Bungie.net Community
This topic has moved here: Subject: Everything's Always Negative :(
  • Subject: Everything's Always Negative :(
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2
Subject: Everything's Always Negative :(

Totally agree with foman and sonic. Except maybe there is some kind of futuristic internetz gizmo they can use to stop people with same IPs rating each other. That could cut down on some of the manipulation.

  • 02.24.2008 9:55 PM PDT

I believe the community could handle it, especially if the proper metrics are put in place. It wouldn't be a simple system, but would work a lot like the report button.

My Proposed System

Metrics Kept Track of:
Click Frequency of report & cowbell buttons over the last 48 hours (Freq)
Ratio of Report to Cowbell clicks (ratio)
Peer Trust rating(trust)

Layman's Explanation
- The more frequently it is used, the less it means (freq)
- A direct correlation between member trust rating and the value of a click
- If a user uses it more than once on the same post in the same thread, the value of each click would lower (trust)
- If a user gives a plus on a thread which later becomes locked w/ the op being banned, all users in the thread trust lessens (trust)
- Every time it is clicked, the poster's trust increases, however, with a ban the trust is reset (or severely diminished) (trust)
-If the thread is deleted then all posters in the thread have their trust lowered (trust)
-When a thread is reported, a user's trust lowers (trust)
-User's Trust begins at zero
-Participating in groups adds to the user's raiting
-Being a mod (or having elevated permissions in a group w/ more than 20 users increases your rating

Math / pseudo code:
((1 / CurrentUser.Freq) * CurrentUser.Trust ) / TotalPossibleTrust = value

if(report)
Poster.Trust -= value

if(cowbell)
Poster.Trust += value

if(alreadyCowbell)
CurrentUser.Trust -= TotalPossibleTrust / 100

if(ban) { CurrentUser.Trust /= 10 }
if(threadDelete){ CurrentUser.Trust -= Ninja.Trust / TotalPossibleTrust }
if(threadLock){ CurrentUser.Trust -= Ninja.Trust / (TotalPossibleTrust * 3) }

Note: This math isn't perfect. It needs more tweaking but is a general idea. Also, things like multipliers and divisors would change bassed on the Total PossibleTrust

Edit: Added groups - Firebird347

[Edited on 02.25.2008 2:42 PM PST]

  • 02.24.2008 10:08 PM PDT

Whisper Game Studios - shhhh, it's a public secret.
Webcam MVP
Sarsion.net
Bnet PM Policy

[*Please note that anything in my posts is likely to be filled with sarcasm, and should be taken with a pinch of salt. I tend to help people, usually*]

To Firebird347 and nuclear Halo:

Both of your ideas work. A combination of them, could perhaps be sufficient enough to allow this system to work.

I do believe that this community is "mature" enough for it. It's a good tool to help avoid more spam, and it's much better for the community as a whole.

While I Save Threads for reasons such as I like them, they have useful information, or it contains me, or someone else saying something I thought was hilarious, I also used to Save them to keep a tab on a Spam thread, for Moderators. I now know saving spam is stupid due to the Report Button, so I no longer do it.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Both negative and positive ;)

  • 02.25.2008 8:28 AM PDT

Sandswept Studios Design Director

Visit us and check out our games at Sandswept.net!

~~Pardon Our Dust.~~

Posted by: x Foman123 x
Great Wall of Textia

I agree, Foman. A karma system is FAR too easily manipulated.

I'd say staying out of trouble is equivalent to getting rewarded or praised, since after all, the people who have been here and generally stayed out of trouble have shiny fancy titles and such. I mean, it's not much, but it's a pat on the back I suppose.

And Firebird, that is a nice equation there. >_> Heh.

[Edited on 02.25.2008 9:42 AM PST]

  • 02.25.2008 9:41 AM PDT

"Peace, gentlemen...
Peace is the ultimate goal of the Traxus Project.
Peace not in our time but in the future.
Future generations will benefit from the work begun here today.
Gentlemen, I give you the Traxus Project"

It would be nice.
Though still difficult to implement because of the afformentioned maturity level, it may be feaseable in the not-too-distant future, imo. I believe the bbs here have gotten a little less wild with time. And bans.
Lots and lots of bans I suspect.(sounds like fun to me)

  • 02.25.2008 10:16 AM PDT

Codeword is ... "codeword". Doh!
Also, now, Alliance FTW!

Relying on the Save Thread function as a "Voting with your mouse" function has a few issues that I see. One that John pointed out, which is that there are other Reasons for saving threads, some of which have nothing to do with thread quality or user quality. It should be called "Saved Threads That I Like" if that's the case. Common reasons to save threads (not exhaustive):

1. You are interested, want to keep tabs.
2. You posted - the OP was an idiot or a winner, want to check on response.
3. You need to reply, but don't have time.
4. It's hilarious, want to share it with others, don't have time right then.
5. It's really bad, need to do something about it...save it so you can deal later. Or gather enough as evidence that someone should report soomeone.

This is just a few - and as you can see, in some of these cases I would not want the user who wrote the post to be rewarded because I saved his thread. But I still want to save the thread.

The second issue is that the Saved Threads feature is only a "vote" for the OP, not for other posters. No way to give positive feedback about someone who never creates threads but often does praiseworthy comments.

The third issue - Saved Threads as a vote of quality is not discoverable. This is a design choice...but it's pretty clear from the way people didn't get it how you were using Save Threads until after (witness Recon's I Get It thread as well). This is a design philosophy question - should rewards systems be apparent or not? I can see both sides. But in that case, why is Report discoverable, and Praise not? That seems to weight things in the direction that John was concerned about in the first place.

Not sure what the right answer is, but I am going to use Saved Threads for everything and not reallly worry about the impact. If they get Heroic plus status as a result, not what I'd intend, but I don't have any other way to make a list of aliases. I suppose I could use the browser aliases function but that seems kind of bogus.

[Edited on 02.25.2008 2:19 PM PST]

  • 02.25.2008 2:18 PM PDT

Whisper Game Studios - shhhh, it's a public secret.
Webcam MVP
Sarsion.net
Bnet PM Policy

[*Please note that anything in my posts is likely to be filled with sarcasm, and should be taken with a pinch of salt. I tend to help people, usually*]

Posted by: MightyDuckK
Relying on the Save Thread function as a "Voting with your mouse" function has a few issues that I see. One that John pointed out, which is that there are other Reasons for saving threads, some of which have nothing to do with thread quality or user quality. It should be called "Saved Threads That I Like" if that's the case. Common reasons to save threads (not exhaustive):

1. You are interested, want to keep tabs.
2. You posted - the OP was an idiot or a winner, want to check on response.
3. You need to reply, but don't have time.
4. It's hilarious, want to share it with others, don't have time right then.
5. It's really bad, need to do something about it...save it so you can deal later. Or gather enough as evidence that someone should report soomeone.

This is just a few - and as you can see, in some of these cases I would not want the user who wrote the post to be rewarded because I saved his thread. But I still want to save the thread.

I figured it'd have made more sense just to keep the Saved Threads feature as a general tab-system. However, I can see exactly why the choice was made for "trust" ratings to be included for this as well.

The second issue is that the Saved Threads feature is only a "vote" for the OP, not for other posters. No way to give positive feedback about someone who never creates threads but often does praiseworthy comments.
That's a fair point. I rarely make threads. And if I do, it's generally to make a point about a system (a positive point usually), or to compile lists of evidence/easter eggs or such, or to start a new craze (of which 2 of about 7 my threads have done so far...one being the whole TUE shenanigans, the other, LASO). I'm more of a replier to be honest. I enjoy giving feedback to others, helping others find answers to question and...I'll admit, "police" the Forum.

The third issue - Saved Threads as a vote of quality is not discoverable. This is a design choice...but it's pretty clear from the way people didn't get it how you were using Save Threads until after (witness Recon's I Get It thread as well). This is a design philosophy question - should rewards systems be apparent or not? I can see both sides. But in that case, why is Report discoverable, and Praise not? That seems to weight things in the direction that John was concerned about in the first place.
We could, if the system can allow us, Save the Thread, and then be asked why we're saving this thread in the first place. That could help categorize the reasoning better and improve the system.

Not sure what the right answer is, but I am going to use Saved Threads for everything and not reallly worry about the impact. If they get Heroic plus status as a result, not what I'd intend, but I don't have any other way to make a list of aliases. I suppose I could use the browser aliases function but that seems kind of bogus.
There's no right answer really, just what works a bit better. I agree with you though; I shall continue to use all of B.net feature's in a way that I see fit. And if Spammers, somehow (although, I doubt it considering I believe that each Save may contribute small ammounts of Trust points) get a higher Member rating...not what I was intending.

As I think was poined out in a thread before by someone:

*We could have the Report button catergorize why we're reporting that particular post. This could help Moderators see the difference between high-alert spammers and simple, yet still annoying, "Recon Threads".
*We could then also, categorize why we want these people to have their Trust/Karma increased.
*Finally, we could again use the Saved Threads in this way.

Think XBL's Player Review. For each member, you're allowed to prefer them, or each post, only once if you so choose.

  • 02.26.2008 9:20 AM PDT

Whisper Game Studios - shhhh, it's a public secret.
Webcam MVP
Sarsion.net
Bnet PM Policy

[*Please note that anything in my posts is likely to be filled with sarcasm, and should be taken with a pinch of salt. I tend to help people, usually*]

Posted by: Recon Number 54
Posted by: SonicJohn
Everything's Always Negative :(

No.

Paradox?


The man's a genius. :O

*Keeps in mind for future*

  • 02.26.2008 9:57 AM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2