, so is it possible im stuck?

  • 07.19.2008 12:17 PM PDT

Thank you very much El Kafungus for an in-depth and excellent explination of the ranking system. Hopefully this partially quells the numorous complaint threads that always start arguments and vice-versa as well.

  • 07.19.2008 12:26 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

wow this is great!

I am so saving this thread! KUDOS!

  • 07.19.2008 12:37 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

http://www.wowomg.com/new/

  • 07.20.2008 1:06 AM PDT

Posted by: Sniper6268
if k/d dosnt matter than how come you can reach 50 in 24 games of going positive with mvp and you cant without going positive and mvp...
You could before mixed skill penalties were turned back on in Team Doubles. Now, it's not so easy. K/D ratio and MVP are not used by the skill system and you can go negative and gain skill. It's been proven a hundred times in this thread alone.

  • 07.20.2008 7:29 AM PDT

Posted by: High on HazzarD
Ok so I made a new account and it has 60 straight wins on it and its only an 11 how does this happen? Heres my bungie profile just incase you guys wanna see.

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/Halo3/Default.aspx?player=High+on +Hazzard

and if the link doesnt work look up "High on Hazzard".
PLaying with only the same teammates doesn't allow the system to learn enough about you individually. This is a limitation and has been explained in detail previously. Unfortunately you have to switch up teammates to begin leveling normally.

  • 07.20.2008 7:31 AM PDT

Posted by: Reassurance
Ok, question for me. I made a new account "Advent Eclipse" incase anyone needs to look.
In team doubles i got to 47 without much of a problem. This is after 100 or so games, and now it seems like its literally stuck at 47. Ive won like 4 in a row without leveling, but at the same time lost a lot in a row without even deleveling, so is it possible im stuck?
You are not "stuck" but the system is designed to require more wins/more losses to move you skill level once you've played a lot of games in a playlist. This is from having a low sigma when you begin to win and lose in equal amounts and the system is predicting the outcome correctly.

  • 07.20.2008 7:32 AM PDT

Bathed In Blood, Crowned In Glory

Well If that's the case, that sigma and mu -blam!-, then I MUST have low Mu & Sigma, because
I try for like an hour to get up, and It didnt....
I ALWAYS get teamed up with crappy teammates In a match, so I think that thier rank system Is trash, because the way I see It, You can get a low rank just because your team sucks!
I'm usually at the top of the list when the match Is over, but even so my team SUCKS!
Idk how some people can be brigadier or General or something, but at the end of the match, homie only gets 3 or 4 kills! I always have like 3 teammates with low scores and 1 team killer and all that, so Bungie and Microsoft cant take that Into account? If thats the case It's not my fault I have a crappy score setting. I played a match a while back where I ended up having 38 kills, and the rest of my team had low scores. The second highest was 9 kills. That's not my fault and I do not think that I should get In trouble because of random people on my team I have never played with before can't play for -blam!-.

[Edited on 07.20.2008 2:50 PM PDT]

  • 07.20.2008 2:45 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

well thought , and you go very descriptively into greater detail

  • 07.20.2008 5:46 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

THANK U VERY MUCH
(applause)

  • 07.20.2008 10:06 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Ok but winning 104 matches without dropping one is ludacris to not be past a level 16.

  • 07.21.2008 1:51 AM PDT

Posted by: High on HazzarD
Ok but winning 104 matches without dropping one is ludacris to not be past a level 16.
I agree but you asked how it could happen and I merely explained how. Currently there is no way around it other then playing with some other teammates. If you don't, you will be very frustrated or have fun playing low skilled players forever. Sad, but true.

  • 07.21.2008 6:55 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Well written.

  • 07.21.2008 6:58 AM PDT