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  • Subject: Siddhartha
Subject: Siddhartha
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Posted by: ObbiQuiet
Posted by: Canadian_MC
Obbi I just want to know why whenever someone tries to be nice to you, you turn back and insult them.


Really? I hadn't noticed.
Wut are you? Blind?

  • 06.07.2004 4:48 PM PDT
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I suppose I must be.

Gee, I can't believe I've never noticed that before.

  • 06.07.2004 4:49 PM PDT
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Posted by: ObbiQuiet
I merely tried, and failed it seems, to illustrate how reaching the goal of happiness through self-enlightenment isn’t the most productive way to go about it. It's easy to make yourself happy

No it isn't. :P


Fair enough.

, but why not make other people happy at the same time? This is how Tyler Durden's quote makes sense to me.

How did Buddha’s quest for, and attainment of, enlightenment help the human race? How do monks in a secluded monastery following his teachings make the world a better place?


It's making it a better place because these monks are reaching enlightenment without harming anyone else. Tyler Durden's quote is foolish because he forgets that, even in the monastery, the monks are a part of this world.


They aren't harming anyone, but I don't think they are helping anyone but themselves, either.


This is why Buddhism doesn’t appeal to me, because as a philosophy, yes, it can make the world better, but it is taken too far to the point where it’s selfish, and only the individual practitioner is benefiting - self enlightenment. Because of this, Christianity is far more appealing to study.

Are you familiar with Bodhisattvas? They are supposed to be ones who have reached enlightenment but who do not go to nirvana and who choose to stay to teach others how to reach it as well. Many monks would choose to do this.


Yes, I am aware of the fact that just because you reach enlightenment, you don't have to disappear.


Also, remember, the teaching of the Buddha is that only YOU can gain and benefit from true happiness. It is the other's job to reach it as well, but many Buddhists would stay after it is reached (be re-born) to help others to reach it.


It's a little hard for me to remember something that I did not know, but I will keep this in mind for future reference. It sure doesn't peak my interests or change my belief that Buddhism is a -blam!-ory philosophy though.


If you have not yet obtained it, how can you possibly help others effectively to reach it?


I fail to see how this beats going and building a house, or helping somebody learn how to fish. The practical application of Buddhism in the common man's life seems to be lacking.

  • 06.07.2004 4:53 PM PDT
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They aren't harming anyone, but I don't think they are helping anyone but themselves, either.

Yes, I am aware of the fact that just because you reach enlightenment, you don't have to disappear.

It's a little hard for me to remember something that I did not know, but I will keep this in mind for future reference. It sure doesn't peak my interests or change my belief that Buddhism is a -blam!-ory philosophy though.


All philosophies are -blam!-ory. :)

Tell me, is there such thing as a "self-less" act?*

*self-less is defined as an act that you perform for others in which you get no personal gain.

I fail to see how this beats going and building a house, or helping somebody learn how to fish. The practical application of Buddhism in the common man's life seems to be lacking.

It teaches many to be happy with what they have. If it helps the common man to be content, how can you in your right mind say its application is lacking?



[Edited on 6/7/2004 4:58:25 PM]

  • 06.07.2004 4:57 PM PDT
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Book of Mormon-Have u read it?

  • 06.07.2004 5:00 PM PDT
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It would be quite interesting to know what happens when Nirvana is... reached, I suppose is the best word for it. And yes, before you point it out, Obbi, I do not know that much about Buddhism. But from what I do know, it sounds very fascinating and much more plausible than Christianity. Also, it does not have the kind of violent past that Islam, Judaism, and Christianity have, which is a major plus in my book. Reading about the Crusades made me want to renounce my old religion rather than simply converting to atheism.

  • 06.07.2004 5:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: Mosseymou
Book of Mormon-Have u read it?


Yes.

If you want my opinion on it PM me.

  • 06.07.2004 5:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: Terran Grunt
It would be quite interesting to know what happens when Nirvana is... reached, I suppose is the best word for it. And yes, before you point it out, Obbi, I do not know that much about Buddhism. But from what I do know, it sounds very fascinating and much more plausible than Christianity. Also, it does not have the kind of violent past that Islam, Judaism, and Christianity have, which is a major plus in my book. Reading about the Crusades made me want to renounce my old religion rather than simply converting to atheism.


The word "nirvana" means indescribable. This is a simple Buddhist equation.

Suffering = life
life = constant (you die, but eventually you are reborn)
suffering = bad

So, if suffering is life (you suffer when you live), and you're constantly stuck in the circle of life, then suffering lasts forever.

The goal of the buddhist is to finally die. It is to excape the circle of rebirth.

  • 06.07.2004 5:05 PM PDT
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uh oh, this forums gonna be banned, i know it, no religion or politics
meh!
ok just wanted my last beans are displayed.bye

  • 06.07.2004 5:06 PM PDT
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i dont understand why you people are so scared about being flamed and stuff.

  • 06.07.2004 5:08 PM PDT
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What intelligent people, talking about things like this. I am used to "Farting grunt", etc.

  • 06.07.2004 5:10 PM PDT
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I dunno why it's hard to make oneself be happy. If there's anything I have control over, it's how I react to things. I choose to be satisfied with what I've got.
I think that the meaning of life is personal. Different people have different values, and I can't say which are "right". Personally, I like to gather and share ideas. Some others might enjoy destroying stuff. Either way, I can't say that one is right or wrong. A society ENTIRELY of destructive anarchists would probably be satisfied with thier lot. A society of fanatic followers of the same principle would be happy with thier pursuit, and a society of inquisitive folks would probably enjoy being able to share whatever ideas they have without fear of bursting any sensitive bubbles.

Posted by: ObbiQuiet
Posted by: Canadian_MC
Im with knives on that, I dont like making people feel bad, even though i have the power too and they are complete dicks, i will start but once I have power them I stop and i dont have trouble from anyone cuz they know wut i could do them, but im also with obbi, I think the point in life is to improve ourselves, if everyone had morals and was trying to improve themselves, there wouldnt be any killing or destruction.


I can't believe you thought I agreed with that jumble of incoherent nonsense.
I think Canadian was making a joke. Some people can't handle the idea that someone else has more will to strive for one's goals, or can be satisfied with something attainable. Correct me if I'm wrong though, Canadian.

  • 06.07.2004 6:56 PM PDT
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Posted by: ObbiQuiet

All philosophies are -blam!-ory. :)

Tell me, is there such thing as a "self-less" act?*

*self-less is defined as an act that you perform for others in which you get no personal gain.


Mother. Teresa.


It teaches many to be happy with what they have. If it helps the common man to be content, how can you in your right mind say its application is lacking?


Because what we have, or have not, is not important. What we do, or do not, with our lives, that is what matters.

I will not even begin to presume to guess the nature of existance or reincarnation, as that is a debate for a forum that is not this one, and I'm quite obviously ignorant, but what I can tell you is that I do know that a person is born, and then they die. That's one life, and I think that it is important how that one life is spent. The one thing nobody ever has enough of is time.

  • 06.07.2004 7:12 PM PDT
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Posted by: Mosseymou
Book of Mormon-Have u read it?


Haha. Have you?

  • 06.07.2004 7:13 PM PDT
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Yeah, exactly. We aren't born with instructions, so we just do what we can with our time. For some, the best use of time seems to be pondering what the best use of time is...

  • 06.07.2004 7:17 PM PDT
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Posted by: ajenteks
Posted by: ObbiQuiet
I merely tried, and failed it seems, to illustrate how reaching the goal of happiness through self-enlightenment isn’t the most productive way to go about it. It's easy to make yourself happy

No it isn't. :P


Fair enough.

, but why not make other people happy at the same time? This is how Tyler Durden's quote makes sense to me.

How did Buddha’s quest for, and attainment of, enlightenment help the human race? How do monks in a secluded monastery following his teachings make the world a better place?


It's making it a better place because these monks are reaching enlightenment without harming anyone else. Tyler Durden's quote is foolish because he forgets that, even in the monastery, the monks are a part of this world.


They aren't harming anyone, but I don't think they are helping anyone but themselves, either.


This is why Buddhism doesn’t appeal to me, because as a philosophy, yes, it can make the world better, but it is taken too far to the point where it’s selfish, and only the individual practitioner is benefiting - self enlightenment. Because of this, Christianity is far more appealing to study.

Are you familiar with Bodhisattvas? They are supposed to be ones who have reached enlightenment but who do not go to nirvana and who choose to stay to teach others how to reach it as well. Many monks would choose to do this.


Yes, I am aware of the fact that just because you reach enlightenment, you don't have to disappear.


Also, remember, the teaching of the Buddha is that only YOU can gain and benefit from true happiness. It is the other's job to reach it as well, but many Buddhists would stay after it is reached (be re-born) to help others to reach it.


It's a little hard for me to remember something that I did not know, but I will keep this in mind for future reference. It sure doesn't peak my interests or change my belief that Buddhism is a -blam!-ory philosophy though.


If you have not yet obtained it, how can you possibly help others effectively to reach it?


I fail to see how this beats going and building a house, or helping somebody learn how to fish. The practical application of Buddhism in the common man's life seems to be lacking.
They're leading by example. Those who wish to follow them may follow, and will recieve support. Preaching to people who aren't interested doesn't work. When was the last time you bought something from a door-to-door salesman? They offer what they know to any who care to seek it. I don't believe in pressing beliefs on others, I believe in putting ideas out and letting those who are interested have at 'em. I think that's probably the monks' position, too.

  • 06.07.2004 8:03 PM PDT
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Mother. Teresa.

The most common response I've gotten.

To start, lets break things apart. How do you choose to do an action? What causes you to choose it?

(there's a method to my madness; but I must warn you, most of these questions are loaded)

  • 06.07.2004 8:07 PM PDT
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I choose my actions because I think I'll like the results. Is there a better standard? I'm curious now.

  • 06.07.2004 8:13 PM PDT
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I choose my actions because I think I'll like the results. Is there a better standard? I'm curious now

There isn't a better standard. You choose whatever option that your mind judges best. It is impossible to choose something that you do not want to choose.

"Well, I don't WANT to get my arm cut," you may say as you slash your arm. "See? Getting my arm cut is not a desired end."

But it is.

Your mind balanced and chose to slash your arm because the idea of proving a point was more important then physical pain. You wanted to prove a point more then you wanted to not be in pain. You did choose the option you most wanted to do.

Now, the next question: What makes you want to do something?

  • 06.07.2004 8:17 PM PDT
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Posted by: ObbiQuiet
Mother. Teresa.

The most common response I've gotten.


I could have given you a more politically incorrect answer, but thought against it. I could have also gone with the uncle/cousin/friend/complete stranger who risks their life trying to save somebody else, who is drowning, or in the path of a moving vehicle or bullet.

Sorry, I'll get back on track.


To start, lets break things apart. How do you choose to do an action? What causes you to choose it?

(there's a method to my madness; but I must warn you, most of these questions are loaded)


How do I? Well, I'm a selfish little -blam!-, so I think of what I can do to better myself, how to best accomplish it. Someone like Mother Teresa, on the other hand? I can't say, but if I had to guess I'd say that she answered to what she believed was a higher power. Only she can say if she was answering because it was in her best interests, or because it was the right thing to do.

[Edited on 6/7/2004 8:19:29 PM]

  • 06.07.2004 8:18 PM PDT
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*looks confused*
Why would I want to prove a point to myself that's based solely on my wanting to prove a point? Wouldn't such an origin of the whole point invalidate the it?

Edit:
Whoop, sorry about that. I'm trying to ask why I would want to do something to prove to myself what the outcome of doing it is. If I already know, why would I need to prove it to myself?

[Edited on 6/7/2004 8:27:05 PM]

  • 06.07.2004 8:21 PM PDT
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Posted by: forumrunner
*looks confused*
Why would I want to prove a point to myself that's based solely on my wanting to prove a point? Wouldn't such an origin of the whole point invalidate the it?


You lost me.

But you're trying to prove the point to ME.

  • 06.07.2004 8:23 PM PDT
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Posted by: forumrunner

They're leading by example. Those who wish to follow them may follow, and will recieve support. Preaching to people who aren't interested doesn't work. When was the last time you bought something from a door-to-door salesman? They offer what they know to any who care to seek it. I don't believe in pressing beliefs on others, I believe in putting ideas out and letting those who are interested have at 'em. I think that's probably the monks' position, too.


And meanwhile, children are starving in Africa, blah blah blah[insert world problems here], and the monks are only wanting to help those that want to help themselves, as long as they agree with the same philosophy?

  • 06.07.2004 8:25 PM PDT
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Posted by: ObbiQuiet
Mother. Teresa.

The most common response I've gotten.

To start, lets break things apart. How do you choose to do an action? What causes you to choose it?

(there's a method to my madness; but I must warn you, most of these questions are loaded)



Mother Teresa stole a bunch of money. Nuff said.

  • 06.07.2004 8:30 PM PDT
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Why are the children starving in Africa? Someone's exercising free will. We have the power to do whatever we want with our positions and resources. Some choose to contemplate, some hoard everyone's resources so others starve, some help provide compensation, and some argue about farting grunts on Bungie forums. Is it your fault that someone else finds more satisfaction in harming others? We can pour our resources into any charity that we want, but the root of the problem is that some people either don't give a -blam!- about others and some actually desire suffering for others. I think they're trying to go for the root, not the fruit- the only way they can. We choose to exercise our free will as we do. Whose fault is it?

Edit: When I pick up after my brother, he gets the idea that he doesn't have to pick stuff up. When my parents righted things, I got the idea that they shouldn't be the way I put them. Different people react differently. How do you react?

[Edited on 6/7/2004 8:38:17 PM]

  • 06.07.2004 8:35 PM PDT