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  • Subject: Another update, another...
Subject: Another update, another...
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Posted by: cApAc_aMaRu
... which of course cannot be discussed in the Halo forum, because it is irrelevant. Apparently.

It's fine to use sarcasm when you have a point, but you don't have one in this situation. Discussion about the Halo 3 forum doesn't belong in the Halo 3 forum, and that's not open to any interpretation. The Community forum is the right forum.

-TGP-

  • 12.08.2007 6:03 AM PDT
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Posted by: Great_Pretender
Posted by: cApAc_aMaRu
... which of course cannot be discussed in the Halo forum, because it is irrelevant. Apparently.

It's fine to use sarcasm when you have a point, but you don't have one in this situation. Discussion about the Halo 3 forum doesn't belong in the Halo 3 forum, and that's not open to any interpretation. The Community forum is the right forum.

-TGP-


How is a Community Forum representative of a community of whom the vast majority ignore said Community Forum?

  • 12.08.2007 6:11 AM PDT
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Reading is hard, but keep trying, and you'll get it eventually.

  • 12.08.2007 6:32 AM PDT
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Posted by: cApAc_aMaRu
How is a Community Forum representative of a community of whom the vast majority ignore said Community Forum?

It's safe to say that the vast majority of the people ignoring the community forum would probably ignore this post if it were in the Halo 3 forum (or they would, at least, not contribute to it in any positive way).

Are you implying that everyone who posts on the Bioware forums pays the same amount of attention to the website forum as they do to the game forum? No, obviously not, especially with 271,696 posts in one of the Mass Effect forums and 10,897 in their "community forum" equivalent.

Stop trying to sound smart. You're not doing a very good job of it.
-TGP-

[Edited on 12.08.2007 6:40 AM PST]

  • 12.08.2007 6:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: Great_Pretender
Posted by: cApAc_aMaRu
How is a Community Forum representative of a community of whom the vast majority ignore said Community Forum?

It's safe to say that the vast majority of the people ignoring the community forum would probably ignore this post if it were in the Halo 3 forum (or they would, at least, not contribute to it in any positive way).

Are you implying that everyone who posts on the Bioware forums pays the same amount of attention to the website forum as they do to the game forum? No, obviously not, especially with 271,696 posts in one of the Mass Effect forums and 10,897 in their "community forum" equivalent.

Stop trying to sound smart. You're not doing a very good job of it.
-TGP-


Did I say that anyone else's Community forum was a better representation?

  • 12.08.2007 6:43 AM PDT
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Posted by: cApAc_aMaRu
Did I say that anyone else's Community forum was a better representation?

Obviously not; that's why I phrased it as a question.

-TGP-

  • 12.08.2007 6:50 AM PDT

Halo3Planet, the place for all things Halo 3..

Need help finding skulls, make sure to go here.

I like how the forums work here. The moderators do need to be really strict, due to the amount of repetitive posts and the sort. It's a shame that threads dealing with religion must be locked, but that's how it is. There are far too many immature posters, so the few must be punished by the many. Also, that topic has been discussed so many times, and I don't really think it needs discussing anymore.

Quite frankly, if you like the Bioware forums better, I don't see why you wouldn't just leave these forums. You have said yourself you don't like this one anymore.

  • 12.08.2007 7:00 AM PDT
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Brown chicken Brown cow!

I like the fact the vast majority of Halo 3 forum users ignore the community forum. Mostly because they are only here because of Halo 3 and will dissapear in about 10 months.

The Real community use this forum :-)

  • 12.08.2007 8:26 AM PDT

Posted by: WolfmanMaverick
You people have just sent my sides into orbit. A bunch of MLG try hards sucking the dick of some supposed pro half the thread hasn't even heard of. Classic.

Posted by: mitch82cc
Posted by: cApAc_aMaRu
There is only one thing I really want changed, when it comes down to it.

I want Bungie to use their weekly updates to tell us what they are doing about problems, instead of trying to sell new product. As far as moderators go, I have had at least one thread closed for no good reason by a moderator who had a good laugh with his final post, in the arrogant comfort of knowing I was left unable to publicly reply. The fact is I have virtually given up on this forum, because I no longer find it to be relevant.


The only problem with giving us constant updates on the progress is.....

All the stupids here will flip out if they imply, state, or promise something that doesn't actually work out for one reason or another. If they say that X problem is going to be fixed by X date in a certain way, and it doesn't happen, the world will tilt off its axis for some people. I agree with you completely and wish they would give us running updates, but unfortunately immature whiners ruin that for the rest of us.

The man has hit the nail on the head. Bungie has to be very careful with every little thing they say or do. I mean look at the custom games search which was briefly stated in an interview way back. Well it did not make the cut and many people freaked out. So much so that they decided to come to the forums and repeatedly make threads demanding to know why it was not in the game. Well Tom comes to the forums and says why and low and behold much of the masses still do not believe him and continue to gripe away. Now with that level of scrutiny and possible outcome do you see why they try not to say too much when it comes to announcements. Because anything they say gets ripped apart and misconstrued. I would keep quite and walk on eggshells as well if I were them.

  • 12.08.2007 8:28 AM PDT

Mass Effect (and RPG's as a whole for that matter) bring in a more mature audience, that's why Bioware's forum is not as juvenile as B.net. It has nothing to do with how the site is run or moderated.

Go visit Nintendo's SuperSmash Bro.'s forum and see how mature it is. The game dictates it's forum audience, not the other way around.

  • 12.08.2007 9:03 AM PDT
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Bungie listens to its fans! ^.^ | Ninja .II./ You
RCG: In ur base, steelin' ur flagz. | Watch the demo, then join the carnage!

The userbase here is huge. I agree with your points about Bungie people posting, but they actually do post quite regularly - Optimatch has had a couple of good threads from ferrex, for instance.

In addition, you can get in contact with Bungie employees, and they actually do listen to problems or criticisms. I found a few ways out of maps, looked up an employee, added him on MSN and asked him about them. Turns out they know about most of them, so I asked him a few questions about the broken Custom Games options. The answers were hugely unsatisfactory but he gave me answers! You simply can't give answers or address problems on the forums, because any admission of error would lead to a 'riot'.

One final thing, for a few people in this thread (you probably don't know who you are, but I won't elaborate):

There = that place; "Look over there!"
Their = that person's property; "It's their own fault" or "That's their car"
They're = they are; "They're trying as hard as they can" or "It's not like they're doing it on purpose"
Your = belonging to you; "It's your fault" or "That's your car"
You're = you are; "You're not trying hard enough!" or "it's not like you're writing a book"
Its = belonging to it (yes, this is correct, no apostrophe); "The best thing about Halo is its multiplayer"
It's = it is; "It's not a problem" or "Look, it's Frankie!"

[Edited on 12.08.2007 10:12 AM PST]

  • 12.08.2007 10:10 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: cApAc_aMaRu
Reading is hard, but keep trying, and you'll get it eventually.


Says the man who dislikes Bungie.net boards because they aren't friendly.

  • 12.08.2007 10:38 AM PDT
Subject: Another shallow complaint, another...
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The interesting thing about this thread is the progression of your arguments cApAc_aMaRu. I see a distinct deterioration and reversal in your key points. Now we’ll just start of by saying that I’m fine with constructive criticism. We’ve had threads like this before too, yet you seem not to realize. Perhaps if you are to criticize a community you ought to know a thing or two about it first. And that’s what you end up attacking; us. The complete U-bend in your topic shows to me a server lack of clarity and substance in any of the claims you have made.
Posted by: cApAc_aMaRu
But of course no one here cares...

I think you’ll be hard pressed to find a community that cares more than this one. On one side we have long term community people who spend hours trying to contribute and improve what we have. On the other hand we throngs of stubborn Halo fan boys who posts about aimlessly, shooting down anything they spot that goes against their ways. That second class might care for the wrong reasons but it still renders your post bluntly inaccurate.
And since so many are immature, why do you think them reasonable enough to talk about such sensitive topics as religion? I made a thread called ‘Frankie is a girl’ once in the public forums. No repercussions. When you start talking about moral beliefs Bungie provide you the space to do that, but in such a way it does not viciously clash in the public forum and cause upset and another flame war. Join a group, cApAc_aMaRu. We don’t care what you talk about, we just care about how easily it could offend. Does that seem unreasonable? With the scale, individuality and entirely unique structure of this great website, we’re practically living in a political environment. That’s terse enough for me.

I just want to pull to the side for a moment and quote this:
Posted by: cApAc_aMaRu
Posted by: SuperStormNinja
So your saying 'Halo suck, Mass effect rocks' ?

If so then why are you on the Halo forums?


Please refer to the above example of unintelligent conversation. This person didn't bother to read properly before he replied. He completely misses the point. Any criticism of anything about Halo 3 gets this typical, inane response.


For a start, if you are so tired of the Halo forums then I think it’s perfectly reasonable to just pack up and leave.
What did you think when you made this thread? Did you think it would lead anywhere? Has it? Does your contribution to the community rest within this? And yet another quote, this one from myself rounding up what I’m trying to say:
I think the worst thing happening to the community is people making neglecting threads, and taking on a tone that bears some similarities to a morbid depression era of sorts, instead of just being a part of what's going on, remedying any slowness we might have. It frustrates me to see people fretting about nothing, when really they're the source of any problems.
Will the community fall apart? No? A thousand committed people don't disappear overnight. They haven't for the last sixteen years. Will we get crap on the forums? Yes. New users (most of whom are incredibly stubborn) + More that one forum = Posting in the wrong places, arguments over a pixel of inaccuracy with a gun.
It's all a rush right now, but it will calm down. Really, the damage that is being done is only superficial, so I doubt Bungie will do anything, since short of shutting down whole site there’s nothing to be achieved.
And no, I'm not attacking this thread. This seems pretty constructive to me, but some of the other stuff recently has been warring me down.


This thread is exactly what I am referring to.

Posted by: cApAc_aMaRu
Reading is hard, but keep trying, and you'll get it eventually.


Reading through this thread I witnessed the decline in your arguments, now relying upon sarcasm and meaningless retorts. It's sad that within a situation you yourself have created, the substance ran dry before long. What does that suggest? A spur of the moment consideration and lack of forward planning. Do you regret making this thread now? I would have thought you do. Come back to us when you have something of substance to share.

And pertaining to your above quote, I don’t know… but maybe you do find reading hard.
Posted by: cApAc_aMaRu
Posted by: Zeo Sly Spartan
You insult us by calling us donkeys so you probably deserve all the inane responses that you are going to get.

So here I go.

"You dumb , you supa dupa dumb, you go die in hole and die!"

; D


I'd say my estimate of the average forum poster intelligence was accurate. Care to lift the average a little with a proper post?


My reading skills testify to support two conclusions I draw from this quote.
1. You are unable to recognize the intentional irony within Zeo’s post, since he is outlining the stereotype you seem to be formatting as your argument beings to sway.
2. You swallowed up that stereotype suggesting a clear lack of clarity in what you are defining, perhaps because it is, for the most part, imaginary? Infatuated and sprung within you own mind.
Perhaps you should focus on reading better and stop allowing your prejudices to fail you. In a forum composed mostly of HTML, it’s recommendable.

There is not a single point you’ve raised that has not been answered reasonably at some point through this thread. You started blaming the developers for not informing their fans properly or allowing them to post certain things in particular places, but now you are blaming the developers for their fans not being considerate enough to know this is the forum to post in. Hhmm, that's a little bit ironic to me, and lacking in logic. There's a tale of a man two came to a village selling both a sword that could penetrate anything, and a shield that could not be broken. You just reminded me of it.

  • 12.08.2007 10:58 AM PDT
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Wow, I'm surprised anyone on the community forum actually replied. My last thread on here, about a addition to the forums that, once understood, was enthusiastically received, was forgotten quite quickly.

As far as those of you going on about me, well, I think it is safe to say that it can be agreed upon that Bungie and its fan base are broken, when it comes to interaction?

Bungie shot up from a small Mac developer with a hardcore fanbase, to the 'biggest media event in history' in a relatively short period of time, and it seems to me like they are still behaving like a company with a small dedicated fan base. Just look at the Halo3 launch. Bungie had an ARG, with FAR too many people all clamouring 'ME ME ME!' on the forum. All the mass market interest campaign was obviously driven by M$ i.e. Burger King, Mountain Dew, the diorama and ad campaign. I do NOT think Bungie has kept up with it's growing user base.

From what I have seen of the forum, which is a fair bit, the majority of posters do not understand the story of the game. On the rare occasion that there IS a story related thread on the forums (which isn't often), it is virtually impossible to actually discuss, because people who 'play the game for the gameplay, not the story' insist on presenting their 'interpretation'. The forum is populated with the same 20 useless threads ad nauseum. Is it so wrong of me to want the actual game forum to talk about the actual game? Why hasn't the forum been split into different categories? Why are single and multiplayer still one forum? The majority of repeated threads are multiplayer issues.

Ciaran...

The way to keep the uneducated masses safe is to keep them ignorant, huh? Bubblewrap them to keep them safe from themselves? If just 1/10 of them read a thread on religious influences in Halo, whether it was flamed my the ignorant or not, and decided to look up a religion they don't know much about on wikipedia, do you think this world would be better, or worse, for wear?

As for my short answers, it was very late, and I don't care if you think my one line retorts to people who were posting nothing of consequence in my thread weren't 'good arguments', thats not what they were supposed to be.

My arguments have not been answered reasonably, they have been excused. Everyone who has disagreed with me has given excuses for Bungie and the community. Shouldn't we be working to fix things instead of saying 'thats the way it is, if you don't like it go somewhere else'?

  • 12.09.2007 6:58 PM PDT
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Mourne not your comrades who must dwell / too strong to strive -
Within each steel-bound coffin of a cell, / Buried alive;
But rather mourne the apathetic throng / The cowed, and the meek -
Who see the world’s great anguish and its wrong / And dare not speak.

[group]167741|Diner|Where's the food?[/group]

What, exactly, is your point? First you talk about Bungie not talking to its fans enough, and you talk about religion being banned on the forums. Now you talk about Bungie acting like it's small and that it's not keeping up with it's fanbase. Oh, and religion. That, at least, seems to be constant. That's easiest, so I'll hit that first.

Religious topics turn into fights and flame matches. Always. You cannot have a religious dicussion amongst different minded people and have it stay entirely civil, not on the internet. Since religion never ends well, it's not allowed to start. Unfortunately this means that in depth discussion about Halo's religious influences is not allowed either. That's not going to change, and trying to change Achronos's mind on the matter is a waster of time.

Now, what is your real point? You mention all these little things, but you have yet to pull them together into some form of debatable content. So, if you really do want to discuss this, why don't you take a second to gather your thoughts into a unified idea, and present it to us?

  • 12.09.2007 8:24 PM PDT
Subject: Another update, another...

The bible is the best book Ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM A PROUD CHRISTIAN. HALO IS AWESOME BUT GOD IS MUCH BETTER!!!!!!!!
Did you knew that JESUSdied for you?

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  • 12.09.2007 8:27 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

I find it strange how so many people here can spout insults at this guy. He gave criticism, as a fan, of what he feels is a better way to take the community. I have to say I agree with him, although it might just be too late for b.net to take that route. This guy comes in here and gives his honest opinion, and all you guys have to say is "Well that sucks, deal with it."

Is that the way you want to represent the bungie community? At least take criticism like you care.

  • 12.09.2007 8:40 PM PDT

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Posted by: cApAc_aMaRu

I recently bought, and played through Mass Effect, and you wouldn't believe the breath of fresh air it is to join a forum where you don't get blacklisted for debating touchy subjects, and actual GAME DEVELOPERS answer once in a while to both criticism, and praise. I feel like Bioware actually cares about their players. When I log on to the Bungie forums, I feel like I'm in a packed stadium of people yelling incoherently at each other with random people kicked out seemingly at random by others whose chests swell from the illusion of control over their fellow man that they have been granted.


I like how you point out how you think Bioware actually cares about it's consumers while implying that Bungie does not. This seems a little biased and needs some clarification.

1. The bungie favourites is made up of entirely fan created maps and game types.
2. Many in the Bungie community, more favorably, the halo community, wished to have a form of team hardcore from Halo 2 put into Halo 3. This was done.
3. The fans asked for new maps to play on. Three new maps are released VIA XBL marketplace withing the next 48 hours.
4. Bungie has created the Optimatch forum for fans to voice there opinions in a critical analysis form so as to help improve matchmaking.


So, while you can say that you believe that Bioware listens to it's fans, you can not say, and backup with facts, that bungie does not listen to it's fans at all.

[Edited on 12.09.2007 8:43 PM PST]

  • 12.09.2007 8:41 PM PDT
Subject: Another shallow complaint, another...

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Posted by: cApAc_aMaRu
Wow, I'm surprised anyone on the community forum actually replied. My last thread on here, about a addition to the forums that, once understood, was enthusiastically received, was forgotten quite quickly.

I already read your post where you spewed crap across the forum, then forgot about it. Fortunately for your ego, someone replied again.

As far as those of you going on about me, well, I think it is safe to say that it can be agreed upon that Bungie and its fan base are broken, when it comes to interaction?

Broken? No. We (the fanbase) do TONS of interaction amongst ourselves and with the developers. I play with one of the developers on Live at least once every few months. (Of course, they're busy guys, and they've been playing various versions of Halo 3 for the past so many years.) I've held thorough discussions about Halo 3's negatives and positives with employees, and they're not hiding anything. They know what people are complaining about.

Bungie shot up from a small Mac developer with a hardcore fanbase, to the 'biggest media event in history' in a relatively short period of time, and it seems to me like they are still behaving like a company with a small dedicated fan base. Just look at the Halo3 launch. Bungie had an ARG, with FAR too many people all clamouring 'ME ME ME!' on the forum. All the mass market interest campaign was obviously driven by M$ i.e. Burger King, Mountain Dew, the diorama and ad campaign. I do NOT think Bungie has kept up with it's growing user base.

You mean Bungie is still being very personal with their fanbase!? How dare they try and actually be your friend! I can't imagine anything worse!

From what I have seen of the forum, which is a fair bit, the majority of posters do not understand the story of the game.

Most people do. I'm not sure why this is bad, by the way. Bungie's stories are pretty complex. People always are left guessing and wondering, which causes for massive discussion. Theories are fun, Bungie knows it.
On the rare occasion that there IS a story related thread on the forums (which isn't often), it is virtually impossible to actually discuss, because people who 'play the game for the gameplay, not the story' insist on presenting their 'interpretation'. The forum is populated with the same 20 useless threads ad nauseum. Is it so wrong of me to want the actual game forum to talk about the actual game? Why hasn't the forum been split into different categories? Why are single and multiplayer still one forum? The majority of repeated threads are multiplayer issues.
The way I see it, and the way you just presented it, there's no NEED to split the forums into two categories, since Singleplayer threads are few and far between. I've seen plenty of singleplayer/story discussions go find. Don't be silly. If someone is ruining the purpose of a thread, report it.

My arguments have not been answered reasonably, they have been excused. Everyone who has disagreed with me has given excuses for Bungie and the community. Shouldn't we be working to fix things instead of saying 'thats the way it is, if you don't like it go somewhere else'?

Translation: Everyone disagrees, therefore they're idiots and not up to my intellectual standing. No one understands me. I'm probably emo.

  • 12.09.2007 8:42 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Achilles1108
The man has hit the nail on the head. Bungie has to be very careful with every little thing they say or do. I mean look at the custom games search which was briefly stated in an interview way back. Well it did not make the cut and many people freaked out.

The custom games search had nothing to do with accidentally promising anything. Its the same thing that happened with Halo 2, they told us they had something going into the game and failed to mention they had cut it out.

People can deal with lost features, what they can't deal with is when the features promised to them suddenly vanish when the game is put into the console.

  • 12.09.2007 8:45 PM PDT
Subject: Another update, another...
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Posted by: Achilles1108
Posted by: mitch82cc
Posted by: cApAc_aMaRu
There is only one thing I really want changed, when it comes down to it.

I want Bungie to use their weekly updates to tell us what they are doing about problems, instead of trying to sell new product. As far as moderators go, I have had at least one thread closed for no good reason by a moderator who had a good laugh with his final post, in the arrogant comfort of knowing I was left unable to publicly reply. The fact is I have virtually given up on this forum, because I no longer find it to be relevant.


The only problem with giving us constant updates on the progress is.....

All the stupids here will flip out if they imply, state, or promise something that doesn't actually work out for one reason or another. If they say that X problem is going to be fixed by X date in a certain way, and it doesn't happen, the world will tilt off its axis for some people. I agree with you completely and wish they would give us running updates, but unfortunately immature whiners ruin that for the rest of us.

The man has hit the nail on the head. Bungie has to be very careful with every little thing they say or do. I mean look at the custom games search which was briefly stated in an interview way back. Well it did not make the cut and many people freaked out. So much so that they decided to come to the forums and repeatedly make threads demanding to know why it was not in the game. Well Tom comes to the forums and says why and low and behold much of the masses still do not believe him and continue to gripe away. Now with that level of scrutiny and possible outcome do you see why they try not to say too much when it comes to announcements. Because anything they say gets ripped apart and misconstrued. I would keep quite and walk on eggshells as well if I were them.
If i were god. I would smite all of the winners and anything "bad related" in forum. I can't stand it. People will attack anything they can get their hands on. Don't they even realize that Bungie employees are human beings? They like us make mistakes to. They are not perfect. No one is.

[Edited on 12.09.2007 9:30 PM PST]

  • 12.09.2007 9:29 PM PDT
Subject: Another shallow complaint, another...
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: cApAc_aMaRu
As for my short answers, it was very late, and I don't care if you think my one line retorts to people who were posting nothing of consequence in my thread weren't 'good arguments', thats not what they were supposed to be.

My arguments have not been answered reasonably, they have been excused.
Lol. If you make poor arguments, don't expect an answer. Moreover, if you find yourself unable to carry a point, you should not expect people to read your mind.

While I'm thinking about it, what, exactly, is your point? You say that Bungie has lost touch with its fan base, and your support for this statement is nothing more than that you perceive some players to not be as in-touch with the storyline as you'd like and the fact that you didn't like the selfishness displayed during the ARG. How perplexing that you cite the actions of the Community and cite none of the actions of Bungie as support for your assertion. And how contradictory and confusing that you purport to quote the history of Bungie to us as if you know, and yet seem to be completely unaware that the Iris ARG was run entirely by Microsoft, with Bungie supplying nothing but creative content. Even if the ARG had been run by Bungie, you don't ever really reach a point where I could say that it's reasonable to draw any kind of conclusion from what you say.

I do not intend to flame you when I say this, I merely want to point out the truth. That truth is that you capac, are one of the several dozen cookie-cutter posters who come here with well-written insults of Bungie and the Bungie Community in general and anybody who responds in your thread specifically, haughtily assuming that by using clever syntactical tricks and avoiding the substance of any reply, you can disguise the fact that you are merely trolling to spark a reaction. Sadly, you are not original, nor are you brilliant, nor are you even bothering to be honest with yourself.

You know what? I'm tired of trolls, and I have watched this thread for almost two pages without responding, and I almost said nothing at all. I love responding to well-raised and logical points, but you have made none. You write eloquently, so please tell me that I'm not mistaken in assuming that you're able to if you really really try.

[Edited on 12.09.2007 10:56 PM PST]

  • 12.09.2007 10:05 PM PDT