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Subject: Vile Lobby Behavior... from 7th Column members
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I like some fun trash talk as much as the next girl. Playing up how good you are and how bad you’re going to disgrace your foes is all part of the game. And we all know that sometimes, that trash talking is downright vulgar and out of line. However, people will be people, and it happens.

HOWEVER… Seventh Column members are soused to be better than some of the absolutely horrid things I’ve had to listen to in the last few days. As a girl who actively plays Halo 3, I’m a rarity, I know. The last thing I expect is the kind of rude, downright harassment style garbage that has flooded the Lobby of late. It got so bad the other day that I just downright quit playing rather than listen to it.

Now, I can’t do anything but block average members. There are a lot of folks out there, and some of them are rude children. However, there is one fact in all of this that bothers me. The WORST offenders were members of the Seventh Column. Like me, they proudly display their icon, the mark of the Bungie loyal.

To me, that icon says that I am part of a very special community. It says that I love Bungie, the community, and everything that we stand for. It says I play fair, respectfully, and above all else, am an example of what makes the Bungie community the most amazing out there. That icon is a privilege, and it demands respect.

It should also come with a Code of Conduct.

I feel that it is shameful that Seventh Column members would behave in such a manner, making ALL of us look like potty-mouthed, juvenile, jerks. I have never been ashamed to display that icon until the other day, and I don’t EVER want to feel that way again. That’s not what this community is about.

I don’t know what I’m asking for. Perhaps a listing of vile offenders? And if a member gets reported so many times, they lose the right to bear the Seventh Column icon? I’m not sure what the answer is here. What I DO know is that this really upsets me, and we can’t just ignore the problem. We are the face of the Bungie community. We are classy and respectful players here to have fun and hang out with our friends. We cannot permit this kind of disgraceful behavior, not when it bears a symbol that means something.

I am proud to show my Bungie pride. I don’t want that to change, not because some people can’t clean up their act.

Thoughts?

  • 12.06.2007 5:57 AM PDT

Posted by: LIME31
I got his sarcasm...one person has to implement sarcasm and then you get a pile of terrorist chipmunks crashing your party, not fun at all..

Lol i personally have never felt the Seventh Column ever represented a higher level of maturity or self-control. We aren't mods, and although I don't trash talk at all and really don't like it - I don't see why those who display it should have to tone their behaviour down to show this affiliation. The symbol shouldn't mean any gained respect which means that those willing to display it can act the same way as those who don't IMO

  • 12.06.2007 6:29 AM PDT

Unfortunately, many people with that logo are no more a part of this community than those without it. They mrerly wanted something extra beside their name and found the instructions that allow them to do so.

  • 12.06.2007 6:33 AM PDT
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Then surly if they are reported, it would be a small thing to remove said icon? I just don't want a bunch of immature brats associated with those of us who DO believe that being a member of the Seven7h Column means something.

  • 12.06.2007 6:38 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Yes...but how many people's reports on a person does it take to have it removed? It obviously can't be one or a few because no one would have it because others would just "tattle" on others to have theirs removed. Plus, who is going to be the one to "police" it. The only person that's has that level of clearance and is on the website often is Achronos. Unfortunately he often times has more stuff on his agenda than most, and he spends most of his time working on doing upgrades to this here website.

As someone else mentioned, unfortunately to get the 7th Column symbol next to your GT, it doesn't depict any great deed or task. You clicked a few buttons. Half of the time I would imagine the people with the 7th Column icons only have them because people told them about the "linktacular" medal. Who knows for certain though. Unfortunately for you the icon might mean something, but chances are that sentiment is not shared by the vast majority of others who also have the icon.

~B.B.

  • 12.06.2007 7:37 AM PDT
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If they are getting that many reports they should be banned.

But I'd be very, very surprised if you actually were hearing a significant amount more smack talk from people with the logo. It's very probably just anecdotal - a pattern you perceive to be true, but actually isn't statistically significant. I certainly haven't noticed it. /:

  • 12.06.2007 7:50 AM PDT

It's a requirement (or at least a recommendation) for many Clans I've seen. It shows they're a b.net user, not necessarily a b.net community member. Saint's right, you probably just notice these people because they have the 7th Column next to their name. I've never noticed a trend and I often get as much trash talk from those without the symbol as those with.

  • 12.06.2007 7:59 AM PDT

Were it so easy.

Posted by: Ravenfire 117
I like some fun trash talk as much as the next girl. Playing up how good you are and how bad you’re going to disgrace your foes is all part of the game. And we all know that sometimes, that trash talking is downright vulgar and out of line. However, people will be people, and it happens.

HOWEVER… Seventh Column members are soused to be better than some of the absolutely horrid things I’ve had to listen to in the last few days. As a girl who actively plays Halo 3, I’m a rarity, I know. The last thing I expect is the kind of rude, downright harassment style garbage that has flooded the Lobby of late. It got so bad the other day that I just downright quit playing rather than listen to it.

Now, I can’t do anything but block average members. There are a lot of folks out there, and some of them are rude children. However, there is one fact in all of this that bothers me. The WORST offenders were members of the Seventh Column. Like me, they proudly display their icon, the mark of the Bungie loyal.

To me, that icon says that I am part of a very special community. It says that I love Bungie, the community, and everything that we stand for. It says I play fair, respectfully, and above all else, am an example of what makes the Bungie community the most amazing out there. That icon is a privilege, and it demands respect.

It should also come with a Code of Conduct.

I feel that it is shameful that Seventh Column members would behave in such a manner, making ALL of us look like potty-mouthed, juvenile, jerks. I have never been ashamed to display that icon until the other day, and I don’t EVER want to feel that way again. That’s not what this community is about.

I don’t know what I’m asking for. Perhaps a listing of vile offenders? And if a member gets reported so many times, they lose the right to bear the Seventh Column icon? I’m not sure what the answer is here. What I DO know is that this really upsets me, and we can’t just ignore the problem. We are the face of the Bungie community. We are classy and respectful players here to have fun and hang out with our friends. We cannot permit this kind of disgraceful behavior, not when it bears a symbol that means something.

I am proud to show my Bungie pride. I don’t want that to change, not because some people can’t clean up their act.

Thoughts?
I agree with Raven,the trash talk goes way to far and is often a lot tougher on those of the female persuasion, I think all players should hold themselves to a higher code of conduct in general (allthough I am most likely in the minority). I dont understand why players in a pregame lobby, before even knowing any thing about a person, wants to start calling names and acting like a child. I rarely trash talk and usually only to those that call me out by name. However I understand this kind of thing would be hard to police. So even though i hate to be associated with that kind of player I will wear my column and keep my mouth shut.( oh and keep muting and submitting reviews on those that step out of line )

  • 12.06.2007 8:18 AM PDT

Tis the season

  • 12.06.2007 8:21 AM PDT

Posted by: WolfmanMaverick
You people have just sent my sides into orbit. A bunch of MLG try hards sucking the dick of some supposed pro half the thread hasn't even heard of. Classic.

It is more of an XBL problem and not a Bungie one. The feedback and mute systems are the only things that you can do to help stem the tide. I for one mute the truly annoying people. As for trash talkers I just give them more than what they give me. Actually I am pretty sure last night I gave just a bit too much. Some people would have just taken it just to the cliff edge. I went over the cliff edge on a rocket powered tricycle.

Taking away something like that really wouldn't do much good. Most of those people really have no clue as to what the 7th Column even is. They just wanted the symbol beside there names.

  • 12.06.2007 8:26 AM PDT

Were it so easy.

I also believe that excessive trash talk can push new players away and that in no way extends the life of our favorite game. New players are not nubs they just haven't played as much or they may never be as good as you, be proud of it and act accordingly shoving it in their face may mean you never get to own them again. Remember a small man has to diminish others to improve his sense of self worth.

  • 12.06.2007 8:26 AM PDT
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I understand that trash talk is here to stay, and just a part of the game. It's not a Halo thing, it's a people thing. I have NO delusions that people will grow up and behave like more than base primates. I also don't think that 7th column users talk trash more, or more harshly, than anyone else.

My issue is that there are Seventh Column users who are SO raunchy and offencive. Whether they know what the icon means or not, it stands as a symbol of the Bungie community. I simply think that people with the icon should be held to a slightly higher standard. If you wanna be a trashy punk, by all means do so. But don't drag the fine fans of the Seventh Column down into the filth with you.

*sigh* I don't know... maybe I'm just being overly sensitive. I just... Being a part of this community means something to me. That Icon is more than a little graphic that stands out in the lobby. It makes me sad to think anyone might judge the quality and character of the Bungie community as a whole based on those who are classless.

  • 12.06.2007 8:45 AM PDT

Any one who registers on Bungie.net can put that symbol next to their name.
Now, tell me, how many people do you see posting in this forum, as opposed to say, the H3 forum? You see plenty more, and they're plenty more obnoxious, rude, insulting, etc. and they have access to putting that symbol next to their name, even when they have no affiliation or knowledge of what the 7th Column is.

Does this quell the issue?

  • 12.06.2007 8:50 AM PDT
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Talk to the Soul | ~B.B. | Know Your Duardo |  | Hero | ISFJ | 77135 | 94371

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me."

A lot of people created accounts solely for that symbol. They've never posted, and most likely never will.

  • 12.06.2007 9:14 AM PDT

This is like the thousands of kids who ran out and created gamertags with KSI in the name, even though they had nothing to do with the clan. Just because you see the 7th column symbol, doesn't mean these idiots are associated with the 7th column.

  • 12.06.2007 9:40 AM PDT

Hi I'm RT and I like to argue!

Posted by: Achilles1108
...As for trash talkers I just give them more than what they give me. Actually I am pretty sure last night I gave just a bit too much. Some people would have just taken it just to the cliff edge. I went over the cliff edge on a rocket powered tricycle.

Haha, good imagery. Nice to know we're all human, even ninjas. Did you make someone cry? Because that would be going over the edge.

  • 12.06.2007 9:53 AM PDT

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Posted by: atomic weggie
This is like the thousands of kids who ran out and created gamertags with KSI in the name, even though they had nothing to do with the clan. Just because you see the 7th column symbol, doesn't mean these idiots are associated with the 7th column.

>_>
Weggie, I've heard your foul mouth in the lobby. Are you sure you two didn't bump into each other once?

Then we could bring up this occurrence.

Sadly, being part of the Bungie community doesn't mean you have to be polite off the forums. (And apparently even while you're on the forums, in many cases.)

P.S. Achilles has made me cry. :'(

[Edited on 12.06.2007 9:56 AM PST]

  • 12.06.2007 9:56 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Unfortunately, giving something away for free directly enables whoever, regardless of their behavior and intentions, to use it how they please. I never trust anyone with the symbol to have an expectedly better behavior or attitude.

I've only had many Bungie.net members on the Friends List as of late. I simply started with a handful of people that I knew where good people, and meeting others through them, I discovered more of them, as well as others that I definately do not consider friends and do not enjoy playing with.

It's not your fault, however, that many of these people that we come across (Seventh Columnists or not) to be intolerable. My best advice is to keep your mic off and beat them as quickly as possible (the Voice and Comm. option of Party and teammates only is good for this). Though I am embarrased at how they represent our community.

  • 12.06.2007 10:00 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: Achilles1108
I went over the cliff edge on a rocket powered tricycle.


Hah, that reminds me of a particular individual who went in to the most vivid and creative insults I've ever heard (by "vivid" "creative" I mean "mundane" and "over-used", of course) simply because I wasn't playing during the first ten seconds of a game. Haha, boy that was a good laugh.

Of course, always remember that people can't hear your insults when a game is PTT and you don't acknowledge this.

  • 12.06.2007 10:03 AM PDT

Posted by: SS_Zag1
Posted by: atomic weggie
This is like the thousands of kids who ran out and created gamertags with KSI in the name, even though they had nothing to do with the clan. Just because you see the 7th column symbol, doesn't mean these idiots are associated with the 7th column.

>_>
Weggie, I've heard your foul mouth in the lobby. Are you sure you two didn't bump into each other once?


How can you hear my foul mouth Zag, when you won't let anyone get a word in edgewise? You're like the Micro Machines Guy.

  • 12.06.2007 10:09 AM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Posted by: atomic weggie
How can you hear my foul mouth Zag, when you won't let anyone get a word in edgewise? You're like the Micro Machines Guy.

... But the trunks really open and close!

  • 12.06.2007 10:11 AM PDT

I WIN.

I've also heard a lot of trash talk from 7th column tagged peeps. Usually when I see them I look forward to a good game, or some friendly talk, but recently it's been exactly opposite.

  • 12.06.2007 11:16 AM PDT
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Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

I agree with many of the above statements, but wanted to add a few things that have not yet been said.

Sadly, Raven, the behavior on XBox Live is rarely much different than that which can be found in the Halo 3 Forum. There, you can find that some people are polite and respectful, others are foul-mouthed and obnoxious, and the majority are somewhere on the very long, very broad spectrum in between. All of these people are part of the Bungie.net Community and part of the Bungie Community in general.

As has already been noted above, many of the XBL players who have the Septagon symbol next to their names bear little to no connection to the Bungie.net Community or the 7th Column. I feel bad calling people out, but take, for example, this person, whose sole, singular post on Bungie.net has been a question about how to get the 7th Column logo next to his name in Halo 3.

Clearly, I can't speak to whether this guy is a trash talker or not -- I assume that like most people, he's probably a polite and respectful player. He has a 5-star reputation on his gamercard so I can assume nothing else. But he is indisputably a person who does not participate in the BNet Community and yet has the Septagon logo next to his name. If respectful and polite individuals like this guy can do it, so can anybody else. Thus, all we can infer from the Septagon logo is that the person displaying it is a Bungie fan. Nothing more. Bungie fans can be polite, rude, talkative, quiet, or any other variety of things that have no effect on whether or not they enjoy playing Bungie's video games.

You noted that "Seventh Column members are supposed to be better than some of the absolutely horrid things I’ve had to listen to in the last few days. . . . To me, that icon says that I am part of a very special community. It says that I love Bungie, the community, and everything that we stand for. It says I play fair, respectfully, and above all else, am an example of what makes the Bungie community the most amazing out there. That icon is a privilege, and it demands respect."

I'm not sure where you got this rather idealistic impression. You certainly did not get it here on these forums, unless you have been miraculously lucky in the particular threads you choose to visit. Frankly, I would love to see the Community act in the way that you suggest they should be acting. I've posted in this Forum several times about ways to improve what I call the "forum culture" in places like the Halo 3 Forum, in order to make respectful, intelligent discussion the norm instead of the anomaly. Sadly, however, the current state of affairs is far from ideal and many Community members are not respectful, do not play fair, are not an example of what makes the Bungie Community great. Some Community members are downright mutinous in this respect.

Allow me to go off on a very slight background tangent before coming back to the point. We humans, like most animals, deal with the constant sensory overload of being alive by stereotyping and allowing our unconscious or semiconscious minds decide what merits attention. As a simple example, when walking down hallway of a building, you do not tend to think about whether the floor will collapse under your feet. The floor ahead of you looks like the floor behind you, and thus you "stereotype" it into being solid footing. This basic process is natural to us, and thus we apply it not only to the day-to-day world around us, but also to groups of people. Sometimes, it's fine -- you see a group of teenagers wearing backpacks and you assume that they are on their way to school; you see a guy and a girl with a kid and you assume that they are a family; and so on. Sometimes you might be wrong, but for the most part, your assumption is often-if-not-usually right. Obviously, there are stereotyping situations that are not so good either -- assumptions about people's personalities, skills, intelligence, abilities, or tendencies based on race, color, religion, gender, and so on. I am definitely not trying to start a discussion about stereotyping -- merely trying to prove to you that, whether benign or malicious, it happens and we can't (and probably shouldn't try to) do anything about it.

So to get back to the point, my opinion is that, like any Community you choose to join, you have to take the good and the bad when you choose to identify yourself with Bungie. If, in the real world, I go to a foreign country and tell people that I am American, I am forced to deal with all of the connotations -- negative and positive -- that implies. If I tell people that I am an attorney, I am likewise forced to deal with all of the impressions that people have of lawyers -- some positive and some quite negative.

It is no different when identifying yourself with the Bungie Community. If you say that you're a Bungie fan, or a Halo 3 fan, then you thus subject yourself to all of the impressions that others have of the Bungie Community. As you mentioned, it would be ideal if the Bungie Community was perceived as being, on the whole, upstanding, respectful people. But I don't think that it is. I personally see the Community as being filled with an extremely wide variety of people from every country, age, gender, race, walk of life, and, especially personality. Sure, there are tendencies towards certain sectors in each of those categories, but except for the category of "hobbies," (for which, to be a member here, you are almost required to list "video games"), there is certainly nothing exclusive about any of those categories. This obviously, means that you will get a wide variety of people entering and participating in the Bungie Community.

Now, if we are talking about improving the Bungie culture, that is something entirely different. That is a project that will take, if not "a lot" of effort, at least "some" effort and is certainly not yet complete. As you have so adequately learned and pointed out here in this thread, our mere statement that a community is something (respectful, disrespectful, nice, mean, whatever) does not necessarily make it so.

I will not make this post any longer than it already is by giving a detailed description of why I disagree with your idea of removing the Septagon logo for impolite or rude trash-talkers. I disagree with the idea for the reasons that other people have described in more detail above me. I also disagree, for those same reasons, with implementing a "Code of Conduct" in order to display the logo.

Conclusion/Short Summary for Those Who Routinely Skip to the Bottom of My Walls of Text

Displaying the Septagon logo means absolutely nothing more than that you are a fan of Bungie. Attempting to make it mean anything more (such as that you are respectful or polite) would involve changing the entire meaning of having the logo next to your name. Therefore, although I feel for you and your situation, I must respectfully disagree with your idea.

[Edited on 12.06.2007 11:29 AM PST]

  • 12.06.2007 11:26 AM PDT

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Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

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Posted by: jmethod
I've also heard a lot of trash talk from 7th column tagged peeps. Usually when I see them I look forward to a good game, or some friendly talk, but recently it's been exactly opposite.

Do you really think there's a correlation though? I've seen plenty of jerks from both sides of the court.

Maybe if only certain people were eligible for the symbol? Or rather, maybe if some people were excluded because of certain XBL related behavior?

  • 12.06.2007 11:43 AM PDT

Posted by: x Foman123 x
Displaying the Septagon logo means absolutely nothing more than that you are a fan of Bungie.


Doesn't even necessarily mean that, people could just like the symbol.

  • 12.06.2007 11:45 AM PDT

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