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  • Subject: new idea of ranking "special member"
Subject: new idea of ranking "special member"

Strange evolution how people have come to believe
That we are it's greatest achievement
We're barely, we're just a collection of cells
Overrating themselves

Posted by: atomic weggie
2. People will act the way they act, regardless of whether it would mean losing something as trivial as flagging threads or their ID saying "Senior Member." BTW, that sounds like an old fart, and if I was assigned that role, I would give it back immediately. I don't need to be reminded I'm old.

Yeah, Weg already has his AARP card to remind him how old he is.

  • 11.14.2007 9:55 AM PDT

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Personally, I simply don't think special member titles would be worth the 'fuss'. Just glancing at the discussion going on in this topic, there are obviously disadvantages and worries about special member titles. I don't see what real advantage they would have. If someone is well-behaved and frequents Bungie.net, they'll make themeself known for who they are anyway.

Custom avatars? Nah. With the option to use your Halo 3 character or your Halo 2/3 emblem, there's plenty of unique avatars out there. Millions of combinations. The only advantage of custom avatars, in my opinion, is to help identify Ninjas and Bungie Employees (and Theme Masters).

Posted by: evilcam
This is from a totally selfish perspective, but I really don't want to suggest or approve members for something like this. There is potential for abuse on our end (the ninjas), since some of us would likely promote our friends without giving it a second thought. That may not be a bad thing exactly, but I still have a problem with it. I usually try to be objective, but I'd have a hard time doing it if this were implemented. Even if we did not approve people for this, we'd likely have to be relied on to suggest who should be rewarded, and the same problem exists in my mind.
I don't see that as being selfish at all. You are voulentarily a ninja. Creating more (unnecessary) work, stress and problems for the ninjas for something with minimal advantages isn't even worth implementing IMO.

  • 11.14.2007 10:01 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: Zoidberg25
I don't see what real advantage they would have.


The greater purpose, and the reason I so adamantly endorse rankings, is that these selectees will act as examples to the community. Right now, we've got Nikolas Newcomer traversing in the the Halo 3 forum, and the thing that stands out most to him is the insults, things that he think sare funny. He wants to make a name for himself, too, so he starts acting like Perry Putdown and Ulyssus Urmom. Sure, you can punish the spammers, but that doesn't get rid of the spam. It's the spam and insulting that is teaching our new members that it is okay to act likewise.

However, with people who stand out in the community as a result of good behavior, this malicious spam is drowned out by the attention-drawing properties of upper-membership. I feel that many people will see these new positions as constructive tickets to fame, and start acting much more positively. we've got to draw attention away from spam and direct it towards a good medium.

[Edited on 11.14.2007 10:57 AM PST]

  • 11.14.2007 10:56 AM PDT

We're the Flintstones kids, ten million strong and growing...

Glass Galaxies - a theme for bungie.net

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Yeah, I see your point. I'm just still not sure if it'd be too much work for the Ninjas.

And I'm liking those bad-boy names. Ulyssus Urmom ftw. ;-)

  • 11.14.2007 11:17 AM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

As others have already pointed out, a lot of what's happening here is speculation. I know that I, and perhaps even most of the people posting in favor of something like this, do not truly believe that the idea will ever happen in its entirety, or at least its current structure as an idea. But it is good speculation nonetheless and hopefully will spark other ideas down the road -- think of this idea as a concept car created by an automobile company or a fashion design shown off at a high fashion runway show in Paris; the car or fashion design itself will never go into full production, but good ideas sparked by the original concept might eventually become popular in time.

At any rate, to state the obvious, there is a basic difference of opinion here: some people think that the idea of stratification or titles will be worth the extra effort in that it will improve forum culture, while others do not. I am one of the ones who is mostly of the belief that it will. I was convinced of that even before lukems did a little pre-experiment for us by saying "help the community and you might get recon armor." Have you seen what people are doing in the forums to try to get it? All of a sudden we have dozens, if not hundreds, of highly helpful, informative threads -- nearly all of them created by new-ish users who are subtly or not-so-subtly trying to get Recon. The incentive of a stupid little armor permutation -- merely because nobody else has it, mind you -- has inspired people to become more helpful forum members. Sure, there are a lot of threads about how can i has recon, but I wouldn't anticipate such a huge response for a forum title; it would probably be something similar to the numbers of "i can has forum ninja" posts that we see now.

To respond to evilcam's post:
Posted by: evilcam
This is from a totally selfish perspective, but I really don't want to suggest or approve members for something like this. There is potential for abuse on our end (the ninjas), since some of us would likely promote our friends without giving it a second thought. That may not be a bad thing exactly, but I still have a problem with it. I usually try to be objective, but I'd have a hard time doing it if this were implemented. Even if we did not approve people for this, we'd likely have to be relied on to suggest who should be rewarded, and the same problem exists in my mind.

I really don't want people breathing down my neck in order to be approved for "senior status" anyway. Be they friends or strangers, I would CONSTANTLY get PMs asking if I could add them or how one is added to that user group. I don't know about you, but I get enough straight PMs reporting things, just chitchatting, or asking how one does this or that. I really don't need the added distraction. I'm here to moderate and interact with the forums, nothing more. I've been having a hard enough time logging in lately, but if I had 20 more PMs a day asking about the senior status thing, I'd probably end up logging in even less. Again that's not exactly a bad thing, but I have my own selfish problems with it.
I completely understand this. Even with a stickied warning at the top of the forum like "If you ask for <whatever> status, you will not receive it," I am positive that the moderators would receive requests and questions, and even pressure or offers for trades ("I'll create such-and-such a post" or "I'll help you rank up in Halo 3" in return for the status). Although I do not think that the numbers of these requests would be bad, there is really no way to tell ahead of time what the demand would be like. However, see below my idea about how to nominate, select, and enforce the senior member status, and you'll see that there is the possibility of little-to-no extra strain on the current mods. I am pretty sure that, although requests might be frequent in the beginning of such a program, they would slack off relatively quickly, especially if the process did not directly require the judgment of moderators or if inquisitors received no reply or a simple "no" in response. I think that the moderators can get a general sense of what the request load would be like by looking at their current levels of PMs now asking about Recon armor or Webcam MVP/Theme Master status.

One other small possibility would be to appoint more moderators, which would spread around the burden and which many people have argued Bungie.net needs anyway. But evilcam, you're right -- this issue IS something to be considered. The only problem is that we can't predict what the extent of the problem would be unless it is implemented.

Posted by: evilcam
CONS: There really is a capacity for abuse here. I honestly wonder if I'm talking to different people sometimes. I know that most of you are indeed different people, but that worry is still there. Alts are a MASSIVE problem on this site, and I simply can't bring myself to trust most of the people I see on this site.

CON: Sometimes elitism is a valid point to bring up. Elitism exists, and we have all experienced it in some way. This feature would at least cause cries of elitism were it to be implemented. If those accusations were untrue, no big deal. If they were true, I think we have a problem. How then do we deal with this problem? And on that note, how would they be selected in the first place? As I said earlier, I'd like to recuse myself from the selection process, if it were to work like the model I imagine it would have to use.

CON: What aside from a special title and possibly a custom avatar would "Senior members" or what have you get? A report feature? I think giving everyone a report feature would be a much better decision than giving it to only a select few. If everyone can report things (with a potential failsafe which would punish those who abuse it) we'd get a lot more done than if only a "trusted" few had it. Anything else?
RESPONSE TO CON #1: There is the potential for a person with alternate accounts getting the higher status on his "goodguy" account and still having a separate alternate account for spamming. You never really truly know anyone on this site, and that's an issue. Of course, Achronos has been sufficiently secretive about his "trust rating" algorithm that we don't really know how it works. Hopefully, the trust rating takes into account those who log in on multiple accounts and automatically lowers their trust rating, regardless of warnings or blacklistings on either account(s). A person would have to have a high minimum trust rating and an established history of x number of months without logging in on an alternate account in order to receive the higher status.

This would not be a complete fix, but even the knowledge of such a system, combined with the secrecy of the trust rating's inner workings, would discourage any user who was serious about trying to be a good member from using alternate accounts. In this way, the system of multi-tiered regular members might even help to fight spam and flaming on more than one front.

RESPONSE TO CON #2: Accusations of elitism would be few and far between. The types of users who received this status would not be the types to abuse it in the first place -- just like moderators. Of course, the accusations would occur from time to time, and they would need to be investigated. How? Well how about this idea, which would take both the selection process and the enforcement process off the moderators' hands:

* The admin and moderators get together and initially choose, oh, say, 25 or 30 members who they believe would be good as "veteran members" (or whatever they're called so that the old people don't get offended).

* Once their trust ratings are confirmed to be high enough, Achronos makes them veteran/senior members.

* Those people establish a private group like HFCS. (the mods and Achronos could also be members of this group at their choosing). The members of this group would then be responsible for nominating, approving, and enforcing other senior/veteran members, all by majority vote. Achronos establishes rigid, objective criteria for nominations, approvals, and enforcement so that a subgroup of senior/veteran members cannot overwhelm the votes in any direction. Additional checks would also be in place to force fair voting.

RESPONSE TO CON #3: I think that the real question is: what is/are the minimum extra feature(s) that next-tier members need in order to make it enough of an incentive to encourage better forum culture? I would argue that the title alone and access to a private group that others don't have, plus perhaps a report feature, would be sufficient. Once again, I refer to the past precedent of Webcam MVPs, Theme Masters, and the Recon armor. Such little silly things like a title or a different helmet encouraged massive community participation (in the webcam games), fan content creation (for Theme Master status), and helpful/informative posting (trying to get Recon armor). I remain pretty sure that a title, a private group, and perhaps one other feature, like thread-reporting responsibilities, especially if easily obtainable by being a rule-abiding, helpful forum member, would be sufficient to improve forum culture in a very significant way.

CONCLUSION
9400+ characters... I think I'll shut up now.

  • 11.14.2007 12:04 PM PDT
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"A wise man once told me don't argue with fools, cause people from a distance can't tell who is who"

Posted by: x Foman123 x
RESPONSE TO CON #1: Hopefully, the trust rating takes into account those who log in on multiple accounts and automatically lowers their trust rating,
I have two accounts that I log into regularly, one that I post on the forums with, and the other is my active gamertag profile which I check my stats with. I know numerous people that have similar situations.
RESPONSE TO CON #2:
* Those people establish a private group like HFCS. (the mods and Achronos could also be members of this group at their choosing). The members of this group would then be responsible for nominating, approving, and enforcing other senior/veteran members, all by majority vote. Achronos establishes rigid, objective criteria for nominations, approvals, and enforcement so that a subgroup of senior/veteran members cannot overwhelm the votes in any direction. Additional checks would also be in place to force fair voting.
The problem with this would be that the majority vote could turn into a popularity contest. I know of several members (not to name names) that would be ill fit as a senior member, although quite popular on the forum. Even with Achronos's overriding power, I doubt he knows very many members on a personal basis. It would be hard for him to monitor status, especially if 10-15 senior members has his or her backing.
I have no problem with number 3.

[Edited on 11.14.2007 12:29 PM PST]

  • 11.14.2007 12:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: Accidentus
Posted by: x Foman123 x
RESPONSE TO CON #1: Hopefully, the trust rating takes into account those who log in on multiple accounts and automatically lowers their trust rating,
I have two accounts that I log into regularly, one that I post on the forums with, and the other is my active gamertag profile which I check my stats with. I know numerous people that have similar situations.

This is a good point -- even some of the Bungie employees and BNet moderators do this. Perhaps the trust rating has already been or could be tweaked to only lower the trust rating of persons who post on multiple accounts, rather than log in to BNet on multiple accounts.

RESPONSE TO CON #2:
* Those people establish a private group like HFCS. (the mods and Achronos could also be members of this group at their choosing). The members of this group would then be responsible for nominating, approving, and enforcing other senior/veteran members, all by majority vote. Achronos establishes rigid, objective criteria for nominations, approvals, and enforcement so that a subgroup of senior/veteran members cannot overwhelm the votes in any direction. Additional checks would also be in place to force fair voting.
The problem with this would be that the majority vote could turn into a popularity contest. I know of several members (not to name names) that would be ill fit as a senior member, although quite popular on the forum. Even with Achronos's overriding power, I doubt he knows very many members on a personal basis. It would be hard for him to monitor status, especially if 10-15 senior members has his or her backing.
As long as someone generally follows the rules and contributes to discussion in a meaningful way, it's hard to think of anything that would make them "ill fit" as a senior member. Remember that, under my idea, at least, "senior members" would not necessarily need to be the most outstanding members of the community -- merely actively contributing, rule-abiding ones who have shown that they can do so over an extended period of time and thus set a good example for newer BNet members to follow.

Also, there would be objective checks and balances in place to prevent inappropriate popularity contests. Even aside from establishing objective criteria, I think of lots of potential checks. For example, any Senior Member who casts a vote for or against a nominee must include a very brief summary of the reasons for the vote. In the event of substantial differences of opinion, Achronos or a master mod could be the final decisionmaker.

  • 11.14.2007 1:08 PM PDT
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how are you going to say grammar is "requisite" when you can't even spell "requisite" correctly. i'm not saying grammar = spelling, but dude, come on... you're just making yourself look foolish.

anyway. i think i should definitely become moderator. i've been on various boards for years. i know how people act and how they work. i could care less if i wasn't mod.

never flaming shouldn't count either. i won't flame you if it's unnecessary, but if you're acting like a 15 year old moron then i'm going to have to whip out the torch.

  • 11.14.2007 1:09 PM PDT
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Ad Astra Per Aspera

Experienced In Life's Little Drama

I don't think it would work. That would be trusting too many people not to do something stupid once they have their custom avatar and colored text. The big guy only trusts a few people on this site, and those people have basically been made moderators. I'm sorry to say this, 99% of this site is too immature to achieve this. Some would make posts about why they were not "chosen" and why others were. Also, "elitism" would play a big role in its development.

  • 11.14.2007 1:23 PM PDT

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

Posted by: Ada Astra
I don't think it would work. That would be trusting too many people not to do something stupid once they have their custom avatar and colored text. The big guy only trusts a few people on this site, and those people have basically been made moderators. I'm sorry to say this, 99% of this site is too immature to achieve this. Some would make posts about why they were not "chosen" and why others were. Also, "elitism" would play a big role in its development.


the idea is promoting good behavior and rewarding special memebers out there

also anyone that asks for being a senior memeber could be ignored and neve made a senior member ever

  • 11.14.2007 6:40 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: galvOH
how are you going to say grammar is "requisite" when you can't even spell "requisite" correctly. i'm not saying grammar = spelling, but dude, come on... you're just making yourself look foolish.

anyway. i think i should definitely become moderator. i've been on various boards for years. i know how people act and how they work. i could care less if i wasn't mod.

never flaming shouldn't count either. i won't flame you if it's unnecessary, but if you're acting like a 15 year old moron then i'm going to have to whip out the torch.

I don't think your posted counted for anything here. Not only was it ineffective, but it's off topic, too.

[Edited on 11.15.2007 10:17 AM PST]

  • 11.14.2007 7:04 PM PDT

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I still think the reward is worth the risk a new title would impose on Bungie.net. I think it will give people something to strive for, while at the same time provides some kind of role model. I really think that if the members here, especially the more immature ones, would see they could have something tangible on the forums, if only they act a little better, I think there will be a huge change.

But, there will always be the jerks who will PM moderators and Achronos asking for this status. But, I think if we had a similar rule to the moderator rule, where if you ask, you definately won't get it, then this will reduce the number of people asking for this new position. At first, it would be bad, but once that rule becomes well known, I'm sure there will be a decrease in members asking for the new title.

  • 11.15.2007 6:19 AM PDT
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Posted by: galvOH
anyway. i think i should definitely become moderator. i've been on various boards for years. i know how people act and how they work. i could care less if i wasn't mod.
I hope that is sarcasm because I don't want to be the one who points out, in public, every reason why you will never, ever be a moderator.

Oh wait... yes I do, but I won't, you should never have even suggested it. Sarcasm or not, no way, José.

  • 11.15.2007 6:45 AM PDT

I'll be on my own side.

"I know how people act and how they work" is a pretty nebulous term. It's not about being on various boards; it's about being a trusted member of THIS one.

  • 11.15.2007 6:53 AM PDT

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Posted by: Pezz
Posted by: galvOH
anyway. i think i should definitely become moderator. i've been on various boards for years. i know how people act and how they work. i could care less if i wasn't mod.
I hope that is sarcasm because I don't want to be the one who points out, in public, every reason why you will never, ever be a moderator.

Oh wait... yes I do, but I won't, you should never have even suggested it. Sarcasm or not, no way, José.


QFT indeed. On what board that galvOH was on over the years did people ever get moderating positions by asking, especially by asking publicly. Someone give this man an unwritten rulebook.

[Edited on 11.15.2007 10:55 AM PST]

  • 11.15.2007 10:52 AM PDT
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So now I'm a beta tester. Let's see where this goes.

Wow! I was completely unaware that a system that, with a simple title change or more avatars to choose from, would recognize members that have contributed massively to this forum would be grounds for corruption and abuse.

But I guess we can all agree that giving the slightest of thanks to someone who as proven that they can be a fine example for all community members would cause them to immediately throw their respectability away, turn evil, and use this limitless power to lay waste to of the world’s nations. [/sarcasm]

Let’s do a quick reality check. Is there really a whole lot being asked of here? This is a community. An internet community, but a community none the less. In order to keep a community productive you must develop the members of it by punishing the bad and rewarding the good. There are plenty of systems in place to do away with the bad but what is being done for the good? The answer: simply nothing.

  • 11.15.2007 11:51 AM PDT
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Posted by: Insanity Man
No. It would just promote elitism.

Good try though. Maybe something a little less visible, but custom avatars would just be another way for people to say "look, I am better than you."


I have to agree with all the comments form the start. People who have higher ranks are being arrogant as it is thinking they are the best, Having custom stuff will make them a completed cretin to play with. I think it is a good idea for more ranks and other stuff to be considered but customizing that would end up complete warfare from new players to high skilled.

Gashey J.

  • 11.15.2007 12:01 PM PDT
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So now I'm a beta tester. Let's see where this goes.

Posted by: Gashey J
[I have to agree with all the comments form the start. People who have higher ranks are being arrogant as it is thinking they are the best, Having custom stuff will make them a completed cretin to play with. I think it is a good idea for more ranks and other stuff to be considered but customizing that would end up complete warfare from new players to high skilled.

Gashey J.


That's why we have been talking about people who have been around a while and have proven that they would not abuse it. Skill wouldn't have anything to do with it.

  • 11.15.2007 12:06 PM PDT
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Posted by: Nedge
Posted by: Gashey J
[I have to agree with all the comments form the start. People who have higher ranks are being arrogant as it is thinking they are the best, Having custom stuff will make them a completed cretin to play with. I think it is a good idea for more ranks and other stuff to be considered but customizing that would end up complete warfare from new players to high skilled.

-snip-
That's why we have been talking about people who have been around a while and have proven that they would not abuse it. Skill wouldn't have anything to do with it.

They already do.

Look at the senior member and moderator relationships. If you were on this website as much as me you can notice things like those members asking for kids to be banned for "Warning given" violations, invulnerability to blacklist, and stuff like that.

[Edited on 11.15.2007 12:22 PM PST]

  • 11.15.2007 12:21 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: Biggest Nerd Eva
They already do.

Look at the senior member and moderator relationships. If you were on this website as much as me you can notice things like those members asking for kids to be banned for "Warning given" violations, invulnerability to blacklist, and stuff like that.


Not that I'm gunning for them, but that's not a bonus. Anyone can report a thread, regardless of their behavior.

  • 11.15.2007 12:39 PM PDT
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So now I'm a beta tester. Let's see where this goes.

Posted by: Biggest Nerd Eva
Posted by: Nedge
Posted by: Gashey J
[I have to agree with all the comments form the start. People who have higher ranks are being arrogant as it is thinking they are the best, Having custom stuff will make them a completed cretin to play with. I think it is a good idea for more ranks and other stuff to be considered but customizing that would end up complete warfare from new players to high skilled.

-snip-
That's why we have been talking about people who have been around a while and have proven that they would not abuse it. Skill wouldn't have anything to do with it.

They already do.

Look at the senior member and moderator relationships. If you were on this website as much as me you can notice things like those members asking for kids to be banned for "Warning given" violations, invulnerability to blacklist, and stuff like that.


Actually I have been around here for a while (about 3 years), and in response to your response I don't quite understand what you are getting at? I will assume that you mean people given the "senior member" title would be granted the ability to blacklist people. That is not the case. Senior members would have no extra privileges. They would just have a unique title and maybe some extra avatars to choose from.

  • 11.15.2007 12:51 PM PDT
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Posted by: prometheus25
Posted by: Biggest Nerd Eva
They already do.

Look at the senior member and moderator relationships. If you were on this website as much as me you can notice things like those members asking for kids to be banned for "Warning given" violations, invulnerability to blacklist, and stuff like that.

Not that I'm gunning for them, but that's not a bonus. Anyone can report a thread, regardless of their behavior.

Obviously you didn't understand what I meant which is fine. I can give some examples that I have witnessed myself.

I mean they can report their mod FRIENDS to do stuff for them that are totally unnecessary like blacklist someone when the violation they broke was so small it only needed a blacklist. They usually do this to people that disagree with them or are having a little debate. Most of the time the "Senior member" should be the only blacklisted. Most of the time they flamebait them just to get them blacklisted. And even though flamebaiting is against the rules their moderator buddy will just let them slide because their friends or have seniority.

*Reads post before submitting*
Sorry for rambling on about nothing really, haha. I'm just pointing an injustice out that happens very often.

[Edited on 11.15.2007 1:13 PM PST]

  • 11.15.2007 1:12 PM PDT
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So now I'm a beta tester. Let's see where this goes.

Posted by: Biggest Nerd Eva

I mean they can report their mod FRIENDS to do stuff for them that are totally unnecessary like blacklist someone when the violation they broke was so small it only needed a blacklist. They usually do this to people that disagree with them or are having a little debate. Most of the time the "Senior member" should be the only blacklisted. Most of the time they flamebait them just to get them blacklisted. And even though flamebaiting is against the rules their moderator buddy will just let them slide because their friends or have seniority.


Can you please point out someone with the "Senior member" title you keep referring to? In all of my time on this forum I have never seen it.

Also the mods have been trusted with the integrity of the forums. If they truly have done what you say they have done then the forums need to be shutdown and cut way from this website like a cancer.

  • 11.15.2007 1:30 PM PDT
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Posted by: Reiginko
Good to see at least somebody takes this place seriously

I am sincerely disappointed in everyone except JIMH. JIMH, have a gold star.


',:\ IF YA SAHMELLLL

I have been putting this idea out for a while now:

Long time members should be given a reward for their faithfulness to this website. Therefore, I propose that every member who has been on this site for at least 20 years should be mailed some sort of certificate. It is only fair. What do others think of my proposal?

  • 11.15.2007 4:15 PM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: Nedge
[Can you please point out someone with the "Senior member" title you keep referring to? In all of my time on this forum I have never seen it.

Also the mods have been trusted with the integrity of the forums. If they truly have done what you say they have done then the forums need to be shutdown and cut way from this website like a cancer.


"Senior Member" doesn't exist. Yet. It's what we are discussing in this topic.

To Nerd:
I better understand what you mean now, but I really don't think that happens too much. Granted, I know the modsa bit and I'm sure they recognize my name, but I have little relationship with them beyond that. I do know several people who are in close ties with the moderators, but I don't think they'd do what you were describing.

Besides, if I were a moderator, I'd definately not want someone trying to walk over me and tell me who or when I should ban someone. I'd liike to think they'd feel the same way, too.

  • 11.15.2007 6:40 PM PDT