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Destinypedia - The Wiki for Bungie's Destiny
Posted by: DEATHPIMP72
Anyone but Foman. He smells like cheese.

Death v1 -- great post.

  • 02.21.2008 8:39 AM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

Posted by: evilcam
I don't know why people are freaking out. I don't know why people are giving a certain few users problems. I don't understand the threat.


I don't have anything against you, evilcam, but I'm going to pick on this part of your post (nothing against the rest of what you said). Part of the problem is because you don't see the "threat," if you can call it that. As a moderator, I think it's part of your job to understand why certain well-known users will get attacked. You have to be slightly impartial so that you can view both sides with more equality.

Anyway, the problem has its roots in jealousy. I'm going to try to not name names here, but the posts that singled out a few members a few days ago were, yes, a result of a kind of jealousy, on both sides. The attackers were jealous of those they attacked because those they attacked have a sort of blissful ignorance regarding the community. That ignorance is fine, and is merely the result of not having existed in the older days that the attackers remember. Does this discredit the attackers? No, I personally don't think so. I myself have some of this jealousy, but I wouldn't say that says anything about my character. It's natural to have it. It gives us a goal, and life without goals is meaningless.

Those that were attacked have several forms of jealousy as well. Specifically, the users that were singled out were jealous for power. Many of them want Modship. This is debatable, but it's what I, and many others, do actually think. They brown-nose, and their goody-two-shoes characters were all just acts. The attackers had reason to single them out for the sole purpose of taking them down a few pegs. Chipping away at some of the arrogant shell that they hide behind. You can debate this with me all you want, but you won't change my mind. I saw that shield of arrogance every time I spoke out against something that Bungie did that I had ethical disagreements with. I know its there.

Attack me for saying this all you will. It's pointless. I'll hold my ground with determination. Many people on these forums need to be taught a lesson of humility. Those that attack me for saying what I just said merely confirms what I think about their character.

Jumping back to the other side, did they go to far? Was singling out people all that necessary? I think it could have been necessary, but there should have been a few preliminary posts that were not outright attacks. Some of the attackers acted too quickly, a fault they should learn to admit Although, since some of them were banned, which solves nothing, they probably won't learn a damn thing. GOOD JOB! Well, I suppose it's not entirely necessary to have them learn anything, but to be honest, keeping around a few sour community members can be beneficial. Rather than banning them, keep their threads locked, and see what they do next. If they really aren't learning a damn thing, then ban them, as it will have become obvious that in not learning, they won't help the community. However, if they do learn of their own faults, they will be sure to make up for them in some way or another.

Some of you that were attacked took it way too seriously. Learn to hold your ground without appearing as arrogant as you are. You are YOUR OWN PERSON. Attacks cannot change that. It shouldn't affect you. Don't let it get to you (and some of you obviously did). Learn to take things with grains of salt, as they say. You're incapable of helping anyone in the community, including yourself, until you learn to do so.

And to clarify my personal views, as I said, yes, I am jealous. I'm jealous of those who would think the community is fine the way it is (up until a few days ago), since to me it is so obviously not. I'm not jealous for power. I'm not sucking up to anyone. I'm just someone who is bitter of that which used to be my home has become. Yes, this was a home, of sorts. A means of escape of the reality that I used to despise (high-school days). I could spend hours of my free-time here. It's not a matter of me "not having a life," but more because that real "life" outside of videogames and the internet was basically denied to me. I apologize for being bitter, but that's just how I am at the present.



  • 02.21.2008 9:58 AM PDT

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Shai... Did you just tell Evilcam to stop defending a member that's being picked on? That's how I read your post.

In my eyes, that's not bias. That's actually being fair, and doing his job the right way, as opposed to some people who are quite the opposite.

  • 02.21.2008 10:12 AM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

Maybe you should reread the post, Zag. Open your eyes. I didn't tell him to stop defending members, I told him that he needs to realized why those members are being attacked (and thus he should question why they need to be defended). The members were picked on for a reason. Should a moderator not bother to understand what that reason is in a case like this? If you say no, then I think you need to rethink the situation.

  • 02.21.2008 10:19 AM PDT

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Posted by: Shai Hulud
Maybe you should reread the post, Zag. Open your eyes. I didn't tell him to stop defending members, I told him that he needs to realized why those members are being attacked (and thus he should question why they need to be defended). The members were picked on for a reason.

And that was? Oh, right. Particular members act like goodie-two-shoes and post nice and grammatically correct. That's not a good reason. Sorry Shai.

Evilcam was merely pointing out he can't fathom why you guys are being such jerks. Not in those words, but hey. Are you really that big of a moron, Shai? There is out-right abuse and idiocy going on right now, and it needs to stop.

Your post right here says that they deserved (or even MIGHT HAVE deserved) to be picked on.

Give me a break.

  • 02.21.2008 10:23 AM PDT

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Posted by: Shai Hulud
Maybe you should reread the post, Zag. Open your eyes. I didn't tell him to stop defending members, I told him that he needs to realized why those members are being attacked (and thus he should question why they need to be defended). The members were picked on for a reason. Should a moderator not bother to understand what that reason is in a case like this? If you say no, then I think you need to rethink the situation.


Even if they did deserved to be attacked, which I'm not debating right now, did it have to be done on the public forums. Surely the people involved could have told those particular members what they thought of them without making it a spectacle.

  • 02.21.2008 10:27 AM PDT

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Posted by: Maimum FEAR
Even if they did deserved to be attacked, which I'm not debating right now, did it have to be done on the public forums. Surely the people involved could have told those particular members what they thought of them without making it a spectacle.

Not even that, Maximum FEAR. I don't care what people do, no one deserves to be attacked and harassed. It's called decency. It seems that a whole load of people are suddenly forgetting there's this "play nice" rule that I thought we all agreed to follow.

There's still no evidence that those people have done anything wrong. If anything, they're just getting harassed for always doing something right.

[Edited on 02.21.2008 10:32 AM PST]

  • 02.21.2008 10:30 AM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

Zag, you do realize you're doing exactly what I said someone like you would? If you wish me to stop, then stop proving I'm correct.

The abuse is not "out-right." There is reason behind it. Reason that I have pointed out clearly, yet you still cannot see it. It's not because they act goodie-two-shoes and post all nice. Not that at all. No where in my thread did I say that, and that post cannot be summed up as such. Whatever happened to logical analysis. Cool your head, Zag! Leave, and come back when you're ready to discuss the issue with no shell of arrogance.

My post is self-explainatory, but maybe I should basically say what I said in the very beginning again. Evilcam, and other mods, need to understand why they were being such jerks, as you said. I find it interesting that you're pinning this on me as well.

You make it very difficult to find any sort of common ground, Zag. You're too quick to choose sides on this. Stay in the middle until this washes over, and observe the effects. Observe what the causes were.

  • 02.21.2008 10:32 AM PDT

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Posted by: wHo iZ XtrEmE
Also we need to end this MLG/Anti-Mlg, Elites vs. Spartans bull-blam!- also.


So, we need to call back the banning machine, the thing that banned everything, the man who had a ban katana.

Shishka?

Makes sense to me.

Also, replying to my above few posts.

No one ever deserves to be attacked over the internet. It's rather childish and unwarranted. If people can't find anything better to do in there lives then so be it but those are the kind of people that will find it harder in life to make new friends because when you act like someone else long enough you become that person.



My post is self-explainatory, but maybe I should basically say what I said in the very beginning again. Evilcam, and other mods, need to understand why they were being such jerks, as you said. I find it interesting that you're pinning this on me as well.


No, i pretty much missed the reason in you post as well. Maybe it would be easier for Evilcam, and other mods, to see the reason if you provided them in a nice list that gets straight to the point rather then dancing around it.

[Edited on 02.21.2008 10:37 AM PST]

  • 02.21.2008 10:34 AM PDT

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Shai, you told Evilcam to think about why they might be getting harassed. Who says he hasn't? It's not his job to go "Oh, ok, he deserves it. Go right ahead."

It's his job to stop it, regardless of what he thinks. There are rules on this website (Again, the PLAY NICE RULE) which a lot of people have been breaking, and it's actually doing quite a bit of damage to some people. It's not just harmless fun or silly jokes. There are people who are being downright mean to certain members, and what's worse is that they think they're doing nothing wrong.

Clearly you've shown you think there's nothing wrong with harassing members. I don't know where you were raised.

  • 02.21.2008 10:35 AM PDT

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Posted by: SS_Zag1
Posted by: Maimum FEAR
Even if they did deserved to be attacked, which I'm not debating right now, did it have to be done on the public forums. Surely the people involved could have told those particular members what they thought of them without making it a spectacle.

Not even that, Maximum FEAR. I don't care what people do, no one deserves to be attacked and harassed. It's called decency. It seems that a whole load of people are suddenly forgetting there's this "place nice" rule that I thought we all agreed to follow.

There's still no evidence that those people have done anything wrong. If anything, they're just getting harassed for always doing something right.


Zag, I agree with you. But like I said I wasn't debating that point because I've already expressed my views on what happened. I didn't like what happened and I thought that those responsible should have known better.

<removed this>

Like you said no one deserved to be attacked or harassed. It seems stupid to me because all those members are doing is contributing to the community. Even if said members were only doing it in the hope of becoming a mod, is that such a bad thing? Regardless of the motive they are still contributing. Why attack them for that?

To me it seems like some people just believe that they can do what they like on this site, even though rules are there for [i]everybody/i].

[Edited on 02.21.2008 10:45 AM PST]

  • 02.21.2008 10:38 AM PDT

yoo•zel- ('yoo-zhul): slang: vb.

Officium quod Fidelitas.

So you're saying we should allow hazing because it would burst someone's ego bubble? That makes sense... a community death squad.

No one likes to be hazed, I could equally sit here and pick on each and everyone on this post for various reasons. I see a lot of egos that need to be crushed and despite what jealously dictates, it doesn't make it right. I suggest you look at this on the moral grounds... not the microplain that most people have narrowed this down too.


Posted by: Shai Hulud
Maybe you should reread the post, Zag. Open your eyes. I didn't tell him to stop defending members, I told him that he needs to realized why those members are being attacked (and thus he should question why they need to be defended). The members were picked on for a reason. Should a moderator not bother to understand what that reason is in a case like this? If you say no, then I think you need to rethink the situation.


[Edited on 02.21.2008 10:44 AM PST]

  • 02.21.2008 10:42 AM PDT
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Btw - polls on bungie.net mean absolutely nothing, so please don't use them to try and prove some kind of point.

~Achronos

I got to the site about two years ago 2006, actually longer than that with my other acct, but I have noticed a slow and steady decline of the site since that time to present day. The forums are just filled with chum and useless threads. 1/74 threads is actaully interesting, the rest are repeats or erroneous thoughts. I dont really know what could make it better other than to further break the site down into smaller and smaller factions. If the Halo 3 forum was spilt into multiple sub groups such as Halo 3 - CAmpaign, Halo 3 - multiplayer . I knw the idea is lousy but their should be some way to segregate things so its more communal. IDK . NICe , heartfelt post... Ifeel your pain.

  • 02.21.2008 10:47 AM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

Posted by: SS_Zag1
Shai, you told Evilcam to think about why they might be getting harassed. Who says he hasn't? It's not his job to go "Oh, ok, he deserves it. Go right ahead."

It's his job to stop it, regardless of what he thinks. There are rules on this website (Again, the PLAY NICE RULE) which a lot of people have been breaking, and it's actually doing quite a bit of damage to some people. It's not just harmless fun or silly jokes. There are people who are being downright mean to certain members, and what's worse is that they think they're doing nothing wrong.

Clearly you've shown you think there's nothing wrong with harassing members. I don't know where you were raised.


No, Zag, you are not thinking. Why would ANYONE let something like that continue? Yeah, it should be stopped. That goes without saying. Your judgments of me are not well-founded. The mods were right to stop it (not necessarily right to ban whom they did, in my opinion, as I have already stated that banning didn't necessarily solve the problem). Learn to take my words as they are written. Setting aside whether or not something should be stopped, that something, sooner or later, should be understood. You think a moderator can help the community without understanding what's wrong with it? I don't think so.

And just so you don't twist my words again, I'm going to to say that I don't think that evilcam doesn't help the community. Read that sentence three times until you understand what it means. Evilcam is fine for a mod. I have no quarrel with that, or with him (as I ALREADY STATED in the original post). I'm merely suggesting that he take another look at things, because in these circumstances, saying he doesn't understand why certain people were singled out is not going to cut it.

And the people that are being "mean," as you say, know they are breaking the rules. They know why they were banned. Those who were attacked were not at fault. See the language I'm using? Those who were attacked. This means that they were the victims. I do think they were victimized. I just know that there's reason behind it, and I for one believe that the reasons for it should be understood if any good will come from all of this. Without understanding it, none of you will learn anything, and the community will stay in the state that it is.

And stop attacking my character. It's not going to get you anywhere, Zag. You act as though I just shot your dog. I've done nothing wrong, except request that people try to understand what's going on. What is wrong with that, really? Is understanding a bad thing now? A no-no?

  • 02.21.2008 10:47 AM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

Posted by: Yoozel
So you're saying we should allow hazing because it would burst someone's ego bubble? That makes sense... a community death squad.

No one likes to be hazed, I could equally sit here and pick on each and everyone on this post for various reasons. I see a lot of egos that need to be crushed and despite what jealously dictates, it doesn't make it right. I suggest you look at this on the moral grounds... not the microplain that most people have narrowed this down too.


Posted by: Shai Hulud
Maybe you should reread the post, Zag. Open your eyes. I didn't tell him to stop defending members, I told him that he needs to realized why those members are being attacked (and thus he should question why they need to be defended). The members were picked on for a reason. Should a moderator not bother to understand what that reason is in a case like this? If you say no, then I think you need to rethink the situation.


Granted, Yoozel, but I'm not being so harsh or so radical. I'm merely suggesting that instead of just locking threads and turning your backs on potential reoccuring problems (which this is, since it's definitely happened before), try to understand why these events occur. If you do understand it, then show me that you do. Evilcam has not shown me that he knows what's going on (in fact, he stated specifically that he doesn't understand it. I merely called him out on that).

This happens in all real-world wars. No one bothers to understand why one side is doing what they do, and thus the war only continues. Sometimes it even escalates. Do you want things like this to continue? Splinter factions of the Bungie.net community lashing out at each other? I don't think anyone wants that. Only in understanding both sides of the problem can we learn to shake each other's hands and be done with it.

  • 02.21.2008 10:53 AM PDT

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~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Posted by: Shai Hulud
No, Zag, you are not thinking. Why would ANYONE let something like that continue? Yeah, it should be stopped. That goes without saying.

Then why am I here saying it? Because in your other post you clearly told Evilcam to even spend time questioning it. You've essentially said "It should go without saying", yet you still ask Evilcam to question it. How about instead Evilcam continues being a very good example and continuing to treat other people like human beings, instead of objects of amusement? Because there's a whole group of people right now sitting there giggling and laughing at the expense of others.
Your judgments of me are not well-founded.
They're merely founded off of what you say. I judge people by what they say and do. My judgments are entirely based on just that.

The mods were right to stop it (not necessarily right to ban whom they did, in my opinion, as I have already stated that banning didn't necessarily solve the problem).

Really? You honestly think they should allow that behavior, talk, and harassment? You honestly don't think banning those responsible does fix the problem? It certainly has helped, but clearly some of the posting in this thread shows it's not gone by any means.

Learn to take my words as they are written. Setting aside whether or not something should be stopped, that something, sooner or later, should be understood. You think a moderator can help the community without understanding what's wrong with it? I don't think so.

I think there's something wrong with it. There's a few individuals who think it's just down-right hilarious to beat the crap out of other members for trying to help out. That's what's wrong. That's what led to the bans. The bans were a fix. Obviously the problem is not gone yet.

And just so you don't twist my words again, I'm going to to say that I don't think that evilcam doesn't help the community. Read that sentence three times until you understand what it means. Evilcam is fine for a mod. I have no quarrel with that, or with him (as I ALREADY STATED in the original post). I'm merely suggesting that he take another look at things, because in these circumstances, saying he doesn't understand why certain people were singled out is not going to cut it.

And I'm merely questioning why you think he doesn't do that. From what I've seen, he has very good judgment, thinks things through, and doesn't let people get away with the crap you're asking people to be allowed to get away with. (And just so you don't say "I never said that." I want to point out yes, you did. You said you don't think anyone should've been banned for it.)

And the people that are being "mean," as you say, know they are breaking the rules. They know why they were banned. Those who were attacked were not at fault. See the language I'm using? Those who were attacked. This means that they were the victims. I do think they were victimized. I just know that there's reason behind it, and I for one believe that the reasons for it should be understood if any good will come from all of this. Without understanding it, none of you will learn anything, and the community will stay in the state that it is.

See, now you're going back on what you just said. I hope we're talking about the same mean people here. Because the only bans I know of ARE the people who were being mean.

And stop attacking my character. It's not going to get you anywhere, Zag. You act as though I just shot your dog. I've done nothing wrong, except request that people try to understand what's going on. What is wrong with that, really? Is understanding a bad thing now? A no-no?

Shot my dog, no. Hurt my friends, and are encouraging the interruption of me having a fun time here, YES.

And let's be clear; advocating certain acts is the same as assisting with them.

[Edited on 02.21.2008 11:08 AM PST]

  • 02.21.2008 10:57 AM PDT
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This thread needs more smiles, this always does the trick for me, or maybe we need to see things from a bit different perspective.

Some times we're just a little too worried about things that may or may not be broken. You don't always have to try fixing things, all problems look big under the microscope.

i know why certain users were attacked, but that doesn't mean they should be. Like you know, can't we just all get along?

I stopped caring about this community a while ago. Not entirely, otherwise I wouldn't be here.
There is a lot of stupidity, I know this because I have to deal with it, but every now and then you have to ingore it, or simply don't care about it.

We've had our problems, we've also have seen some wonderfull things. When things look bad, take a step back, take a deep breath, go do something else. And when things brighten up, come back and have fun.

Always look on the bright side of these forums, even when it seems pitch black..

utterly typing around without using real arguments,

-JAF.



[Edited on 02.21.2008 11:08 AM PST]

  • 02.21.2008 11:05 AM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Mourne not your comrades who must dwell / too strong to strive -
Within each steel-bound coffin of a cell, / Buried alive;
But rather mourne the apathetic throng / The cowed, and the meek -
Who see the world’s great anguish and its wrong / And dare not speak.

[group]167741|Diner|Where's the food?[/group]

What the hell are you going on about, shai? The only argument I see is "know why these members attacked those members". Who cares? They're being pricks, they deserve to be banned. Why is that not the end of the story?

  • 02.21.2008 11:06 AM PDT

yoo•zel- ('yoo-zhul): slang: vb.

Officium quod Fidelitas.

I understand that this is childish behavior and that real community members could at least tolerate each other in some civil means regardless of what their backing party agrees upon as collective opinion.

Please... lay it straight out for me. Because I see nothing but petty arguments, people trying to kiss ass, and a little to much ego.

I don't like problems to keep circulating, but how do you propose we solve this? Peace, love and understanding? Because it obviously doesn't work and neither does "Play nice" apparently we've all forgotten grade school lessons...

Posted by: Shai Hulud
Granted, Yoozel, but I'm not being so harsh or so radical. I'm merely suggesting that instead of just locking threads and turning your backs on potential reoccuring problems (which this is, since it's definitely happened before), try to understand why these events occur. If you do understand it, then show me that you do. Evilcam has not shown me that he knows what's going on (in fact, he stated specifically that he doesn't understand it. I merely called him out on that).

This happens in all real-world wars. No one bothers to understand why one side is doing what they do, and thus the war only continues. Sometimes it even escalates. Do you want things like this to continue? Splinter factions of the Bungie.net community lashing out at each other? I don't think anyone wants that. Only in understanding both sides of the problem can we learn to shake each other's hands and be done with it.

  • 02.21.2008 11:07 AM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

You are clearly at a lack of understanding, Zag. The roadmap is laid out in front of you, yet you keep getting lost.

Are you blinded by your association of me with those that did the attacking? I was not involved. I did break the rules that day, yes. I called out Elmicker in order to get his attention and confront him, which I am doing so now via PM (happy?). I can admit to my faults, Zag. I should not have posted that spam, but it did get me what I wanted, ultimately. The post itself was a result of me not thinking clearly (<gasp> Shai doesn't always think clearly?). I called him out, yes, but I did do no such public flaming, attacking, or anything of the like that you wish to pin on me.

I can see now that you're actually trying to disagree with me. Everything you said in your last post is exactly what I have already stated, but you twist things up to make it look like I'm trying to make the bad guys look like the good guys. Did I just say that the attackers were the bad guys? Yes I did!

That's where you're not getting me, Zag! I do sympathize with those that were victimized. You think I just said previously that the attackers who got banned were the victims? You think I'm that stupid? Can't you read?

The only reason why I said (which is a minor thing and not the focus of this argument) that the attackers should not have necessarily (see that word?) been banned is because it doesn't potentially solve anything in the long run. That's right. It doesn't. It can just surface again and again after a given amount of time. If you wish for these things to stop, the attackers should, honestly, be confronted. People should try to reason with them on different terms (and no, the terms of the forums obviously aren't going to cut it).

I have done no such thing to hurt your friends, Zag. Take a step back and look at things as they are, not as you want them to be.

  • 02.21.2008 11:14 AM PDT
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Talk to the Soul | ~B.B. | Know Your Duardo |  | Hero | ISFJ | 77135 | 94371

"It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me."

I think we need a support group...

WHERE WE HUG AND CRY! TOGETHER!

  • 02.21.2008 11:15 AM PDT
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Start it! ^^

Goddamn can't we all just get along?

We need someone who is twice as bad as Shishka, then you ppl wouldn't even breathe on these forums anymore and they'd be awesome.

MLG discussion needs to end.
Anti - MLG needs to end.
Ellites vs spartans crap needs to end.
Optimatch "tag teams" need to end.
Rate above users x needs to end.
R armor threads need to end.
a million more I don't feel like listing............

  • 02.21.2008 11:28 AM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

Posted by: aku
What the hell are you going on about, shai? The only argument I see is "know why these members attacked those members". Who cares? They're being pricks, they deserve to be banned. Why is that not the end of the story?


There is more to it than prickery. I asked a simple task. I think the general conception of them being "pricks" is only perpetuating things. It's not going to be the end of the story because it'll happen again. I think a lot of you know that it's going to happen again. If you think that there's no way to stop it, then shouldn't you (general, pointed towards active members of the Septagon) be accepting it as an inevitability and working towards not letting that kind of crap effect you? How come it caused such a ruckus this time around? That's a problem. If it were as simple as banning the arseholes and being done with it, then there shouldn't be any public outcry. There would have been no response to the nonconstructive criticism given unto those on the defensive side. We'd all be happy that they're banned.

But no, it got to you. You let it get to you because you don't understand why these things happen. They happened for the reasons that I gave you in my original post, and more which I don't know. How can I so soon? I don't catch everything, as I am human.

I'm merely trying to point out this problem to you. Some of you seem to not want to deal with it, but what will you think when it happens again?

Another thing that I'll point out is who these attackers were. Let's use the examples Reiginko and Impurity. These two, who were, yes, outwardly attacking active members and, yes, wrong to do so, are pretty old members. Not only that, they were both former Moderators, people who honestly know the community much better than a lot of people here. I wouldn't think that people such as these two would go out and attack a member merely because they got their jollies off doing so. I really do doubt that. They broke the rules, yes, and normally I would say that constitutes a banning. But these are not normal circumstances. They were not normal users on this site. The wrong things they did were the results of them letting their emotions come out too quickly. Why did they have those emotions in the first place? That's what I think we should strive to understand. And I do think it's possible.

  • 02.21.2008 11:33 AM PDT
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Not to be offensive, but I really don't give a damn why anybody did anything wrong, they are still wrong. Attacking other users is flat out unacceptable no matter who it is.

I've seen almost 10 legandary/mythic people getting banned this week. That right there alone shows it doesn't matter about your titile and the rules.

Anyone who says attackers shouldn't be banned is an idiot. Also blacklisting is what is given to them to try and teach them a lesson. We'll have to see what happens when they come back. If they resume there SPAM and attacks, well they'll just be gone for another vacation.


-XtrEmE, bring another shishka back.

[Edited on 02.21.2008 11:45 AM PST]

  • 02.21.2008 11:44 AM PDT