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This topic has moved here: Subject: Needles
  • Subject: Needles
Subject: Needles
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Needler out guns a BR what the hell are bungie doing.

  • 01.23.2008 6:07 AM PDT
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Posted by: R3LOAD V1
Needler out guns a BR what the hell are bungie doing.

You know the stick on the left of your control pad yeah? Something pretty crazy happens when you press right or left on it. Give it a try.

  • 01.23.2008 7:49 AM PDT

Try strafing and jumping. Then pretend you can pretend it beats a BR. Still, it was an awesome gun in CE, and is in 3.

  • 01.23.2008 8:39 AM PDT
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Posted by: chickenlittle
Try strafing and jumping. Then pretend you can pretend it beats a BR. Still, it was an awesome gun in CE, and is in 3.
In campaign, that is.

  • 01.23.2008 2:01 PM PDT

Posted by: Master Kim
Posted by: chickenlittle
Try strafing and jumping. Then pretend you can pretend it beats a BR. Still, it was an awesome gun in CE, and is in 3.
In campaign, that is.

I still use it in multiplayer in Halo 3. I destroy with it. In Halo CE, I use it in longest and Campaign.

  • 01.25.2008 7:54 AM PDT
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Yeah thats only if you stand still of course the needler would kill you easily like that, if you straff or move about its more difficult. Its much more better and well balanced now.

Also why did you post this on the Halo 1 forum?

  • 01.25.2008 10:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: chickenlittle
I still use it in multiplayer in Halo 3. I destroy with it. In Halo CE, I use it in longest and Campaign.
You can call a Needler "awesome" in Halo 3 for the same reason you can call an Energy Sword "awesome."

  • 01.25.2008 7:31 PM PDT
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Posted by: Master Kim
Posted by: chickenlittle
I still use it in multiplayer in Halo 3. I destroy with it. In Halo CE, I use it in longest and Campaign.
You can call a Needler "awesome" in Halo 3 for the same reason you can call an Energy Sword "awesome."


It's very purpose specific. Coridoors, retreating enemies, quick/suprise kills, key land grabs in the initial seconds of the game. It's also a good supressor in Narrows. I always tell people not to try and repurpose a weapon for their own needs and then complain when it falls short.

  • 01.25.2008 10:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: Sangeili Warrior
It's very purpose specific. Coridoors, retreating enemies, quick/suprise kills, key land grabs in the initial seconds of the game. It's also a good supressor in Narrows. I always tell people not to try and repurpose a weapon for their own needs and then complain when it falls short.
Allow me to elaborate: The Needler was a weapon doomed from the time it came out in the first game. It was the easiest weapon to dodge in multiplayer; it was too difficult to consistently lodge enough needles into an enemy to kill them. It only worked in the campaign because the AI wasn't smart to keep side-stepping them. In Halo 2, Bungie again tried to make it a decent weapon that would actually do something, but dual-wielding didn't do anything for multiplayer. In Halo 3, again, to prove the Needler's worth, they made it inconsistently over powered. Is this what Bungie wants, a weapon that fires projectiles that home onto players (I always thought the tracking feature was somewhat dumbed down) which kills people faster than they can react? It wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't so inconsistent. It's still easy to dodge, but those Needles will -blam!- you so easily. Perhaps you're right, and it is very purpose specific. Still, I don't find much fun or balance in that. :/

  • 01.26.2008 5:58 AM PDT
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I don't dig balance mate. There should be the superior weapon that everybody wants.

Carbine is better for assaulting then battle rifle.
Battle rifle is good for campaign with grunt birthday party because when you melee in the middle of the burst, you can save 2 rounds. This means you can get 144 headshots out of a battle rifle. Sweet.
Covie sniper for taking on multiple targets; human sniper for taking on an individual or two. Up to 3.
Fuel rod for just kicking the can, rockets for vehicles and Hunters.
Shot gun for point blank, swords for the longer range of close combat.

Basically, I think each weapon should have its nitch. The needler kicks the can if you get a bit of a lead going with it. Now... you do that with other guns, so quit complaining about it's lack of tracking. It's not an aimbot.

Balance reduces the range of skill between players, and makes for no need of specialization. I was the heavy ordinance guy in CE and Halo 2. I'm teaching myself spartan laser for Halo 3 still. I want to focus on a style and go for it, not be as good with an SMG as a Plasma Rifle because they're balanced. To be good with a plasma rifle, you should have to have strong leading/anticipation skills. Not anymore. That's balancing for ya.

  • 01.29.2008 12:54 AM PDT
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Posted by: Rhudebaker
I don't dig balance mate. There should be the superior weapon that everybody wants.
There's a difference between balancing game play and making the weapons equal. We don't necessarily want to make them equal, 'kay? Going around and picking up better weapons on the map is fine and all, but it would be just as good if we spawned with a weapon that could kill enemies with the better weapons if we were skilled enough with it.
Posted by: Rhudebaker
Carbine is better for assaulting then battle rifle.
Battle rifle is good for campaign with grunt birthday party because when you melee in the middle of the burst, you can save 2 rounds. This means you can get 144 headshots out of a battle rifle. Sweet.
Covie sniper for taking on multiple targets; human sniper for taking on an individual or two. Up to 3.
Fuel rod for just kicking the can, rockets for vehicles and Hunters.
Shot gun for point blank, swords for the longer range of close combat.
...What? I'm confused.
Posted by: Rhudebaker
Basically, I think each weapon should have its nitch. The needler kicks the can if you get a bit of a lead going with it. Now... you do that with other guns, so quit complaining about it's lack of tracking. It's not an aimbot.
The only weapons I lead are Spikers and Heavy Weapons. I don't use plasma weapons like the PR or PP beyond close-medium range.

I wouldn't mind leading my needles but most of the time it doesn't do much since the needles start tracking onto their targets and ruin the trajectory that I set for them. At least the weapons I do lead follow a consistent trajectory. I'm actually thinking the Needler would be better off if it didn't have a homing feature.
Posted by: Rhudebaker
Balance reduces the range of skill between players, and makes for no need of specialization. I was the heavy ordinance guy in CE and Halo 2. I'm teaching myself spartan laser for Halo 3 still. I want to focus on a style and go for it, not be as good with an SMG as a Plasma Rifle because they're balanced. To be good with a plasma rifle, you should have to have strong leading/anticipation skills. Not anymore. That's balancing for ya.
I'm still kinda lost here. You had to have strong leading skills to use the plasma rifle in the first game. Balancing a game increases the range of skill between players so that there are noobs and then there are pros and a noticeable difference between them due to consistent game play. Balanced game play means fair game play, as well. By the way, the Splazer essentially a sniper rifle that fires an instant-kill shot with a 2x scope that you have to charge up. The Spartan Laser requires much more accuracy than simply relying on splash damage to blow up an enemy like you would with another heavy weapon.

  • 01.29.2008 3:39 AM PDT
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I don't think it's just as good to have as good of a chance to kill somebody with the weapon you started with and the weapon the other guy scoured the map for. Bogus. That's where we're going to find a lot of surface tension now. What's the point in that? I'm a counter-strike guy. Balancing of weapons just isn't there. I've been testing it and there's no such thing. Every gun needs to have it's advantages over a different one. Hence the list of what I use them for - the one that followed and baffled you.

Why don't you use plasma stuff? Heck, I bet the leading of it drives you crazy. Nobody uses the plasma weapons. I'll take a plasma rifle before an assault rifle, and I'll take it right against an SMG.

The needler takes leading to be succesful for devastation. Let it be settle with that. It doesn't ruin your gameplay because of the way it is. You're just not using yourself to your full potential, and you're looking to blame something for not getting the kill.

Balancing doesn't distance the skill between players. If that was the case, the CS 1.6 would have little difference in skill between people. Yeah right. Balancing brings the gap together, making it smaller. In order to kick the can hard with a Famas on CS, you have to be pretty dang skilled as opposed to the M4A1. Reason? The spray is so much different. I kick the can into raw ore with the Famas. Using an M4 is a breeze, effortless. There's a reason it's the cream of the crop on CS. I'll take the MP5 or the Famas any day on CS. I don't want to use the main weapon that makes it easier. I want the challenge. I'll do my best to snipe the AWP user with my USP. Now that, takes skill.

The autosniper on CS for the Terrorists is the easiest way to snag kills. You can't even call it balanced with the CT autosniper. The CT autosniper has terrible recoil; holding more rounds doesn't justify it for being called balanced. So which gun do we scrap for? The terrorist autosniper.

The AK47 vs the M4. AK has a great first round snipe shot, followed by more if you play pretty on the trigger. The M4 is more of a tactical machine, made for stealth. Yet, it is the main rival for the AK. The two guns are the cream of the crop. Everybody uses them. Closest to being balanced with each other. Not much skill difference needed to use either or both. But to take on the M4 or the AK with the Famas or Galil... is deemed suicide. Why? Because the guns are inferior to their more expensive cream of the crop brothers. Or at least so they are said to be. There's a reason I snipe with the galil and call it the face pounder. There's a reason why I turn on my Naked side when I use the Famas. I think they're better because I trained myself with them. Not at all balanced in a firefight, but with the right tactics they are. Balance kills tactics. I don't dig a cakewalk. Give me the challenge.

  • 01.29.2008 10:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: Rhudebaker
I don't think it's just as good to have as good of a chance to kill somebody with the weapon you started with and the weapon the other guy scoured the map for. Bogus.
I agree, but that's not what I said. If you're good enough with the pistol, you can kill any enemy, regardless of whether your opponent has the better weapon. Therefore, it's not just about who has the better weapons (like it was in Halo 2), but if you were skilled enough then the enemy wouldn't win unfairly simply because he had the better weapons. Let's say you spawn with a pistol and your enemy has a rocket launcher/shotgun. He has an advantage over you in close-quarters like on, let's say, Chill Out. If you're better than him, then you can take him down even though he has the better weapons. In the end, that means it's all about who is more skilled with the weapons.
Posted by: Rhudebaker
That's where we're going to find a lot of surface tension now. What's the point in that? I'm a counter-strike guy. Balancing of weapons just isn't there. I've been testing it and there's no such thing. Every gun needs to have it's advantages over a different one. Hence the list of what I use them for - the one that followed and baffled you.

Why don't you use plasma stuff? Heck, I bet the leading of it drives you crazy. Nobody uses the plasma weapons. I'll take a plasma rifle before an assault rifle, and I'll take it right against an SMG.
You misunderstood me. I don't mind leading with the plasma rifle. That takes skill, and it's a good thing. However, in Halo 2 and Halo 3, the weapons were dumbed down in my opinion.
Posted by: Rhudebaker
The needler takes leading to be succesful for devastation.
And I still disagree. I've tried it before, and leading doesn't do as well as it should when the tracking projectiles alter the trajectory that I set for them.
Posted by: Rhudebaker
Balancing doesn't distance the skill between players. If that was the case, the CS 1.6 would have little difference in skill between people. Yeah right. Balancing brings the gap together, making it smaller. In order to kick the can hard with a Famas on CS, you have to be pretty dang skilled as opposed to the M4A1. Reason? The spray is so much different. I kick the can into raw ore with the Famas. Using an M4 is a breeze, effortless. There's a reason it's the cream of the crop on CS. I'll take the MP5 or the Famas any day on CS. I don't want to use the main weapon that makes it easier. I want the challenge. I'll do my best to snipe the AWP user with my USP. Now that, takes skill.

The autosniper on CS for the Terrorists is the easiest way to snag kills. You can't even call it balanced with the CT autosniper. The CT autosniper has terrible recoil; holding more rounds doesn't justify it for being called balanced. So which gun do we scrap for? The terrorist autosniper.

The AK47 vs the M4. AK has a great first round snipe shot, followed by more if you play pretty on the trigger. The M4 is more of a tactical machine, made for stealth. Yet, it is the main rival for the AK. The two guns are the cream of the crop. Everybody uses them. Closest to being balanced with each other. Not much skill difference needed to use either or both. But to take on the M4 or the AK with the Famas or Galil... is deemed suicide. Why? Because the guns are inferior to their more expensive cream of the crop brothers. Or at least so they are said to be. There's a reason I snipe with the galil and call it the face pounder. There's a reason why I turn on my Naked side when I use the Famas. I think they're better because I trained myself with them. Not at all balanced in a firefight, but with the right tactics they are. Balance kills tactics. I don't dig a cakewalk. Give me the challenge.
What the Hell does "kick the can" mean, by the way? I've never heard that expression before. Anyways, I think we might be misunderstanding each other due to semantics; the way you see balance and i see balance seems different. Perhaps what I mean to say is, balancing makes the game fair, but I don't think it makes the game take less skill per se.

  • 01.31.2008 12:20 PM PDT

Last time I checked, Halo 1 didn't have a Battle Rifle.

I swear, how much more daft can kids these days get? The forum title was renamed to just the "Halo Forum", and now people think everything regarding all the Halo games going in here.

Aieeeeeeee. The needler almost never gets me in Halo 1 & 2 =] It's only when I don't see it coming.

  • 01.31.2008 1:55 PM PDT
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yeah jumping straffing and finding cover are easy ways to avoid a needler in h3 the needler is a very tactical weapon

  • 02.02.2008 11:53 AM PDT
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Kick the can, kick your -blam-, do a really sweet job... etc. Man you guys are so out of it. Move to a small town.

  • 02.03.2008 9:19 AM PDT
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Posted by: Rhudebaker
Kick the can, kick your -blam-, do a really sweet job... etc. Man you guys are so out of it. Move to a small town.
Oh, please, forgive me for my ignorance since I am unfamiliar with your uncommon small-town vernacular. :)

[Edited on 02.03.2008 5:21 PM PST]

  • 02.03.2008 5:21 PM PDT

I'm from a small town, but still don't know what it means. I'm assuming "kick the can" means "death", or one of its many aliases. And yes, balance and effectiveness is subjective.

  • 02.04.2008 9:59 AM PDT