Halo 2 Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Dual Wielding Recoil
  • Subject: Dual Wielding Recoil
Subject: Dual Wielding Recoil
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Like all Halo lovers, I am very interested in the perfection of Halo 2. However, as I am not on Bungie's payroll, I cannot directly affect features of the game. Yet there is one thing on my mind that annoys me to no end and has driven me enough to register on this forum and proclaim my opinion. Hopefully most readers of this post agree with me when I say that I do not want to see the reticule recoil when firing both dual-wielded weapons.

As attested by Teddman whom has played Halo 2 at E3 2004, "You CAN dual wield a Sub Machine Gun with an Alien Plasma Rifle, but your aim goes to hell and back for both."

http://opa-ages.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10241

The recoil is slightly noticeable in the video Halo2_needler_machinegun.AVI on the same webpage, as well as in the Halo 2 E3 2004 demo when Joe Staten uses the SMG and needler simultaneously to kill the elite. If you observe closely, the reticule moves upwards as both weapons are fired at the same time. There is apparently no recoil when one weapon is fired at a time.

Other games have implemented recoil to add "realism" to gameplay. Halo is hardly in the same league as other games, nor should Bungie use this cheap tactic to add realism or balance. Now, I'm not sure, but I believe Bungie added recoil to dual-wielded weapons only to add balance to the game. Perhaps they wanted to be fair to other players whom aren't holding a bullet hose in one hand and a shield-melting plasma rifle in the other. All I know is that whenever I play Halo I am always extremely grateful that there is no recoil on the weapons. It means that I can pull the trigger of my pistol twelve times in a row and every single shot will be accurate AND precise. I am glad that each and every one of my bullets go where I am aiming them and that I have full control over my aim. There is no need for this recoil because dual-wielding is already balanced by two simple facts: 1) Other players can dual-wield and 2) players not dual-wielding have the ability to throw grenades. If you really wanted to balance dual-wielders with opponents whom only have one weapon, then give those one-weapon guys the ability to throw a grenade while simultaneously firing their weapon. Why shouldn't a Spartan be able to shoot an SMG with his right hand while throwing a grenade with his left?

Bungie is in the business of making games. By definition, games should be fun. Recoil is not fun, it is annoying and frustrating.

If you agree or disagree with me please voice your opinion. I can only hope that Bungie hears my plea and puts it into consideration. Eitherway, I am sure Halo 2 will be the single greatest video game on Earth when it is released and that I will play it for thousands of hours, but if there is no recoil, it will be that much closer to perfection. In the end though, I am only a lowly gameplayer, not a game-maker.

  • 06.15.2004 5:47 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

yes i do agree, reciol is realistic, but i dont want it in halo 2

  • 06.15.2004 5:51 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

[color=gold] first off, 1. i watched the video and i did not notice recoil he just moved toward the eleit. 2. when you hold the triger down with the pistol it is less accurate then pulling the triger for single shots. and i do like your idea of throwing a grenade while shooting with a one handed weapon only tho.
i do not want recoil in the game and i doubt it will be in there, if it is i guarentee the path of the bullets will change not the reticle [/color]

[Edited on 6/15/2004 5:56:04 PM]

  • 06.15.2004 5:53 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I agree.
And trust me,there will be recoil in Halo 2 for balance.

[Edited on 6/15/2004 5:58:31 PM]

  • 06.15.2004 5:55 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Authority
Like all Halo lovers, I am very interested in the perfection of Halo 2. However, as I am not on Bungie's payroll, I cannot directly affect features of the game. Yet there is one thing on my mind that annoys me to no end and has driven me enough to register on this forum and proclaim my opinion. Hopefully most readers of this post agree with me when I say that I do not want to see the reticule recoil when firing both dual-wielded weapons.

As attested by Teddman whom has played Halo 2 at E3 2004, "You CAN dual wield a Sub Machine Gun with an Alien Plasma Rifle, but your aim goes to hell and back for both."

http://opa-ages.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10241

The recoil is slightly noticeable in the video Halo2_needler_machinegun.AVI on the same webpage, as well as in the Halo 2 E3 2004 demo when Joe Staten uses the SMG and needler simultaneously to kill the elite. If you observe closely, the reticule moves upwards as both weapons are fired at the same time. There is apparently no recoil when one weapon is fired at a time.

Other games have implemented recoil to add "realism" to gameplay. Halo is hardly in the same league as other games, nor should Bungie use this cheap tactic to add realism or balance. Now, I'm not sure, but I believe Bungie added recoil to dual-wielded weapons only to add balance to the game. Perhaps they wanted to be fair to other players whom aren't holding a bullet hose in one hand and a shield-melting plasma rifle in the other. All I know is that whenever I play Halo I am always extremely grateful that there is no recoil on the weapons. It means that I can pull the trigger of my pistol twelve times in a row and every single shot will be accurate AND precise. I am glad that each and every one of my bullets go where I am aiming them and that I have full control over my aim. There is no need for this recoil because dual-wielding is already balanced by two simple facts: 1) Other players can dual-wield and 2) players not dual-wielding have the ability to throw grenades. If you really wanted to balance dual-wielders with opponents whom only have one weapon, then give those one-weapon guys the ability to throw a grenade while simultaneously firing their weapon. Why shouldn't a Spartan be able to shoot an SMG with his right hand while throwing a grenade with his left?

Bungie is in the business of making games. By definition, games should be fun. Recoil is not fun, it is annoying and frustrating.

If you agree or disagree with me please voice your opinion. I can only hope that Bungie hears my plea and puts it into consideration. Eitherway, I am sure Halo 2 will be the single greatest video game on Earth when it is released and that I will play it for thousands of hours, but if there is no recoil, it will be that much closer to perfection. In the end though, I am only a lowly gameplayer, not a game-maker.


The pistol with 12 shots in a row part:

If youve ever shot a wall in boredom with automatic pistol fire,

You notice that the reticle doesnt move or anything but ive seen the sparks on the wall from about medium range, and the shots are 1/3 of the time way out of the reticles(this also works with bullet holes on the wall). Same thing with the AR, the bullets dont stay in the reticle. Games like Call of DUTY have the reticle get bigger as you move and get smaller when crouching or lying down. So with duel wielding and recoil, its essentially the same effect as the pitol or AR, just a little more obvious and in effect.


The out of the reticle effect happens with all weapons

[Edited on 6/15/2004 6:01:50 PM]

  • 06.15.2004 6:00 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Recoil was discussed during Halo (1). Remember, Master Chief is a super strong cyborg capable of flipping tanks. I think he can handle recoil pretty well.

  • 06.15.2004 6:00 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I think recoil is no big deal. Keep in mind theres 5 months and counting till it release, so remain optomistic about it, im sure it could go either way (included or excluded). ANd I believe recoil only applys with two weapons, so you can still shot off twelve rounds of the pistol with perfect-impossible accuracy-as long as your only useing one. Try it out, see if its noticable enough to bother you, if it does, don't dual wield.

  • 06.15.2004 6:03 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: HawkEye707
Recoil was discussed during Halo (1). Remember, Master Chief is a super strong cyborg capable of flipping tanks. I think he can handle recoil pretty well.


Not just handleing it, but keepin the weapon still+that recoil. The strongest man in the world world would probably still have trouble keeping a pencil perfectly still. If the gun points up then the recoil only pushes it up even more. Its more concentration than strentgh sometimes

  • 06.15.2004 6:03 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Mythic Member

January 30, 2004 (Warthog's Day)
The Master Chief emerged from his code. After seeing his dynamically lit realtime shadow, he went back for 9 more months of development.


Behold the power of the Originals, the Gods Axeone-Neurone.

I think the recoil is only for full auto (if you don't like it burst fire). It is giving you visual reference of how poor your aim is on full auto. With or without the visual recoil your accuracy would be the same.

  • 06.15.2004 6:04 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

yep recoil doesn't affect you when you fire controlled bursts while dual wielding. I like this idea it keeps (pardon me mods) the noobs from just picking up two SMGs and spraying and praying it adds balance and forces players to use skill while dual wielding

  • 06.15.2004 6:09 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Posted by: Shadow_WarriorX
yep recoil doesn't affect you when you fire controlled bursts while dual wielding. I like this idea it keeps (pardon me mods) the noobs from just picking up two SMGs and spraying and praying it adds balance and forces players to use skill while dual wielding


People should be firing in bursts with one handed weapons in the first place unless youre at like right behind/front of him

  • 06.15.2004 6:11 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Or giving covering fire.

  • 06.15.2004 6:17 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Just a side note: He could flip tanks because Bungie wanted it so that in case a player screwed up and actually flipped the tank on its back that they could repair their mistake. In actuality he could not flip a tank.

  • 06.15.2004 6:24 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Yeah, Master Chief is supposed to be a super biologically enhanced super-soldier with impenetrable bones that are stronger than steel, making him recoil from a gun is just friggin' retarded. Realism one of the leading causes of games being stupid and not likable. RANT!

  • 06.15.2004 7:45 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

I don't think they have dual wieling in this game. I'll have to double check.

  • 06.15.2004 7:46 PM PDT