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Subject: Was it always like this?
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Kitsune are often presented as tricksters, with motives that vary from mischief to malevolence. Stories tell of kitsune playing tricks on overly proud Trolls, greedy Recon armour seekers, and boastful commoners, while the crueler ones abuse poor forum goers and topic starters or devout Ninjas.

I always wonder when I look at threads in the forums, sometimes you see nice people who can spell and present their point of view without getting enraged.
But that seems to get rarer and rarer.
Yesterday there was an argument about drugs in the halo 3 forum, hardly fitting and a highly controversial subject.
The topic turned into a flamefest with "Because I say so" arguments very quickly.
Ninjas locked the topic after a while for obvious reasons.
I recieve a very stupid message from the OP of that thread bashing my kill/death ratio.
I politely respond to him that such messages are childish and that I play my game the way I want to.

Response comes today with further bashing of my k/d ratio and calling me a <insert downgrading word for unskilled here> for having melees as my most killed weapon.
I sit silently and repeatedly ask myself the question: Why?
Because my opinion differs from his?
Should it even matter?
Spare me the "Welcome to internet" posts, iknow very well what kind of people there is who hides behind their monitors.
But I saw in a bungie update that they had come to expect structured and well written topic/questions from the community, and I had to laugh, that seems pretty high standards for more than 50% of the registered users, and that kinda bothers me.

If you don't feel like reading the whole wall!!
In short: Was the community always filled with offensive and childish people?
How did the community look pre Halo 1?
How did it look during Halo 1?
What went wrong?

Sorry if I should not make topics like this, but I felt that I had to present my recent experiences, and I do realize that i'm not a saint myself, I have too succumbed to chidlish flaming etc.
I stand for what I have written, but try not to repeat it again.

  • 11.14.2007 2:49 AM PDT

You mean this one? No that is the first time I have ever seen something like that on the forums. I haven't been here as long as some of the other people, but it didn't get that bad until Halo 3. Before that you would have some people that would spam and troll the forums, but the mods were on top of it. Now there is just so much going on that they (the mods) are having a hard time keeping up. It is getting better though, compared to about a month ago. It is up to the members of the community to help out when we can, and to keep this place decent.

  • 11.14.2007 2:58 AM PDT
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Kitsune are often presented as tricksters, with motives that vary from mischief to malevolence. Stories tell of kitsune playing tricks on overly proud Trolls, greedy Recon armour seekers, and boastful commoners, while the crueler ones abuse poor forum goers and topic starters or devout Ninjas.

That is true.
I wonder if there is any permanent solution to a problem like this.
More mods?
Might turn the forums into a temporary policestate until they break down again.
But aslong as the situation is not worsening then it's always better.

  • 11.14.2007 3:22 AM PDT

It will get better over time. For the most part the biggest pain I see for the mods is the severely repeated threads in the Halo 3 and Optimatch forum. It seems like every other thread in the Optimatch forum is asking for either SWAT, Team Snipers, or some form of MLG playlist. I generally post and try to offer something constructive when I do, but I won't post that often in either of those forums, simply because I get tired of the smart mouthed responses. For example, someone in the Optimatch forum made a thread about SWAT. I simply stated that maybe he should look for an already made thread rather than making his own, or use the search button. The response I got was "Shut the -blam!- up you -blam!- -blam!-".

More mods would be kind of hard to do though. They have to be trustworthy. Have common sense, and the time to put in here. Also if there were more of them they run into the problem of trying to work together, without getting in each others way.

Eventually there will be less people coming here on a daily basis, which means less problems. Either that or they will just get themselves blacklisted. In any case it will get better.

  • 11.14.2007 3:38 AM PDT
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The population for Halo 3 is getting smaller day by day, so the amount of forum visitors should too.

When you think about it... ever since the release of Halo 2... was this forum ever at peace?

  • 11.14.2007 3:55 AM PDT

Posted by: RoffleChops
The population for Halo 3 is getting smaller day by day, so the amount of forum visitors should too.

When you think about it... ever since the release of Halo 2... was this forum ever at peace?

Good point. It was more at peace than it is now though. Like I said before it is up to us to help the mods when we can. That doesn't mean go looking for things to report to them, but if you come across them, let the mods know.

  • 11.14.2007 4:07 AM PDT
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GT: AccidentsProne

"A wise man once told me don't argue with fools, cause people from a distance can't tell who is who"

The majority of Halo 3 players are of the 15-20 year old male demographic. Thus, a majority of the users are children, and act like children. Said responder was probably a 15 year old kid.

Also, the forums have always been like this. There have just been more people due to the release of H3, the ratio between dumb and smart people has stayed the same. It just seems like there's more dumb people because there's just more users in general.

  • 11.14.2007 4:13 AM PDT
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Posted by: Kitsune88
I recieve a very stupid message from the OP of that thread bashing my kill/death ratio


BTW I checked your profile. I don't know what he was talking about. Your k/d is above 1.00 in both social and ranked, that makes you a successful player technically. The person mocking is sadly just one skid mark on the overly stained backside of the internet.

  • 11.14.2007 4:35 AM PDT

-Quaere verum.

Got a report? Use the report tool or send a pm.
Chairleg Productions presents: 'Console Wars' and 'Games as Art?' (also on Halo Waypoint).

More people coming to the site and posting on the forums means there is a greater risk of people acting as you describe. It is reasonable therefore to say that pre Halo: CE, the community was 'better' and 'nicer' because ultimately it was a smaller community. I think aswell, times have changed in general and people have changed with them. More and more people are able to access the internet and it's so simple now to sign up as a member of a website and get posting on their forums.

The best we can hope to do is stop the vast majority of users from breaking rules and being immature but i suspect there will always be those who need tozting.

  • 11.14.2007 4:49 AM PDT
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You know I have yet to be flamed but I've only been posting for about two weeks so I attribute it to that. Everytime I post something I do expect to get flamed and just consider myself fortunate when I don't. I do see alot of people get flamed though and just think to myself was that really neccesary. Having the GT that I have it opens a lot of doors to racial flaming and it hasn't happenned yet. I do agree though there are alot of rude and disrespectful people in the forums. There are also a lot of legitimate posters with interesting points who can argue them intelligently so I'm definitely glad for that.

  • 11.14.2007 4:53 AM PDT
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I'm "D king"
Posted by: King Karp
I would never eat a pet, as in an animal.
Now, if it was a pet cake or pie, then Hell YEAH! I'd eat that -blam!- man!

Posted by: DR WE1RD

More mods would be kind of hard to do though. They have to be trustworthy. Have common sense, and the time to put in here. Also if there were more of them they run into the problem of trying to work together, without getting in each others way.



One idea would be to have temporary Moderators put in place until things die down, using only the most responsible members for the job.
After everything is slower they can just go back to being members.



[Edited on 11.14.2007 5:00 AM PST]

  • 11.14.2007 4:59 AM PDT
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GT: AccidentsProne

"A wise man once told me don't argue with fools, cause people from a distance can't tell who is who"

Posted by: Chillaxin Asian
You know I have yet to be flamed but I've only been posting for about two weeks so I attribute it to that. Everytime I post something I do expect to get flamed and just consider myself fortunate when I don't. I do see alot of people get flamed though and just think to myself was that really neccesary. Having the GT that I have it opens a lot of doors to racial flaming and it hasn't happenned yet. I do agree though there are alot of rude and disrespectful people in the forums. There are also a lot of legitimate posters with interesting points who can argue them intelligently so I'm definitely glad for that.
People who write well thought out and grammatically correct sentences are far less likely to be flamed.

  • 11.14.2007 5:24 AM PDT
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I have noticed this as well. These people are so insecure and childish that they are willing to post idiotic material in the forums like the situation you described. Groups have also come to this issue. Group wars are destroying groups that people worked hard to create and breaks up some trust between groups. I have heard that some people blame moderators for this issue, but I don't blame them. I blame the flamers that signed up for Bungie. net. They have to police themselves before they can have someone police them.

  • 11.14.2007 7:35 AM PDT

"I don't even dare call those things magnums."

I'm not sure if the community is getting mean because there are people out there that just haven't matured completely or if there are many children signing on to the site. I remember two years after Bungie created Halo, my friend told me about this forum. It was peaceful with very little flames and arguments that were blown out of proportion. I left the site for two years or so and signed back up because of the release of Halo 2. Honestly it did change. I think its the people, who not to be offensive, need a reality check and technically when your on a forum talking to people, its like having a conversation in real life, where if you hear what someone said, you over react. Honestly I also believe that some kids without parental control search the internet and find this site. That means less maturity to go around. I just talk to the people in the community like I would in actual life. This is called a community for a reason and i believe that as a community, would should all respect each individual on the forum.

  • 11.14.2007 8:49 AM PDT
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Posted by: Accidentus
Also, the forums have always been like this.

No. Not by a long shot. It used to be a tight-knit community of about 100 regular posters, with a couple -blam!-s thrown in. But that was over 3 and a half years ago, so it seems like these forums have always been filled with stupid users.

  • 11.14.2007 10:37 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: Kitsune88
I wonder if there is any permanent solution to a problem like this.


To me, the solution is education. New members go straight into the Halo 3 forum and see bad behavior, so they act such. If, when you were growing up as a kid, you had nudist parents that had alcohol-enraged arguments, chances are, when you're older, you'll be walking around the streets naked, screaming at people and thrashing your bottle of booze everywhere.

If we would set outstanding examples of good behavior throughout the community, people would want to act like them. Right now, they see these funny insults, and try to out-flame each other becuase it draws attention. We need to draw attention away from the flames and direct it towards a positive model. Elitism be damned.

[Edited on 11.14.2007 10:48 AM PST]

  • 11.14.2007 10:47 AM PDT

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Posted by: Kitsune88
I recieve a very stupid message from the OP of that thread bashing my kill/death ratio.
I politely respond to him that such messages are childish and that I play my game the way I want to.
I was posting in a topic before about the '100 custom content items' limit, and some guy randomly tries to insult me with the old K/D thing. My K/D is around 1.2 by the way (which I thought was pretty good). I'd never heard of this guy before, and he had no point to make. Nothing I said could possibly offend anyone (in any way I could tell). I just assumed he was an ignorant person. The scary thing is, a few days later, I saw him posting saying he's a 37-year-old with 2 kids. I know age doesn't necessarily equal maturity, but I was shocked.

I do realize that i'm not a saint myself, I have too succumbed to chidlish flaming etc.Haven't we all?

  • 11.14.2007 11:06 AM PDT

"I don't even dare call those things magnums."

Posted by: prometheus25
If we would set outstanding examples of good behavior throughout the community, people would want to act like them. Right now, they see these funny insults, and try to out-flame each other because it draws attention. We need to draw attention away from the flames and direct it towards a positive model. Elitism be damned.

I agree with the good behavior theory. If posters who say nothing to the person who has just flamed them, they will feel empty and not know what to do because the argument didn't spawn. If only users wouldn't get enraged by the people who flame them, no one would have any arguments. I think you understand what I'm getting to. Either that or they come here to vent and that gets annoying.

  • 11.14.2007 11:48 AM PDT
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Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: prometheus25
To me, the solution is education. New members go straight into the Halo 3 forum and see bad behavior, so they act such. If, when you were growing up as a kid, you had nudist parents that had alcohol-enraged arguments, chances are, when you're older, you'll be walking around the streets naked, screaming at people and thrashing your bottle of booze everywhere.

If we would set outstanding examples of good behavior throughout the community, people would want to act like them. Right now, they see these funny insults, and try to out-flame each other becuase it draws attention. We need to draw attention away from the flames and direct it towards a positive model. Elitism be damned.


Agreed 110%. If I may be so bold as to quote myself from a previous thread that I created about three-and-a-half months ago:


The Problem

Notwithstanding the apparent feelings of some users here who think the Halo 3 Forum and other public forums on this site are "under control" or "doing just fine," I think that most would acknowledge that an intelligent discussion in those forums has become impossible. Indeed, make a casual reference about "intelligent discussion" here in the Community Forum, and you will immediately receive three or four sarcastic comments in response.

It does not have to be this way. Multiple recent polls have shown that the vast, vast majority of users here are of high school age or older. Polls are not scientifically reliable, of course, but even common sense and a little bit of observation of what people talk about on this site can lead us to the same conclusion. Moreover, many of us are at the university level or higher. At these ages, people should be expected to act more mature. I am convinced that with a little bit of encouragement and prodding, this result is attainable.

A Culture of Intelligent Discussion

I have mentioned, in a few of my posts recently, a sociological epiphany-of-the-obvious that I had: on this site (as in most situations in real life), people react to and conform to the behaviors of those around them. I have seen the very same users who post one-liner spam and flame comments in the Halo 3 forum come to CompoundIntelligence or the Community Forum and create a well-thought-out, coherent post. And I have seen the opposite -- users that I respect from their posts in the Community Forum or in CompoundIntelligence visiting the Halo 3 Forum or the Flood and changing their behavior and posting style to become 12-years-old all over again.

It is indisputable that most of us would like to be able to go to the Halo 3 Forum and have an intelligent, rational discussion. Over the course of the day today, I observed as a very thoughtful and well-written post by a user named Adreniline in the Halo 3 Forum disintegrated into petty flames and spam solely because the thread mentioned MLG. As Recon marveled when he closed the thread, "Once again, a thread about a Halo game that mentions MLG has become less about the game, and (once more) about MLG (and the assumptions/presumptions from both sides of the street). . . . Amazing."

This kind of thing is not okay. Locking threads that go out of control is like the oft-cited example of the general citizenry standing by and thinking it's okay that they just enable the police to arrest criminals after they've already committed the crime, yet ignoring the factors that cause crime in the first place. We are the citizenry, the moderators are the police, the criminals are the bad posters, and the crime is the bad post.

Our moderators are excellent enforcers, but we cannot blithely rely on them while ignoring the underlying causes of our inability to to understand or post rationally in the Halo 3 Forum. If we dare to purport to want the same thing that the Bungie staff wants out of the Halo 3 forum, we must do more. As we can easily observe in other places on this site that are rife with Halo 3 fans, this high-quality-posting culture IS attainable. Yet we, the loyal and longtime Bungie fans, sit back and do nothing to try to help attain it in bungie.net's most popular public forums, instead saying that merely enforcing the rules against bad posts after they already occur is sufficient. But as can be seen at any hour of the day in the Halo 3 Forum, this approach is not good enough.

Not the Bungie staff but rather the Community -- the source of 99% of the regulation, administration, and culture inherent in these forums -- needs to encourage a culture of intelligent discussion. Do this, and you will find your own experience much more enjoyable. Those of you who find the Halo 3 forum far too frantic for real discussion and retreat instead to the sanctuary of the private groups will finally be able to emerge and have real discussions with other fans of the game.

We all need to help with ideas and actions if we are going to help to slowly turn around the culture of spam and flames resident in the Halo 3 Forum.

[Edited on 11.14.2007 12:19 PM PST]

  • 11.14.2007 12:18 PM PDT
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My halo 2 stats
Kitsune are often presented as tricksters, with motives that vary from mischief to malevolence. Stories tell of kitsune playing tricks on overly proud Trolls, greedy Recon armour seekers, and boastful commoners, while the crueler ones abuse poor forum goers and topic starters or devout Ninjas.

Wow Foman, you said it better than I could ever hope to do.

Over the course of the day today, I observed as a very thoughtful and well-written post by a user named Adreniline in the Halo 3 Forum disintegrated into petty flames and spam solely because the thread mentioned MLG. As Recon marveled when he closed the thread, "Once again, a thread about a Halo game that mentions MLG has become less about the game, and (once more) about MLG (and the assumptions/presumptions from both sides of the street). . . . Amazing."

The problem with threads mentioning MLG in any way is the fact that many people are offended by MLG as a group on some level, and they then proceed to believe that everyone has the same opinon on that matter.
When some people reads posts they pick out only what interests them and starts making arguments about that, while completely forgetting the original purpose of the topic(Derailing/Hijacking).

We all need to help with ideas and actions if we are going to help to slowly turn around the culture of spam and flames resident in the Halo 3 Forum.
That is too true, sadly.

  • 11.14.2007 10:39 PM PDT
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I blame Stosh.

  • 11.14.2007 10:42 PM PDT

"I pledge to punch all switches, to never shoot where I could use grenades, to admit the existence of no level except Total Carnage, to never use caps lock as my "run" key, and to never, ever, leave a single BoB alive."

2B || !2B - Why don't you look Inside the Machine?

Some of you guys have it good. I remember before we even had a spam filter, ick. Love your neighbor, don't add gas to the flame-wars, and post nicely. 3 rules to follow for community enjoyment, believe.

  • 11.14.2007 11:56 PM PDT
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Needs. More. Moderators.

  • 11.15.2007 12:40 AM PDT
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Posted by: Reiginko
Good to see at least somebody takes this place seriously

I am sincerely disappointed in everyone except JIMH. JIMH, have a gold star.


',:\ IF YA SAHMELLLL

I hold firm that nothing has essentially changed in some time. Also, intelligence is overvalued by some of you guys.

Place nice and hope others follow your example if you want change.

[Edited on 11.15.2007 12:51 AM PST]

  • 11.15.2007 12:51 AM PDT

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