Bungie.net Community
This topic has moved here: Subject: Questions About Bans And Alternate Bnet Accounts
  • Subject: Questions About Bans And Alternate Bnet Accounts
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • of 4
Subject: Questions About Bans And Alternate Bnet Accounts
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

SPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!

I was not talking to you at all ses. I was actually agreeing with you. That was not too clear because...I suck at typing.

  • 12.29.2007 2:30 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: sesquipadelian
Posted by: The First Legend
Now, after reading this thread I noticed something rather interesting. The only group ses is in a group called xIRONxCURTAINx, where in the member list here there are 2 sesquipadelian accounts. Amazingly enough, if you click on the other ses' name here you will see that the account was permanently banned. This leaves us with two possible options, Ses is in a group along with someone who faked his name to create problems for him, act like an ass, etc. or he himself made an alternate account and was permabanned on it. That being said, i dont make accusations without clear proof, as I've told him not to and i try not to be a hypocrite, so Ill let you draw your own conclusions on this, but either way, if he is in groups with someone making alts, or he himself is making alts.

Screeny

Just seems weird to me


this post seems weird to me. i stopped responding to any posts by first legend a little while ago. since then, he has reposted himself repeatedly in attempts to get me to post about his thoughts, and now he has done something VERY odd. for some reason, he has followed me to this forum. not only that, but he went to the trouble to do loads of fact checking to look into my account history. that shows impressive understanding of the bnet system for a guy with a brand new bnet account.

in any case, i will address his findings. the bnet account that i post on all of the time is the bnet account that i use. it is about 3 years old and active. it is linked to my gt, and it has always been linked to my gt. all of my posts and all of my halo mm details are open to all to see. i also have another bnet account with my login name spelled slightly differently. that account is dormant and i do not post on that account.

some time ago (i think it was over a year ago) someone set up a bnet account with a name that looked identical to mine (i do not know how he did it). he also selected the same avatar as me and he posted altered quotes from posts that i made. he also broke various forum rules on that account, and, according to first legend's findings, that bogus account was banned permanently. the account that first legend mentioned was opened long ago and has been dormant (i suppose) for about a year.

so, as everyone can see, i post on one account and that account reflects facts about me in bnet and in halo mm. and, for some reason, somebody at one point made an account in an attempt to look like my account, and that account (whatever it is) was banned. those are all of the relevant facts about my bnet account and activity.

now let's look at first legend's bnet activity. he has a brand new bnet account. even though his account only indicates about a month of life, he seems to know his way around bnet like a seasoned forum vet. he spent considerable time following me to another forum and to another thread, he posted his concerns about my bnet activity, and he spent who knows how much time looking into my group membership and tracking down bnet accounts that have not been active in lord knows how long. first legend reposts his own posts in attempts to get me to address his thoughts (this can be seen now in the optimatch forums, assuming that he will not go and alter those posts). first legend also spent considerable time tracking down quotes that i have made in various posts over the last how ever many months and has made off-topic posts doing nothing more than poking fun at me. first legend's brand new account does not have his gt linked. first legend's posts frequently violate forum rules, including this one, where he has used foul language.

looking at my bnet account history (which is extensive and accessible to all) and looking at first legend's bnet account history (which started recently at a time that corresponds to the cessation of activity of another guy who followed me around from thread to thread and broke forum rules with regularity), which one looks more like an alt account made in an attempt to avoid a bnet ban?

first legend, please do not post such wild speculation about me in the future. the conclusions that you jump to never cease to amaze me. that anyone would see my bnet activity and suppose that i am posting on alt accounts to avoid bnet bans is beyond me.
The same thing has happened to many users here who have a lower-case "l" in their names. Most famously, in recent history, was the alt account "MiIkie," created with a capital "eye" rather than a lower-case "ell" in his name. The account was created to harass the real Milkie. The alt account joined all of the original Milkie's groups and copied his signature, then began making supertrolling posts in the same style as the threads that I listed in this post (here's another one) and spam, as well as asking a moderator to lock one of the original Milkie's extremely popular threads (the moderator, having no reason not to believe that it was the same account, did so). The fake "MiIkie" account was eventually banned after I finally noticed and alerted a moderator (I think it was cam but I can't remember now), but he did a lot of damage the original Milkie's reputation in that time.

I have no doubt that this same person did the same thing to ses's account, but was noticed before he could do as much damage. I readily believe ses's version of the story, and in fact, this incident is a great highlight of the problems with alternate accounts around here.

If you have a lower-case "ell" or an upper-case "eye" in your name, and you are a regular poster, you should consider linking a gamertag and changing your avatar to your Halo 3 emblem in order to make it tougher to impersonate you. Another potential solution is to create an alternate account using the opposite of whatever your name contains and let it lie dormant, thus "squatting" on it so that nobody else can take it for purposes of impersonating you. That is what I would consider a completely benign purpose for an alternate account.

  • 12.29.2007 3:44 PM PDT

Campiagn Kill Count :31,745. And growing.

The Revisionaries- One of the greatest screenshot groups on B.net. With 250 members and growing.

Why would the forums be limited to Gold accounts? My 360 broke down a little bit ago, and I decided to call Microsoft and cancel my account so I wouldn't have to pay for the month or so that I would not have to pay for a service I don't have acess to, thus degrading it to a silver.

While I am in favor (mostly) of the idea, would there be a way to check recent activity on the gamertag, or something like that? Because while I should be getting my Xbox soon, I think it would really.. suck (for lack of a better word).. to be someone who couldn't participate in forums because they didn't want to pay 8 dollars for that month.

  • 12.29.2007 3:45 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: snoozy9420
Why would the forums be limited to Gold accounts? My 360 broke down a little bit ago, and I decided to call Microsoft and cancel my account so I wouldn't have to pay for the month or so that I would not have to pay for a service I don't have acess to, thus degrading it to a silver.

While I am in favor (mostly) of the idea, would there be a way to check recent activity on the gamertag, or something like that? Because while I should be getting my Xbox soon, I think it would really.. suck (for lack of a better word).. to be someone who couldn't participate in forums because they didn't want to pay 8 dollars for that month.
It would suck for you, but I don't think that it sounds unfair at all. If you don't want to pay $8, then you do not have the right to give Matchmaking feedback.

It might be a bit harsh in some instances, but I think that the "greater good" (sorry for the cliche) is more important in this case. It won't be perfectly fair for every situation, but let's face it, your situation is an anomaly. The vast majority of people could create a silver account for free (or a few bucks) in order to link the gamertag to an alternate account and troll/spam the Optimatch forum. Back when cheating was a massive problem in Halo 2, I heard of people who have upwards of a hundred certificates or gift cards for free XBL silver accounts just lying around the house for when cheating accounts got banned.

I really like Recon's analogy to voting rights. The Optimatch Forum is primarily for feedback regarding Matchmaking. If you want to have a say in who runs the country, you must prove that you are a "resident," so to speak, and then must follow the law (incarcerated criminals lose their voting rights in the United States). If you renounce your citizenship, even if you claim it is only temporary, you lose the right to vote. The same situation can be applied here, and to me, it seems perfectly fair.

  • 12.29.2007 3:59 PM PDT

Trailer Park Boys ~ One of the best Canadian made comedies ever.

What about the group of members who don’t have linked tags?

Some have linking issues and can’t link their tag. Others casually visit this site and don’t wish to link their tag, some for privacy reasons, and others just because they don’t wish too. How about the members without linked gamertags who play Halo 3 to some degree and know how gametypes work and can give feedback appropriately?

Should we just stomp on them and say, “No, you can’t participate?” Just because a handful of spammers who waste their lives creating ALTs, should we turn the Optimatch forum into a lockdown board where only certain people can join?

I’m sick of you people taking these spammers so seriously that it affects your mood and “fun factor” on B.net. They’re barely noticeable; the Forum Ninjas do a great job keeping the Optimatch forum clean. And if you make Optimatch linked tag only, where will the spam go? Into other forums of course. You’re not fixing the problem; you’re only temporally avoiding it while it spills into other areas of the site.

Again, I don’t see a major problem here. All of these suggested tools to combat spammers are a waste of resources and time while having the current banning system in place. Maybe having the banning system ban mac addresses will effectively reduce spammers but that itself requires a lot of work to combat a problem that’s a minor nuisance. Silver memberships are free. People could easily create another one and link it to an ALT to spam away so that option is out of the question except allowing gold accounts.

B.net should remain an open community on all boards like it always has been. You’re letting a handful of spammers wreck this community and having it wall itself in from the internet.

Posted by: x Foman123 x
It would suck for you, but I don't think that it sounds unfair at all. If you don't want to pay $8, then you do not have the right to give Matchmaking feedback.

It might be a bit harsh in some instances, but I think that the "greater good" (sorry for the cliche) is more important in this case. It won't be perfectly fair for every situation, but let's face it, your situation is an anomaly. The vast majority of people could create a silver account for free (or a few bucks) in order to link the gamertag to an alternate account and troll/spam the Optimatch forum. Back when cheating was a massive problem in Halo 2, I heard of people who have upwards of a hundred certificates or gift cards for free XBL silver accounts just lying around the house for when cheating accounts got banned.

I really like Recon's analogy to voting rights. The Optimatch Forum is primarily for feedback regarding Matchmaking. If you want to have a say in who runs the country, you must prove that you are a "resident," so to speak, and then must follow the law (incarcerated criminals lose their voting rights in the United States). If you renounce your citizenship, even if you claim it is only temporary, you lose the right to vote. The same situation can be applied here, and to me, it seems perfectly fair.

  • 12.29.2007 5:15 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: ReZeNeR
What about the group of members who don’t have linked tags?

Some have linking issues and can’t link their tag. Others casually visit this site and don’t wish to link their tag, some for privacy reasons, and others just because they don’t wish too. How about the members without linked gamertags who play Halo 3 to some degree and know how gametypes work and can give feedback appropriately?

Should we just stomp on them and say, “No, you can’t participate?” Just because a handful of spammers who waste their lives creating ALTs, should we turn the Optimatch forum into a lockdown board where only certain people can join?

I’m sick of you people taking these spammers so seriously that it affects your mood and “fun factor” on B.net. They’re barely noticeable; the Forum Ninjas do a great job keeping the Optimatch forum clean. And if you make Optimatch linked tag only, where will the spam go? Into other forums of course. You’re not fixing the problem; you’re only temporally avoiding it while it spills into other areas of the site.

Again, I don’t see a major problem here. All of these suggested tools to combat spammers are a waste of resources and time while having the current banning system in place. Maybe having the banning system ban mac addresses will effectively reduce spammers but that itself requires a lot of work to combat a problem that’s a minor nuisance. Silver memberships are free. People could easily create another one and link it to an ALT to spam away so that option is out of the question except allowing gold accounts.

B.net should remain an open community on all boards like it always has been. You’re letting a handful of spammers wreck this community and having it wall itself in from the internet.
I'll address your points in the order that you made them.

For the tiny handful of users who have "linking issues" and cannot link an XBL gold gamertag to a BNet account, that is not a reason to leave the Optimatch Forum open. That issue can be handled on the back end through helpful posts in this forum or elsewhere. At any rate, it has been a long time since I have seen a post from a user complaining about an inability to link a gamertag that was specific to his or her account (as opposed to XBox Live problems).

For casual visitors to the site, linking a gamertag is a process which only takes a few seconds. In fact, it takes longer to create a Windows Live ID and then create a BNet account than it does to link a gamertag. Such a trivial thing as linking a gamertag to a BNet account would merely be a 30-second cost of time in order to provide Matchmaking feedback in the place that Bungie's Matchmaking gurus are most likely to see it. I do not foresee this as being a problem. Can you imagine a post from a user in this forum saying, "I only visit BNet every once in a while. I don't feel like linking a gamertag, but I want to post in the Optimatch forum."? I certainly cannot. In the time that it would take a user to post feedback in the Optimatch Forum, he or she could have linked a gamertag. It's not a big deal. This is my same answer to users who "do not wish to" link a gamertag. I cannot imagine having a reason for not linking a gamertag that is so valid that the user should be allowed to post in the Optimatch Forum despite their "not feeling like" linking up. That's like saying that users who don't "feel like" creating a Bungie.net account should be allowed to post on the public forums as a "guest."

You also mentioned not wanting to link a gamertag for privacy reasons. This is a valid concern, and is the precise reason why you can choose to hide your gamertag to the public (click on "Profile Information"). Therefore, not having a linked gamertag for privacy reasons is not a valid reason to allow access to the Optimatch Forum.

Therefore, my answer to your question of whether we should "just stomp on [the above categories of users without linked gamertags] and say, 'No, you can’t participate?'" is a resounding "yes." Considering the ease of linking a gamertag in any of those circumstances, none of the reasons above are valid enough to justify keeping the Optimatch Forum open solely because of them.

To respond to your rant about being sick of complaints about spammers and trolls, I wholly disagree. A lack of meaningful discussion is a problem. If it were not a problem, there would not be at least one topic on the front page of this forum at all times with the title "We need more moderators" or something similar. If it were not a problem, then the Web Team would never have bothered to take the time to create a "Report as spam" button. If it were barely noticeable, this thread would never have been created. If it were not a problem, then Achronos would have shot down the idea of restricting the Optimatch Forum rather than saying that it will "probably" happen sometime in the future.

Is it a "major" problem? Hell no. It is no more of a "major" problem than the respawn system in Halo 3 is a "major" problem. I have said many times in the past that there is no such thing as a "forum emergency" except in extremely limited circumstances, such as stolen moderator accounts or a direct hack of BNet itself. But when Bungie employees try to visit the forums, they express wonder at the high spam level so frequently that, surely, you have to realize that it is a problem in a forum specifically designed to provide feedback to Bungie about Matchmaking playlists. Bungie sure does.

Indeed, ReZ, you are one of the few people who has continued to flatly refuse to acknowledge that spam is even an issue at all. Sure, we have great moderators, but the fact remains that, for whatever reason, the spam level remains high. Do not forget that just a few months ago, a moderator resigned citing (in part) apathy about the high spam level. Now, the "Report" button does a great job of reducing bad posts in other forums, but for a forum where Bungie employees are supposed to be getting actual Community feedback rather than Arial-10-point vomit, further measures can only serve to help, rather than hurt this goal.

I'll respond last to your hyperbolic finale, just above where you quoted me. I don't know if you actually think this or were exaggerating for the sake of argument, but it is most certainly not true. In no way is requiring a linked gamertag "wall[ing the community] in from the internet." I don't think I even need to mention the blatantly obvious fact that this idea would only restrict the Optimatch, and no other forum, from anybody who does not have a linked gamertag. Similarly, I don't think I have to mention that the Optimatch Forum would remain open to view to all, just not to post in. Instead, I'll remind you of the facts that you seem to have forgotten: any human being on the planet Earth can obtain an XBL gold account. A person who does not play XBox Live has no business posting in the Optimatch Forum, as this forum is designed solely to discuss Halo 3 XBox Live Optimatch Playlists. In that sense, the Optimatch Forum is already "walled in," as an off-topic post is against the rules of that forum.

I'll take it a step further: in the sense that you seem to be thinking about, the Bungie.net forums are already "walled off" in their entirety. In other words, the forums are open to view, but to participate with your own opinion, you have to (God forbid!) register for a BNet account. So yeah, it's restricted. But it's no big deal -- just register an account. Well, in the Optimatch Forum, the new rule would be that you have to not only have a BNet account, but that you must prove that you can actually discuss the topic for which the forum is designed. If a user cannot prove that they own an XBL Gold Account, then they can view the discussions all they want, but can't just pop in to say "hey guys, I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I agree." This idea does not "close" the Optimatch Forum, or make it secret, or close off discussion to only the privileged elite for some arbitrary reason. If this idea is a wall from the rest of the internet, then that wall is only a foot high. In every possible sense that you could have meant the statement, the Optimatch Forum and the Community would remain "open."

So I'm sorry that these discussions about improvement of the forums make you "sick." Sometimes, they annoy me too. But spam is a problem here for a whole lot of people, including Bungie employees who are trying to be actively involved in the Community. Discussions about the reduction of spam, flaming, and trolling on the forums themselves are no less valid than the more substantive discussions that are so often destroyed by those same bad posts.

Therefore, I respectfully disagree with your post in its entirety.

[Edited on 12.29.2007 8:54 PM PST]

  • 12.29.2007 7:00 PM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Sorry to take this in maybe an off-topic vein Ses, but I'll offer some personal experience and opinion on this issue. I used to like posting in Optimatch. I even was in NOF's Optimatch group because I'm one of the few "casual" gamers that take the time to try to argue for things in Optimatch. The problem is that the majority of the people that tend to populate the Optimatch forum agree on a lot of things. They are what some would describe as the "hardcore" Halo players. Others call them "MLG". Whatever name you want to use, I would imagine you know who I'm talking about.

They tend to all circle around the forum like vultures looking to throw their opinions at every thread that gets started. Most threads get derailed or just thrown terribly off-topic or turned into flame-fests by typically the same people over and over and over again. One of which just got banned apparently. The problem is, and I've had the same issue as Ses in some regards that if I try to discuss anything with them, it typically only escalates. For them it's not a problem since they are all on newer accounts with unlinked GTs. Ses and I don't have that luxury because we are posting on accounts of note, ones we probably don't feel like getting lengthy ban histories on. And that's the problem. If we get banned, there are consequences. We can't post in the forums and it's on our history. If they get banned, they start a new account to circumvent the ban and it makes no difference in their ban histories since they won't use the accounts long enough to benefit from ban histories. I, much like Ses, just stopped responding to certain people because it's not worth the headache or possible temp-ban.

Optimatch has turned into a forum for only one set of ideals. If you say anything, and I mean anything, to the contrary you will be relentlessly harassed by a wide amount of people all with accounts made less than 1 month ago. With how Optimatch is currently, you can only discuss things if you agree with the perceived "style" of play. If you want an example of what I mean, start a topic talking about how you don't think Team BRs should be weighted as much. It's like the "Bat-signal" to them. I've seen several threads all started by different people all talking about how they think that Team BRs comes up too much in MM. I've also seen the same members go into those threads and degrade and abuse the people in favor of the OP.

Exhibit A
Exhibit B
Exhibit C
Exhibit D

Eh, that's enough, I have about 10 more threads saved but that gets the point across. In a couple of the threads I linked to you can see the OP's feel like they are getting crucified for posting their opinions on Team BRs. And that's just one "buzzword" set of threads that all get that treatment. I can post tons more. The point is that the current Optimatch forum does not promote the discussion of ideas because of the behavior of those in it. Adding the feature of requiring linked gold GTs would do a great job in limiting the amount of people that go in there just to harass people.

On another side note: I thought it was funny how Ses never mentioned anyone by name, and I would imagine the people who he was talking about came out in droves trying to defend themselves and flame anyone who offered something to the contrary.

~B.B.

[Edited on 12.29.2007 8:00 PM PST]

  • 12.29.2007 7:58 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Mythic Member
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I like to Rollick

Posted by: Sexbox
You people just don't understand the situation because most of you probably don't visit the Optimatch forums as much as me, ses, and legend. Ses goes around and calls anyone an alt that differs in opinion from him. Do any of you know Mr. Iceman Assassin? Yup, he called HIM an alt/troll. Anyone here with a long history on this is likely to know Iceman just definitely isn't that.

Calling people trolls is just a sad defense mechanism for him and since he decided to post,


Achronos called iceman a troll so I would say ses is in good company.

And legend was an alt.

[Edited on 12.30.2007 9:23 AM PST]

  • 12.30.2007 9:18 AM PDT

etc etc/glaringly obvious/and so on, and such <=Not redundant!
Posted by: Cr4ne Style
Taxes do nothing to affect the share of wealth, since taxes are only applied to income.

So that's not even a part of the conversation at all, so it's pointless talking about it....

"for a "best" moral to exist, there must exist the "best" moral base. If the base of morality varies from location to location, culture to culture...then there can't be an absolute moral..

Posted by: Sexbox
You people just don't understand the situation because most of you probably don't visit the Optimatch forums as much as me, ses, and legend. Ses goes around and calls anyone an alt that differs in opinion from him. Do any of you know Mr. Iceman Assassin? Yup, he called HIM an alt/troll. Anyone here with a long history on this is likely to know Iceman just definitely isn't that.

Calling people trolls is just a sad defense mechanism for him and since he decided to post, Mr BerserkerBarage. They both even openly admitted that anyone who uses the Webmaster avatar is "clearly an alt" Hell, even in this thread he called legend an alt because he's a month old account who knows how to use the search button, Like Bungie.net was the first to create such a thing. I love it.

You see, I post in almost every forum (Halo 1 and 2 vista don't tickle my fancy) and when I saw this lame excuse for a "excuse my ignorance" thread I sent it over to TFL because it's obvious he created this thread with a greater purpose in mind then just trying to understand what happens to people who have alternate accounts. He's been here for years and do not know that just having an alternate account isn't against the rules but that bypassing a blacklist with an alt is and the offenders are dealt with harshly? A little strange to me but whatever. This is clear to me after his comment to Mr. Recon Number 54.

How evilcam handled this situation just shows bad moderating. Legend didn't break any rules at all and has been an obvious good member for the month of him being here. Look at this thread by him. He actually worked with the moderator ash55 on it. I'm sure Mr. ash55 doesn't just go around and hang around with "trolls"

I just hope Legend reported his situation to a higher authority because what happened here is just ridiculous.

*prepares to be banned by evilcam for being an "obvious" troll* Obvious troll.. what does that even mean Mr. Cameron?

and earlier in this thread:
Posted by: Sexbox
Squidward, how many times have you gone around and accused me, legend, 104fred, and countless members alternate accounts in the Optimatch forum?


i have stopped responding to sexbox's post, but i will make an exception to address this.
here is a quote from sexbox: "Ses goes around and calls anyone an alt that differs in opinion from him. "

huh? what? have you read my posts in the forums?
in this thread i have not made any of the accusations that you have mentioned. in other threads i have mentioned that i think that a few guys with brand new alt accounts, no gamertags linked, and who seem to post as a team since they seem to never disagree or fail to post with one another are alts. i by no means call anyone an alt just because they disagree with my claims. and, i do not care if people have alt accounts. i am only concerned when people use alt accounts in an attempt to avoid a bnet ban.

when people have about 25 pages of bnet posting history with an account that is only two weeks old, when these same people seem to know all sorts of things about bnet regulars spanning over the years, when these same people frequently violate forum rules, and when these same forum members have accounts that pop up the same time that another bnet account gets blacklisted, it causes me to suppose that these posters may be alt accounts attempting to avoid a bnet ban. i am not going to name any specific users, but some of them have names that are nearly identical to other bnet accounts (in some cases, the only difference is the last letter of the bnet account). the names only differ in as little as one character, yet the posts by both accounts share countless similarities. and, in some cases, the activity of one of the accounts lasts exactly the amount of time that the other account appears to have been on a 3 day ban.

those are the kinds of accounts that i suspect are alt accounts made to avoid a ban. i do not think that anyone who disagees with me is an alt trying to avoid a ban, and i surely have not posted any charges along those lines. i certainly do not think that iceman assassin or spartan104fred are alt accounts trying to avoid bans, and i surely do not remember posting that they are. unlike the guys with brand new accounts with no histories, spartan and iceman have established bnet histories, so i cannot fathom why anyone would think that spartan's or iceman's accounts are alts used just to avoid a ban.

it looks to me like some bnet users who bring down the quality of threads by routinely violating forum rules are creating alt accounts to keep up their disruptive behavior. i wanted to know what others think about this, so i started this thread in this forum.

as for sexbox's defense of first legend, this is not a surprise. none of us have access to first legend's posts right now, but if and when they become accessible to us, it will not be hard to find loads of posts that he made that violate forum rules. sexbox seems impressed by a single thread that first legend posted in. that thread did little to impress me for a number of reasons. for starters, it was a duplicate thread about a topic that already had dozens of threads dedicated to it. i do not know about the rest of you, but starting the bazillionth thread asking to turn team hardcore into mlg is hardly worthy of praise. if sexbox is upset about the banning of a brand new account that broke many forum rules, then he would be wise to look at the many inappropriate posts made by the banned offender. to blame the mods for acting poorly seems like a huge stretch given the posting habits of the banned poster.

sexbox stated, "I just hope Legend reported his situation to a higher authority because what happened here is just ridiculous." for once, i agree with sexbox. i would be thrilled if a bnet higher-up looked into first legend's bnet account and posting history. such a person whould see that the mods are doing a good job of eliminating inappropriate posts from the forums

[Edited on 12.30.2007 10:03 AM PST]

  • 12.30.2007 9:36 AM PDT
Subject: Question For Mods About Bans And Alternate Bnet Accounts
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I personally am for more regulation of Opti-Match, however personally I think this thread was made because a certain user was angry that other users were disagreeing with him, and none of them had linked gamertags. I rarely see very inflammatory posts in optimatch, and neither do I see very spammish posts in the forum.

I think there are problems (IE people who have active XBL gamertags and forgot the WLID password), people who do not want to link their gamer tag (there were cases of gamer tag theft, if I remember correctly a few months back) etc. So you could be losing valuable feedback. IMO the true solution, is that when Bungie wants to make a change to Halo 3, they put an in game poll and look at the results from there.

I feel that simply because one member has created lots of anger against him (from other forum users) and does not wish for those people to continue to disagree with him, there should not be a rule that you need an XBL Gold account, because the internet is not a perfect place. Technology/personal limitations could limit the ability of 100% of XBL gamers to post in Opti-Match. The real fix is to provide more incentive for being a site member longer, and harsher bans/title revokings based on "Elitism". Not to mention, people may create new Gamer Tags and the tag on their B.Net account may fade into oblivion, or just become a "Silver" account, so basically they would have to create a new "Alternate account" for that gamer tag.

[Edited on 12.30.2007 10:54 AM PST]

  • 12.30.2007 10:40 AM PDT

etc etc/glaringly obvious/and so on, and such <=Not redundant!
Posted by: Cr4ne Style
Taxes do nothing to affect the share of wealth, since taxes are only applied to income.

So that's not even a part of the conversation at all, so it's pointless talking about it....

"for a "best" moral to exist, there must exist the "best" moral base. If the base of morality varies from location to location, culture to culture...then there can't be an absolute moral..

Posted by: xfire grunt
...personally I think this thread was made because a certain user was angry that other users were disagreeing with him, and none of them had linked gamertags.

I feel that simply because one member has created lots of anger against him (from other forum users) and does not wish for those people to continue to disagree with him, there should not be a rule that you need an XBL Gold account, because the internet is not a perfect place.


xfire, are you serious? could you please drop the folk-psychological bunk and stop dreaming up hidden motives behind my posts?

if you think that i started this thread because i was upset that people disagee with me in the threads, then you are much mistaken. not only that, but i do not know how anyone who has seen any of my posts over the life of my bnet account could reach such a conclusion. people disagree with me all of the time, and i disagree with others all of the time. that is how the forums work and i am just fine with that.

i have never stated that bungie should change the forum rules in optimatch because my feelings are hurt because people disagree with me and do not like me in the threads. you have no reason at all to suppose that i have. i have not made that claim, i have not made any claims that resemble that claim, nor have i acted in any way that would lead to someone to believe that i feel that way.

xfire, you have been aroung here long enough to see this. that someone disagrees with me or states that he dislikes me is no bother to me. i am similarly not bothered when people put nasty things about me in their signatures, or even when they start bnet groups dedicated to sharing their feelings about me with others. i started this thread for the exact reason that i gave in the opening thread.

you see, my response to your post is in line with how i tend to operate in the threads. a person makes claims that i think are false and unwarranted, i disagree with them, i point out why i think that the claims are bunk, and that is the end of it. i do not claim that you are an alt account trying to avoid a ban, i do not say mean things about you, and i surely do not ask for bungie to change the forums because you made whack guesses about me.

  • 12.30.2007 11:15 AM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: sesquipadelian
Posted by: xfire grunt
...personally I think this thread was made because a certain user was angry that other users were disagreeing with him, and none of them had linked gamertags.

I feel that simply because one member has created lots of anger against him (from other forum users) and does not wish for those people to continue to disagree with him, there should not be a rule that you need an XBL Gold account, because the internet is not a perfect place.


xfire, are you serious? could you please drop the folk-psychological bunk and stop dreaming up hidden motives behind my posts?

if you think that i started this thread because i was upset that people disagee with me in the threads, then you are much mistaken. not only that, but i do not know how anyone who has seen any of my posts over the life of my bnet account could reach such a conclusion. people disagree with me all of the time, and i disagree with others all of the time. that is how the forums work and i am just fine with that.

i have never stated that bungie should change the forum rules in optimatch because my feelings are hurt because people disagree with me and do not like me in the threads. you have no reason at all to suppose that i have. i have not made that claim, i have not made any claims that resemble that claim, nor have i acted in any way that would lead to someone to believe that i feel that way.

xfire, you have been aroung here long enough to see this. that someone disagrees with me or states that he dislikes me is no bother to me. i am similarly not bothered when people put nasty things about me in their signatures, or even when they start bnet groups dedicated to sharing their feelings about me with others. i started this thread for the exact reason that i gave in the opening thread.

you see, my response to your post is in line with how i tend to operate in the threads. a person makes claims that i think are false and unwarranted, i disagree with them, i point out why i think that the claims are bunk, and that is the end of it. i do not claim that you are an alt account trying to avoid a ban, i do not say mean things about you, and i surely do not ask for bungie to change the forums because you made whack guesses about me.


Sesquidpadellian, then why do you repeatedly point out that The First Legend and Sexbot are alternate accounts, this thread is only created after repeated disagreement with them (which arose over MLG disagreements), when Opti-Match has been plagued by these problems for years. This is alll I am saying.

I haven't been here for very long (Just One Year), but I personally don't see how even if they were Alternate Accounts, how that was a violation of the "Rule Book", as it is only a violation IF their main accounts had been banned.

You did not read the rest of my post (or you simply chose too quote the one part which was against you). It was not against you. I was merely pointing out that Opti-Match is NOT the Halo 3 forum, and most "Alternate Accounts" do not seem to be making the forum into an uncoherent mess, so I personally do not see the reason for the removal of non XBL - Gold accounts, especially with the features I pointed out before. Because I have been here for a "moderate" amount of time, I have seen several arguments between you and all of the people you accuse of being "Alternate Accounts". I was merely pointing out that this should not cloud your judgement. The wrongs of the few should NOT negatively effect the many. And I am still in the question about the aforementioned "Wrongs". I was pointing out that simply because The First Legend and Sexbot repeatedly disagree with you, should not influence your judgement AGAINST them in this alternate account thing.

I personally think that the XBL Gold is NOT a solution, as for the reasons I mentioned (not to mention, if you get a new XBL account you need to get a new B.NET account the way things currently work, and there are numerous users that have an XBL account with a different WLID. The only way to fix this would be to allow a different WLID to be associated with a BNET account or a different XBL ID to be associated with a BNET account). Really, I was pointing out that just because 2 accounts are repeatedly disagreeing with you & repeatedly agreeing does not mean they are "alternate accounts" not does it mean that "they should not be allowed to speak".

Personally I think BNET doesn't offer enough benefits for users to hold onto one BNET account at the current time. IMO there ought to be more benefits. If XBL Gold was perfect I would suggest that be used to make "Account Bannings" more effective.

Really I know I just walked into a minefield (there is no way to really take sides in this debate) so W/E.


[Edited on 12.30.2007 12:38 PM PST]

  • 12.30.2007 12:34 PM PDT

etc etc/glaringly obvious/and so on, and such <=Not redundant!
Posted by: Cr4ne Style
Taxes do nothing to affect the share of wealth, since taxes are only applied to income.

So that's not even a part of the conversation at all, so it's pointless talking about it....

"for a "best" moral to exist, there must exist the "best" moral base. If the base of morality varies from location to location, culture to culture...then there can't be an absolute moral..

xfire, i quoted the section of your post where you made claims about me. that is all that i quoted and that is all that i mentioned. you made various other claims about your feelings about how access to posting should or should not be in optimatch, and i have nothing to say about this. your claim made it look like i am asking for strong changes to limit access to optimatch, and your claim made it look like i am doing so out of some sort of anger toward particular bnet members. well, you are wrong on both accounts (no pun intended). i am not asking for these changes (if i remember correctly, someone else suggested them and all that i did was say that i did not dislike the idea), and i am surely not asking for changes because of a couple of guys following me around to disagree with me who happen to have brand new accounts.

please, as i already pointed out, take a look at my first post in this thread. i explained the exact reason why i opened this thread and i explained my exact concerns. you making wild guesses about why you think i posted what i have posted is nothing more than folk-psychological hogwash. my main concern is simple and straightforward: i wonder what steps, if any, mods and bungie reps take when they ban an account and they suspect that an alt account is being used to avoid the bnet ban. people have disagreed with me in the forums for years, and people have posted rude things about me in the forums the whole time. my feelings do not get hurt and i surely do not go to great lengths to ask bungie to change the forums to spare me from having people disagree with me.

if you think that any of my actual questions (the ones that i actually asked) are inappropriate, then, by all means, explain why. if you think that any of the claims that i have made (the ones that i actually made) are either false or unwarranted, then explain how. but, if you are just going to make blind guesses about what you think i might be feeling and how you suppose that my emotions may motivate me to make various posts, then we have little to discuss since you are just expressing your fantastic beliefs.

  • 12.30.2007 1:13 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Posted by: xfire grunt
I rarely see very inflammatory posts in optimatch, and neither do I see very spammish posts in the forum.
I disagree. All of the following are taken from the first page of the Optimatch Forum:

Example 1
Example 2
Example 3
Example 4
Example 5
Example 6
Example 7
Example 8
Example 9
Example 10

I could go on, but hopefully I don't really need to.

  • 12.30.2007 2:36 PM PDT

etc etc/glaringly obvious/and so on, and such <=Not redundant!
Posted by: Cr4ne Style
Taxes do nothing to affect the share of wealth, since taxes are only applied to income.

So that's not even a part of the conversation at all, so it's pointless talking about it....

"for a "best" moral to exist, there must exist the "best" moral base. If the base of morality varies from location to location, culture to culture...then there can't be an absolute moral..

Posted by: x Foman123 x
Posted by: xfire grunt
I rarely see very inflammatory posts in optimatch, and neither do I see very spammish posts in the forum.
I disagree. All of the following are taken from the first page of the Optimatch Forum:

Example 1
Example 2
Example 3
Example 4
Example 5
Example 6
Example 7
Example 8
Example 9
Example 10

I could go on, but hopefully I don't really need to.


after just looking at the front page you have been able to find loads of inappropriate posts. it does not take much effort. and, a handful of those contain inappropriate posts by a brand new alt account that involve rude comments aimed at particular users. inappropriate posts that attack other users do not do anything to advance discussions about improving h3 mm, so i am surprised that anyone is riled up by us pointing out what a nuisance such posters can be (and are in so many posts in so many threads in so many forums).

  • 12.30.2007 2:50 PM PDT

be my friend

nevermind.

[Edited on 12.30.2007 9:29 PM PST]

  • 12.30.2007 9:27 PM PDT

People shouldn't judge the monkey avatar. It's a default avatar so it can be given to new and alternate accounts.

  • 12.30.2007 9:40 PM PDT

etc etc/glaringly obvious/and so on, and such <=Not redundant!
Posted by: Cr4ne Style
Taxes do nothing to affect the share of wealth, since taxes are only applied to income.

So that's not even a part of the conversation at all, so it's pointless talking about it....

"for a "best" moral to exist, there must exist the "best" moral base. If the base of morality varies from location to location, culture to culture...then there can't be an absolute moral..

Posted by: Snowman trapRdie
So let me get all of this straight, if I posted like someone else(english doesn't have much variation), I would get called an alt?

You mentioned "particular alts" and so on, which leads me to agree with xfire that this thread is part of an ongoing vendetta between yourself and other posters, not a real Q and A thread as there are dozens of other ways to get this info, without waiting on an answer from other people.


no, as i have stated before, nobody assumes that a person is using an alt account just because the account is new and just because the posts are in the english language. what we are talking about is persons who are banned for violating forum rules then posting on alt accounts in an attempt to avoid the ban. and, in many cases that we have seen (we cannot look at the posts now since the accounts are all blacklisted) the new accounts have many similarities with the banned older accounts, right down to violating the same rules and getting banned again.

you talked about me mentioning particular alt accounts. if you look over the thread, you will see that i did not come into this thread slinging mud and accusing particular accounts of being alts created to avoid a ban. it just so happens that two brand new accounts popped up and those same two brand new accounts violated forum rules and those same two brand new accounts were banned. i opened this thread to find out what happens when it looks like people are using alt accounts in an attempt to avoid a ban and to discuss this phenomenon with other bnet users.

just like xfire, you can jump to any conclusion that you would like. you guys can make all of the guesses and assumptions that you would like. have at it. but, this is a legitimate thread and it is in the appropriate location. i did not open this thread because my feelings are hurt because someone was mean to me in the forums. that has happened for years. people saying mean things to me and to others is nothing new. what does seem new is that brand new accounts become active the same day that others get banned, and those brand new accounts get banned, and, what do you know? other brand new accounts pop up and become active again. and, once the temporary ban expires from the first account, guess what? the activity on both newer accounts ends entirely the very same day.

this is what many of us have seen, and this is based on looking at posting history that we can all access in the threads. we have noticed a pattern and we are talking about it. the pattern and behavior that we are discussing even avoids bnet accounts that violate the rules and attack other bnet posters. why is our discussion so strange? why is it so hard for you and xfire to see that we are talking about a strange form of posting behavior? given that the evidence seems to indicate that our suspicions concerning some users are accurate, why do you instead assume that i have some sort of hidden vindictive agenda?

i opened this thread asking about a kind of behavior, persons posting on alt accounts in an attempt to avoid bnet bans. since this thread opened (which has not been long at all), two different brand new accounts started making inappropriate posts and were banned. since brand new accounts have even been seen in this tiny thread disrupting discussions by making personal attacks (and this is not much of a problem in this thread, but it happens all of the time in optimatch), it looks like our concerns expressed here are well warranted.

  • 12.31.2007 6:46 AM PDT

MY LOVE FOR YOU IS LIKE A TRUCK...
Posted by: Langley
--on another note, I think MLG Chewhatever is an idiot.

Posted by: Achronos
There is a reason I am user ID 1 and my account creation date is before this site came online.

Don't bother with him Recon, he doesn't care nor will he ever. The first day *this* account (Snowman) was made he goes after Jaysum and TFM talking about how they are an elitist group. I didn't know about the TFM for years after I joined B.net, and really not until I met up with Pezza. I know exactly who this person is because of the nomenclature of their posting. People select certain words repeatedly and this person is no different.

Just like if Foman or I tried to use ALTs people would be able to pick up on it right away by the way we post, this person is no different. Even if I'm wrong, and I hardly ever am, your posting in the Jaysum thread is close enough to rule-breaking to warrant action. Oh, and I just realized that he makes posts attacking Jay and TFM and then doesn't post again until yesterday. A nice 20-day window of no activity. And now they are posting again after certain circumstances that could be circumstantial, but I doubt it.

~B.B.

[Edited on 12.31.2007 9:26 AM PST]

  • 12.31.2007 9:20 AM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • of 4