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  • Subject: Why is the Halo CE pistol unbalanced?
Subject: Why is the Halo CE pistol unbalanced?
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Posted by: Master Kim
I don't need a plasma rifle to beat the campaign, but they're quite powerful. You make some good observations regarding Bungie's focus on campaign over multiplayer, which ironically turned for the worse in Halo 2.
If its on legendary, I definitely need a plasma rifle(or a plasma pistol, at the very least). Then again, I can't even really beat the second level on legendary either, because I can never kill an elite in the beginning without dying or running out of ammo. Also, thanks for complementing my observation :) . I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that last part though. Do you mean they turned more towards multiplayer and ironically it ended up being bad, or that they turned towards multiplayer and the fact that it used to be more campaign-focused was ironic? or did you mean something else along those lines?

  • 02.13.2008 7:34 PM PDT
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Still, use the pistol, it's great. It's not over powered. It's an equal opportunity killing device, learn to handle that.

Edit: If you want to know what I consider over-powered, I'll tell you right now. In Counter-Strike, the AWP is completely overkill and excessive. 436 damage shots in the knees. That's nearly 4 and a half kills in one shot. That sir, is over-powered.

[Edited on 02.14.2008 12:15 AM PST]

  • 02.14.2008 12:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: Rhudebaker
Still, use the pistol, it's great. It's not over powered. It's an equal opportunity killing device, learn to handle that.

I can easily hold my own using the pistol, it's not like I'm talking from a position where I'm constantly killed in-game because of it. I can "handle it" in a way that my k/d ratio is typically among the better ones in a match. My inexperience isn't the problem here.

If the game was just pistols & trio vs pistols & trio, yes, the pistol would be balanced. But the game isn't. It's overpowered because the other "main" weapons perform poorly in comparison.

(If you were talking to the other guy, apologies)

  • 02.14.2008 12:46 AM PDT
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Posted by: Rade9098
Posted by: Master Kim
I don't need a plasma rifle to beat the campaign, but they're quite powerful. You make some good observations regarding Bungie's focus on campaign over multiplayer, which ironically turned for the worse in Halo 2.
If its on legendary, I definitely need a plasma rifle(or a plasma pistol, at the very least). Then again, I can't even really beat the second level on legendary either, because I can never kill an elite in the beginning without dying or running out of ammo. Also, thanks for complementing my observation :) . I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that last part though. Do you mean they turned more towards multiplayer and ironically it ended up being bad, or that they turned towards multiplayer and the fact that it used to be more campaign-focused was ironic? or did you mean something else along those lines?
The former.

Plasma pistol definitely owns on Legendary.

And yes, the AWP is indeed over powered.

  • 02.14.2008 3:20 AM PDT

On Waypoint I'm rocketFox;
http://halo.xbox.com/forums/members/rocketfox/default.aspx

Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

H1 Plasma Pistol is a real menace. Fires justs as quick as the PR in my experience of it but with an overcharge to boot.

It's changed a lot through the series.

  • 02.14.2008 9:19 AM PDT
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Posted by: flamedude
H1 Plasma Pistol is a real menace. Fires justs as quick as the PR in my experience of it but with an overcharge to boot.

It's changed a lot through the series.
True that. I agree with the potency of the plasma pistol in the first game. I loved charge-sticking Elites, which was especially effective on Legendary.

  • 02.14.2008 12:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: Master Kim
Posted by: flamedude
H1 Plasma Pistol is a real menace. Fires justs as quick as the PR in my experience of it but with an overcharge to boot.

It's changed a lot through the series.
True that. I agree with the potency of the plasma pistol in the first game. I loved charge-sticking Elites, which was especially effective on Legendary.
You know, I just realized I have only really used plasma pistols in campaign when i started with them.... that's something i should probably change.

  • 02.14.2008 3:41 PM PDT
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You know, I just realized I have only really used plasma pistols in campaign when i started with them.... that's something i should probably change


You are exactly right. The PP is probably the most useful weapon in the whole game. There are ways to use it to your advantage, and you can use it in some way against every enemy and vehicle in the game (campaign wise). I have changed my play style over the years, I change things up on purpose. It is funny when I do not allow myself to use the PP, I find myself cursing me, cause the PP makes some things just fun to do!

  • 02.16.2008 1:10 PM PDT
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Its funny, though, because just about everyone I know who plays Halo thinks the pistol sucks... I guess it's really unappreciated, and people never use it long enough to find how good it is... either that or people are too lazy to press a trigger multiple times in order to fire rapidly.

  • 02.16.2008 8:14 PM PDT

Halo: CE > > Halo 3 > Halo: Reach = Halo 2

Posted by: MasterStryder
Actually,the reason the pistol was overpowered was because there was a bug at the very last moment before the game shipped.
This bug made the pistol do double damage,but because they reached the deadline and had to ship they where not able to fix it in time.

They talk about this in of the latest podcast's.

I'll need some proof - an actual reference, to believe that one.

6 shots to kill... that would have been fuggin ridiculous.

[Edited on 02.17.2008 3:52 AM PST]

  • 02.17.2008 3:48 AM PDT
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It is true that in the podcast they mentioned it was given twice as much power, they didn't really say what did it. They said they didn't really know, but they thought that either somebody slipped it in or it was a bug, I think. This is all from what I remember from listening to that podcast about 2 weeks ago, though, so I'm not sure how accurate it is. And if you want to listen to it yourself, I'm pretty sure its this one.

  • 02.17.2008 8:43 AM PDT

I like my Covenant like i like my woman, screamin and with a sticky on there face.

you see your all missing the point its not overpowered because everyone started with one so everyone is equal. I was just mad when they completely wrecked the dhotgun in halo 2 from 1 i mean the shotgun does no damage from anywere more than 10 ft in halo 2. The needler was also quite useful in the halo 1 campaign to take out those elites lol

  • 02.17.2008 9:54 AM PDT

If I had a Rocket Launcher...

Shut up and get behind me... Sir!

The cable. I'm going to cut it.

Awesomeness would ensue.

Posted by: Botolf
Posted by: Rhudebaker
It's a good weapon to use. What's the beef?

My beef is that it outdoes the other "mainstream" weapons (ugh, can't word it any better atm) by a huge margin.
No, it doesn't.
If anything, the pistol is what balances the game. It was great for medium range, and while it wasn't as good as the specialized weapons for the other ranges (Shotgun, Sniper Rifle.), it performed decently there as well.

It's a jack of all trades, not a BFG.

  • 02.17.2008 10:36 AM PDT
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Posted by: Schlatter493No, it doesn't.
If anything, the pistol is what balances the game. It was great for medium range, and while it wasn't as good as the specialized weapons for the other ranges (Shotgun, Sniper Rifle.), it performed decently there as well.

It's a jack of all trades, not a BFG.

Yes, it does.

It outperforms the other main weapons to the point nobody likes picking them up, and they rarely do. I'll pick up the other "main weapons" if I'm feeling in a mood to be different, that doesn't say great things about the gun balance :|

  • 02.17.2008 3:34 PM PDT
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Posted by: Shotgun master
you see your all missing the point its not overpowered because everyone started with one so everyone is equal. I was just mad when they completely wrecked the dhotgun in halo 2 from 1 i mean the shotgun does no damage from anywere more than 10 ft in halo 2. The needler was also quite useful in the halo 1 campaign to take out those elites lol

Giving everyone the same weapon to start with doesn't magically solve balance issues, if anything, it just worsens how underused the other "main" weapons are.

  • 02.17.2008 3:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: Botolf
Giving everyone the same weapon to start with doesn't magically solve balance issues, if anything, it just worsens how underused the other "main" weapons are.

You seem to think that every weapon should be used in a game, and that more weapons to choose from creates balance.

The Rocket Launcher has an amazing blast radius that makes it a very valuable weapon to pick up. As long as the RL user is paying attention to what's going on around him, he will be able to keep his own very easily against a pistol user.

The Sniper Rifle is very good for extremely long range shots, but can be kept out of scope by a pistol wielder. At a certain range, it will not be outdone by the pistol, but won't be able to get in scope, and will only be killed if he stays out for too long.

The Plasma Rifle is a very valuable gun in certain situations. If you don't think this, then I doubt you've ever played Halo multiplayer with decent opponents. You can freeze an enemy in their tracks, and either circle around them to get the kill, or go in with the BLB and take them out. It's especially useful when flanking an opponent even when they have an OS.

AR- It's a good backup gun. If you're cornered with no ammo, you stand a fighting chance at close range, and preforms well in it's close range suite.

Shotgun- Extremely good close range weapon that will only be taken out by a Pistol (at close range) if the Shotgun wielder fires too early and allows the Pistol to start backpedaling.





  • 02.17.2008 5:02 PM PDT
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Also, back to the main point of more weapons equals more balance, having five weapons to fill the same role does not create balance.

If there is one gun that anyone can use, then the only advantage anyone can have is map position, powerups, and skill.

If everyone has a good all-purpose gun that works very well in the right hands, then you have more balance.

Go play Halo with a person that has never played Halo before, and only use a pistol, and allow them to use whatever weapon they would like. You will most likely win in almost any situation, just because of the skill factor.

Change the rules, and only use an AR. You will probably lose to Rockets, Sniper or Shotgun, nine times out of ten.

You'll see why the pistol creates balance by leveling the playing field.

  • 02.17.2008 5:09 PM PDT
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You seem to think that every weapon should be used in a game,
Yes, and you should too. Weapons that are barely used are pointless additions and shouldn't have been added in the first place.

and that more weapons to choose from creates balance.
I never said this. If all the new weapons can be balanced, that will create balance. Adding in more weapons alone does nothing.

----

The Rocket Launcher has an amazing blast radius that makes it a very valuable weapon to pick up. As long as the RL user is paying attention to what's going on around him, he will be able to keep his own very easily against a pistol user.
Trio weapon, not a "main" weapon.

The Sniper Rifle is very good for extremely long range shots, but can be kept out of scope by a pistol wielder. At a certain range, it will not be outdone by the pistol, but won't be able to get in scope, and will only be killed if he stays out for too long.
Trio weapon, not a "main" weapon.

The Plasma Rifle is a very valuable gun in certain situations. If you don't think this, then I doubt you've ever played Halo multiplayer with decent opponents. You can freeze an enemy in their tracks, and either circle around them to get the kill, or go in with the BLB and take them out. It's especially useful when flanking an opponent even when they have an OS.
I've played a lot of Halo multiplayer, so I believe I can say that the PR isn't nearly powerful enough to warrant much use.

AR- It's a good backup gun. If you're cornered with no ammo, you stand a fighting chance at close range, and preforms well in it's close range suite.
Not powerful enough in my experience, the lack of accuracy is my main grief with it.

Shotgun- Extremely good close range weapon that will only be taken out by a Pistol (at close range) if the Shotgun wielder fires too early and allows the Pistol to start backpedaling.
Trio weapon, not a "main" weapon.

If there is one gun that anyone can use, then the only advantage anyone can have is map position, powerups, and skill.

If everyone has a good all-purpose gun that works very well in the right hands, then you have more balance.

Not if it's to the detriment of all the other "main" weapons, you don't.

Go play Halo with a person that has never played Halo before, and only use a pistol, and allow them to use whatever weapon they would like. You will most likely win in almost any situation, just because of the skill factor.
You don't have to land headshots to tear people apart with the pistol, skill is pretty moot.

Change the rules, and only use an AR. You will probably lose to Rockets, Sniper or Shotgun, nine times out of ten.
That's because you're comparing the performance of trio weapons to "main" weapons, its a stupid comparison. Trio weapons are always designed to have more punch than "main" weapons, it's a FPS constant, pretty much.

"Change the rules, and only use an AR, PP, PR, Needler. You will probably lose to the pistol"

You'll see why the pistol creates balance by leveling the playing field.
The pistol destroys balance by outshining every single "main" weapon, and it shows. Halo multiplayer degrades into people using trio weapons and the pistol, and not much else. It's boring.

  • 02.17.2008 7:02 PM PDT
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Okay, I went and played it just to remember. I played on easy. And it didn't kick the can as hard as you guys accuse it of doing. Get over it.

  • 02.17.2008 7:52 PM PDT
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Posted by: Rade9098
It is true that in the podcast they mentioned it was given twice as much power, they didn't really say what did it. They said they didn't really know, but they thought that either somebody slipped it in or it was a bug, I think. This is all from what I remember from listening to that podcast about 2 weeks ago, though, so I'm not sure how accurate it is. And if you want to listen to it yourself, I'm pretty sure its this one.

The discussion about the pistol begins at 16:14 and although the double damage pistol was posed in the question I don't think anyone confirms that story. They just don't know what happened. Besides, if it was a six shot kill weapon I personally don't think that will make me put it down. It still has the range and accuracy to inflict a good amount of damage well before any weapon can get within range to retaliate.

[Edited on 02.17.2008 10:22 PM PST]

  • 02.17.2008 10:20 PM PDT
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Posted by: Rhudebaker
Okay, I went and played it just to remember. I played on easy. And it didn't kick the can as hard as you guys accuse it of doing. Get over it.

Most of the talk is centered on multiplayer, Rhude. Sure, the other "main" guns have a lot of use in campaign, but not so much in multiplayer.

  • 02.18.2008 12:32 AM PDT

A few years from now nothing you do in this game will have mattered. Your rank, kill/death ratio, win/loss ratio, will get you no where. So, if your going to play the game, do it for the enjoyment.

It's basically like having a BR start with AR sidearm


thats y.

  • 02.18.2008 10:28 AM PDT
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I appreciate how powerful the H1 pistol is in multiplayer. I also hate it. It just didn't make sense that a pistol, supposed to be your secondary starting weapon, turned out to be more powerful than a rifle which was supposed to be your primary starting weapon, but was very underpowered. Still, I use it. Because it's a good gun. I'm glad that it's balanced in Halo 3. A weapon that can pull of 3sk's doesn't seem so ridiculous if it's a rifle.

  • 02.18.2008 6:35 PM PDT
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Wise men talk because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something.

It depends on my mood whether or not the pistol bothers me. On the one hand, everyone plays slayer pro, so everyone starts off with one. So i guess a weapon can't be unfair if everyone has it. But unfair is different than unbalanced. I think the pistol is unbalanced when its compared to other weapons. Like someone was saying, its possible to defeat the pistol with another weapon any time, as long as you are within that weapon's effective range. But once you leave the preferred range of any other weapon in the game the pistol dominates. Because of this most people carry a pistol either primary or secondary at almost all times in multiplayer. The main problem I have with the pistol is that it makes most battles in halo long range, and there's not really anyway for someone to make battles close range like the pistol is able to make them long range. This, of course, assumes that the level permits long range fighting. But think about the halo levels, there are only a handful I can think of that battles aren't fought 60% or more between pistols. Right off the top of my head those levels are chiron and chill out, possibly wizard and beaver creek depending on how other people want to fight. Other than that the pistol is a jack of all trades and is rarely discarded. So like I said, it depends on my mood whether or not I like the pistol. It combined with grenades stops almost all weapon whoring, however this might lead to the neglect of any other weapon that is not considered a power weapon.

[Edited on 02.20.2008 4:30 AM PST]

  • 02.20.2008 4:26 AM PDT
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Oh come on. Think about the golden gun. That was a one hit kill pistol. So was the gold PP7. And it shot 7 rounds at a much faster rate. Nobody complained about that. So knock it off.

Sounds to me like a guy pretty much confesses to changing it... "what I expected to happen... and the rest of that entire line, even when somebody else speaks up and makes it hardly understandable. And then they go back to trying to keep it a mystery.

[Edited on 02.20.2008 10:11 PM PST]

  • 02.20.2008 10:00 PM PDT