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Subject: Letter to MAVAV.

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Poll: Action?  [closed]
Send it:  55%
(16 Votes)
Don't send it:  3%
(1 Votes)
Revise it and send:  7%
(2 Votes)
Don't bother sending.:  3%
(1 Votes)
Post in other Site Forums:  7%
(2 Votes)
Send it, because of principle.:  21%
(6 Votes)
Don't send, it will make it worse.:  3%
(1 Votes)
Total Votes: 29

I was searching through the Flood's archives and saw a thread about this site.

It was gut wrenching to see some of the things posted there, and I am contemplating sending a letter to them and circulating it to gaming related sites. Let me know what your opinions are on the matter, I have cut 2 comments from the thread I found it in, and the rest is my own. Here is the letter in it's entirety.

[color=white]To : http://www.mavav.org
I hope this letter finds you well.

My name is James Triche, I am 25 years old, married, and have a daughter who is 3, and another child is due in February. I live in New Jersey, and work at vehicle dealership. Also, I collect videogames and videogame memorabilia.

Your site concerns me gravely.

Regarding the site’s content, describing those people responding to their e-mail address as “feral young children” seems very elitist and inappropriate for an atmosphere of discussion. An attack on the character of the other side is never a fair and reasonable tactic, and just shows that the creators of this site are too close-minded to accept any other view points other that their own. Your "articles" section has been down, for well over a month, and doesn't help with your credibility.

I have yet to see any solid scientific proof that video games create or encourage violent behavior.

I have yet to find scientific proof that video games are addictive.

There are two types of addiction, physical and psychological. Video games cannot be physically addictive as there are no chemicals that enter your body when you play them. A psychological addiction is a sign of a deeper neurosis, generally caused by social environment. (Read this as upbringing and social education by the role leading figures in the life of the child)

If you wouldn't mind sending me some of your paraphernalia, I would like to understand just what gives you the audacity to take the blame of poor child rearing off the hands of the parents and place them on a non-personal entity like a video game company?
Simply put; I'd like a full understanding of how you can maintain a site dedicated to promoting the casting off of family values. If more of your time was spent actually being parents and monitoring what your children did, rather than making slanderous and ignorant websites, then the country would be a lot better off.

As a recent parent I understand the necessity of responsibility in showing my child right from wrong. Remember: Joe Lieberman's videogame witch-hunt was spawned by much the same thing. I.E. Parents who complain about the videogames that their children are playing. Well, I know my daughter isn't going to be able to afford videogames until she is at least 13 or 14, so who's buying these games?

If a parent isn't going to do more than take a cursory glance at the box, they don't deserve the responsibility of deciding what their children are exposed to. In this day and age child-raising is being delegated to the TV set. A parent that has no 'time' to find out what their kid is playing, should worry about finding that time, not getting angry when they find out that little Tommy's GTA3 has a hooker in it.

Am I the only one who’s Mom wouldn't buy Mortal Kombat? My mother was apparently responsible to a degree in what I was exposed to and she worked 12 hour days on the night shift. She eventually evaluated it herself on a trip with me to the arcade, and bought it for me - after she knew what it was and told me what she thought. I give a lot of respect to her because of that.

PARENTS EVERYWHERE read this: Your children are not parakeets. Quality time is not TV, and if you buy a game for junior, pay attention as to what the fudge it is. If you buy it anyway you RESCIND the right to complain later. Don't be a hypocrite and pretend after the fact that you really care; you obviously didn't care enough when you bought it.
I'd recommend this book on the effect of culture and parenting on children and the like: Home-Alone America: The Hidden Toll of Day Care, Wonder Drugs, and Other Parent Substitutes by Mary Eberstadt.

Your site seems like an atrocious kick into the nethers of a largely adult themed industry. Your facts are intentionally misleading, and unless I can see some supporting evidence, likely to be labeled as propaganda by many. It is not your right to spread falsehood and misdirection. It's vaguely reminiscent of a practice carried out in the late 1930's and early 1940's in Germany. Hopefully we won't be seeing any bonfires in your midst anytime soon. Especially once you people actually quit deluding yourself and redirect the blame where it truly lay.

I have made my peace.

-James Triche[/color]


[Edited on 12/26/2004 10:56:14 PM]

  • 12.26.2004 10:53 PM PDT
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they won't care what you say. i know it sounds negative, but it's for a noble cause. but i would make it about half the size it is befor thinking about sending it

  • 12.26.2004 10:57 PM PDT
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u should, and if u dont, i will (ill just change some of the info)

id also put something in there about their total hate for clans

for instance (true story): Me and my friend andy, about a year ago, had a very close friend move away, however, thanks to our interest in gaming, found eachother again thank to xbox live, and have formed a clan, in which we play together and have fun together all the time.

[Edited on 12/26/2004 11:02:59 PM]

  • 12.26.2004 10:59 PM PDT

Devil is Double is Deuce and Joker always trumps Deuce.

I'd lie about your age. They'd be looking for any excuse to dismiss your letter and your young age might be what they're looking for. If you added, say, 15 years to your age they might listen more closely to what you have to say.

  • 12.26.2004 11:01 PM PDT
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Send it, Jim. It's good. And MCs Brother, that's what Private Simmons did, and it's despicable. Lying only puts you on their level.

[Edited on 12/26/2004 11:03:25 PM]

  • 12.26.2004 11:02 PM PDT
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tanikaze, always the voice of reason

  • 12.26.2004 11:07 PM PDT

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To angrysk8r : If I decide not to send it, I don't want someone else doing it with the same letter. Write your own thoughts. All of these are my own thoughts, I merely cut and pasted a paragraph that said something better than I was thinking it. I'm glad you like it though!

To MC's Brother : I'm not going to lie to anyone. If they decide not to read it, it's their loss. I know what I wrote has merit, and I'm thinking of sending it simply on principle, so my conscience doesn't get the better of me.

I haven't told an outright lie in almost 9 years, and I don't intend on starting now, and certainly not with them.

  • 12.26.2004 11:07 PM PDT

Devil is Double is Deuce and Joker always trumps Deuce.

Posted by: Tanikaze
Send it, Jim. It's good. And MCs Brother, that's what Private Simmons did, and it's despicable. Lying only puts you on their level.


I know, I know. I'm just worried that they may stop right after reading his age and not even read the rest. It's still good and it still needs to be sent, but i'm just trying to think of things that they may see as an excuse to disregard the letter. For instance, if I wrote an excellent letter ,but I put my age (14) at the top they'd probably just throw it away.

  • 12.26.2004 11:09 PM PDT

Devil is Double is Deuce and Joker always trumps Deuce.

Posted by: GameJunkieJim
To MC's Brother : I'm not going to lie to anyone. If they decide not to read it, it's their loss. I know what I wrote has merit, and I'm thinking of sending it simply on principle, so my conscience doesn't get the better of me.

I haven't told an outright lie in almost 9 years, and I don't intend on starting now, and certainly not with them.


I completely understand. I just hope that they open their minds, at least for this letter. Best of luck.

  • 12.26.2004 11:10 PM PDT
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To angrysk8r : If I decide not to send it, I don't want someone else doing it with the same letter. Write your own thoughts. All of these are my own thoughts, I merely cut and pasted a paragraph that said something better than I was thinking it. I'm glad you like it though!

To MC's Brother : I'm not going to lie to anyone. If they decide not to read it, it's their loss. I know what I wrote has merit, and I'm thinking of sending it simply on principle, so my conscience doesn't get the better of me.

I haven't told an outright lie in almost 9 years, and I don't intend on starting now, and certainly not with them.


wow, u are certainly a person of great integrity
a lot of people could learn something from you (including me)

[Edited on 12/26/2004 11:11:41 PM]

  • 12.26.2004 11:10 PM PDT
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♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥ ♥
wes: u want me to gt naked on my web came?

nice job on that, you had some good points in there. defiantly send it

  • 12.26.2004 11:19 PM PDT

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I would like some counterpoint from the person that voted no. I'd like to know thoughts from all sides.

  • 12.27.2004 7:08 AM PDT
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I say you should send it. Even if it does no good you still will get the pride of, I tried to do something good, it may have failed but I still tried.

  • 12.27.2004 7:27 AM PDT

I suggest you revise it, then send it.

I have a problem with these paragraphs:
If you wouldn't mind sending me some of your paraphernalia, I would like to understand just what gives you the audacity to take the blame of poor child rearing off the hands of the parents and place them on a non-personal entity like a video game company?
Simply put; I'd like a full understanding of how you can maintain a site dedicated to promoting the casting off of family values. If more of your time was spent actually being parents and monitoring what your children did, rather than making slanderous and ignorant websites, then the country would be a lot better off.

and
PARENTS EVERYWHERE read this: Your children are not parakeets. Quality time is not TV, and if you buy a game for junior, pay attention as to what the fudge it is. If you buy it anyway you RESCIND the right to complain later. Don't be a hypocrite and pretend after the fact that you really care; you obviously didn't care enough when you bought it.
I'd recommend this book on the effect of culture and parenting on children and the like: Home-Alone America: The Hidden Toll of Day Care, Wonder Drugs, and Other Parent Substitutes by Mary Eberstadt.

Your site seems like an atrocious kick into the nethers of a largely adult themed industry. Your facts are intentionally misleading, and unless I can see some supporting evidence, likely to be labeled as propaganda by many. It is not your right to spread falsehood and misdirection. It's vaguely reminiscent of a practice carried out in the late 1930's and early 1940's in Germany. Hopefully we won't be seeing any bonfires in your midst anytime soon. Especially once you people actually quit deluding yourself and redirect the blame where it truly lay.

I would suggest revising this to sound less malicious. You make a very good point, but it sounds a little to "violent" and might add proof to their cause.

And I do believe that video games can be addictive. Have you seen those little kids with their Gameboys? They can't go anywhere without them.

I believe that MAVAV's battle should be with stores selling the video games, not the creators of the video games. If a title gets an M rating, the stores should not sell that game to minors. Parents also need to pay attention to what games their kids are playing.

  • 12.27.2004 7:49 AM PDT

Add the email above to your MSN to contact me with emergencies on the forum.

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I will look at those paragraphs thanks --


And I do believe that video games can be addictive. Have you seen those little kids with their Gameboys? They can't go anywhere without them.
Psychological addictions are subjective. I was addicted to my skateboard, and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (Circa 1989, not the new crap). I'm addicted to cigarettes. One is a physical addiction. Two of them were psychological, and went away after other things came along.

  • 12.27.2004 8:27 AM PDT

Posted by: GameJunkieJim
I will look at those paragraphs thanks --


And I do believe that video games can be addictive. Have you seen those little kids with their Gameboys? They can't go anywhere without them.
Psychological addictions are subjective. I was addicted to my skateboard, and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (Circa 1989, not the new crap). I'm addicted to cigarettes. One is a physical addiction. Two of them were psychological, and went away after other things came along.

I agree, but it still is addictive. I remember spending a lot of time outside when I was little, but I don't see that anymore. Too many kids are now sitting in front of a TV playing a video game, or playing their Gameboys when they are outside. The problems that MAVAV brings up are real, but they are trying to fix it the wrong way. The onus has to be on the parents and those selling the games, not the companies making the games.

  • 12.27.2004 8:44 AM PDT
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Little children shouldn't be playing violent video games. But that responsibility is the parent's, not anyone else. It disgusts me to see how much time and effort is wasted into complaining about things, in the hope that they will be banned or otherwise, because they themselves are too lazy to do anything. In my opinion, TV is much worse. So is society, in general. If the parents aren't willing to spend the time to keep their kids active in other things besides video games, then they shouldn't have had kids in the first place. And that's the major problem. If you look at the majority of today's youth, well, it's bad. It's really bad. So many kids don't have a real family. Their parents simply don't care, and give them money to compensate for the time they've neglected to spend with their children. And that, my friends, is a much larger problem. Without a proper family, a kid is going to grow up much worse then if he played video games. Besides, if your kid doesn't play video games, he's probably getting stoned or drunk somewhere else.

Oh, and an excellent letter, GameJunkieJim. Send it, for sure.

[Edited on 12/27/2004 9:36:45 AM]

  • 12.27.2004 9:36 AM PDT

Besides, if your kid doesn't play video games, he's probably getting stoned or drunk somewhere else.
Maybe that should be added to the letter. That will be the motto for GFVAV, Gamers For Videogame Addiction and Violence.

  • 12.27.2004 9:41 AM PDT

I hate everything, but it's not my fault.

Nice lettter, you should send it. Although dmbfan09 may have a good point about those two sections, they might be able to easily dismiss it, and point to the maliciousness of it being caused by videogames. Now I know what you were doing instead of PMing me back about the Myth clan :) That's ok though, that letter is more important, especially if they publicly respond to it on their website...I would love to see that, from the organization that dubbed E3 the Evil Enterntainment Expo.

  • 12.27.2004 10:35 AM PDT
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Send it. I was thinking about sending them one myself but if I put my age in it they would most likely not even bother reading further.

  • 12.27.2004 10:44 AM PDT

Devil is Double is Deuce and Joker always trumps Deuce.

I always wanted someone to send them a good, well written paper, and you seem like the perfect person to do it, Jim

  • 12.27.2004 10:47 AM PDT
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The United States of America-- STILL more rights than North Korea!
--New official U.S. motto.

Cronin's Law----The New Flood Drinking Game

Put your age at the end... they read it and say "ohhhh darn another well-written one----WTFH!!!! IT WAS WRITTEN BY A FERAL CHILD!!!!". Then their primitive stereotyping brains will explode in a puff of logic.

  • 12.27.2004 11:08 AM PDT
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Jim, this is a very well-written letter and I hope MAVAV reads it and they open their eye's. I just wanted to point out a spelling mistake in the following paragraph:

Regarding the site’s content, describing those people responding to their e-mail address as “feral young children” seems very elitist and inappropriate for an atmosphere of discussion. An attack on the character of the other side is never a fair and reasonable tactic, and just shows that the creators of this site are too close-minded to accept any other view points other that their own. Your "articles" section has been down, for well over a month, and doesn't help with your credibility.

"That" should be "than."

  • 12.27.2004 11:27 AM PDT

I'd just say to them "If you carry on publicising your crap then I'll suffocate you, just like I saw in Manhunt". The only way to talk to morons is to treat them as such.

  • 12.27.2004 12:16 PM PDT
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Your name is James? Interesting...Just kidding. It looks pretty good and it is true. My mom wouldn't let me play Mortal Kombat either...so every once in awhile I would just wander over to my friends house...but that is beside the point. I say send it.

  • 12.27.2004 12:21 PM PDT

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