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This topic has moved here: Subject: Why is the Halo CE pistol unbalanced?
  • Subject: Why is the Halo CE pistol unbalanced?
Subject: Why is the Halo CE pistol unbalanced?

I have no idea why people label it as 'unbalanced'. Here's my take on it:

It's very similar in power to the Battle Rifle. It's basically like having a BR start with AR sidearm, but the other way round. There is no difference between Halo 2, in that respect. If the Battle Rifle looked like a child's capgun, would people call that overbalanced? Is the overbalanced claim based on look or the idea that it unbalances games.

  • 02.09.2008 2:58 AM PDT
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Who's calling it unbalanced?

  • 02.09.2008 5:42 AM PDT
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Over the years alot of people have felt that the CE pistol was way overpowered. What I ask them to consider is that far into the future one would think that technological progress would allow for a very powerful small sidearm and ammo for it!

What people forget is that THEY DO NOT HAVE TO USE IT!

I have gone whole games where I have just never used it other than for melee, and as soon as a Plasma Pistol becomes available I switch to it. The PP has advantages (homing and it can take out any enemy in the game including Hunters, Banshees (alot tougher!) and even Wraiths when it is used correctly), and disadvantages (no scope, no one headshot kills).

If you do not like a weapon, do not use it is all I have to say to people who gripe about these things. It is not like there are not other weapons LAYING AROUND EVERYWHERE!

I have spoke my piece now!

  • 02.09.2008 8:25 AM PDT
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Posted by: womyfts
Over the years alot of people have felt that the CE pistol was way overpowered. What I ask them to consider is that far into the future one would think that technological progress would allow for a very powerful small sidearm and ammo for it!

What people forget is that THEY DO NOT HAVE TO USE IT!

I have gone whole games where I have just never used it other than for melee, and as soon as a Plasma Pistol becomes available I switch to it. The PP has advantages (homing and it can take out any enemy in the game including Hunters, Banshees (alot tougher!) and even Wraiths when it is used correctly), and disadvantages (no scope, no one headshot kills).

If you do not like a weapon, do not use it is all I have to say to people who gripe about these things. It is not like there are not other weapons LAYING AROUND EVERYWHERE!

I have spoke my piece now!
That argument is invalid, because just because you choose not to use it doesn't mean other people won't. If we don't like a weapon that's one thing, but when it affects game play balance then the developers are to blame. Hate the game, not the playa.

[Edited on 02.09.2008 9:48 AM PST]

  • 02.09.2008 9:48 AM PDT
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I agree with womyfts because the gamer can easily avoid having so much grief about a stupid pistol. IF YOU DON'T LIKE A WEAPON DON'T USE IT!

  • 02.09.2008 5:26 PM PDT

the way it really is, is that the people that live in halo 2 and halo 3 go old skool and find themselves with someone who has used a pistol while they played halo 2(which might i add you didnt need a lot of skill in that game like you did in CE). and since they havent played halo CE they think that its unfair and crap. what they dont realize is that HALO CE TAKES SKILL TO PLAY (yes, it does take skill to use the pistol and kill someone with three headshots)...

i think i said everything i needed to, although not very good. but yeah.

  • 02.09.2008 8:03 PM PDT
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The problem was that while it could be beaten by other guns within their specialised area of effectiveness, it destroyed them outside it.

It was only a bit less effective than the other guns inside their best area...but was a -blam!-load more effective than them outside it.

  • 02.10.2008 3:18 AM PDT

I am a monument to all of your sins.

If anything just cannot go wrong ,it will anyway
.fortune wisdom

I love my Mark V helmet, no upgrade necessary.

Actually,the reason the pistol was overpowered was because there was a bug at the very last moment before the game shipped.
This bug made the pistol do double damage,but because they reached the deadline and had to ship they where not able to fix it in time.

They talk about this in of the latest podcast's.

  • 02.10.2008 7:00 AM PDT
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Without the pistol's power, I don't think Halo: CE would have made it with MLG.

And even then, I think it turned out to be better for game play.

If Bungie seriously didn't like it that much, then they wouldn't have made the BR a four shot kill in Halo 2 and 3.

  • 02.10.2008 10:40 AM PDT
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Posted by: No1 But Some1
Without the pistol's power, I don't think Halo: CE would have made it with MLG.
I doubt it. For MLG, popularity precedes balanced, skill-based game play.

  • 02.10.2008 4:46 PM PDT
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In my opinion, the pistol is a lot better than the battle rifle. It may be more powerful and carry more ammo, but it is nowhere near as accurate at distances, which balances it out quite a bit, as only maybe 1 in every 3 shots hits from a longer range as compared to the practically constant pummeling from the battle rifle.

  • 02.10.2008 6:50 PM PDT
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Posted by: Scourge
I agree with womyfts because the gamer can easily avoid having so much grief about a stupid pistol. IF YOU DON'T LIKE A WEAPON DON'T USE IT!

Post makes no sense.

Ignoring a weapon won't save you from being destroyed by it, so you're compelled to use it just to keep up.

  • 02.10.2008 11:31 PM PDT
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It's a good weapon to use. What's the beef?

  • 02.11.2008 12:34 AM PDT
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Posted by: Rhudebaker
It's a good weapon to use. What's the beef?
QFT!

  • 02.11.2008 11:59 AM PDT
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Posted by: Rhudebaker
It's a good weapon to use. What's the beef?

My beef is that it outdoes the other "mainstream" weapons (ugh, can't word it any better atm) by a huge margin.

  • 02.11.2008 4:27 PM PDT
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Every gun has its situation.

Plasma Rifle while jumping off a ramp or something to keep them frozen and BLB them.

Rockets- Multikills galore.

Sniper- Kill enemies without being (until you shoot of course).

AR- Good backup gun.

Shotgun- Close range gun and takes out OS guy's shields well enough.

Pistol- Good all around gun in the right hands. Takes skill to use and 3sk's arn't easy.

  • 02.11.2008 8:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: No1 But Some1
Every gun has its situation.

Plasma Rifle while jumping off a ramp or something to keep them frozen and BLB them.

Rockets- Multikills galore.

Sniper- Kill enemies without being (until you shoot of course).

AR- Good backup gun.

Shotgun- Close range gun and takes out OS guy's shields well enough.

Pistol- Good all around gun in the right hands. Takes skill to use and 3sk's arn't easy.

agreed..

i hate halo 2 and halo 3's abundance of weapons.. so many of them are useless.. h1 had little weapons but all weapons had a purpose in certain situations (minus the needler).. h1 pistol is the greatest weapon ever..

  • 02.11.2008 10:33 PM PDT
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In my experiences online:

The first three weapons (Rockets, Sniper Rifle, Shotgun) fill the archetypal FPS trio of Heavies, Extreme Long Range, and Extreme Short Range weapons. It's a given they'll be ridiculously powerful in their zones, and they're a degree separated from everything else.

----

Core Trio
Rockets - Desirable as the name implies
Sniper - Desirable as the name implies
Shotgun - Desirable as the name implies


Everything Else

Pistol - Desirable, but not as the name implies, constantly used

Plasma Rifle - Limited fire rate and limited accuracy, rarely used

Assault Rifle - Limited accuracy and weak damage, rarely used

Plasma Pistol - Weak standard attack, rarely used

Needler - Easily avoided, rarely used

----

So, even counting the trio and the pistol, half the weapons are rarely used. Without the trio, things look even worse. You have one weapon that is frequently used, and the others are barely used in comparison. Arguably because it far outclasses them all as a weapon. That's a problem if you like diversity and choice in your tools of destruction (I like diversity!).

Let's take a brief look at Halo 3. Pistol in a for more pistol-like role, no longer a weapon you carry for most of the game, Plasma Rifle tweaked and dual-wieldable, Assault Rifle has much better punch and accuracy, Plasma Pistol becomes useful for anti-vehicle combat, Needler actually becomes dangerous. Then we have the Battle Rifle and Carbine for mid-range combat outside AR ranges, new Brute toys to diversify close range and bullet hoses, etc. Halo 1, to be frank, is a shallow kiddy pool when it comes to diverse and balanced weapon sets, and Halo 3 tops it, unsurprisingly.

The pistol wouldn't have been nearly as unbalanced if the other main weapons were boosted or the pistol nerfed, imo.

  • 02.12.2008 12:27 AM PDT
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Yeah, but more weapons doesn't necessarily mean more balance. Halo 2 and Halo 3 have shown that. Yes, the original game had a design flaw where the other weapons such as the plasma rifle weren't used too much, but that doesn't mean they can't be too effective and Halo had a great design where instead of having 32 different weapons they had like nine, each with its own purpose (although Bungie could have done a better job balancing the weapons).

  • 02.12.2008 3:42 AM PDT

Although balance is a great thing, if they didn't want an overpowered weapon, they should just play a game variance without pistols. Or practice more, like the people who they complain abuse the pistol.

But I do have to agree with your point here. A game with few weapons, but each has its own purpose most likely does well in terms of balance. However, people wanted their own playing style, so Bungie gave it to them. In the form of many weapons.

  • 02.12.2008 10:19 AM PDT
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@Master Kim.

Doesn't necessarily mean more balance, of course, but having less weapons can force more roles onto a weapon, skewing balance (ie pistol's well-roundedness with few downsides). More weapons means more diversity right off the bat, I see it as a positive step, I have more choice going into combat.

@chickenlittle.

Modifying game modes to lock out the pistol is a band-aid solution ;).

[Edited on 02.12.2008 1:39 PM PST]

  • 02.12.2008 1:34 PM PDT
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I like band-aids, especially the ones with Spongebob on them.

  • 02.12.2008 4:53 PM PDT
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Real men let the wound sit until it becomes gangrenous, then gnaw out the infected tissue with their teeth.

  • 02.12.2008 11:30 PM PDT
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I think the reason as to why some of the other weapons aren't used as much are probably because they were designed for campaign and you were just also allowed to use it in multiplayer. After all, its practically impossible to get anywhere on legendary without a plasma rifle, and AI aren't as good at dodging needler shots. My theory is just that back then they probably didn't really address multiplayer very much, although they do now.

  • 02.13.2008 1:57 PM PDT
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Posted by: Rade9098
I think the reason as to why some of the other weapons aren't used as much are probably because they were designed for campaign and you were just also allowed to use it in multiplayer. After all, its practically impossible to get anywhere on legendary without a plasma rifle, and AI aren't as good at dodging needler shots. My theory is just that back then they probably didn't really address multiplayer very much, although they do now.
I don't need a plasma rifle to beat the campaign, but they're quite powerful. You make some good observations regarding Bungie's focus on campaign over multiplayer, which ironically turned for the worse in Halo 2.

  • 02.13.2008 5:29 PM PDT