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  • Subject: Implosion
Subject: Implosion
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  • Exalted Mythic Member

News? Podcasts? Machinima? Active forums? Competitions? Jaffa Cakes!? OMG!
Thee Warriors!

Best. Mod. Ever.

It’s one in morning and I’ve been sick for the past week, so if I come back to this tomorrow (Later today) and feel I made a bad decision or it is locked then so be it. I have my niche to seclude to. I have my mind to share.
I’ve stood back and secretly taken sides on this issue or that dispute over the past couple of days, but now I think it’s time I put my cards down on the table. Aside from the tension, uncertainty and bitterness that has plagued us recently, there is a far more important issue that lies in our hands, and it’s beginning to slip between our fingers.

As far as I can remember on my time on Bungie.net we’ve had our doubts. Being so attached to Bungie we have joined them in the ride across the harsh landscapes of gaming galore. The heights of Halo CE to the ultimately overpopulated yet criticized Halo 3. We as a community are doomed to tread the same ground as our developers and we must accept it. At no point in the last few years has the community ‘died’. Not until perhaps a few nights ago. As diluted as that more considerate gene has been and as tested it has been against the constant flow of brutal forum fodder, we have always had each other. Members have founded their own websites, some of us secluded to the Chapters and others remain hidden in chat rooms, but we’re all still a part of that little network. I can splay out my hand a write down the separate demographics of the Bungie following, name the key characters within each of the smaller sub communities and I could always draw a line through them all. A single parallel that bonded them like nothing else I know. I felt like a character who could step forwards from that single place I chose to reside and be acknowledged without assumptions or prevarications cast against me.

As time grew on, the fan base did too. It stretched those distances and it became harder to communicate. Many of us found ourselves in a new and isolated environment, because Bungie has never been this big. They’ve never treated themselves as a business. Always a part of something inspiring. The seed of a great community. And that’s what this is; a community, not a business. A few weeks ago I saw a picture of Joe Staten attempting to club someone with a life sized Brute hammer. That’s one angle added to the separation Bungie has from other developers. The rules are being broken as Bungie have grown through such tremendous barriers and still remain much of what they were in 1991. It’s a simple fact that with 800,000 people playing one of your video games a day you will never be able to get control. The entirety of Bungie’s older fan base is comparable to the Halo 3 forum. In a short time the scales have been thrown off a bridge and this is what we get.

There is one constant however; that group of people who care passionately about Bungie. The people from MOAP, HIH, the Jumpers, BFO, RvB and many more. They’ve always been the rock that were whining and mocking and making Bungie.net a great experience. As far as they have been separated by the sheer influx of outsiders, they were always a constant. And now that’s failing. I could outline the reasons behind what problems we have with the moderators, the Recon armour, ranking and certain threads, but I expect you’re all tired of them, and it shows.

The other night the seams began to rupture and instead of being worn down from the outside, we are becoming our own worst enemy. We’re imploding with the years of gently laid down negativity, and if it continues, there will be nothing left to salvage. It will be gone because we couldn’t get along with the people who are looking for the same solutions as us. A prime example is happening to me right now. I’m considering whether or not I should mention that I have no intentions of getting Recon by Bungie’s good graces through this thread. Should I mention I don’t have an Xbox anyway? I shouldn’t have to. This is the kind of displacement I am talking about. I just don’t know what I can say, who I can trust or where to turn to.

I won’t leave you to fumble around with several points and make your own conclusions. I’m giving you one. My thesis, solution and prayer for the next few months. No cowbell, no crap. It’s so simple. Hang on.
Bungie became a bestselling developer overnight, and they will lose that place just a quickly. Their next project is going to require every penny of effort and Marty’s salary to get it the undoubted attention it will deserve and the dust always settles and people always pull through. I want all of us to do just that. Of course it’s going to be hard. Of course we have no momentum and need to work hard to bring it back again, but that is what has to be done to get though this. Our forums won’t be like this forever. We will return to the time of juvenile speculation, references to Stosh and intelligent people acting immaturely. That’s what we were and I hope it’s what we can become again. Let’s bring back the Septagon I once knew.

  • 02.19.2008 10:45 PM PDT

Fight hard, break bones >{o

Dang. Good post.

I'm going to come back here more often. I forgot how much I enjoyed the public forums. They are worth the occasional headache.

  • 02.19.2008 10:55 PM PDT
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I blame Stosh for all that has happened.

  • 02.19.2008 10:55 PM PDT
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Well I figure there should be at least one thread open for discussion about the current situation, and this may as well be it.

Good post.

Left open because it's MATURE and LOGICAL
-TGP-

[Edited on 02.19.2008 11:15 PM PST]

  • 02.19.2008 11:01 PM PDT
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Dude, there is no hope, just accept it.

  • 02.19.2008 11:03 PM PDT

Good point.

I'm still sour over the sigs though.

  • 02.19.2008 11:05 PM PDT

"Who is the happier man - he who has braved the storm of life and lived, or he who was content to sit on shore and merely exist?" - Hunter S. Thompson

My God, it has been at least two years since I came out to the public forums. If posts here continue to be like this, I just might come back.

  • 02.19.2008 11:08 PM PDT
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It'll all happen again, in all likelihood. A few years down the road, when people have forgotten, when history repeats itself...

  • 02.19.2008 11:08 PM PDT
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GT: AccidentsProne

"A wise man once told me don't argue with fools, cause people from a distance can't tell who is who"

Great post,

Thank you TGP for that post, Yoozel probably would have nuked this thread without it.

  • 02.19.2008 11:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: Primum Agmen
A tosser is the same as a wanker. To toss oneself off is to fondle the trouser weasel.


Achronos

Joe Staten

I'd usually write a long well thought post but this one left me without words. Awesome post, really enjoyed it.

[Edited on 02.19.2008 11:11 PM PST]

  • 02.19.2008 11:10 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Mourne not your comrades who must dwell / too strong to strive -
Within each steel-bound coffin of a cell, / Buried alive;
But rather mourne the apathetic throng / The cowed, and the meek -
Who see the world’s great anguish and its wrong / And dare not speak.

[group]167741|Diner|Where's the food?[/group]

A great post, and a damn fine point. I've been waiting for the announcement of the next Bungie title. I honestly think that that is the only thing that can bring this place -- this whole place -- back to some sort of community spirit.

  • 02.19.2008 11:13 PM PDT

Amazing post BTW.

Posted by: Opastar1
Dude, there is no hope, just accept it.

You're very negative, aren't you? Obviously something happened a couple days ago that ruined the community. If we could only figure out what that was (Maybe it was Valentine's day). Considering how Valentine's day brings out the immature posters talking about crap and the opposite sex and the other posters start talking about Recon and such because of the tournament. I guess that was too much for the community to handle.

I hate the community right now (I have a huge headache now). I might take a short vacation from this site. But, we can always hope for a brighter Bungie.net.

Ow.

Edit: But maybe it's just a natural change. Maybe it isn't something that will corrupt the community.

[Edited on 02.19.2008 11:18 PM PST]

  • 02.19.2008 11:14 PM PDT
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SPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!

I don't know why people are freaking out. I don't know why people are giving a certain few users problems. I don't understand the threat.

You're right though. This community is going bonkers because of the Halo games. Now that those are (hopefully) finished, it will change eventually. The question is; what will it become? Looking at the events from the past few days, its not looking good to me. The people who are involved in our recent problems are mostly the "diehard" Bungie fans. Is that kind of behavior something we can expect frequently when the Halo hype dies down? I hope not.

Quite a few of the users who have been here a while are constantly lamenting over "the old days". While a portion of that is human nature, some of it has to be warranted. There has to be something that was lost in translation, which this community can no longer give to some people. Well, as the real world is frequently a cold and harsh place, portions of that has to leak through to this virtual world as well. Things change. Some for the better, some for the worse. We all understand that.

When the Halo hype dies down, and we're left with true Bungie fans again, what will we do? Look forward to Bungie's next game? Of course. Engage in completely unwarranted and uncivil nonsense? I hope not. There is no place here, and there has never been a want for impetuous behavior. If you want to act that way, do it elsewhere. If you want to be a part of an awesome community, then act likes its a community, and not a special place for a certain few only.

I'm probably not going anywhere. That may disappoint some of you, but guess what; I don't care. I will stay here. I will continue to try to foster decent interactions between people on this site. All you have to do is...well...play nice with one another. If you can do that, we'll all be fine.

  • 02.19.2008 11:17 PM PDT

Fight hard, break bones >{o

um ya.

you shut me up, lol.

[Edited on 02.19.2008 11:20 PM PST]

  • 02.19.2008 11:19 PM PDT

Finishing the fight since 1988!

The Column Underground: Made of Win

Apparently I need to post this here.

I remember the good ol' days. When people drifted lazily around the Bungie.net forums and insulted eachother in fun and overall had a jolly good time. Or something like resembling jolly and good. The point is that things were actually worth looking at. People were for the most part friendly, nobody was sucking anyone off for attention, nobody was jockeying for position in line to be a mod down the line, and groups were a fantastic feature of the forums. Groups like Bungie Fans Online (formerly ODST_Spartans), the Mob of Angry Peasants, Mr. Smiley's XBox Lounge, and many others were legitimately fun to visit and read.

About 2 years ago I became a WoW addict and left the then exciting and interesting forums behind. A year of WoW and a bunch of time off after that, and I came back to an extremely "stripped down" version of the Bungie.net community. I joined a few groups, which I typically posted in for a while then abandoned, tried posting in the Halo 3 forum but eventually gave in to the majorities of idiots, even wrote a massive, complete, and over 95% accurate analysis of the E3 2007 Halo 3 trailer. I moved on from that forum when the IRIS ARG started, and after a short stint being active on the CompoundIntelligence forums, I hopped on the IRC for said group and didn't look back until it was over. I grew to something of importance there, but alas, the ARG is over.

I tried again to get back into Bungie.net, posting semi-regularly in the Septagon, but within a short time I was once again annoyed with the community.

The point is this forum has gone to crap. Far past it even. Back in the day, I would spend hours on Bungie.net. Today, I spend maybe 5 or 10 minutes a month on it. Hell, I'm only posting this right now because I heard on IRC about a big throwdown or somesuch. Apparently I'm likely to be banned for this, but if I actually do get banned for voicing an opinion, then I'm not especially sure I need to be on the forums.

The community is absolutely horrendous these days, and I really can't find much on the forums that can draw me away from essentially ANYTHING else that I'm up to at the moment. So if you've managed to read all the way to here, I ask you to clean up your -blam!- act and become part of the solution. Keep your nose as brown as it is without sticking it up anuses, post as yourself, not just some drone doing as he is told, and maybe just hang out in the forums instead of taking them so damned seriously. Don't just suck at the teet that is Bungie, let your balls drop and put down that boob. I've run out of analogies.

For those of you who might realize that I Admin Halo3Planet, this is a personal opinion and should not reflect on the site if I get banned for it. While I don't consider this unfriendly, I assure you that the rest of our community isn't so inflammatory.

  • 02.19.2008 11:32 PM PDT
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It's not as hard or as complicated (seemingly) as everyone is making it out to be. If you're tired of the Forums or the Community, leave it. It alleviates all of this tension. If you have hope that it will all even out, stop by every few months (enough to keep your account).

The problem to/for me seems to be that people check B.net so often. They do it when they have time at work, or school or at home. What do I do with that time? Something else. I mean, the fact that these complaining members keep lurking and posting on the forums so much is testament to the fact that it really doesn't bother them enough.

Us oldbies have to remember, it's not as different now as it was then. It's just bigger now. I seem to remember quite the -blam!-ing back in Halo 2 days. Just roll with it, and if you don't want to, just leave (temporary or otherwise). This is what the community is right now. There is only so far you can get with complaining and offering insights and advices, and personally I think that the zenith has been reached.

Just take it for what it is, it shouldn't be that upsetting or am I wrong?

I mean, I can understand both sides. I'm highly irritated by the amount of this post or that post and this type of user and that type of user. That's the community though, and you know what? It isn't bad enough for me to stop frequenting it.


Now, I've struggled with summing this up but here's a shot. "We" want the community as we remember it. "They" want a community. We have a bit of trouble coping with it, it's going in a direction that is different and "wrong". They don't even realize, it's still a good community for them where they can come and discuss things.

Why are we tired of progression (just because we don't like or perhaps understand how it can be so blatantly "stupid" <That said, you see a relationship between young and old in RL?>)? Sure it can be annoying and repetitive but take it for what it is. The "new" community, if you can call it that. It's still just the same community. Just add a couple of new things and change the lingo.

  • 02.19.2008 11:48 PM PDT

"This party's over." ~Mace Windu
Bruce Lee > Chuck Norris
PPPPPP--POWER!

Absolutely spot on. I am impressed and I agree with you Ciaran. You may say that I haven't had enough experience here on the forums to truly understand what you all are talking about, but if for nothing else, I definitely feel for you. In time the forum will recover itself.

(Ironically while I was reading your post, I randomly listened to The Breaking of the Fellowship from the Lord of the Rings. Coincidence? I hope not.)

  • 02.20.2008 12:22 AM PDT

Fight hard, break bones >{o

Posted by: High Truth
It's not as hard or as complicated (seemingly) as everyone is making it out to be. If you're tired of the Forums or the Community, leave it. It alleviates all of this tension. If you have hope that it will all even out, stop by every few months (enough to keep your account).

The problem to/for me seems to be that people check B.net so often. They do it when they have time at work, or school or at home. What do I do with that time? Something else. I mean, the fact that these complaining members keep lurking and posting on the forums so much is testament to the fact that it really doesn't bother them enough.

Us oldbies have to remember, it's not as different now as it was then. It's just bigger now. I seem to remember quite the -blam!-ing back in Halo 2 days. Just roll with it, and if you don't want to, just leave (temporary or otherwise). This is what the community is right now. There is only so far you can get with complaining and offering insights and advices, and personally I think that the zenith has been reached.

Just take it for what it is, it shouldn't be that upsetting or am I wrong?

I mean, I can understand both sides. I'm highly irritated by the amount of this post or that post and this type of user and that type of user. That's the community though, and you know what? It isn't bad enough for me to stop frequenting it.


Now, I've struggled with summing this up but here's a shot. "We" want the community as we remember it. "They" want a community. We have a bit of trouble coping with it, it's going in a direction that is different and "wrong". They don't even realize, it's still a good community for them where they can come and discuss things.

Why are we tired of progression (just because we don't like or perhaps understand how it can be so blatantly "stupid" <That said, you see a relationship between young and old in RL?>)? Sure it can be annoying and repetitive but take it for what it is. The "new" community, if you can call it that. It's still just the same community. Just add a couple of new things and change the lingo.
another good post.

  • 02.20.2008 12:27 AM PDT

I'm not that active, but never dead.

I seriously have no idea what you guys are talking about.

Doesn't anyone remember the community turning on Nick007 and pretty much forcing him to leave in the summer of 03?

What about MASTER_XBOX, spamming up the Underground with repeat topics and trolling in winter 03'?

Everything has changed, nothing is different. You just don't remember.

-MAZ

  • 02.20.2008 12:38 AM PDT

yoo•zel- ('yoo-zhul): slang: vb.

Officium quod Fidelitas.

Oh it was tempting...

Posted by: Accidentus
Great post,

Thank you TGP for that post, Yoozel probably would have nuked this thread without it.

  • 02.20.2008 12:45 AM PDT
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Mourne not your comrades who must dwell / too strong to strive -
Within each steel-bound coffin of a cell, / Buried alive;
But rather mourne the apathetic throng / The cowed, and the meek -
Who see the world’s great anguish and its wrong / And dare not speak.

[group]167741|Diner|Where's the food?[/group]

Posted by: AlexZander
I seriously have no idea what you guys are talking about.

Doesn't anyone remember the community turning on Nick007 and pretty much forcing him to leave in the summer of 03?

What about MASTER_XBOX, spamming up the Underground with repeat topics and trolling in winter 03'?

Everything has changed, nothing is different. You just don't remember.

-MAZ
First of all, you know that most of us aren't going to remember '03... 2004 seems to be a popular cutoff point.

But there are two things that are very different. The first is that there are more people. More people means more idiots, but more importantly, it means more disconnection. As Pezz mentioned somewhere, if Bungie announces a new game that isn't halo, there is a fair chance that many of the "zomg halo is the only thing bungie has ever done" people will leave after a while. It will also sort out some of the people who have come here for Halo, but may realize that they want to stay anyways. That kind of "evolution" may be helpful for the community.

Secondly, a new IP will give us something to talk about. I mean, really, do you want to talk about Halo any more? I know I'm pretty much sick of hearing about it. Many older members are as well. A new game will hopefull ignite that passion that I remember having when I first got into the Halo universe.

I do think you're partly right though. Nothing has really changed in a long time. Everything seems... stale, to me. Same old topics all the time. I hope that a new project will put some spice back into this community for a while, and maybe we will even get a break from this massive amount of newcomers. It's hard to get to know anyone with so many new people joining constantly.

  • 02.20.2008 12:49 AM PDT

Official Town Drunk of Sandwichia. Nation of the Flood.
MBT - Impossible Just Happened
* How is it that "Fat Chance" and "Slim Chance" mean the same thing?
* If you choke a Smurf, what color will it turn?

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While reading this one thing came to my mind.

A person is smart, but people are idiots.

Since the launch of halo, the person part of these forums has been slipping away into the mob of people and taking all intelligence with it. There isn't much left now. it's mostly confined and in caged within the older, more mature and knowledgeable members of these forums. Not much we can do about it currently other then hope that the people leave so that the person can return. But that can only be done with time.

It would seem that the days of the carefully constructed your mom joke that we all know and love are over. That makes me sad as I was an active participant of it. :(

But the forums have a deep cut of sorts. It will take time to heal, but in the end it will be fine.

[Edited on 02.20.2008 12:58 AM PST]

  • 02.20.2008 12:55 AM PDT
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Posted by: spartakus14
While reading this one thing came to my mind.

A person is smart, but people are idiots.

Since the launch of halo, the person part of these forums has been slipping away into the mob of people and taking all intelligence with it. There isn't much left now. it's mostly confined and in caged within the older, more mature and knowledgeable members of these forums. Not much we can do about it currently other then hope that the people leave so that the person can return. But that can only be done with time.

It would seem that the days of the carefully constructed your mom joke that we all know and love are over. That makes me sad as I was an active participant of it. :(

But the forums have a deep cut of sorts. It will take time to heal, but in the end it will be fine.

Your mom is fine. Dang fine.

Anyway, I've always taken the stance that nothing has really changed, it's just grown. So I suppose that I agree with the general idea that if people leave, this place will be "better." But only if the people who leave are people who didn't contribute in the first place. What I've noticed in the past couple of weeks is that a lot of people who I thought were long gone, and who really are the reason I came to enjoy this place, came back.

Now sure, the threads that have been created are still relatively the same, but I think the posts in the threads have become generally more creative, intelligent, and on occasion, fun. of course, I'm speaking in terms of the two Forums I frequent, the Flood and the Septagon, but to me, that's where the "community" is. The gamers (and the community can be included in this) can go to their respective Forums. But the community, or at least the community I know, lies within these two Forums.

I usually come to these threads with a cynical statement about how it's just the internet and it doesn't really matter...and while I still believe that, since this thread took a different view on the state of the Forums, I thought I would too.

  • 02.20.2008 1:07 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

This is the single most interesting thread I have ever had the pleasure of reading on the bungie forums. I may not have been around for long when the forums were still quiet, desolate and welcoming, but I do know that hopefully with the ending of the Halo series we can eventually return to such a state.

I have always been a fan of smaller forums. The community is always a close knit group of people who know how to have a good time and not cross too many lines. Its just a bunch of friends discussing what they love to discuss and other shenanigans. With larger forums, you lose the individuality to the mass and end up with just "the community" and not any specific members, You then begin to lose yourself in that mob of people, not knowing if you are really a member or just a shadow among the rest.

My goal in most forums is to not be a shadow, but a light. One who lights the path and helps people out, make the community a better place for everyone who joins and interacts with it. But with this large number of people that is almost impossible, my words are just washed away with the rest of the river that is the b.net forums. I try to aspire for a position that may let me have a greater effect on what happens here, but I am close to abandoning all hope for such a thing.

Unless this place shrinks, or implodes as you so violently put it, we may never see any progress here, just a perpetual whirlpool of conversation.

[Edited on 02.20.2008 1:26 AM PST]

  • 02.20.2008 1:25 AM PDT

Fight hard, break bones >{o

i just have to bring up that this is the reason God created groups.

message the people you like from the public forums and get a good group going. model it after the forum you like and keep visiting that forum for new members.

seems like a viable solution until people leave at least.

  • 02.20.2008 1:57 AM PDT