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Subject: Do We Need More Moderators?

Tag 'em and Bag 'em!

We don't need more moderators, the ones we have just now are doing a good job. There's never been a time when I didn't see some form of spam being locked up and such, mind you I'm only on for about 3-4 hours.

  • 12.14.2007 9:34 AM PDT

Posted by: Recon Number 54

My question is, what is wrong if a member makes an inappropriate post (or spams, or flames, or violates rules) and that post/user is not seen or addressed for..... a couple of hours? How is that terrible? If it is reported... the Matrix has them. We are going to see them (whether it is realtime or after they have gone to bed) and we are going to deal with them. It's not like their text is going to disappear or become hidden because a few hours have passed.


Because that person can do a lot of damage in the 2-3 hours it takes for a ninja to respond, thus causing further disruption and making the overall enjoyment of B.net..........less enjoyable.

When a person starts a flame war or goes on a spamming spree, it begets more flaming and spamming. I would dare to say that most forum goers do not just ignore the flame or spam, they jump right in with both feet. Ideally they shouldn't, but we all know most people do.

  • 12.14.2007 9:38 AM PDT

Tag 'em and Bag 'em!

Posted by: atomic weggie
Posted by: Recon Number 54

My question is, what is wrong if a member makes an inappropriate post (or spams, or flames, or violates rules) and that post/user is not seen or addressed for..... a couple of hours? How is that terrible? If it is reported... the Matrix has them. We are going to see them (whether it is realtime or after they have gone to bed) and we are going to deal with them. It's not like their text is going to disappear or become hidden because a few hours have passed.


Because that person can do a lot of damage in the 2-3 hours it takes for a ninja to respond, thus causing further disruption and making the overall enjoyment of B.net..........less enjoyable.

When a person starts a flame war or goes on a spamming spree, it begets more flaming and spamming. I would dare to say that most forum goers do not just ignore the flame or spam, they jump right in with both feet. Ideally they shouldn't, but we all know most people do.


That would be a worst case scenario. Have you ever seen that happen here at B.net? I know I haven't

[Edited on 12.14.2007 9:48 AM PST]

  • 12.14.2007 9:47 AM PDT

Posted by: SGM26
Posted by: atomic weggie
Posted by: Recon Number 54

My question is, what is wrong if a member makes an inappropriate post (or spams, or flames, or violates rules) and that post/user is not seen or addressed for..... a couple of hours? How is that terrible? If it is reported... the Matrix has them. We are going to see them (whether it is realtime or after they have gone to bed) and we are going to deal with them. It's not like their text is going to disappear or become hidden because a few hours have passed.


Because that person can do a lot of damage in the 2-3 hours it takes for a ninja to respond, thus causing further disruption and making the overall enjoyment of B.net..........less enjoyable.

When a person starts a flame war or goes on a spamming spree, it begets more flaming and spamming. I would dare to say that most forum goers do not just ignore the flame or spam, they jump right in with both feet. Ideally they shouldn't, but we all know most people do.


That would be a worst case scenario. Have you ever seen that happen here at B.net? I know I haven't


Spamming sprees are rare, only when impy get's really drunk. But flame wars? Just about every day in the H3 forum and the Flood. The longer it takes a mod to respond, the longer the rest of us have to roll our eyes as the 4-5 people go from thread to thread flaming each other.

  • 12.14.2007 9:56 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

I agree with Qbix.

While some more moderators wouldn't be a bad idea necessarily, I think we should let our new tools, the new member roles and reporting tools, get well worn in before we start demanding more action.

While I was expecting a report feature, I was surprised it came this quickly, along with an even more surprising ranking additions. By what you are saying here, it seems that you are, intentionally or not, giving Achronos a slap in the face, or, at least, a reason to believe we aren't thankful for what he has given us.

I'd sure be insulted if I were him.

  • 12.14.2007 10:30 AM PDT

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How dare you say BobBQ doesn't exist often! That man is gold.

Whatever that means. >_>

P.S. I think the forums have been looking great since this report feature.

[Edited on 12.14.2007 10:32 AM PST]

  • 12.14.2007 10:31 AM PDT
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As of right now, I think bnet has more moderators than it ever has. Even though some may be inactive or what not, it still doesn't change the fact that we have a lot already. Other than that, this site is run pretty well, even if no moderators are online. But once they are on, the cleaning up is fast.

Honestly, I'd rather keep all the moderators we have right now then let another egoistic person have privileges that control another person's thoughts and opinions.

  • 12.14.2007 10:41 AM PDT
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And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

Also, I don't really see the problem with the current amount of spam. After the new report feature was introduced to us the forums are looking better than ever. (Or at least better than in a long time). Now, for the most part, the spam stays in the threads which obviously attracts the spammers. As threads regarding Recon and other dumb subjects.
And as WhiffleBall is saying, yes there are some threads regarding Recon etc, but as an independent human being you have the opportunity to not go to those threads. Then why even bother looking at them? If there are three or four dumb threads at the first page, why don't you rather look at all the other good threads there?

I mean, why ruin your own fun when you have the opportunity not to do so?

  • 12.14.2007 10:44 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Posted by: Qbix89
...but as an independent human being you have the opportunity to not go to those threads.


'tis true.

Not to mention the fact that we can now voice our dislike for the threads without bumping them. The report feature is there so members can make a difference without adding to the unnecessary spam.

  • 12.14.2007 10:55 AM PDT

-Quaere verum.

Got a report? Use the report tool or send a pm.
Chairleg Productions presents: 'Console Wars' and 'Games as Art?' (also on Halo Waypoint).

Just for your peace of mind, i visit the site every day and actively moderate (includes scanning through the forums) for quite a number of hours each day. Just because you can't see something, that doesn't mean it isn't there, lurking in the shadows.

In regards to the original topic, i believe my feelings have been perfectly summed up already. I feel perfectly content with the coverage we're able to get with the current number of moderators but that coverage can also be increased by more users using the spam report button where needed. If the community increases in size or the problems increase in frequency, i'm sure so too will the number of moderators.

  • 12.14.2007 11:08 AM PDT

Posted by: Qbix89
...but as an independent human being you have the opportunity to not go to those threads.


Your assumption in regards to my self control is grossly exaggerated.

  • 12.14.2007 11:13 AM PDT

Posted by: Mr SnuggIy
So I think Jun's a master chef, because he takes off his helmet and your like whoa, I think he's a chef.

So to shorten this up, Jun is master chef.

Posted by: Gods Prophet
Just for your peace of mind, I visit the site every day and actively moderate (includes scanning through the forums) for quite a number of hours each day. Just because you can't see something, that doesn't mean it isn't there, lurking in the shadows.

In regards to the original topic, I believe my feelings have been perfectly summed up already. I feel perfectly content with the coverage we're able to get with the current number of moderators but that coverage can also be increased by more users using the spam report button where needed. If the community increases in size or the problems increase in frequency, I'm sure so too will the number of moderators.

I apologize. Your name didn't ring a bell, but now that I see your avatar, I recognize that I've seen you online quite a bit.

Anyway, I understand where you guys are coming from and you do work your asses off quite a lot. I know that (I don't want to to sound ungrateful for your services, that's the last thing I want to happen). However, would one or two new Ninjas really harm? The only way that it could would be if the new mod(s) abused their power, which I don't really see happening since I think that Achronos would be able to pick trustworthy members.

  • 12.14.2007 11:20 AM PDT

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There ninja's.

Your not supposed to see them coming before they strike.

  • 12.14.2007 11:23 AM PDT
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And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

Posted by: prometheus25
Not to mention the fact that we can now voice our dislike for the threads without bumping them. The report feature is there so members can make a difference without adding to the unnecessary spam.


Very true Prometheus. (But I am still better than you) Quite frankly I don't see much of a problem now as the report option has been added.


Posted by: atomic weggie
Your assumption in regards to my self control is grossly exaggerated.


Sorry, forgot to mention that I was talking about everyone except you. ;P

[Edited on 12.14.2007 12:00 PM PST]

  • 12.14.2007 11:58 AM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: WhiffleBallTony
However, would one or two new Ninjas really harm? The only way that it could would be if the new mod(s) abused their power, which I don't really see happening since I think that Achronos would be able to pick trustworthy members.
No, one or two, or even more new moderators would not harm a thing, and in fact would probably be a good thing. But the original topic of this thread was whether we need more moderators, and I maintain that the answer is no. Therefore, if Achronos does not trust anybody enough currently to promote them to moderator, I think that's fine, thanks to the kickassery of the Report button. Although it would be nice to have a few more trustworthy, non-power-abusing moderators, it most certainly is not necessary.

I am going to change subjects and respectfully take issue with what Qbix and Zee said. Saying, "we don't need more moderators, we need fewer bad posters" is a statement that has a couple of problems with it.

First, it seems to me that saying "we need fewer bad posters" is an acknowledgement of a problem, not any kind of solution. In fact, the best way to get rid of bad posters is through stronger enforcement procedures. And more moderators is one way of accomplishing that. Therefore, the statement itself seems to imply that we do need more (note that I personally don't think that we need more mods -- see above and my previous post in this thread).

Second, I don't see a way to get rid of the few who cause the most trouble. Not under BNet's current system. The dismissive phrase "we need fewer bad posters" is both obvious and pointless. The worst of them will merely come back a few minutes later with a new account, while temporary blacklistings are only, by definition, a temporary restraint on other bad posters whose reform while blacklisted is certainly not assured.

Therefore, I respectfully disagree with the phrase "we don't need more moderators, we need fewer bad posters."

  • 12.14.2007 1:04 PM PDT
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I get more ass than a toilet seat.

Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: WhiffleBallTony
However, would one or two new Ninjas really harm? The only way that it could would be if the new mod(s) abused their power, which I don't really see happening since I think that Achronos would be able to pick trustworthy members.
No, one or two, or even more new moderators would not harm a thing, and in fact would probably be a good thing. But the original topic of this thread was whether we need more moderators, and I maintain that the answer is no. Therefore, if Achronos does not trust anybody enough currently to promote them to moderator, I think that's fine, thanks to the kickassery of the Report button. Although it would be nice to have a few more trustworthy, non-power-abusing moderators, it most certainly is not necessary.

I am going to change subjects and respectfully take issue with what Qbix and Zee said. Saying, "we don't need more moderators, we need fewer bad posters" is a statement that has a couple of problems with it.

First, it seems to me that saying "we need fewer bad posters" is an acknowledgement of a problem, not any kind of solution. In fact, the best way to get rid of bad posters is through stronger enforcement procedures. And more moderators is one way of accomplishing that. Therefore, the statement itself seems to imply that we do need more (note that I personally don't think that we need more mods -- see above and my previous post in this thread).

Second, I don't see a way to get rid of the few who cause the most trouble. Not under BNet's current system. The dismissive phrase "we need fewer bad posters" is both obvious and pointless. The worst of them will merely come back a few minutes later with a new account, while temporary blacklistings are only, by definition, a temporary restraint on other bad posters whose reform while blacklisted is certainly not assured.

Therefore, I respectfully disagree with the phrase "we don't need more moderators, we need fewer bad posters."


^^ What he said ^^

  • 12.14.2007 1:12 PM PDT
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And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

I agree with what you just said, Foman. It is an acknowledgment of a problem. But the thing about the problem is that, as you said, basically can't get rid of it no matter how many moderators we get. So more moderators wouldn't do too much of a difference. As you said, it would be better to have more moderators, but they are far from needed.

Still, there are one way to get rid of all the alts etc:
To let only Heroic members and those above post, that would probably get rid of it. But that would be elitism, wouldn't it? (I just had to say it)

[Edited on 12.14.2007 1:15 PM PST]

  • 12.14.2007 1:14 PM PDT

You say tomato; I say potato.

Posted by: just another fan
Running turtle, skiptrace and nuchie aren't moderators for starters, Jim doesn't have any internet atm, and just because you don't see them, doesn't mean they aren't online. A lot of moderation happens behind the scenes.

Except for Maka, he's a special case.
I submit that Nuchie is a mod.

  • 12.14.2007 1:20 PM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: Qbix89
I agree with what you just said, Foman. It is an acknowledgment of a problem. But the thing about the problem is that, as you said, basically can't get rid of it no matter how many moderators we get. So more moderators wouldn't do too much of a difference. As you said, it would be better to have more moderators, but they are far from needed.

I never really said that though. I think that more of moderators would absolutely help to get rid of the bad posters. And help to keep them away too -- my experience with CompoundIntelligence taught me that bad posters tend to stop bothering with their spam and trolls in a forum if their post is always locked within seconds with no chance for them to delight in the angry responses to their troll or their spam.

What I was saying before was that there is no such thing as a true "forum emergency" that really must be handled immediately, with a few notable exceptions (such as the moderator account hack back over the summer). The vast majority of bad posts will do nothing but be an annoyance until a mod can lock it. While the bumping of bad posts by angry forumgoers is annoying too, I tend to just go to page two if I'm looking for more threads with actual substance -- it's just not that big a deal.

And so for those reasons, I said at first and still say that although more moderators would be nice and would indisputably reduce the amount of time it takes for a bad thread to be locked, the current Report Post feature and the lack of any true "emergency" lead me to the conclusion that we certainly do not "need" more moderators. Know what I mean, Vern?

  • 12.14.2007 1:23 PM PDT
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So now I'm a beta tester. Let's see where this goes.

Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: WhiffleBallTony
However, would one or two new Ninjas really harm? The only way that it could would be if the new mod(s) abused their power, which I don't really see happening since I think that Achronos would be able to pick trustworthy members.
No, one or two, or even more new moderators would not harm a thing, and in fact would probably be a good thing. But the original topic of this thread was whether we need more moderators, and I maintain that the answer is no. Therefore, if Achronos does not trust anybody enough currently to promote them to moderator, I think that's fine, thanks to the kickassery of the Report button. Although it would be nice to have a few more trustworthy, non-power-abusing moderators, it most certainly is not necessary.

I am going to change subjects and respectfully take issue with what Qbix and Zee said. Saying, "we don't need more moderators, we need fewer bad posters" is a statement that has a couple of problems with it.

First, it seems to me that saying "we need fewer bad posters" is an acknowledgement of a problem, not any kind of solution. In fact, the best way to get rid of bad posters is through stronger enforcement procedures. And more moderators is one way of accomplishing that. Therefore, the statement itself seems to imply that we do need more (note that I personally don't think that we need more mods -- see above and my previous post in this thread).

Second, I don't see a way to get rid of the few who cause the most trouble. Not under BNet's current system. The dismissive phrase "we need fewer bad posters" is both obvious and pointless. The worst of them will merely come back a few minutes later with a new account, while temporary blacklistings are only, by definition, a temporary restraint on other bad posters whose reform while blacklisted is certainly not assured.

Therefore, I respectfully disagree with the phrase "we don't need more moderators, we need fewer bad posters."


What we need is for everyone to follow the rules. But If that were the case then we wouldn't need mods. Of course some people aren't going to play by the rules so we need people to watch over us. (Yes I know all of this goes without saying but...) From what I have seen everyone is loving and using the new spam button. In that way we are all kind of mini-mods now. The full-out-mods are now just cleaning up after us. (That statement probably isn't 100% accurate but I standby it.)

The point is we should only have as many mods as we need. No less and no more. (I put less before more for a reason.)

[Edited on 12.14.2007 1:28 PM PST]

  • 12.14.2007 1:25 PM PDT

Posted by: Mr SnuggIy
So I think Jun's a master chef, because he takes off his helmet and your like whoa, I think he's a chef.

So to shorten this up, Jun is master chef.

Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: Qbix89
I agree with what you just said, Foman. It is an acknowledgment of a problem. But the thing about the problem is that, as you said, basically can't get rid of it no matter how many moderators we get. So more moderators wouldn't do too much of a difference. As you said, it would be better to have more moderators, but they are far from needed.

I never really said that though. I think that more of moderators would absolutely help to get rid of the bad posters. And help to keep them away too -- my experience with CompoundIntelligence taught me that bad posters tend to stop bothering with their spam and trolls in a forum if their post is always locked within seconds with no chance for them to delight in the angry responses to their troll or their spam.

What I was saying before was that there is no such thing as a true "forum emergency" that really must be handled immediately, with a few notable exceptions (such as the moderator account hack back over the summer). The vast majority of bad posts will do nothing but be an annoyance until a mod can lock it. While the bumping of bad posts by angry forumgoers is annoying too, I tend to just go to page two if I'm looking for more threads with actual substance -- it's just not that big a deal.

And so for those reasons, I said at first and still say that although more moderators would be nice and would indisputably reduce the amount of time it takes for a bad thread to be locked, the current Report Post feature and the lack of any true "emergency" lead me to the conclusion that we certainly do not "need" more moderators. Know what I mean, Vern?

Okay, I see your point. I guess that we don't really need more Ninjas, but a few more would help greatly to improve the community.

  • 12.14.2007 1:34 PM PDT
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And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

Posted by: Nedge
What we need is for everyone to follow the rules. But If that were the case then we wouldn't need mods. Of course some people aren't going to play by the rules so we need people to watch over us. (Yes I know all of this goes without saying but...) From what I have seen everyone is loving and using the new spam button. In that way we are all kind of mini-mods now. The full-out-mods are now just cleaning up after us. (That statement probably isn't 100% accurate but I standby it.)

The point is we should only have as many mods as we need. No less and no more. (I put less before more for a reason.)



Whatever you said now didn't make too much sense. Actually, all your words were fighting each other.

My reply to you: I like chicken, it's especially good with rice.

  • 12.14.2007 1:39 PM PDT
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Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: Nedge
The point is we should only have as many mods as we need. No less and no more. (I put less before more for a reason.)
No offense, Nedge, but I don't really see the reasoning or logic behind this statement. If you only needed 20 police officers to keep a city from falling into mayhem, but you could reasonably have 30 police officers, which would help the city respond to 911 calls faster, then why not go with 30?

You don't need them, and it can be hard to find 10 people who you trust with a gun and extreme power, so maybe you don't hire them. But it sure wouldn't hurt anything if you could, right?

Here's a quote that I thought was (barely) appropriate at this point and that might be good for a chuckle:
STAN
I need to talk about your flair.

JOANNA
Really? I have 15 buttons on. I, uh....

STAN
Well, ok, 15 is minimum, ok?

JOANNA
Ok.

STAN
Now, it's up to you whether or not you want to just do the bare
minimum. Well, like Brian, for example, has 37 pieces of flair. And a
terrific smile.

JOANNA
Ok. Ok, you want me to wear more?

STAN
Look. Joanna.

JOANNA
Yeah.

STAN
People can get a cheeseburger anywhere, ok? They come to Chotchkie's
for the atmosphere and the attitude. That's what the flair's about.
It's about fun.

JOANNA
Ok. So, more then?

STAN
Look, we want you to express yourself, ok? If you think the bare
minimum is enough, then ok. But some people choose to wear more and we
encourage that, ok? You do want to express yourself, don't you?



[Edited on 12.14.2007 1:42 PM PST]

  • 12.14.2007 1:40 PM PDT
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Posted by: evilcam
Gz, I'd kill the whole world for you




3-19-07

Posted by: Sexbox
Posted by: Qbix89
We need less sucky members.
Less evilcam, more Ninja 0n Fire!


Wait, less mods who do good work and more mod-ish people that don't do much?

  • 12.14.2007 1:40 PM PDT

but there's no sense crying over every mistake
you just keep on trying until you run out of cake

Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: Nedge
The point is we should only have as many mods as we need. No less and no more. (I put less before more for a reason.)
No offense, Nedge, but I don't really see the reasoning or logic behind this statement. If you only needed 20 police officers to keep a city from falling into mayhem, but you could reasonably have 30 police officers, which would help the city respond to 911 calls faster, then why not go with 30?

You don't need them, and it can be hard to find 10 people who you trust with a gun and extreme power, so maybe you don't hire them. But it sure wouldn't hurt anything if you could, right?

Here's a quote that I thought was (barely) appropriate at this point and that might be good for a chuckle:
STAN
I need to talk about your flair.

JOANNA
Really? I have 15 buttons on. I, uh....

STAN
Well, ok, 15 is minimum, ok?

JOANNA
Ok.

STAN
Now, it's up to you whether or not you want to just do the bare
minimum. Well, like Brian, for example, has 37 pieces of flair. And a
terrific smile.

JOANNA
Ok. Ok, you want me to wear more?

STAN
Look. Joanna.

JOANNA
Yeah.

STAN
People can get a cheeseburger anywhere, ok? They come to Chotchkie's
for the atmosphere and the attitude. That's what the flair's about.
It's about fun.

JOANNA
Ok. So, more then?

STAN
Look, we want you to express yourself, ok? If you think the bare
minimum is enough, then ok. But some people choose to wear more and we
encourage that, ok? You do want to express yourself, don't you?





I said no salt...NO salt on the margerita. I'll just take my travelers checks to another resort.

lol Good stuff Foman, and a great example.

EDIT:fixed

[Edited on 12.14.2007 1:46 PM PST]

  • 12.14.2007 1:46 PM PDT

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