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Subject: Sadly disappointed in Bungie
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Let me start by saying I have the utmost respect for Bungie the company and the products they produce. In an industry that seems to churn out more chaff than chalice, the quality of their finished product has, on several occasions, brought tears of joy. Here comes the 'but'...

Firing up the dashboard the other day, I was presented with an ad for the 'Halo 3 Sniper School' brought to us by the US Army. More recently, it was the 'Halo 3 Heavy Weapons School'. Shame on you Bungie. I don't know who's decision this was, but this is appalling. There is a growing movement to try and pin increased school violence, murder-rates, etc. etc. on video games and we gamers have been saying all along that there is no connection between games and 'real-life'. Then a promotion like this comes along and is implicitly telling that coveted 18-25 demographic that being in the military is like playing Halo.Let me start by saying I have the utmost respect for Bungie the company and the products they produce. In an industry that seems to churn out more chaff than chalice, the quality of their finished product has, on several occasions, brought tears of joy. Here comes the 'but'...

Firing up the dashboard the other day, I was presented with an ad for the 'Halo 3 Sniper School' brought to us by the US Army. More recently, it was the 'Halo 3 Heavy Weapons School'. Shame on you Bungie. I don't know who's decision this was, but it is appalling.

There is a growing movement to try and pin increased school violence, murder-rates, etc. etc. on video games and we gamers have been saying all along that there is no connection between games and 'real-life'. Then a promotion like this comes along and is implicitly telling that coveted 18-25 demographic that being in the military is like playing Halo. You can discount the implied link all you want, but the bottom-line is, even if no one at Bungie intended it, you can bet the Army's recruiting office is entirely willing to take advantage of the association.

While I didn't try it, you can 'sign-up' for this 'training' by downloading content. Does this content get me put on a mailing list? If some high school student simply wants a new gamer picture and downloads the content, do they get swamped with mail and phone calls from unscrupulous Army recruiters who chat-up potential recruits with comparisons between HALO and service in the armed forces? I'm making a few assumptions and giving just a few examples, but you hopefully get the idea.

Before you flame me, if you're even still reading, I am not some overly concerned parent (in fact, my 2 1/2 year old son loves watching the "Master Chief Movie" (the HALO 3 ad from XBOX Live)), and I'm happy to let him. I have earned all 1000 gamer-points in HALO3 (yes, EARNED them, not by standing in a match taking turns with the rocket-launcher just for the achievement). I'm also not anti-military. What they do every day makes it possible for me to sit on my ass in front of my big screen and play games. We need them and I'm happy they're out there. But there has always been a well-defined line between life and gaming. Not only did Bungie cross the line, they pushed their fan base right into the waiting room of the US Army recruiting office.

I understand the desire to maximize a revenue stream, but if you need ad-revenue to keep developing new content, have Master Chief drink a Pepsi or eat at Taco Bell. I don't like that, but I can understand it.

I would appreciate a reasoned response from someone at Bungie, but I will understand if no one wants to touch this. I just needed give it some voice.

See you in matchmaking,

RobotSpider

  • 02.05.2008 9:19 AM PDT
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Talk to the Soul | ~B.B. | Know Your Duardo |  | Hero | ISFJ | 77135 | 94371

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me."

I think it's more Microsoft than Bungie.

  • 02.05.2008 9:22 AM PDT
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It wasn't Bungie's decision. Microsoft owns the Halo IP. It was their decision. Your disappointment is misplaced. ;)

  • 02.05.2008 9:24 AM PDT
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what's a little spinal fluid between you and a friend?

Microsoft owns the Halo IP, They own the Halo name, and can slap it on anything they see fit.

  • 02.05.2008 9:25 AM PDT
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You repeated yourself a little bit there.
I don't think that this thread is really suited for this forum, but the US Army is allowed to advertise and sponsor events just as much as Taco Bell is. They're not stupid enough to put you on some mailing list without your consent. It's just an event with the army's name on it.
"Sniper school" has no connection to school shootings, if that's what you were implying. That's a HUGE stretch. The army actually does train you for weapons, and so they're just making the marketing connection.

There are no lies in this advertising. They won't trick your son into the recruiting office. That said, it will make him aware of his option to join the Army, which is just fine.

  • 02.05.2008 9:25 AM PDT
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Ok, first of all, to everyone who said it was Microsoft's decision; thank you. You raise a good point, and I hadn't considered it.

Second, CAVX, go back and READ my post, don't skim it. I never said sniper school was related to games. I take the exact opposite position on that issue. My point was that in an environment where there are a lot of calls by a lot of people, politicians and lawyers to blame societies ills on video games, drawing a clear, unambiguous link between a game and some very real, very serious real-life is a dangerous thing.

Finally, I never said the Army shouldn't advertise. My point was the benign nature of a Taco Bell or Pepsi ad. If they, consciously or otherwise, convince someone to eat a taco or drink a soda, where's the harm? The Army has a well-documented history of obfuscating the reality of service in its ads, this is the just most grievous example to-date.

RobotSpider

  • 02.05.2008 9:35 AM PDT

- Mike

If Bungie had control over halo's IP I highly doubt they would do something like that. Blame Microsoft and there money making schemes...

  • 02.05.2008 9:39 AM PDT
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Posted by: antiherosk8er
If Bungie had control over halo's IP I highly doubt they would do something like that. Blame Microsoft and there money making schemes...


well theres an old face.

sup

  • 02.05.2008 9:43 AM PDT
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Posted by: RobotSpidr
Ok, first of all, to everyone who said it was Microsoft's decision; thank you. You raise a good point, and I hadn't considered it.

Second, CAVX, go back and READ my post, don't skim it. I never said sniper school was related to games. I take the exact opposite position on that issue. My point was that in an environment where there are a lot of calls by a lot of people, politicians and lawyers to blame societies ills on video games, drawing a clear, unambiguous link between a game and some very real, very serious real-life is a dangerous thing.

Finally, I never said the Army shouldn't advertise. My point was the benign nature of a Taco Bell or Pepsi ad. If they, consciously or otherwise, convince someone to eat a taco or drink a soda, where's the harm? The Army has a well-documented history of obfuscating the reality of service in its ads, this is the just most grievous example to-date.

RobotSpider


I did read your post. It's kind of this thing I like to do.

So you don't like it because it gives people more blame to throw at the game? Then yes, that's possible, but I don't consider correlating a shooter game with the army to be a bad thing, or something that can be used against them.

And I'm aware of the army's advertising history. But I see nothing wrong with their marketing here. Advertising for a video game doesn't mean that you're relating the army to Halo 3. The army has advertised for ice hockey games, too. The army used events like "Sniper School" because Halo 3 actually does have that in common with the army. But I see no point where the army implies here that this event is at all related to the reality of serving in the armed forces.

[Edited on 02.05.2008 9:47 AM PST]

  • 02.05.2008 9:46 AM PDT
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Infection in Halo 3 isn't zombie killing; it's ethnic cleansing. Have you ever noticed that these "zombies" are just black Spartans?

I knew there was a reason I was glad my dashboard doesn't show any ads because I'm not in the US, you just found it for me.

  • 02.05.2008 9:52 AM PDT

Old school Bungie, born and raised,
In the Septagon is where I spend most of my days.
Relaxin', maxin', posting all cool,
Talking about Halo, life and some school.
Got in one little argument, and the mods got scared,
they said "You're gonna get banned and your member title'll be bare!"

Seems like a load of bullocks to me.

No where did the advertisement say "The Army is like Halo!" That's your interpretation, so if you, or anyone else, joins under that pretense, then you're SOL.

The U.S. Army has sponsored many an event, not excluding football games and the sort. I don't see anyone making the proposition that fighting in skirmishes is like playing a game of football with your buddies in one's backyard. You're just over-reacting: there's no harm being done here, only your own misperceptions and exaggerations.

  • 02.05.2008 10:20 AM PDT
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Posted by: prometheus25
Seems like a load of bullocks to me.

No where did the advertisement say "The Army is like Halo!" That's your interpretation, so if you, or anyone else, joins under that pretense, then you're SOL.

The U.S. Army has sponsored many an event, not excluding football games and the sort. I don't see anyone making the proposition that fighting in skirmishes is like playing a game of football with your buddies in one's backyard. You're just over-reacting: there's no harm being done here, only your own misperceptions and exaggerations.


Agreed, the Army sponsors Nascar, drag racing, some little super fast motorcycle drag racing chick, etc, oh my god, lets all go ride horses, don't want to be driving in a car cuz everyone will think we're Army. Exaggeration but hopefully the point is valid

  • 02.05.2008 10:42 AM PDT
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Posted by: prometheus25
Seems like a load of bullocks to me.

No where did the advertisement say "The Army is like Halo!" That's your interpretation, so if you, or anyone else, joins under that pretense, then you're SOL.

That's why I used the word implicit, look it up if you aren't sure. Obviously they can't state the comparison explicitly, because it isn't true. Ad companies (not just the Army) spend far more on what ads don't say than what they do. We all know that taking Levitra isn't going to help you throw a football through a tire, but the ad associates their product with something more glamorous and less real. In most cases, the association is harmless. In the rest of the cases, it is perceived as harmless. Only the naive and uninformed fail to see the difference.

If you fail to see this for what it is, the misperception is yours, not mine. The fact that people don't see an ethical conflict here further reinforces the argument that this type of promotion does exactly what it sets out to do. I'm clearly in the minority which I can deal with. I'm done responding.

  • 02.05.2008 10:58 AM PDT

Posted by: Duardo
I think it's more Microsoft than Bungie.


That's my impression. I haven't heard anyone even talking about it here.

  • 02.05.2008 11:05 AM PDT

I don't think it's a great big deal, but Government advertising doesn't make much sense to me, especially with product style advertising. "Be all you can be", is fine, but "Do the Dew, Army Dew", is a step in the wrong direction for all sides.

  • 02.05.2008 11:07 AM PDT

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.

Posted by: AGDTinMan
Posted by: Duardo
I think it's more Microsoft than Bungie.


That's my impression. I haven't heard anyone even talking about it here.


I think it went borderline when they made Halo 3 Adidas shoes.

Microsoft is basically trying to milk the Halo name for all it's worth. What's next Halo cereal?

  • 02.05.2008 11:44 AM PDT

- Mike

Posted by: Blizzard411
Microsoft is basically trying to milk the Halo name for all it's worth. What's next Halo cereal?


Introducing Halo Puffs

[Edited on 02.05.2008 12:25 PM PST]

  • 02.05.2008 12:25 PM PDT
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Why did you repeat yourself? Anyways, that does seem kind of stupid in my opinion, but I would blame it on Microsoft.

[Edited on 02.05.2008 12:33 PM PST]

  • 02.05.2008 12:29 PM PDT

Posted by: Blizzard411

Microsoft is basically trying to milk the Halo name for all it's worth. What's next Halo cereal?


Mmm, it's chocked full of nutrients and eight essential vitamins!

*holds up spoon and smiles*

  • 02.05.2008 12:50 PM PDT
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Robotspidr... CRAP NOT TRUE!!!!!!!!! DONT CRITICIZE BUNGIE, THEY HAVE FEELINGS TOO YA KNOW!!!!!!!!!!!! >=(

  • 02.05.2008 1:10 PM PDT

I remember seeing the ads in question, too, and being a bit confused as to why Halo was being used to advertise the Army. Is the military really like Halo?

Not to say anything for or against the Army, I just think that it's a questionable move given the history within the videogame industry of accusations to the effect of "games are military training for kids."

I'm surprised we haven't been hearing more complaints to that effect.

[Edited on 02.05.2008 1:26 PM PST]

  • 02.05.2008 1:21 PM PDT

Mother pus bucket!

Posted by: RobotSpidr
Finally, I never said the Army shouldn't advertise. My point was the benign nature of a Taco Bell or Pepsi ad. If they, consciously or otherwise, convince someone to eat a taco or drink a soda, where's the harm?

RobotSpider

According to many doctors and researchers, obesity is a serious health risk and a major problem throughout North America. Could it not also be argued that using Halo / Master Chief to advertise fast food and sugary drinks will contribute to a growing health crisis?

I have to respectfully disagree with you on this. The "video games cause violence" position is not new... and it's very similar to the positions regarding movies, rock music and a variety of other influences. I believe that, 99% of the time, people are responsible for their own actions regardless of external influences. While it would be foolish (and potentially dangerous) to disregard that 1%, the response must be reasonable.

I tried hard to keep this un-political... I hope I succeeded.

  • 02.05.2008 1:25 PM PDT

There are two groups of people in the world - those that hope, and those that wish. The first group hopes that nothing bad will happen. The second group wishes that they are there when it does. Which one are you?

-Felix

While Bungie has a "close working relationship" with Microsoft regarding the Halo IP now, I thought the bottom line was that it simply wasn't theirs anymore. Am I wrong?

  • 02.05.2008 1:29 PM PDT

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.

Posted by: apollo1975
According to many doctors and researchers, obesity is a serious health risk and a major problem throughout North America. Could it not also be argued that using Halo / Master Chief to advertise fast food and sugary drinks will contribute to a growing health crisis?



They already have a Halo 3 gamefuel mountain dew drink.

  • 02.05.2008 1:39 PM PDT

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