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This topic has moved here: Subject: Thread Bumping and How it Can Help
  • Subject: Thread Bumping and How it Can Help
Subject: Thread Bumping and How it Can Help

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: evilcam
The report button can be abused. There have been actions taken to curb and punish abuse, but I won't go into those. I'm only bringing that up because you said it was completely safe from abuse. Its not. Plain and simple.

The only abuse is that of false reports, which is filtered out by moderator response and judgment of the situation. Hence no abuse. Maybe a side effect, but not really abuse. There are always pros and cons to every equation, it is the weighing of those that determines it's worthiness.

Posted by: evilcam
I'm against this idea. Forums are here for discussions. In order to discuss something, you need more content that bumps. Look at the file forums now. You'd be hard pressed to find any actual discussion. It seems to mostly be bumps and reaction to bumps. That's not a discussion, its stupid and pointless. Being that bumping is a needless attention seeking action, I don't see why we should tolerate it. Being that bumping does not usually generate pertinent discussion, I see it as only a retraction from what a forum is supposed to be.

We have more spam than I have ever seen without bumping. People calling each other idiots for posting previously posted questions, level wars and normal players vs. MLG player battles and flame wars. Bumping a topic is the least of your worries.

You say that discussion needs to take place more than bumping posts. But as it is, most discussion takes place over 10 to 20 of the same topic floating around page one to page five. As I said, a limit on bumping may help keep the number of bump posts to a minimum (one bump every 2-48 hours and only two bumps a topic). After that most members won't care, and if they do they will most likely be banned for spam.

The only replies I have gotten in the files forum is one flame for having a file with all caps in it and not the thread, and two nice image replies. Most of the time there isn't anything to discuss unless it is a gametype or map, and even then those discussions are held on forums outside of b.net where the files are merely linked to.

Posted by: evilcam
I think bumping causes more problems than it fixes. I don't see any real pros that we could get from allowing it. The only potential outcomes I see from allowing bumping is...well...more bumping and way less discussion. So, I'm against this idea.

There are always pros and cons, as I have said. Failing to see any pros at all means a lack of flexibility in your view of a situation. Not that I am accusing you of being inflexible, just that maybe you should open your mind and try to see this from a different point of view.

  • 03.10.2008 7:58 PM PDT
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Of course I tried to look at the situation and tried to see a pro. I couldn't.

You're saying bumps will reduce spam? I disagree. Everyone who makes a pointless topic which slips through the moderator's reigns will simply bump it later, as many of them do now. If they were allowed to do it, they'd do it even more. So, if people bumping pointless things now removes good topics from the front page, how could good topic remain on the front page if it were allowed? I honestly don't understand your logic here.

Your anecdotes in the files forums are VERY different from my own, and the general consensus. People bump because they want attention for their thread. They rarely bump because they have a good topic and they want it to continue to be discussed.

I think that "it works on other forums" is a very weak validation as well. This is not other forums, this is bungie.net. We know for a fact that custom avatars would be a problem. People being able to say whatever they want by creating a forged image and posting a screen shot is even more ample evidence. Perhaps you have not seen any, but I have. I've seen lots of things. From racist, to sexist to carnal, to "nude" banal nonsense. You name it, people have posted it. Just because other sites have a mature enough fan base to warrant privileges, that does not mean it would work here, nor does it mean that we should try it.

Your pros thus far have been a nice sounding string of platitudes which I believe would not happen here. Even if you modified it to work as a bump button, people would interpret that as advocating bumping in general, and it would just be worse. Again, I don't see any pragmatic pros. Only cons.

[Edited on 03.10.2008 8:12 PM PDT]

  • 03.10.2008 8:11 PM PDT

Formerly known as BASs13 and One Point Three

Sorry if this is just me, but bumping, in its essence, is selfish. It is one person saying "I my topic, whatever it is, is more important to all other discussion in this forum". That is why I can not justify bumping for any reason.

I also think that the non-use of the search button causes bumping. If you toss in a could of more advanced search capabilities and make a bright colored rectangle around it (I know it would be an eyesore), I think that the search button could be more useful.

  • 03.10.2008 8:15 PM PDT
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I agree. A better search would stem spam much more than allowing bumping would. Among your frequent causes g33k, I think that's the one you should be championing.

  • 03.10.2008 8:17 PM PDT
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I think the answer here is to raise awareness of the search button, curb spam by whatever means, constantly discourage bumping (if thats how the higher ups feal about bumping, so be it) and of course find some way to make people read the dang rules.

  • 03.10.2008 8:19 PM PDT

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Posted by: evilcam
I agree. A better search would stem spam much more than allowing bumping would. Among your frequent causes g33k, I think that's the one you should be championing.

Perhaps a pop up alert window that reminds you to make sure that the topic you are about to post could have already been posted? And with that, prompting the user to use the search button?
I see many threads that could have been avoided by using the search button.

  • 03.10.2008 8:19 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: evilcam
Of course I tried to look at the situation and tried to see a pro. I couldn't.

You're saying bumps will reduce spam? I disagree. Everyone who makes a pointless topic which slips through the moderator's reigns will simply bump it later, as many of them do now. If they were allowed to do it, they'd do it even more. So, if people bumping pointless things now removes good topics from the front page, how could good topic remain on the front page if it were allowed? I honestly don't understand your logic here.

The mind of a rule breaker is to break the rules. Why would he do more of something that is breaking the rules when it isn't breaking the rules anymore? I think making it OK kinda takes the thrill out of abusing it.

Based on this logic, we could remove the post button, since allowing people to post may allow spammers to spam, and less spam would result by not letting anyone post. That is the logic I am getting from you. I prefer a more positive outlook and less absolute and cowardly way of doing things.

Posted by: evilcam
Your anecdotes in the files forums are VERY different from my own, and the general consensus. People bump because they want attention for their thread. They rarely bump because they have a good topic and they want it to continue to be discussed.

I highly doubt that is the reason people bump. I usually bump threads that I feel deserve it, including my own which go unnoticed. I hate making duplicate topics, and therefore when I bump a topic I don't want to repost, I get banned for it.

Posted by: evilcam
I think that "it works on other forums" is a very weak validation as well. This is not other forums, this is bungie.net. We know for a fact that custom avatars would be a problem. People being able to say whatever they want by creating a forged image and posting a screen shot is even more ample evidence. Perhaps you have not seen any, but I have. I've seen lots of things. From racist, to sexist to carnal, to "nude" banal nonsense. You name it, people have posted it. Just because other sites have a mature enough fan base to warrant privileges, that does not mean it would work here, nor does it mean that we should try it.

I have plenty in my time on forums. I have been to forums with ten times as much spam attacks and immaturity that this forum has, and yet all of these features seem to go unabused on all of them save for a few rare occasions.

Maybe the reason it all works on these forums is merely becuase they have filtered all the bad eggs out due to them quickly showing up. Having alot to abuse makes it easy to bring those abusers into the open and get rid of them.

Neowin.net, a forum of 206,074 members has everything from custom avatars to signature images and post counts, and I have yet to see as much abuse as you claim WILL happen. Even if B.net has over 1mil members, only around 500,000 of them have posted, and maybe half that are even active on the main forums. That is barely more than Neowin.net, so my example works out.

  • 03.10.2008 8:25 PM PDT
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Posted by: cortana 5
Posted by: evilcam
I agree. A better search would stem spam much more than allowing bumping would. Among your frequent causes g33k, I think that's the one you should be championing.

Perhaps a pop up alert window that reminds you to make sure that the topic you are about to post could have already been posted? And with that, prompting the user to use the search button?
I see many threads that could have been avoided by using the search button.


Yeah, IMO allowing bumping just means users who feel that their threads are "Superior" to other peoples "lame" threads can just bump them up. That doesn't really make any sense at all (at least to me). The way the OP describes it, it seems great, but to many people would feel "My thread *!)ZIOMG HALO@#3 @()SUCKZORZ ZOMG" needs to be bumped up! Even though nobody replied! So basically, there would be more spam , which wouldn't be good.

But I think a "pop up alert" would be kind of annoying. Unfortunately, very few read the stickies, and there is no way to force that. I don't really know other ways to stop this problem, maybe a "repeat thread" button, but that could be abused.

  • 03.10.2008 8:26 PM PDT
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bumping = bad = 100% of time.

  • 03.10.2008 8:28 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: evilcam
I agree. A better search would stem spam much more than allowing bumping would. Among your frequent causes g33k, I think that's the one you should be championing.


The biggest problem with the search button is how it searches. It searches for anything and everything on the forums with what you typed, regardless of topic title or member name. This makes finding specific posts and topics impossible. Adding in features such as "by topic title" or "by poster" would really allow for more specific and successful searches.

  • 03.10.2008 8:30 PM PDT
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Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K

The mind of a rule breaker is to break the rules. Why would he do more of something that is breaking the rules when it isn't breaking the rules anymore? I think making it OK kinda takes the thrill out of abusing it.


I disagree again. They're not usually intentionally breaking the rules because its a thrill. They're breaking the rules because its a means to an end. They want their topic to be noticed, so they bump it. Most of them don't even seem to know they're breaking the rules. We might just be talking about tow different things here.

Based on this logic, we could remove the post button, since allowing people to post may allow spammers to spam, and less spam would result by not letting anyone post. That is the logic I am getting from you. I prefer a more positive outlook and less absolute and cowardly way of doing things.

Now that's just absurd. Why did you use a strawman which is obviously not even close to what I'm suggesting? I thought the point of using a strawman was to create and attack something which I might plausibly say. In my earlier post I said forums are here for discussions. How would disallowing people to post at all do that? This attempt at negating my point was totally not needed. Actually, its so inane that I probably won't be able to take anything you say to me seriously in the future. That's a shame, because I really do respect your opinion and ideas. I may disagree with them from a policy standpoint, but that's all. There really was no need for that.


I highly doubt that is the reason people bump. I usually bump threads that I feel deserve it, including my own which go unnoticed. I hate making duplicate topics, and therefore when I bump a topic I don't want to repost, I get banned for it.


Again, your anecdotes differ from my own. They also seem to differ from the general consensus. You kind of admitted to bumping because you thought it was needed. Clearly, if it had not been posted in in awhile, you might be one of the only users who think that. Despite how you sugar coat it, you're bumping because you think those threads deserve more attention. As I said, bumping is a subjective method of obtaining attention. That's a mildly destructive behavior on the forums, and I doubt we'll ever decide to simply tolerate it one day. Others might think that their useless thread about mold on oranges might be a worthy discussion, but simply because they think its useful topic, that does not make it useful to people at large.

Incidentally, I do know the usual motives behind people bumping their topics, because they PM me explaining why they did not deserve a warning or a ban because of it. From the horse's mouth, they usually want more attention for the thread. Nothing more.


I have plenty in my time on forums. I have been to forums with ten times as much spam attacks and immaturity that this forum has, and yet all of these features seem to go unabused on all of them save for a few rare occasions.

Maybe the reason it all works on these forums is merely becuase they have filtered all the bad eggs out due to them quickly showing up. Having alot to abuse makes it easy to bring those abusers into the open and get rid of them.

Neowin.net, a forum of 206,074 members has everything from custom avatars to signature images and post counts, and I have yet to see as much abuse as you claim WILL happen. Even if B.net has over 1mil members, only around 500,000 of them have posted, and maybe half that are even active on the main forums. That is barely more than Neowin.net, so my example works out.


Good for those forums, but as I said, THEY'RE NOT BUNGIE.NET. All we can do is agree to disagree there. I don't think those perks will work here, you do. That's as far as we can possibly take that portion of the discussion.

[Edited on 03.10.2008 8:54 PM PDT]

  • 03.10.2008 8:51 PM PDT
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Bumping in the forums is bad. But, what about the Files Forum? I know bumping is bad there, but take this example:

I have a map that I made. It's the only one I made...I published it 2 months ago, and no more comments. Can I bump it up?

See what I am saying? I wonder if people could legally bump in those situations...The mods can look at the response times and judge if it was a long enough "wait"...

  • 03.10.2008 9:00 PM PDT
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Ulzim 4 Geek, the only forums I have ever seen that allow bumping are forums which allow advertising. That basically means something like MMORPG forums, or something like that, where the purpose isn't necessarily discussion. I remember 7 years ago when I played online games that weren't neccesarily MMORPGs, they allowed forum bumping, because the forums were basically part of the game. If you wanted a question answered you could bump, and so on. The things is the purpose of the forums' wasn't discussion, it was basically to ask questions, to sell your items, and things like that.

  • 03.10.2008 9:02 PM PDT
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Posted by: A Deaf Boy
Bumping in the forums is bad. But, what about the Files Forum? I know bumping is bad there, but take this example:

I have a map that I made. It's the only one I made...I published it 2 months ago, and no more comments. Can I bump it up?

See what I am saying? I wonder if people could legally bump in those situations...The mods can look at the response times and judge if it was a long enough "wait"...


I'd say that idea is a bit more plausible. I'd prefer if there was some mechanism which would allow people to keep their files in the runnings without having to resort to blatant bumping. I've always liked the "if a file is downloaded, it can be bumped back up to the top of the queue" idea. It needs some work, but I would not be opposed to something like that.

However, I'm opposed to simply letting them bump. Again, I think that's disruptive behavior, and its totally not what forums are here to do for us.

  • 03.10.2008 9:03 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

What I don't get is how you can say my continuing the discussion or making available to be continued is destructive. Bumping a post doesn't halt discussion, but gives it another chance to be discussed. How can you not see that?

  • 03.10.2008 9:06 PM PDT
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Posted by: evilcam
I've always liked the "if a file is downloaded, it can be bumped back up to the top of the queue" idea.

That sounds like it would work. Downloading content is much more important than comments because it means people are using the content, not just talking about it...

Perhaps Bungie can make it so when someone clicks on "Download to Halo 3", it bumps it up like an invisible comment or something...

Edit: I see what the OP is saying in the above post, but what if no one responds still? Does it warrant another bump...Some people would just keep going on and on and on...It's a good idea on paper, but will be way abused...

[Edited on 03.10.2008 9:10 PM PDT]

  • 03.10.2008 9:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: evilcam
Posted by: A Deaf Boy
Bumping in the forums is bad. But, what about the Files Forum? I know bumping is bad there, but take this example:

I have a map that I made. It's the only one I made...I published it 2 months ago, and no more comments. Can I bump it up?

See what I am saying? I wonder if people could legally bump in those situations...The mods can look at the response times and judge if it was a long enough "wait"...


I'd say that idea is a bit more plausible. I'd prefer if there was some mechanism which would allow people to keep their files in the runnings without having to resort to blatant bumping. I've always liked the "if a file is downloaded, it can be bumped back up to the top of the queue" idea. It needs some work, but I would not be opposed to something like that.

However, I'm opposed to simply letting them bump. Again, I think that's disruptive behavior, and its totally not what forums are here to do for us.


I think each X360 has its own MAC address. Basically, each X360 would have "1 bump" IE, every time you download a file to an X360 MAC address, it bumps the thread. That may be too complicated, so 1 "bump" per "download" to "Xbox 360". It would show up in the thread as "(Insert Gamertag Here), downloaded map". This way, if you download, you don't feel bad because you didn't bump the thread up, because you didn't have any "comments" to add to the thread, basically. Maybe it could be tied to XBL Gold accounts or something like that? IE a download to a gold/silver account = a bump for a thread, but a reply doesn't? And if it showed up in the thread, nobody could "abuse it". Or the system could just NOT count subsequent downloads to the same X360/XBL Account.

  • 03.10.2008 9:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
What I don't get is how you can say my continuing the discussion or making available to be continued is destructive. Bumping a post doesn't halt discussion, but gives it another chance to be discussed. How can you not see that?


It got knocked off because the discussion was over and failed in some cases.




btw, Wheres the Party At?

  • 03.10.2008 9:11 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: xfire grunt
I think each X360 has its own MAC address. Basically, each X360 would have "1 bump" IE, every time you download a file to an X360 MAC address, it bumps the thread. That may be too complicated, so 1 "bump" per "download" to "Xbox 360". It would show up in the thread as "(Insert Gamertag Here), downloaded map". This way, if you download, you don't feel bad because you didn't bump the thread up, because you didn't have any "comments" to add to the thread, basically. Maybe it could be tied to XBL Gold accounts or something like that? IE a download to a gold/silver account = a bump for a thread, but a reply doesn't? And if it showed up in the thread, nobody could "abuse it". Or the system could just NOT count subsequent downloads to the same X360/XBL Account.


That might be over complicating things...

[Edited on 03.11.2008 1:26 AM PDT]

  • 03.11.2008 1:26 AM PDT
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It's simple to me, and this has no doubt been said. New threads don't even have a chance, because some jerk keeps bumping the same thread. That one user might think there is more to say, but obviously the community doesn't agree.

  • 03.11.2008 1:34 AM PDT

This entire post makes me remember good times past. Hey guys (that know me).

Really, bumping happens. Usually accidentally by people that don't know what they are doing.

AKA bumping Recon threads. Trolling, etc...

  • 03.11.2008 4:33 AM PDT
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By this line of thinking each forum should have a list of around 15 topics, and all said discussion should fall under these topics, and these topics only. No use for posting of new topics.

In Short Answer: No.

[Edited on 03.11.2008 8:18 AM PDT]

  • 03.11.2008 8:18 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: a rabid snail
We all see what you are pointing at here. The problem is that people do not bump to continue a discussion. They bump to have their threads get more attention, and in most cases, those threads are either worthless or spam. If you want to have a topic discussed and nobody discusses it, it does not deserve to be discusssed. If your topic actually has an interesting discussion it will get replies. Allowing people to bump a thread will just bring the useless threads back up to the front page, and farther worsen the problem you are trying to fix. The constant spam is enough for the moderators already. How can you not see that?

That is only if there are no limits to bumping. If people can only bump twice and after a certain time limit, then having threads constantly reappearing won't be a problem. They will come to the front once or twice and then never return. Is that not a better alternative than having 5 or 6 of the same topic created within two days merely because the first majority of topics vanished from the front page before they could be seen?

  • 03.11.2008 10:08 AM PDT