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This topic has moved here: Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
  • Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
Subject: In depth explanation of the Halo 3 skill ranking system.
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Posted by: BrokenXxHero
ok me and my buddy just started playing swat on our accounts so we were at 1s, we won 50 out of 58 swat matches and we only got up to a 23, can anyone explain, cause it seems pretty ridiculous :(


Play 5-10 games without each other and it should get fixed.

  • 03.02.2009 1:45 PM PDT

This is a beastly thread

  • 03.02.2009 7:13 PM PDT

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I am not only annoyed but just disguted on how many people seem to realize that there IS a such thing as a rank lock.

As in the OP which is the best description of the ranking system you can give. Here is something you may have looked over those of you that say rank locking dosen't exist.

Ask yourself... is ever halo palyer a general? No, why? The True Skill system shows that they are not skilled enough to become one. Have a friend who got Halo 3 the day it came out and while he is good he isn't a 50 in anything? Well I haz news. Rank Locking is what the True Skill systems tries to acomplish. Once you have reach your TRUE SKILL you should not move down or up since that is where you should always be at. So if you still don't believe that rank locking exists then read the ENTIRE OP and then read mine. Ask yourself why I am not a general and if you are then you are the True Skills "perfected product" you have reached the Maximum skill so therefor you are a 50 for life even if you drop your skill in it for any reason. Now just like in the OP there a many variables that come into play but rank locking does exist the system wants to rank lock you but its very difficult since every game that you play and every game that your opponents play(ed) all go into configuring your True Skill.

  • 03.03.2009 6:29 AM PDT
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Posted by: SushiX0
I am not only annoyed but just disguted on how many people seem to realize that there IS a such thing as a rank lock.

As in the OP which is the best description of the ranking system you can give. Here is something you may have looked over those of you that say rank locking dosen't exist.

Ask yourself... is ever halo palyer a general? No, why? The True Skill system shows that they are not skilled enough to become one. Have a friend who got Halo 3 the day it came out and while he is good he isn't a 50 in anything? Well I haz news. Rank Locking is what the True Skill systems tries to acomplish. Once you have reach your TRUE SKILL you should not move down or up since that is where you should always be at. So if you still don't believe that rank locking exists then read the ENTIRE OP and then read mine. Ask yourself why I am not a general and if you are then you are the True Skills "perfected product" you have reached the Maximum skill so therefor you are a 50 for life even if you drop your skill in it for any reason. Now just like in the OP there a many variables that come into play but rank locking does exist the system wants to rank lock you but its very difficult since every game that you play and every game that your opponents play(ed) all go into configuring your True Skill.


Rank locking is not what True Skill tries to accomplish. It strives to create good matchmaking quality while providing a hill climbing experience. There is no question some accounts get very slow ranking to the point that is is unfair, but that is not a goal of the system.

[Edited on 03.05.2009 12:36 PM PST]

  • 03.03.2009 10:18 AM PDT
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Thanks! helped a lot.

  • 03.04.2009 2:36 PM PDT

"At least I'm grateful Bungie's trying!"
-Silas

If I am a general, then shouldn't i only get matched up with or against other generals 90% of the time? Seriously, how come this does not happen?

  • 03.04.2009 3:13 PM PDT

Posted by: Fos Tis Krisis
Brutes aren't monkeys, Brutes are gorillas. Humans are monkeys, and Spartans are Orangutans.

Posted by: IXI Silas IXI
If I am a general, then shouldn't i only get matched up with or against other generals 90% of the time? Seriously, how come this does not happen?


No, you should be matched against the same skills as yourself in every playlist. Only if you're a 50 in every playlist, you should only see generals.

This is also somewhat stupid with mm, since why should a 50 skill ever meet a noob in any playlist just because he didn't play it before? This is something that also makes the mm suck balls.

[Edited on 03.05.2009 12:45 AM PST]

  • 03.05.2009 12:43 AM PDT

Posted by: Fos Tis Krisis
Brutes aren't monkeys, Brutes are gorillas. Humans are monkeys, and Spartans are Orangutans.

Posted by: BrokenXxHero
ok me and my buddy just started playing swat on our accounts so we were at 1s, we won 50 out of 58 swat matches and we only got up to a 23, can anyone explain, cause it seems pretty ridiculous :(


I can explain it. Halo3 online is so flooded with 2nd accounts, so in just about every game you play you meet say about 75% of them. Many of those have a smaller amount of matches played, and therefore Trueskill haven't yet estimated their skill fully (even though they of course have a skill figure on their profile). When you beat such guys, your victory isn't worth much in the eyes of the system. This effect is also multiplied if your own account is fairly new as well (and your account was a 2nd too with little amount of games played, right?). Also remember, if your opponent(s) is of lower skill than yourself or your own team average, the victory means even less. To sum it up, you level up easiest if a) you beat opponents with established skill b) you beat opponents with higher skill than yourself. c) your account is of un-established skill

Experiment suggestion: Have a somewhat fresh account join a team of gold bar noobs (grade 4s), have a win streak and see what'll happen! hint: the new account will fly up in levels!!

Moral 1: Golden bar and high exp players could be real useful teammates. :)

Moral 2: Matchmaking is -blam!- up beyond belief, and all 2nd accounts did it.

Moral 3: We all get what we deserve.

[Edited on 03.05.2009 2:25 AM PST]

  • 03.05.2009 12:52 AM PDT

this thread has been very enlightening

  • 03.05.2009 1:01 AM PDT

well, i have to admit, the terminology and stuff used in the first post is very confusing. do you think you could "dumb it down" a bit for me?

  • 03.05.2009 6:28 PM PDT

wow really cool man

  • 03.05.2009 6:30 PM PDT
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After briefly scanning through the thread, I never really found an explanation of Sigma. It might be worth noting for those that aren't as knowledgeable in statistics that in a Normal Distribution (http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/trueskill/skill dia.jpg) Sigma stands for the Standard Deviation, which in basic terms - is the average distance of all the points to the average, the most accurate measurement of spread.

In the Trueskill system, the system's insecurity about your actual skill level is Sigma - and hence the lower your sigma, the more likely (according to Trueskill) your skill level = your Mu, which is the average point on the Normal Distribution. Statistically speaking, a nice way to consider your Sigma is the following:

"In a Normal Distribution, approximately 67% of the values lie withing two standard deviations of the mean"

This means that 67% of the area under the graph linked before, lies within the region between one sigma below and one sigma above the mean - eg, if your sigma=1 and your mu=10, then 67% of the data will lie within the skill levels of 9-11. In the context of Halo 3* this means that there is a 67% chance of your actual physical skill level being within one standard deviation of the skill level shown by the playlist. Hence, the higher your sigma, the more unsure about what the exact value of your skill level is - and the more willing the system is to change your rank.

*I am aware that there is a possibility that Halo 3 doesn't follow the Trueskill system 100%, and this statement may not be entire with it's accuracy, but generally speaking it's true ^^

[Edited on 03.06.2009 11:11 AM PST]

  • 03.06.2009 11:09 AM PDT
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Posted by: The Overseer 92
After briefly scanning through the thread, I never really found an explanation of Sigma. It might be worth noting for those that aren't as knowledgeable in statistics that in a Normal Distribution (http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/trueskill/skill dia.jpg) Sigma stands for the Standard Deviation, which in basic terms - is the average distance of all the points to the average, the most accurate measurement of spread.

In the Trueskill system, the system's insecurity about your actual skill level is Sigma - and hence the lower your sigma, the more likely (according to Trueskill) your skill level = your Mu, which is the average point on the Normal Distribution. Statistically speaking, a nice way to consider your Sigma is the following:

"In a Normal Distribution, approximately 67% of the values lie withing two standard deviations of the mean"

This means that 67% of the area under the graph linked before, lies within the region between one sigma below and one sigma above the mean - eg, if your sigma=1 and your mu=10, then 67% of the data will lie within the skill levels of 9-11. In the context of Halo 3* this means that there is a 67% chance of your actual physical skill level being within one standard deviation of the skill level shown by the playlist. Hence, the higher your sigma, the more unsure about what the exact value of your skill level is - and the more willing the system is to change your rank.

*I am aware that there is a possibility that Halo 3 doesn't follow the Trueskill system 100%, and this statement may not be entire with it's accuracy, but generally speaking it's true ^^


True Skill's sigma calculations are not exactly what you would expect though. It is arbitrarily reduced at times even when you are winning, and there is a modifier added back after every game. It is extremely hard to increase your sigma, which is not what you would expect if you skill level actually changed. Basically, sigma in True Skill is much more of a plug than the real statistical definition of sigma/volatility.

  • 03.06.2009 12:58 PM PDT
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...

[Edited on 03.06.2009 11:11 PM PST]

  • 03.06.2009 2:06 PM PDT

Posted by: Timtaztix
yeah this reminds me of the time i got sent to jail for stealing crocs from target becozs i wanted all of the colors because i only got the green wons for my birthday and i wanted more ;)

Posted by:Anonymous User (Deleted)

Ranking = mu - (K * Sigma) ranking equation.



now i do math while playing halo? ='[

good explnation, but it went right over my head.

  • 03.06.2009 2:50 PM PDT

- Canadian?
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Standard issue information storage and sensory group housing.
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No, it does try to "rank-lock" you, it tries to find the perfect spot on the skill ladder so that you win 50% of your games. That's what it's trying to do. But in order to find that position, it must calculate your skill versus EVERY OTHER player. TruSkill really wants you to lose HALF of your games.

  • 03.09.2009 8:32 AM PDT
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Actual skill =/= skill up

?

  • 03.09.2009 5:17 PM PDT
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ok ok i get this and that but seriously i got a new account (ctf ttempo)...im 115 for 118 n ranked which is all i play and all i play is dubs and team slay and im only a 18 we won 68 games straight..we played 50's that were mayb like 25s in slay but we win by 15 or so and dont rank up then a million games later still havent ranked up...ppl complain about this quittin exp stuff but seriously bungie u need to do sumthin about the system...i wreck house we beat 50's that r 184 for like 185 games and i say wow how am i at least not a 45 with my record??? i carry the team every game with 18+ kills so idk anymore what to do...we pay for these xbox live subscriptions but wat do we get??? nothing exactly win every game and dont go up i mean 68 n a row seriously com on...just please help me out before i go crazy...this ranking system needs changed i think every1 would agree????

  • 03.09.2009 10:05 PM PDT
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i got a new account (ctf ttempo)man ive only lost 3 games out of 124 or so...i play dubs and team slay thats it...i carry the team every game and we tear up 50s by a spread of 15+...i dont rank up..im only an 18..seriously dont even say this ranking system is true...i won 68 games n a row and didnt rank up????? just please bungie com on....if them kids r 50s n this system what am i???

  • 03.09.2009 10:10 PM PDT
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in all those messages i mean my gt is tcf ttempo...my bad...but rly bungie com on

  • 03.09.2009 10:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: fivebergs
No, it does try to "rank-lock" you, it tries to find the perfect spot on the skill ladder so that you win 50% of your games. That's what it's trying to do. But in order to find that position, it must calculate your skill versus EVERY OTHER player. TruSkill really wants you to lose HALF of your games.


No, these are simply possible bi-products of quality matchmaking. Lets face it, would you enjoy losing 60% of your games? No. Would you enjoy winning 60%? Yes...but that means someone else needs to lose 60%.

It doesn't want to rank lock you unless you deserve to be rank locked (your skill is accurate). The system could be a little more fluid and recognizing skill changes, but it's basic theories are sound.

  • 03.10.2009 9:21 AM PDT
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Posted by: ctf ttempo
ok ok i get this and that but seriously i got a new account (ctf ttempo)...im 115 for 118 n ranked which is all i play and all i play is dubs and team slay and im only a 18 we won 68 games straight..we played 50's that were mayb like 25s in slay but we win by 15 or so and dont rank up then a million games later still havent ranked up...ppl complain about this quittin exp stuff but seriously bungie u need to do sumthin about the system...i wreck house we beat 50's that r 184 for like 185 games and i say wow how am i at least not a 45 with my record??? i carry the team every game with 18+ kills so idk anymore what to do...we pay for these xbox live subscriptions but wat do we get??? nothing exactly win every game and dont go up i mean 68 n a row seriously com on...just please help me out before i go crazy...this ranking system needs changed i think every1 would agree????


You have broken just about every rule of ranking. You need to read this thread more in depth...the answer to your problem is obvious.

  • 03.10.2009 9:31 AM PDT

Thanks for putting this up, now i have a better understanding.

  • 03.11.2009 3:30 PM PDT

Check out my youtube channel. http://www.youtube.com/user/ultratog1028

more headshots= more kills. more kills=better chance at getting 1st place. unless it is ctf or objective.

k/d doesnt matter for ranking really. but still it is nice to get a positive k/d. as it increases chances of winning.

  • 03.12.2009 10:10 AM PDT

I am 40? Really? How did that happen?

k/d is, to me, a very easy indicator of skill. I am constantly in the - (neg) side of the equation, and I still rank up. I end up being the guy who is the worst on your team, or the one person who is the low scoring bullet catcher. In other words, I am your head shot. I am right now playing against players who WAY out class me. BUT!! Because of the new system, I get sent up.
Here is my proposal. -10 k/o, you go down. +10 k/o you go up. Anything else, you stay where you are. Simple.

  • 03.15.2009 12:39 PM PDT