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  • Subject: Siddhartha
Subject: Siddhartha
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Posted by: ajenteks
Posted by: forumrunner

They're leading by example. Those who wish to follow them may follow, and will recieve support. Preaching to people who aren't interested doesn't work. When was the last time you bought something from a door-to-door salesman? They offer what they know to any who care to seek it. I don't believe in pressing beliefs on others, I believe in putting ideas out and letting those who are interested have at 'em. I think that's probably the monks' position, too.


And meanwhile, children are starving in Africa, blah blah blah[insert world problems here], and the monks are only wanting to help those that want to help themselves, as long as they agree with the same philosophy?



And priests are raping children. I'd rather have monks do nothing than priests -blam!- children.

  • 06.07.2004 8:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: ObbiQuiet
I choose my actions because I think I'll like the results. Is there a better standard? I'm curious now

There isn't a better standard. You choose whatever option that your mind judges best. It is impossible to choose something that you do not want to choose.

"Well, I don't WANT to get my arm cut," you may say as you slash your arm. "See? Getting my arm cut is not a desired end."

But it is.

Your mind balanced and chose to slash your arm because the idea of proving a point was more important then physical pain. You wanted to prove a point more then you wanted to not be in pain. You did choose the option you most wanted to do.

Now, the next question: What makes you want to do something?
You want to do something because it gives you some kind of fun, pleasure, or something. Like you said, you cut off your arm to prove someone wrong, which gave you pleasure. Everything we do, we do because we like the result in some way, or thought we would like it.

  • 06.07.2004 8:39 PM PDT
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*sigh*
That makes me feel ashamed of my species. It's insulting to sentient life, to say the least. It's treason against it, to say the most. Personally, I think we should have stiffer punishment for that. What do you think?
Edit: Noise's comment, that is.

[Edited on 6/7/2004 8:42:55 PM]

  • 06.07.2004 8:41 PM PDT
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Posted by: forumrunner
*sigh*
That makes me feel ashamed of my species. It's insulting to sentient life, to say the least. It's treason against it, to say the most. Personally, I think we should have stiffer punishment for that. What do you think?



Me?

  • 06.07.2004 8:43 PM PDT
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Posted by: Canadian_MC
Posted by: ObbiQuiet
I choose my actions because I think I'll like the results. Is there a better standard? I'm curious now

There isn't a better standard. You choose whatever option that your mind judges best. It is impossible to choose something that you do not want to choose.

"Well, I don't WANT to get my arm cut," you may say as you slash your arm. "See? Getting my arm cut is not a desired end."

But it is.

Your mind balanced and chose to slash your arm because the idea of proving a point was more important then physical pain. You wanted to prove a point more then you wanted to not be in pain. You did choose the option you most wanted to do.

Now, the next question: What makes you want to do something?
You want to do something because it gives you some kind of fun, pleasure, or something. Like you said, you cut off your arm to prove someone wrong, which gave you pleasure. Everything we do, we do because we like the result in some way, or thought we would like it.


Yes. Is seeking pleasure a selfish act?

  • 06.07.2004 8:43 PM PDT
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Not necessarily, I could choose to give you $20000, I didn't do it for me, I did it because making you happy was what made me happy.

  • 06.07.2004 8:45 PM PDT
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Oh ok, well I think that they (child molesting priests) should be burried alive, with a water hose duct taped in their mouths. Then the other end hooked up to a faucet, with the water on a slow drip. Leave water running untill their stomaches explode. Could take hours.

  • 06.07.2004 8:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: Bring the Noise

And priests are raping children. I'd rather have monks do nothing than priests -blam!- children.


And priests are in 3rd world countries, working to make their lives better. Not everyone is a villain.

  • 06.07.2004 8:46 PM PDT
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Posted by: Bring the Noise
Oh ok, well I think that they (child molesting priests) should be burried alive, with a water hose duct taped in their mouths. Then the other end hooked up to a faucet, with the water on a slow drip. Leave water running untill their stomaches explode. Could take hours.
That is pretty harsh.

  • 06.07.2004 8:46 PM PDT
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Posted by: Canadian_MC
Not necessarily, I could choose to give you $20000, I didn't do it for me, I did it because making you happy was what made me happy.



So the end result is it made you happy, still not selfless.

  • 06.07.2004 8:47 PM PDT
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Posted by: Canadian_MC
Not necessarily, I could choose to give you $20000, I didn't do it for me, I did it because making you happy was what made me happy.


Yes, that is a selfish act.

You can only choose what you deem to be the best choice. You can only decide which is best by which is the most pleasurable. So, in choosing that, you chose the most pleasurable route. Your mind balanced the options and chose to give it to me, because it was the most pleasurable option (the BEST option, in other words).

It is a selfish act.


[Edited on 6/7/2004 8:51:34 PM]

  • 06.07.2004 8:49 PM PDT
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Posted by: ajenteks
Posted by: Bring the Noise

And priests are raping children. I'd rather have monks do nothing than priests -blam!- children.


And priests are in 3rd world countries, working to make their lives better. Not everyone is a villain.



Those are missionaries, however, you are right not everyone is. However again, I'd rather have all monks doing nothing, than some priests doing good, and some raping children.

  • 06.07.2004 8:49 PM PDT
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Posted by: Canadian_MC
Posted by: Bring the Noise
Oh ok, well I think that they (child molesting priests) should be burried alive, with a water hose duct taped in their mouths. Then the other end hooked up to a faucet, with the water on a slow drip. Leave water running untill their stomaches explode. Could take hours.
That is pretty harsh.



That is not harsh. That is light treatment for anybody who molests or rapes a child.

  • 06.07.2004 8:50 PM PDT
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For the record, I am against torture and revenge (“justice”).

  • 06.07.2004 8:52 PM PDT
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Posted by: ObbiQuiet
Posted by: Canadian_MC
Not necessarily, I could choose to give you $20000, I didn't do it for me, I did it because making you happy was what made me happy.


Yes, that is a selfish act.

You can only choose what you deem to be the best choice. You can only decide which is best by which is the most pleasurable. So, in choosing that, you chose the most pleasurable rout. Your mind balanced the options and chose to give it to me, because it was the most pleasurable option (the BEST option, in other words).

It is a selfish act.
Well from what I get, it is impossible to not be selfish, everything we do, we do because in our minds it is the best choice, so we do it to make ourselves happy. However, when doing that you can also making someone else happy, which, if that was your goal, is not selfish.

[Edited on 6/7/2004 8:54:15 PM]

  • 06.07.2004 8:52 PM PDT
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Posted by: ObbiQuiet
For the record, I am against torture and revenge (“justice”).



LoL. For the record I support mass castrating, and killing of child molesters. I don't believe in capitol punishment, however if I ever did, it would be for child molesters.

  • 06.07.2004 8:54 PM PDT
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Posted by: Bring the Noise
Posted by: ajenteks
Posted by: Bring the Noise

And priests are raping children. I'd rather have monks do nothing than priests -blam!- children.


And priests are in 3rd world countries, working to make their lives better. Not everyone is a villain.


Those are missionaries, however, you are right not everyone is. However again, I'd rather have all monks doing nothing, than some priests doing good, and some raping children.


In a perfect world, yes, nobody would do anything to harm somebody else. The world is far from perfect, though.

  • 06.07.2004 8:55 PM PDT
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Yes it is, because you chose the option that was most pleasurable – you chose the option to make others happy.

  • 06.07.2004 8:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: Canadian_MC
Posted by: ObbiQuiet
Posted by: Canadian_MC
Not necessarily, I could choose to give you $20000, I didn't do it for me, I did it because making you happy was what made me happy.


Yes, that is a selfish act.

You can only choose what you deem to be the best choice. You can only decide which is best by which is the most pleasurable. So, in choosing that, you chose the most pleasurable rout. Your mind balanced the options and chose to give it to me, because it was the most pleasurable option (the BEST option, in other words).

It is a selfish act.
Well from what I get, it is impossible to not be selfish, everything we do, we do because in our minds it is the best choice, so we do it to make ourselves happy. However, when doing that you can also making someone else happy, which, if that was your goal, is not selfish.



Right, but you want to make people happy because it makes you feel good to do so. There is no such thing as a selfless act.

  • 06.07.2004 8:57 PM PDT
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Exactly, selfish in my mind is doing something for self glory, that effects others in a negative way, if you are effecting someone in a positive way, and you enjoy it, I dont think that could be called selfish.

  • 06.07.2004 8:57 PM PDT
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Posted by: Bring the Noise
Posted by: ObbiQuiet
For the record, I am against torture and revenge (“justice”).



LoL. For the record I support mass castrating, and killing of child molesters. I don't believe in capitol punishment, however if I ever did, it would be for child molesters.


I think, that in molestation & -blam!- cases, the victim gets 15 min. in a locked room with their perpetrator(who is handcuffed) and with a weapon of choice, like a baseball bat. Whatever happens in that 15 min. is what happens.

  • 06.07.2004 8:57 PM PDT
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Eh. If you wanna torture a human, I suggest soaking it in water 'till it dissolves. Btw, that priest thing's what I was ashamed of.

  • 06.07.2004 9:01 PM PDT
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I guess that is fair.

  • 06.07.2004 9:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: ajenteks
Posted by: Bring the Noise
Posted by: ajenteks
Posted by: Bring the Noise

And priests are raping children. I'd rather have monks do nothing than priests -blam!- children.


And priests are in 3rd world countries, working to make their lives better. Not everyone is a villain.


Those are missionaries, however, you are right not everyone is. However again, I'd rather have all monks doing nothing, than some priests doing good, and some raping children.


In a perfect world, yes, nobody would do anything to harm somebody else. The world is far from perfect, though.




Correct, but you have a problem with Buddist monks doing nothing, but think Christianity is interesting. I am not talking about anything but this. You can knock all the monks and people who want to improve themselves, yet are interested in a group where a large number -blam!- children. It makes no sense.

  • 06.07.2004 9:03 PM PDT
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Posted by: ajenteks
Posted by: Bring the Noise
Posted by: ObbiQuiet
For the record, I am against torture and revenge (“justice”).



LoL. For the record I support mass castrating, and killing of child molesters. I don't believe in capitol punishment, however if I ever did, it would be for child molesters.


I think, that in molestation & -blam!- cases, the victim gets 15 min. in a locked room with their perpetrator(who is handcuffed) and with a weapon of choice, like a baseball bat. Whatever happens in that 15 min. is what happens.



Well now that is interesting. I've never heard of a monk raping a child, you think monks are crap. I've heard of thousands of priest raping children, yet christianity interests you. Odd.

  • 06.07.2004 9:04 PM PDT