- UL7IM4 G33K
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- Senior Legendary Member
"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien
Posted by: Lucas_Snow
Posted by: Yuke
I don't see where this discussion is heading to. Bumping won't help anyone, the webmaster himself does not approve it, why discuss this?
Because this guy refuses to see any other side than his own. His excuse is: The post button is abused to. Yea, but Posting is necessary for forums, bumping is not. Why add to the chop? Sure some people could bump a relevant topic to the top, that no one saw, and this would be good. But this is one thread out of the 500 others, that will be posted, and bumped, and then it will all boil down to Bumping more to make sure you're thread stays on the page to be seen. As soon as you Bump so does everyone else, so essentially all this accomplishes is threads full of "Bump."
I'm sorry but you're being to kind in assuming only good topics will be bumped. As soon as it is allowed everyone will do it, to every thread. So the threads will still fall of the front page, just as fast, and we will have accomplished nothing but Bump Warring.
It isn't an excuse, it is an example. I am giving you a more extreme look at your argument. You are arguing that people will abuse it, but what about the people who wont? Do we just forget them, throw the ability to use something out the window just because a few people ruined it for them? Isn't that exactly what rule breakers want? To destroy all the rights and privileges of the people on this forum and make the experience here a hell on earth? Those bad members have already succeeded here. They destroyed individuality, sense of accomplishment and even most of the general forum rights you see in every other community on the internet. This place is locked tighter than Fort Knox and it is started to strangle its members.
Did you also forget the limits I explained? Bump wars would lead to getting topics locked. It is no different than spamming a topic to keep it at the top now, just that your first two bumps are free of consequence. Bumping, as I said, would be reserved for only a 12-24 hour period after posting or your first bump, meaning you would have to keep track of your thread as well as make sure you post after the time limit. This would keep threads bumped at different times, and allow new threads a 12 hour period to be seen and become popular discussion topics.
Posted by: evilcam
You say that bumping is only a problem because its not allowed here. You say that good discussion are frequently a result of bumping.
I disagree. Evidence that bumping is a problem, and that's its usually nothing more than an attention grabbing ploy. They bump because they want attention. They rarely bump because there is a decent discussion going on and they want to continue it. Your axiom is flawed, beyond repair. Though there may be a bump that's made to continue discussion, every once in awhile, but those are very rare. Your "evidence" which was link to your thread backs up my assertion. Was there a useful point to that thread? Yes, and thank you for making it and maintaining it. Was there a discussion worth preserving? No, the point of that thread was not to discuss anything, it was to post art. So, your argument that "some discussions are worth saving" is instantly nullified by your evidence. I agree that it was a good thread, but it does not at all prove your point. Did it need to be bumped? No. And there you have it.
It is not flawed beyond repair, the only problem is that good discussions never get bumped since they are posted by good members, who don't break the rule of no bumping. Your own rule is tainting your evidence. The only topics that receive bumps are those which are posted by new members who do not know the rules, or are bumped by people purposefully breaking the rules. On this forum there is no evidence other than for your side because of your own rules.
If you want a better example of "discussion" threads, some of them are the ARG threads that appeared in the Halo 3 forum. If they had not been stickied, do you think they would have stayed as orderly? I doubt the threads would have lasted more than 3 days if they weren't stickied.
Posted by: evilcam
You say that I'm ignorant because I think other forums behave differently than this one. Your analogies were totally off base and pointless in this context. Is another forum similar to this one because it has topics and posts? Yes, but that taking it to its baser nature. Are other forums replete with pointless stupidity and ego-building topics/posts? Yes they are, but rarely to the degree that this one receives. The only forums which have a similar level of stupidity are very different than Bungie.net, because the usually allow or encourage that kind of behavior. Case in point; 4chan. We don't want that crap here, but due to Halo's popularity, its here anyway. Here is where the primary difference comes in. We don't want that crap here. We don't want attention seeking stupidity (which if you can't see that attention seeking stupidity is the primary motive for bumping, please spend some time actually looking at these forums before you debate them), and advocating it would only make it worse.
4chan is a one of a kind hell hole. Most every other respectable forum which allows features has dealt with these things and not given up all the member rights you have here. A community on one forum is just as likely to go the way this one has. I think the reason this forum is so bad is because there are so many rules to break, and so little to make yourself stand out that people will break rules just to feel like they are an individual. Custom avatars and post counts, as well as signatures and images in those satisfy the need for individuality every forum member has. Post counts and member titles satisfy their need for accomplishment and progression, making them feel more like a part of the community and less like a newbie.
Posted by: evilcam
If topics are already falling off the first page in five minutes, how would advocating bumping fix that? If anything, it would just make it worse. Why, oh why, can't you see that?
I understand that much. What you think is that having topics being bumped will push newer topics off the front page. But what it does prevent is repeats and keeps discussion in the first topic to be made. Most new topics are generally repeats, so with less new topics being made, less people will have to bump and a nice little cycle will begin to keep the forum clean and tidy, and hopefully help with your database which is a mess of search results.
I am not saying that everyone can just bump regardless, since abuse is obvious and can be judged, just like abuse of mere ability to post can be judged on whether is it legitimate or just plain abuse. I am saying give this tool to the community so the people who do need it can use it.
But, it really isn't much a big deal to me. I am just enjoying this discussion. I love to debate, and to argue the hardest side of the argument just to better understand both point of view, and help myself find ways to win an uphill battle.