Halo 1 & 2 for PC
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Subject: Halo 1280x1024 lag
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I purchased and installed an ATI Radeon 9250 256 MB video card for my hp P4 3.00 Ghz 512 MB RAM PC. I tried playing halo on 1280x1024 in the campaign it still lagged a lot. Why is this happening?

  • 01.08.2005 8:49 AM PDT
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Well, I'll give you a short lesson with graphics cards (this goes for anyone else who has trouble with them).

Basically, it's not about the memory a graphics card has. See, you could slap 512 MB of GDDR3 RAM, which is super fast, onto an old, say, 9250 chipset, and it wouldn't run crap. Why?

Chipset: This is the integral part of a graphics card. If you think of your graphics card as a mini motherboard, think of the chipset as the CPU. It performs all of the 'thinking' that your card does. In essence, this is the most important part of a graphics card. The newest chipsets on the market, the Radeon x850, Radeon x800XT Platinum, and the nVidia GeForce 6800 Ultra, all use an awesome chipset. That way they can process information super fast. A chipset that is about 3 years old, such as the 9250, may have lots of RAM, but its processor just can't handle demanding apps. The chipset's speed is determined in MHz. Anything 350 or above will perform very well, but you can get by with about 200 or 250.

RAM: RAM stores information for the chipset to perform later - just like on your computer. RAM is important, but only as much as your processor can handle. An old 9250 is really no good with 256MB, you might as well get the 128MB version, because that's about how much it will process anyway. However, in uber-powerful cards that cost over 1000, up to 512MB and beyond of memory is used, and not only is that memory expansive, but it's also super fast. The other thing that is important with memory is it's data transfer, also mesured in MHz. If you have a new card, the RAM is dual channel, so the speed is measured by multiplying the speed by two. In the case of the Radeon x800XT, the speed is 1000MHz (2x500 MHz). Also notice that its core clock speed is 500 MHz. You never want the clock speed to be much more or much less than half of the memory speed. There shouldn't be a gap of more than 150 MHz in either direction - otherwise the RAM is too fast, and the speed won't do the card any good, or the processor is too fast and won't be able to get data as fast. We call these no-no cards :)

Interface: AGP, PCI, or PCI Express? That is the question. Old PCI cards use a PCI slot, common on most computers. The data transfer between the motherboard and the card is minimal - I highly disapprove this type of graphics card. AGP slots nowadays are all 8x, although they do support 4x for older boards. This is a good transfer rate, and has been the standard. PCI Express is about a year old. It allows fast data transfer, however, as of now, AGP vs. PCIe board tests show that both have the exact same performance. That is to say, the Radeon x800XT AGP version and PCIe version are both equally awesome. That will change as boards become more demanding, but motherboards with PCIe slots cost about $100 more than those with AGP, and the PCIe cards cost about $30 more than AGP cards. MY suggestion is to stick with AGP for right now - if you plan to build or buy a computer, get the AGP slot and hook it up with a top of the line card, because it'll last you till your next comp.

Basically, the 9250 shouldn't run above 800x600. Set it to that, and you won't lag so much.

[Edited on 1/8/2005 8:45:15 PM]

  • 01.08.2005 9:19 AM PDT
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Heyyo,

rofl, 800x600? hells no. Check my sig, that's my stats. Here's a timedemo from me:

For further information, please visit the timedemo FAQ at: http://halo.bungie.net/site/halo/features/hpcperformancefaq.h tml
Date / Time: 30/12/2004 7:52:37 PM (277829ms)
1700MHz, 1024MB, 128M ATI Radeon 9600 PRO (DeviceID=0x4150) Driver=6.14.10.6444 Shader=1.4
D:\Games\Halo\halo.exe -use14 -novideo -timedemo (Version=1.0.6.612)
Frames=4700
Total Time=118.37s
Average frame rate=39.71fps
Below 5fps= 21% (time) 0% (frames) (25.025s spent in 11 frames)
Below 10fps= 21% (time) 0% (frames)
Below 15fps= 22% (time) 0% (frames)
Below 20fps= 24% (time) 1% (frames)
Below 25fps= 26% (time) 2% (frames)
Below 30fps= 31% (time) 5% (frames)
Below 40fps= 48% (time) 21% (frames)
Below 50fps= 66% (time) 40% (frames)
Below 60fps= 79% (time) 58% (frames)
###Sound Options###
Hardware Acceleration= No
Sound Quality= Normal
Environmental Sound= No
Sound Variety= Medium
###Video Options###
Resolution= 640 x 480
Refresh rate= 120 Hz
Framerate throttle= No Vsync
Specular= No
Shadows= No
Decals= Yes
Particles= Off
Texture Quality= High


As you can see, my average framerate was only 39.91F/S which's pretty weak actually....

  • 01.08.2005 12:25 PM PDT
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Maybe I was a bit optimistic :)

But ya, the 9250...you'd have to turn nearly everything off for it to run smoothly. I think that a 9600XT is a good buy, it's about 170, and comes with half life 2, which it runs nicely. Anything below that will have trouble, especially a 9250.

My advice is to take it back and say that it sucks and you want a refund. Take a look at their return policy to make sure you can somehow return it.

  • 01.08.2005 12:37 PM PDT
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sexy legs davis is -blam!- smart....all i have to say

  • 01.08.2005 1:19 PM PDT
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should I return the card and get a better one?

  • 01.08.2005 2:27 PM PDT
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Try it, anything less than the 9600 chipset will lag, probably even on absolutely low settings. Check their returns policy, though.

What type of slot do you have? Are you using a PCI slot or an AGP slot? The latter will get you much better cards, as PCI slots have a terrible data transfer rate (ie, don't even spend money on a graphics card, because it will disappoint you).

If you have an AGP slot, it's important to know how fast it is. Go into AGPUtil (almost all computers have this if they have an AGP slot) it should be 4x or 8x. If this is true, and you are looking for a cheap card, get the 9600XT - I have it and it runs well for a bargain card.

  • 01.08.2005 2:51 PM PDT
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I bought an ATi All in Wonder 9600 128 MB and it was AGP but it doesn't fit. I tried over and over again and it wouldn't fit!!! Ok so how do I know if I have a PCI express slot? I am assuming that I don't have one. This was the only card that I could find that were only PCI.
PNY GeForce FX 5500 128MB DDR PCI Graphics Card

Also: Would just sticking with the built in graphics accelerator (128 MB) or should I get the above.

[Edited on 1/8/2005 9:18:27 PM]

  • 01.08.2005 9:03 PM PDT
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DEscribe, in detail, the slot that you have for your graphics card. Is it offset, with a little notch/tab on the one side. That's AGP, and you have to push a bit hard for it to go in, but comfortably hard. If it's PCI it's probably white. AGP is brown, red, you name it. There should only be one.

Describe how it fits (or it doesn't, do the slots on the bottom not correspond, or is the card too long, etc.), and the slots you have, and I can help.

Nice buy, the All in Wonder is a cool series, you can hook it up to a tv/cable source to record video like TiVO. Hmm, the onboard graphics accelerators usually are pretty poor, but I haven't heard one that is 128MB.

  • 01.08.2005 9:24 PM PDT
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Heyyo,

yeah, usually AIW's are for multimedia, and not so much for gaming. So by default it'll always preform just a bit worse than mine, but that's not life-threatning, more lik 5F/S.

run some timedemos, and post here what appears in the "timedemo.txt" for help on how to do this google this: "halo timedemo" and you'll find tons of sites that tell you how it works. ;)

  • 01.09.2005 2:29 AM PDT
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Well it's black/brown (whatever) and has a little tab thingy at the end. The card that I bought was too long. When the metal part with the ports on it was pushed as far as it could, it still wouldn't fit. If you need more information about it, just ask.

[Edited on 1/9/2005 2:07:04 PM]

  • 01.09.2005 2:06 PM PDT
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Well, that's an AGP slot. Is your card designed for AGP or PCI? Also, do you have a mini-tower case? That means that you have little or no space for anything. If anything, take your pc and the card to the place you bought it from and ask them to help you install it.

  • 01.09.2005 2:15 PM PDT
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Yeah I think I'll take it to best buy but my mother won't allow me to have someone else install it because she thinks it will cost a lot. Do you have any idea how much they charge at Bestbuy to install things such as a video card

  • 01.09.2005 2:59 PM PDT
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Sexy Legs Davis.....What do you do for your job i have to know....

  • 01.09.2005 3:41 PM PDT
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Another thing that may help is that when I was reading the instructions for installing the video card, it said: search for an AGP slot under your device manager. I looked in every folder but I couldn't find one. I'm thinking of just sticking with my 128 MB graphics accelerator. Here's a report type thing that I found of my computer (with only internet explorer running)

Intel(R) Graphics Media Accelerator Driver Report


Report Date: 01/11/2005
Report Time[hr:mm:ss]: 19:22:37
Driver Version: 6.14.10.3889
Operating System: Windows NT* 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2
Default Language: English
DirectX* Version: 9.0
Physical Memory: 503 MB
Min. Graphics Memory: 8 MB
Max. Graphics Memory: 224 MB
Graphics Memory in use: 9 MB
Processor: x86
Processor Speed: 3000 MHZ
Vendor ID: not telling
Device ID: not telling
Device Revision: 4


* Output Devices Connected to Graphics Accelerator *

Active Monitors:1

  • 01.11.2005 7:30 PM PDT
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Heyyo,

Hmm, Intergrated graphics... not as bad as pci, but still bad. Usually they just do the bare minimum, and not high quality stuff that most ati and nvidia based videocards do...

It's not hard to install yourself. Just push down the tab first, and then grab onto something metal for a second (like a doorknob or something.. this is to discharge any static electricity on you, cause just a bit could zap those special cmos chips... and that would suck), and push out the metal tab and then slip it into place, pull up that little locking tab on the slot, screw in the metal plate, and start up your comp and hope for the best. ;)

  • 01.11.2005 9:31 PM PDT
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Another thing that may help is that when I was reading the instructions for installing the video card, it said: search for an AGP slot under your device manager. I looked in every folder but I couldn't find one. I'm thinking of just sticking with my 128 MB graphics accelerator. Here's a report type thing that I found of my computer (with only internet explorer running)

(from an earlier post of mine in this topic)
How come I can't find it? It's the first instruction on the booklet. It says to find the AGP slot under device manager.

Also, I found something about a PCI express slot. If I do have one, where is it located. Here's a picture of the system devices thing I was talking about:

http://www.hostima.net/greenxpanda/System%20devices..bmp

(You'll need to use another program to be able to see it.)

[Edited on 1/12/2005 7:57:09 PM]

  • 01.12.2005 4:57 PM PDT
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Well, that one slot that isn't AGP is offset from the others right...then it's PCIExpress. How old is your computer??? Must be pretty new, eh?

PCI Express utilizes the faster bus speed. Get the x700 Pro if you don't wanna spend much $ on one. I'm getting a Gigabyte Radeon x800xt, then again, it's for agp so its significantly cheaper than the pcix ones.

  • 01.12.2005 5:21 PM PDT
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so the slot that I thought was AGP turns out to be PCI express huh?

Well, that one slot that isn't AGP is offset from the others right...then it's PCIExpress. How old is your computer??? Must be pretty new, eh?
-Sexy Legs Davis

Well what do you mean by offset? It's next to the other regular PCI slots. The AGP card I bought is too long. Did you see the link that I provided? It says something on there about PCI express yet I couldn't find anything that had to do with AGP.

[Edited on 1/14/2005 10:31:53 PM]

  • 01.12.2005 7:58 PM PDT
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Anyone want to help me?........

  • 01.14.2005 10:32 PM PDT
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See picture at :- http://www.gdm.or.jp/photo/2004/0310/01.jpg

The slot on the LEFT is a pci-express 16x graphics card slot...
The 2 slots next are pci-express 1x normal card slots
The 3 slots on the right are normal PCI card slots

See picture at:- http://www.tweak.pl/ilustracje/kt333_kt400/lite/agp.jpg

The 2 lower white slots are old PCI card slots
The brown top slot is an AGP card slot.


There are SOME agp cards that are not compatible with older agp slots however 99.9% of the time there is no problem.

  • 01.15.2005 1:58 PM PDT
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I checked at hp.com and it says that it's PCI express. PCI express looks kind of like AGP right?

  • 01.15.2005 4:50 PM PDT
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see what I thought was an AGP slot turns out that it was PCI but now I'm confused cuz it doesn't look like either of the pictures.

  • 01.15.2005 4:52 PM PDT
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Right ok. Check the box of your graphics card. SOMEWHERE it has to say PCI, AGP or PCI-E. The 9600 is not a PCI-E card, I'll tell you that for a fact. All ATi's PCI-E cards begin x-#00, for example x300 or x700. There is a 99.9% chance that your motherboard only has one AGP slot, if any. So if all the slots look the same I'm willing to bet they're all PCI. Your comp would need to be Very New and fairly expensive too in order to have a load of PCI-E slots instead of the standard PCI and AGP combo.

So, GP, are all the slots the same, or do you have one different from all the rest?
- If you have one different, it's likely your AGP, in which case you need to basically try harder to get the card in. You might have to loosen screws or clips on your case, and don't forget to move that bit of white plastic (the locking clip) to fit your card all the way in.
- If they all look the same then umm sounds like you need to get a PCI card or better yet a new motherboard which deffinately has an AGP slot.

PCI-E is cutting-edge technology, it's expensive and unecessary. Bare in mind every game in the market was designed and made to run on today's hardware, not tomorrows, so something like a 9800 or x800 series from ATi will run Anything perfectly, and they're both AGP.

  • 01.15.2005 6:04 PM PDT
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Yeah, in about a year or two PCI-e will have cards that will surpass AGP 8x cards in power, simply because the data transfer is so damn fast. However, the mobos for PCI-e are expensive, as is the card. A Gigabyte x800xt is 50 bucks cheaper for the agp version. However, if you have PCI-e, it will be utilized shortly...just not now.

  • 01.15.2005 6:29 PM PDT

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