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This topic has moved here: Subject: Community Superchallenge #1 - Fix the Forums
  • Subject: Community Superchallenge #1 - Fix the Forums
Subject: Community Superchallenge #1 - Fix the Forums
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Hi I'm PyRo and I'd like to start Community Superchallenges.

There not Super because their good, its because these are going to be massive projects. Without YOUR help, this will never succeed.

I posted this here because this forum for the most part, has the more "Mature" posters in it and we are the veterans.


Recon's Rant on the N word

This will be a very long and hard raod, but with everyone's participation, I know we can do it.



So you ask "What do you mean by Fix the Forums"?

Well 1st I'm not talking about fixing features or bugs, thats achronos's job. I'm talking about improving the users we have on this site.

We all come here to:

1. Discuss Halo and the rest of Bungie
2. Get Stats
3. Get updates
4. Make friends
5. So much more


In the last few days, at least IMO, the spam has risen dramatically. I continuously see people searching for teams and such in the Halo 3 forum. At times I have just had to leave the forums for alittle while because I was so frustrated by the overwhelming amount of spam.



Coming to these forums gives every user the chance to learn and expand their knowledge.

One of the poblems of these forums is the fact that we have a lot of younger posters. They are generally the bulk of the spam posted here. There is no rule against them, as their shouldn't be, but we need to help them out especially and improve them and also every other user. They deserve to be here just as much as older users do, we're all equal.

This is a difficult issue. I wish sometimes that the mods could just hit a button and poof all the spam would go away. But the reality is that can't happen. Thats why we have that awesome spam button to hit. These forums are a venue to discuss Bungie by all of its users. So limiting ages isn't and never should be used as a solution.

Also amateur modding isn't helping anything. It just devolves into more spam and a greater pissing contest. This doesn't mean that you can't constructibely direct people to the correct forums or helpful ways. You have all seen examples of amatteur modding where it has gone bad. Resentment isn't what we should want here either.

Why do I want the forums fixed?

1. Ownership
2. Collaborative creativity
3. Getting to know people
4. Control
5. Treating Others


I know the forums are worthwhile to have because of all the good and constructive potential that is there. I will tell you that there are certain peoples threads and posts I particuraly like to read. They usually have good, constructive points, questions and they can back themselves up without the need to put others down. The more threads that are like this, the more enjoyable these forums will become. We need more constructive posters. How do we get these? We begin today on January 25th, 2008. We need the communitys help, as it will start with us and spread like a plague onto others.


1. Ownership

The forums should not just be seen as Bungie property. Why? The reason is because people will just spread graffitti type posts and will literally do anything for attention. When we come to Bnet, if we are here to participate in the forums we should feel welcomed to be here. The environment should be rich and free of hostility. If this happens spam levels will decrease dramatically.

You may know a few users who go around trying to help direct traffic constructively. As long as it is constructive, they aren't abusing the forums and are at least trying to help the forums succeed. The most important thing here is to just follow good practice. The more people doing this, the more who may have a chance of noticing and jump on the band wagon.

2. Collabrative Creativity.

A good thread doesn't half to be serious. Examples are one's that have laid back discussions and everyone can generally offer their opinons without much trouble. Some of these threads survive and well frankly some of them die off. Sometimes I like to just have a more casual thread as to relax and not half to be 100% serious all the time. These threads can also bring relief when the forums are full of morons or are dry.

3. Getting to Know people.

It's awesome that we get to meet people on xbox-live. But we, the individual user, all have the same chance to enrich our forum experience by making friends while were here. Want an example? The "Introduce yourself" at the top of this very forum and the flood. Also it is used in many groups so they may become alittle closer. For these forums to be awesome, we don't need a lot of strangers, we need family here. If you aren't a friendly face to someone here, its because your not fulfilling your role as forum poster, or your new. Helping out the brand new people on Bnet when you see them is important as we can guide them from day 1, as with others it is harder because they've fallen into this pattern.

4. Control

Probably the most difficult thing to do at times. When you disagree with someone, thats perfectly fine. Just make sure you do it without offending others and most importantly make it constructive. If someone disagrees with you, thats fine also. Just make your point without letting it evolve into a flame war. Flame wars just piss people off and thus contribute to rule breaking and even more spam. Also when you post, stay on topic. That will eliminate spam right there also.

The situations where you see a thread and just by the title you check it out to see if its spam and it is, is a point where I and others get very dissapointed. It just amazes me how some of these threads can get 150+ replies. If you recognize situations where a thread has devolved or shouldn't have ever evolved in the first place, act accordingly. Before you hit the submit button, make sure you really want to reply. There is nothing worse on these forums then just flat out adding to spam. All that does is devolve the enviorernment. This is why I am asking for the communitys help. Were going to evolve the forums into a more welcome place.


5. Treatment of others.

This goes hand in hand with #4. When you see a new person on the forums, if they accidentially post in the wrong forum there is no need to jump down there throat about it. If we do this, we won't gain anymore posters, and potential ideas may be lost. If someone takes the time out of there day to post on your thread, and follows all rules while staying on topic, then they deserve a personal reply from you. Not only is it the only way leagal "bumping" but it also recognizes there effort.

So how are we supposed to treat those who just wish to spam all day long? This is extremely simple. Ignore them. If theres no reason for them to get attention, then they'll be greatly discouraged to do so. Another way of slowly reducing the amount of spam on these forums. Example - If 5 straight threads are made nd are attention getting or pure spam we have 5 posts and threads of spam now. When 5 people reply to each thread now we have 5 threads and 25 posts of pure spam, thus just magnifying the problem. Also by doing this you have just given them the attention that they want. I dream of the day I see a pure spam thread just ignored and reported.


6. Miscellanious

When you post a thread that has potential for great discussion, that enriches the forums. People who just post *sign* or I agree aren't exactly considered spam, but it might as well be. (excluding H3 forums campaign thread with over 8k replies) They aren't backing themselves up or justifying themselves. Therefore there post was uneeded, unreasoned and uncaring. Put alittle bit of effort into your posts. It opens up conversation and keeps the discussion alive.

7. Forum Tips

Do not use the N word in any way, shape or form. There isn't a situation you can come up with that justifies it.

Get involved in groups. They'll also be revamped soon.

Use good grammar

Post constructive criticism

Assume people intend well, just because a post is in the wrong forum, just advise them nicely where to go.

Offer your knowledge, and contribute it so everyone is more educated.

Be fair. Evaluate both sides and try to see where their coming from.

Charm is way more powerful than force (Xcept Mods in some situations)

Use the search feature

Stop the posting of COD4 Vs Halo 3, Elites Vs Spartans.

8. Final statements.


I am asking for the community's help in order to begin to evolve these forums into a better enviorernment. It will be a long hard road, but with persaverance I know we can do it.


If there isn't a single point in this post here that makes you stop and think for a moment, or doesn't apply to any of your posts, then just post it and this will be abandoned. If you like, propose that this is a waste of space, as long as you can back it up. [/b]

I personally have been on many different forums for a long time and have almost 50,000 posts. I've seen an example of almost everything. I even saw on this site, a thread titled, Halo of Duty 4.


Feel free to challenge anything I have posted.

I do realize that not everyone can be changed, but at least enough people can to make this a more enjoyable place to be.

Open to comments, suggestions, ideas and ninja edits.

Looking forward to playing in the Community Humpday later this evening.


PyRo's Challenge

I challenge every community forum regular to change or help 1 person every week. Also get them to buy into this and we will begin to grow these ideas thru Bnet in no time. Hopefully every week we can expand.

Thank you guys for reading and have a nice day.


[Edited on 01.26.2008 12:56 PM PST]

  • 01.26.2008 12:09 PM PDT

My YouTube Channel. Just getting into the Machinima business.

Don't know what to say other than

/signed

if it is applicable. Great post.

  • 01.26.2008 12:22 PM PDT
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Want to know more about me? Check out my Community Joes interview.

Trying something once will increace your chances of success, because you tried it. Try someting twice, and your chances increase yet again - seeing as you've done it. Try something a few thousand times, and your chances of success is exponentially increased; this increase would likely provide success every time

Great post Pyro, I completely agree with everything you said. I am afraid however, that the Septagon has no need for this. Since this is the more 'helpful and kind' forum out of the selection. But none the less, I agree.

Edit: I do understand what you were saying, by 'spreading the word' type of thing. But those who post in the Septagon usually do post elsewhere. And peoples posting attitudes rarely change.

[Edited on 01.26.2008 12:25 PM PST]

  • 01.26.2008 12:24 PM PDT
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Thanks guys ^^^^

This doesn't apply as much to this individual forum as others.

I'm talking to you guys and also the people who never post here. If we go out into other forums and follow these guidelines, then just maybe we can hopefully change some of our other posters on this site.

This can also be applied to almost any forums on the entire internet.



EDIT - I'm gonna add at the top why I think this should go here.

[Edited on 01.26.2008 12:36 PM PST]

  • 01.26.2008 12:33 PM PDT
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gosh you're such a n00b!

haha, I'm sorry I couldn't resist. I'm just messin dude.

In all seriousness tho. I have much experience with Community Whine Threads. I've authored several myself. And I can tell you one thing, they don't do anything. People get all interested and inspierd for 2-3 days, then go back to business as usual.

I don't mean to crush your dreams or anything dude, I just know from experience, that nothing will change.

  • 01.26.2008 12:39 PM PDT
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PyRo's Challenge added. The only reason these things don't go through is because people aren't willing to make the place better. If we can all pitch in, then it won't really be as hard as if nobody wants to help us.

I'm also counting on a few of you.

  • 01.26.2008 1:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: PyRo Tek NikS
PyRo's Challenge added. The only reason these things don't go through is because people aren't willing to make the place better. If we can all pitch in, then it won't really be as hard as if nobody wants to help us.

I'm also counting on a few of you.
For the most part, I agree with you in saying that we, as a community, should help other members. I like your advice and it is nice to see constructive posts like these with the intention of improving Bungie.net's environment. I have a project that I am working on that is very time consuming, but I think it will pay off in the long run because of its purpose of helping the thousands and thousands of new users that join the site each day. I for one am trying to make a difference and hopefully we will see those changes and enhancements in the future.

  • 01.26.2008 2:58 PM PDT

I always hated you the most.
My Message Policy

A wholeheartedly agree with you pyro. Great ideas and great motive. We need to help one another and guide the new guys. But, there are only so many of us, and a flood of them. It isn't going to be easy but I want to see this happen.

*Edit* Also how do you intend we stem the tide of spam and repeated questions. People never read the bloody stickies. We're gonna need some outside help, we need the Ninja's and Bungie's support. this is too big of a job for the few of us.


[Edited on 01.26.2008 7:02 PM PST]

  • 01.26.2008 6:56 PM PDT
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I honestly can't decide what to say to this thread. Maybe in the morning....

  • 01.26.2008 7:13 PM PDT
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Posted by: Panzershreke
A wholeheartedly agree with you pyro. Great ideas and great motive. We need to help one another and guide the new guys. But, there are only so many of us, and a flood of them. It isn't going to be easy but I want to see this happen.

*Edit* Also how do you intend we stem the tide of spam and repeated questions. People never read the bloody stickies. We're gonna need some outside help, we need the Ninja's and Bungie's support. this is too big of a job for the few of us.


Yes we will need help but I have that covered. We need to get a group of people going by this to thus go out and convince other users therefore we will begin to multiply.

Cryptic thanks for your reply and I can't wait to see your project.


SPAM REPORT:

132 reply spam thread

225 reply - I want Recon thread

29 reply asking for recon thread

10 reply thread asking for recon

13 reply thread of I don't want recon

5 reply thread not asking for recon

160 reply spam thread

only threads with 25+ replies or relating to recon were reported.

^^^^ This is what I'm talking about.

[Edited on 01.26.2008 7:43 PM PST]

  • 01.26.2008 7:20 PM PDT

<3 PMS Clan-Twitter-Personal Site
Posted by: Deus_Ex_Machina
Cortana 5 is a carbon-based lifeform that frequently visits these forums, currently residing in the United States. Practically every male on the site responds to her posts.

The Joyeuse IP Formula

I think this is awesome, Pyro! This kind of reminds of the whole, "Do something good for three people, and those three people will help three others, each."
If that makes any sense. =\

  • 01.26.2008 7:33 PM PDT
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Thanks Pyro, for reading my post in the Halo 3 Forum, and sending the link to this thread. I am in complete agreement with you on the recent explosion of spam/whining. I also agree that we ALL have a responsibility to act the right way. I for one need to exercise more restraint, and not respond to spam even if I think I can correct their errors in fact or thought.That said...

Posted by: Rokit
Great post Pyro, I completely agree with everything you said. I am afraid however, that the Septagon has no need for this. Since this is the more 'helpful and kind' forum out of the selection. But none the less, I agree.

Edit: I do understand what you were saying, by 'spreading the word' type of thing. But those who post in the Septagon usually do post elsewhere. And peoples posting attitudes rarely change.


...he's mostly right. I have never posted in this forum before, and I think there is probably not much cross over from this forum to some others, like the Halo 3 forum. It will be difficult to spread positivity and responsible forum use. You are on the right track, IMHO, with trying to enlist the help of the other responsible forum users. The spammers and trolls will probably not change their ways, the best we can hope for is to ignore them and report them, and hopefully they'll lose interest and go away (to be replaced by others, who will also eventually go away). I don't want to see the Ninjas flooded with spam though, we need to be judicious in our reporting. Let the little ones die out on their own and only report the really bad ones. That's my suggestion for the spam, as for helping the new people and setting a good example, I am all for it: monkey see, monkey do.

Thanks All.

Vote RoboNixon in '08...if you don't, you'll regret it. I promise. -ad paid for by RoboNixon08

  • 01.26.2008 8:01 PM PDT
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^^^ Your welcome.

I am also sending this thread in a pm to some people I see in the Halo 3 forum.

The community forum is a good 1 so stick around.

And yes within the last few days or week the whining and spam has just multiplied greatly.

I know we can't change everyone but if we can change some people than we can call it a victory.

Thanks for the support.


Just got done playing BTB and had around 300 kills and 25 deaths.

  • 01.26.2008 11:10 PM PDT

Posted by: Crimson Scuba
Don't know what to say other than

/signed

if it is applicable. Great post.

/signedX2

  • 01.26.2008 11:37 PM PDT

When enlightenment is the question. The Answer is Pain.
When Ignorance is the problem. The Answer is Blood.
When love is absent. Hatred fills the void.

i do think Pyro is right...to a degree.

  • 01.26.2008 11:43 PM PDT
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The End

‘The conscious is cancerous if allowed to linger’

"Even if you're on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there."

Superchallenge, more like UltraMegaImpossiblyDifficultChallenge

I like helping to clamp down on spam so I agree however I do think that this "Challenge" is something we should all try to do anyway and doubt this thread will make miracles happen as long as there are people out there who set goals to make other people's lives miserable.

Good post though Pyro!

  • 01.27.2008 3:27 AM PDT
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Challenge?

Nearly everything you've mentioned has been covered in either the Code of Conduct or a Forum sticky. Making friends and such is solely up to you, and if you really want to get to know people, just read their posts (there's also an introduction sticky if you want to get to the nitty gritty details). Even if that's not how they act in real life, it's likely the only way you'll see them act on the Forum...which brings us to the inherent flaw in any Internet Forum...and that is, it's the internet. While I applaud you for wanting to make this place a better, more friendly, and overall human place, the fact remains that this is the internet. It's sole purpose is to provide information and entertainment and many of the people on this Forum don't feel like they'll get either if they have to "play nice."

Now listen, I'm not just saying this because I don't believe there's any chance for change, and I hope that the members of B.net actually do try and change or help 1 person every week (reminiscent of "Pay it Forward" don't you think?), but the fact is, threads like this (with minor variations) are made at least once a month and while they are all sincere and heartfelt, I have yet to see these Forums change from what they always have been: A place for people to bask in anonymity.

(If you want an example of what I'm talking about, see the thread two spaces above this, titled "Community Forum".)

[Edited on 01.27.2008 6:52 AM PST]

  • 01.27.2008 4:01 AM PDT
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Posted by: TOM T 117
Superchallenge, more like UltraMegaImpossiblyDifficultChallenge

I like helping to clamp down on spam so I agree however I do think that this "Challenge" is something we should all try to do anyway and doubt this thread will make miracles happen as long as there are people out there who set goals to make other people's lives miserable.

Good post though Pyro!


Thanks Tom. I won't let this die without a fight. But ya Superchallenge is an underestimate.

  • 01.27.2008 12:22 PM PDT