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Subject: MC's armor is worthless.
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  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Depleted Uranium rounds aren't "tipped", they're cored, a steel jacket around a depleted uranium core. It's to give them more mass and thus more power. (Power equals mass * velocity)

Still, if we're talking advancements why aren't we using caseless ammunition or electronic firing mechanisms instead of ancients firing pins and caps? Both of those exist today.

Still, that doesn't explain why Keyes can take as many hits as you can without your shields and he's not wearing armour. Your armour must really suck if it's no better then his jumpsuit.

  • 06.15.2004 10:00 PM PDT
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im guessing the reason keyes can take soooo many hits is because when he charges out in front of you like a madman while playing on legendary he doesnt instantly die

  • 06.15.2004 10:08 PM PDT
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There's much more to the armor suit than armor, and there's much more to the 'Chief than the armor suit. The 'Chief himself is supposedly not your average marine; he's a geneered, bred- and trained-for-combat supersoldier. The armor isn't just armor; in fact, the energy shields are so that armor isn't really needed. The armor is to increase the already nearly inhuman accuracy and reaction time by as much as possible, provide that recharging shield, and house a supercomputer for a super-sophisticated AI. The whole idea is that the increased reaction time means that the 'Chief never takes more damage at a time than the shields can handle. I would certainly prefer that over being weighted down with enough armor to take a few more bullets and being slow enough that I take a lot more bullets. Also, the AI contributes greatly to the 'Chief's effectiveness too. With the armor's wonderful comms gear, Cortana can intercept and decode enemy communications, hack into stuff to open a door to provide an escape, coordinate a whole campaign, or whatever other use you can think up for a supercomputer that can interface with anything covenant or human! Thick iron plate isn't the point of the Spartans' armor suits.

[Edited on 6/16/2004 12:11:35 AM]

  • 06.16.2004 12:09 AM PDT
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the armor isn't really designed to protect the chief, it's more designed to protect his equipment and electronic gadgets. It be kinda stupid when MC accidently spills some coffee over it and everything would short circuit. That's why he has a armor. it's a shell for his gadgets, the shield is there to protect the chief.

  • 06.16.2004 12:28 AM PDT
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Yeah, what's with the cased rounds? I guess Bungie just wanted to show off that they can make pretty brass things fly out...

The only reason I can think of for a cased round when caseless technology's easily available is for making a Copper extruder or something similar: you have a really strong, teardrop-shaped vessel with a small hole at the pointy end. The vessel's full of something explosive, except for a big lump of Softish metal that gets squirted through the hole when it's fired. The energy released is a whole lot and the squirt of metal goes pretty strait for a great distance simply 'cause the insane inertia means that the atmosphere doesn't mess with its trajectory very much. If you really need more accuracy, I guess you could have the hole be rifled so the payload comes out spinning. There's no way that goes into the game, for balance purpose and because the 'Chief would be knocked on his ass by the recoil... It would kinda be to the S2AM what the M808B's main gun is to the M6D.

[Edited on 6/16/2004 12:41:10 AM]

  • 06.16.2004 12:39 AM PDT
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The armor isn't suppose to take heavy fire, but still can knick off a couple of MA5B rounds. the suits main priority is to enhance the person's reflexes, strength,agility, etc. So the Mjornir armor really does'nt do -blam!- in terms of protecting the flesh. For instance when Sam gets hit with that plasma blast in the side: melted armor, burnt skin, no chance at all. Of course when the technology of energy shields from the Covenant is found, it becomes a whole different case. So use those super human abilities, and not (if its possible.)

[Edited on 6/16/2004 1:02:21 AM]

  • 06.16.2004 12:57 AM PDT
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As far as that anti-bear armor mentioned as being shown on the Discovery channel, that works in a completely different way then most body armor used today. You can shoot through that stuff with probably any sort of modern infantry weapon because it's designed to simply resist the edge of a bear's claws and then cushion the impact of the blow. It's not even REMOTELY comparable to one of the newesr types of body armor in use by the modern US military, which consists of some mix of boron fiber plates and other materials and can resist AK-47 rounds. The impact will still knock a soldier flat, but he'll be basically unharmed and totally combat effective. Even with this stuff, a soldier is still very vulnerable to shots to the face and head (obviously). The assumption that because the game takes place some 500 years in the future in no way means that the technology for "perfect" armor would exist. Although the armor would realistically be able to deflect most small arms fire, for the purposes of the game it just wouldn't be fun (and really, who wants that?). As far as Covenant energy weapons go, even an armor capable of taking enormous amounts of punishment from projectile rounds would be vulnerable to the inability of said armor to effectively discharge the large amounts of heat that would be caused by being hit with plasma (which is pretty dang close to being pure energy) blasts. As far as headshots with the Halo pistol being a one-hit kill without shields, this is perfectly plausible The round used in the pistol is a high-explosive round, which means it doesn't simply do damage through sheer kinetic force. Instead, it makes up for what would realistically be relatively little hitting power (handguns are limited in power do the simple fact of their size) by exploding on impact. No matter how advanced a material may become, sufficient energy focused on a single point will always be able to breach that material. I think that the material used in the MC's armor would probably be able to withstand a headshot from a modern pistol, 500 years of weapons advancement would also provide greater killpower for smaller weapons. Also there is those traits of MC's armor which several people have already mentioned, such as enhanceed strength, reflexes, and a self-contained atmosphere. These alone would make any soldier vastly more effective in any combat situation, so even IF the defensive capability of the MC's armor was as worthless as part of this thread suggests, the abilities provided by the armor make it invaluable.

  • 06.16.2004 1:16 AM PDT
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Hey, at least in multiplayer you can turn up MC's health. Then you can take at least one sniper shot to the head lol

  • 06.16.2004 1:17 AM PDT
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I have to agree with the original post by -blam!-yov. It's true that the MJOLNIR armour has a lot of perks aside from protection, but, according to available HALO fluff (the novels), it's also pretty damn resilient. So, "realistically" (in terms of the HALO-world) it would probably take a *lot* of bullets to bring the MC down. Think of Robocop, Terminator, or other similarly metal-encased beings, and the way they shrug off direct hits from handguns and rifles. The MC may or may not have as potent protection as these other guys do, but it stands to reason that he should be able to withstand a whole lot more in the way of pistol or rifle rounds with his shields down.

My guess is that this "realistic armour" wasn't implemented in order to get a more balanced game. Personally though, I would rather have a tougher Master Chief and significantly less health-packs around in the single-player campaign. It gives a more realistic feeling in terms of protection from the MJOLNIR armour, as well as letting you feel you're getting by because you are a powerful character rather than because you happen to be lucky enough to have multiple medpacks scattered throughout every area you happen to visit. HALO's recharging shield-system was a stroke of genius and a brilliant way to reduce dependancy on various forms of health packs that tend to exist in each and every FPS - I would like to see this taken even further in HALO2, though. Make the MC tough as hell, and remove most of the medpacks.

Multiplayer is a separate issue here I suppose, since it might get a bit boring if you have to fire at a player (while lagging) for two minutes before he goes down.

Anyway, it can also be said that in the novels, an armoured Spartan is also capable of leaping three metres straight up with ease, punching through solid concrete, seeing in the dark, and sprinting at speeds of 55 km/h (roughly 34 mph) and up. As you may have noticed, the MC can't do any of these things in-game, just like his armour can't withstand as much punishment as you may think it should. Then again, the novels came after the game, so the extent of the MC's abilities may not have been that detailed when HALO shipped. With the astounding fanbase and amount of background information existing today though, some of this will hopefully be addressed in HALO2.

  • 06.16.2004 1:40 AM PDT
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"Make the MC tough as hell, and remove most of the medpacks."

Hell yes, I think this could very well be implemented, and I hope it is.
Also, I would love to be able to punch down walls (there's destructable
envinronments so lets hope), nightvision (it only makes sense, I mean
a little crappy flashlight that can't even stay on? In the future!?), and
sprinting.

Also, thanks to everyone who dropped info and to Draerden for knowing exactly what I'm talking about.

*Edit. Forgot a word, haha.

[Edited on 6/16/2004 2:01:01 AM]

  • 06.16.2004 1:59 AM PDT
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dude even when theshield is gone you still have 5 hits or so. you have enuf time to go find a place to hide and recharge. so actually its pretty hard for him to die so goddamn easily. considering i havent died yet in halo.

  • 06.16.2004 4:28 AM PDT
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That's only in MP.

  • 06.16.2004 4:50 AM PDT
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you are right in many ways but (with the exception of keyes so he doesn't die instantly on legendary) MC can still take more shots without shields than a standard marine (don't know about ODST's) so its still better and thus better than the standard issue stuff.

  • 06.16.2004 4:54 AM PDT
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I think the one hit thing is that its easier to kill you in MP than SP.And the todays Mark 7 combat suit is TOO heavy for a normal person.And you need alot of training to use it i think.At last the MC's armor isn't useless its realistic and if you been hit twice on your suit without energy shield,of course it will be weaker and afterall the armor who keep the energy shield functional will maybe weaker to or it wouldn operate functional.

[Edited on 6/16/2004 5:00:22 AM]

  • 06.16.2004 4:56 AM PDT
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Its all game balance. How it is now is great, its not too hard, and its not too difficult you cant get anywhere. You can advance nicely. If like those in here wanting the MC to be in god mode constantly got there way we wouldnt have a point in playing the game. It would be a walk in the park, they would destroy the feel and the challenge. The armour isnt as strong as the MJOLNIR in the books, but its also not as week as it. When 1 plasma round off a rifle hit it without the shields it melted right through it, the bit where I think it was James was left behind as he couldnt make it back through space with the melted armour. But its not, ours in some respects is stronger. Its about game balance, making it harder in some areas, and easier in others. How it is now is perfect.

  • 06.16.2004 4:57 AM PDT
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the armour you are reffering to is the mark IV, the armour from the game is when they get the 'new' mark V on reach shortly before its fall. the mark IV was quite weak to plasma, but the mark V was the first to use shields to resist it.

  • 06.16.2004 5:01 AM PDT

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