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This topic has moved here: Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
  • Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
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How does negative xp boosting work then? Why bother?

  • 01.06.2009 5:31 PM PDT

Posted by: Plastic Icecubes
How does negative xp boosting work then? Why bother?
It doesn't although a lot of people think it does. It's actually an increase in sigma cause by chronic quitting. This forces the MM system to place the "enabler" and his partner in "high quality" matches where the system gains a lot of info about him. It does this in an effort to "find" the "enablers" true skill. This only really works in the Team Doubles list due to the small party size and large amount of players playing in it at any one time. Trying to do this in a 4v4 list would be much more difficult and I am not sure it would even work.

  • 01.07.2009 8:27 AM PDT
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I've been waiting forever to have an understanding of how the leveling actually works. Thank you for finally addressing the issue!

  • 01.07.2009 2:45 PM PDT
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Disclaimer: The following experiment and second account wasnt conducted in an attempt to fool the system or reach level 50 in an easy way. I doubt that I could reach level 50, I'm simply not skilled enough and that in combination with a trans-atlantic connection on which I' m never getting host makes it real tough. I do however feel like I'm better than lvl 9 which is what I'm currently at and I'm between 40 and 46 in most lists on my main account.

This disclaimer is here to make sure that this isnt turned in to a second account discussion. Even if it had been a second account as in an attempt to fool the system you shouldnt be blind to the fact that it's proof that the system to some degree and under certain circumstances is falling short.


Now on to the story. I experienced severe problems with ranking up on my main account even though I was playing in small parties where everyone was within 5 levels of eachother. I like to think that the party system plays a big part in Halo 3 just like it did in Halo 2 so it's crucial that a skill system is working under these circumstances.

When I'm saying that I had severe leveling problems I'm not talking about 4 straight wins as a lvl 43 or whatever, it goes without saying that it should take more wins to level in those regions although I'm personally of the opinion that the faster a good player is able to level up the faster he gets to play those it's own skill which is what the level systems are about. But no, my problems came much earlier, in the 5-20 region. It shouldnt take 20 straight wins for a level 18 etc to level up just because he/she is playing in a party with 3 other people when those people are in the same level span.

So with that said I had to play alone if I wanted to level up. This is something that kills the whole purpose of a party system not to mention that when we were in a party we were, without bragging since we're talking about real low levels here, totally destroying the other teams which they wont benefit much from either.

All this talk about sigma etc lead me to beleive that perhaps it was just that I had been playing too many ranked and social games, this depsite that I'm really not playing that much, so that my sigma eventually had gone down the drain and I simply couldnt rank without playing alone for one or another reason.

So I created a new account some days ago around the time as my friends did the same. We've more or less played every game together and we're all having severe problems with leveling up........ again. We've focused on slayer and as of now we got 36 wins out of 37 games, I dont want to make up excuses for the loss but we were up against second accounters and our random team mate went -10 so we lost with 4-5 points.

We leveld up as expected the 2-3 first games but since then we've just been stuck so it has taken me around 30 straight wins to level up from lvl 6 to lvl 9. Surely this cant be the way Bungie planned it? Most games have ended in overwhelming victory and a good deal with the opponents not getting more than 0-10 kills.

The outcome of this is that we're slowely losing the will to play since it's not challenging, the opponents are having a bad experience and we're probably also losing personal skills since we dont even have to care to win.

There is no doubt in my mind that I would have leveled up if I had been playing without a party but yet again why should I have to?

UPDATE: We've now played 62 team slayer games and won 61. We've recieved 51 steaks and I'm still a level 11 in the playlist. I dont see how anyone can deny that the system isnt working. It took me 2 games to go up to lvl 6 so it has basically taken 59 straight wins to go from lvl 6 to lvl 11.

[Edited on 01.10.2009 1:33 PM PST]

  • 01.10.2009 9:25 AM PDT
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I am currently a 35 in Lone Wolves, if I were to loose game after game, would my Rank go down to a Major again?

  • 01.10.2009 2:06 PM PDT

Awesome. This clears up a lot of things. Although it still leaves the freak occurences (like getting first place in a lone wolfs game when all but one of the other players has a higher rank than you and you still going down in skill) unexplained.

  • 01.10.2009 7:57 PM PDT

good stuff, helped me understand it, and its fair and makes perfect sense

  • 01.10.2009 8:04 PM PDT
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Founder of Furious Forgers, the group where the creative part of you can be unleashed.

The way you explained the system doesn't really help. You explained things well,but I think the system is just screwed up and won't allow you to go up, but drops you in a heartbeat.

[Edited on 01.11.2009 8:01 AM PST]

  • 01.11.2009 7:59 AM PDT

Finallly i have been looking for something like this thred for monthes because im stuck as a major

  • 01.11.2009 9:38 AM PDT
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yeah, I'm a skill level 12 and my friends are all skill level 30's and i can beat most of them 9 out of 10 times. so it doesn't really seem to work for me.

  • 01.11.2009 5:50 PM PDT
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sig goes where?

It's a shame the OP's account no longer exists, this was a great contribution

  • 01.11.2009 5:59 PM PDT

Failure is always an option.

Sounds logical.

  • 01.11.2009 7:43 PM PDT
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Why was this unpinned?

  • 01.11.2009 7:47 PM PDT

Posted by: Batzter
UPDATE: We've now played 62 team slayer games and won 61. We've recieved 51 steaks and I'm still a level 11 in the playlist. I dont see how anyone can deny that the system isnt working. It took me 2 games to go up to lvl 6 so it has basically taken 59 straight wins to go from lvl 6 to lvl 11.
If all of you are on fresh accounts that have never played Team Slayer with anyone else but you 4, you will be very frustrated. When you play exclusively with the same 4 players, the system cannot glean enough info about you individually and you get stuck at around level 18. This is one known flaw that has yet to be corrected. It was acknowledged a few months after release but Bungie has been very quiet about any and all things TrueSkill. Playing some games with other players or randoms will allow you to level normally. If all of you play with randoms for some games, you can then party back up and level normally. I am just unclear on exactly how many some games are.

  • 01.12.2009 10:08 AM PDT
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Posted by: Jay120171
......but Bungie has been very quiet about any and all things TrueSkill. Playing some games with other players or randoms will allow you to level normally. If all of you play with randoms for some games, you can then party back up and level normally. I am just unclear on exactly how many some games are.

That pretty much sums things up. I wish that they would atleast comment on it or hint that they are working on fixing it ....but nothing.

The outcome is a bunch of threads on the topic in here with many turning in to flame threads since the only thing people are paying attention to is that the OP is on a second account. So those threads are more or less killing themselves. An even bigger con is that the population of second accounters and good people in the lower level spans is increasing which affects those who really a new to the game. I'd be frustrated as hell if I was new to Halo 3 and kept running into teams that beat my team with atleast 40 points in every game.

  • 01.13.2009 12:00 PM PDT

Owning Noobs Since 05

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Nice thread..................Why is the dude that made the thread deleted??? WTF?!

  • 01.14.2009 11:13 PM PDT
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See I have to disagree with this for one simple reason. In the myth busting section it states that it's about how well you do in the game. MVP, high k/d spread, ect. I've been having a problem [I have even written Bungie about] with the skill ratings. My fiance and I were playing Team Slayer. He was at 11, I was at 14. He went up to a 22 that day, while I still sit at a 14. My k/d spread was better than his, I was MVP, more medals... the whole shabang. Still I was not awarded what I earned. Bungie... this is where you have a problem that needs to be looked at. To me, your skill ranking system is unfair.

  • 01.14.2009 11:25 PM PDT

This helped when i was lost with the ranking system!!

~ PK

  • 01.18.2009 5:58 AM PDT
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Posted by: Duardo
Nice job. Well done.

  • 01.18.2009 6:14 AM PDT

There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.

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Posted by: Lovely Leney
See I have to disagree with this for one simple reason. In the myth busting section it states that it's about how well you do in the game. MVP, high k/d spread, ect. I've been having a problem [I have even written Bungie about] with the skill ratings. My fiance and I were playing Team Slayer. He was at 11, I was at 14. He went up to a 22 that day, while I still sit at a 14. My k/d spread was better than his, I was MVP, more medals... the whole shabang. Still I was not awarded what I earned. Bungie... this is where you have a problem that needs to be looked at. To me, your skill ranking system is unfair.
You can disagree, but you'd be wasting your time. It is all about wins, your rank, the rank of your teammates, and the rank of your opponents. If your partnerranked up more quickly thasn you, then he must have played fewer games in that particular playlist. With more game history, the more static your rank becomes.

  • 01.18.2009 6:41 AM PDT

There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.

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Posted by: E60MkNeelz360
I need a short and sweet explanation of how true skill works and why exactly I'm having issues leveling. If its an algebraic equation you're willing to give me, please interpret it and show variable representations so I can know how to calculate it.
OK, I'll try. The ranking system is not a trophy or achievement system. It's not a question of earning ranks. The rank you have is a reflection of your past record. The only things that matter are wins and losses, and the relative rank of you, your teammates, and your opponents.

If you want your rank to go up, you must consistently beat people of your rank or higher. Beating people of lower rank doesn't help. This is what confuses so many people and why not all wins affect your rank the same way. Also, if you lose to higher ranked people, you won't go down. It's all about what is expected. If, according to your rank, you should win, you gain nothing. If you should lose, you lose nothing. If you shoudn't win, then that's when you start to gain ground. This is how people get those stories about winning 10 in a row and not going up, and then losing one and going down. They beat a lot of lower ranked players and then lost to them once. It can happen that way, especially if you are playing with a teammate that is lower than you. Your opponents will be lower ranked as well.

The number of games played affects the system as well. It has nothing to do with experience points. If you have a large game history, and you start winning and losing an even number of times, then your rank starts to even out. You are what you should be at that point. The good thing about this is that it will be difficult to drop when you lose, but it will be difficult to go up as well. Thinkn of the rank as an average. The more numbers in the mix, the harder it is to raise or lower the average.

Things like number of kills, kill/death ratio, medals, being MVP, are all meaningless with respect to your rank. If we are on the same team, and all thigns are equal, bu you carry me in the win, we both benefit the same way. This may seem unfair, but over the course of a large game history, you can't play poorly and win, so it will even out.

The only problem with the ranking system is the people who have figured out how to manipulate it. I don't know how it works, but players who play with ana account that has quit a ridiculous number of times, can rise faster than in normal situations. That is why some players have gotten to a level 50 in 25 games or so. They cheated. The bottom line is that you can't expect anything. There is no prdicting how many games it will take, because you can't predict all your teammates or any of your opponents.



  • 01.20.2009 4:54 AM PDT
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  • 01.20.2009 5:55 AM PDT
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Posted by: E60MkNeelz360
Im still having a little bit of a problem understanding the gist of this.
My beloved gamertag, Neeley7050, has had numerous issues leveling in Team Slayer.

"I also believe that the system is weighted so that the peak of the normal distribution is around level 20, not level 25. That means it will take more wins to level through 1-25 than it will 25-50. Which makes a bit of sense, if you don't want the highest levels too terribly crowded." - Original Post.

Okay well, there's been times when I win 10 or more in a row and did not level once. People say that "I have too much exp to level" Which frustrates me and triggers my anger towards the game's leveling system.

I need a short and sweet explanation of how true skill works and why exactly I'm having issues leveling. If its an algebraic equation you're willing to give me, please interpret it and show variable representations so I can know how to calculate it.


There is a multitude of data on the Microsoft website and linked within this thread in terms of the math behind True Skill. You will never be able to calculate your own rank because only Bungie has the input data.

Basic gist is that the more you have lost, the more certainty the system has in your approximate skill. Sounds like you have lost a lot based on your rank not being fluid, so yes, you need to win a lot of games to move up.

Sorry to sound lazy, but we have covered this question 500 times in this thread.

  • 01.20.2009 4:01 PM PDT